my wifes resentments are secrets/ going through hell

[uncool]

...was told there was many many more resentments she has towards me and that she felt I wasnt able to "listen" to them yet

 

She refuses to tell me exactly how she wants me to listen and that I listen the wrong way

 

Help me out ladies !!! what's my wife talking about here???

 

First of all thanks for all your responses so far

The majority of the responses want me to divorce her asap. Slow down there guys ... I'm not going there yet. I wan't to make sure I do all I can first including taking a look at myself to see if I'm at all to blame for my sexless relationship. So talk to me about the "listening" thing I quoted myself on above. How could I be missing the point my wife is trying to make about listening? It appears to be a major flaw I have. Ladies... what say you? Do your husbands know how to "listen" correctly or did my wife just make that up?

[starryeyed12]

I think everyone in this entire world could use a refresher course on how to listen. It is truly an art that needs constant maintenance.

 

If you are not ready to divorce and you are here asking for advice, that could indicate that inside you feel that you need to continue to do some soul searching of your own.

 

Let me clairfy--If divorce was part of your list of options right now, then that would indicate that after soul seaching and critically thinking about your role-- and also your wife's (which seems like the deeper focus of your thinking as of late)-- in this matter through and through, the results would keep coming back much too one-sided, and divorce would seem plausable to you. Your inner reluctance seems to indicate that there is more to your role in her resentment that you want consciously admit.

 

I agree that she is not handling her self well and is treating you like dirt. However, as I see it, unless she is completely bat-sh*t crazy, then you must have hurt her or neglected her in some way throughout the years (in her mind at least). There is absolutely no way any one of us here could speculate exactly what. You were there. You would have the best insight to your behaviors which could have spawned this. Since you are willing to take the abuse, somewhere in your mind it must seem justified. Try to look back at things with an open eye.

 

I agree that the comment made 13 years ago that she can't remember is not the sole cause of this. It may be the time she relates to the beginning of the slow build up of resentment.

 

Maybe her resentment comes from the fact that throughout your marriage you haven't romanced her enough, or let her speak her mind, or opened up your feelings about her enough, or fought for her, or share things with her, or showed your love with actions that women can interpret. Maybe because you got to persue your dream job while she had to sacrafice hers to take care of the kids. Maybe because you put your foot in your mouth and have said tactless things. Maybe from the fact that besides the marriage you seem very self-confident and happy with yourself, and she hates who she is inside. I'm making all this up, obviously. The list of possiblities could be endless.

 

Think about the disagreements you had or the little fights you've had through the years. What did they center around? Who "won" them? At what cost, in hindsight?

 

If you are not ready to divorce then I think it's up to you to start digging in deep and start looking for your contributions to the problem.

 

Can you list any flaws that you have?

 

Maybe when she says you aren't ready it is because you have yet to show her that you are able to be held accountable for your actions--good or bad. So she believes that telling you would be like talking to a wall.

[DaisyLeigh]

I didn't say to divorce her now. I said to see an attorney about protecting your rights and assets, just in case things go South.

[uncool]

Your inner reluctance seems to indicate that there is more to your role in her resentment that you want consciously admit.

 

*exactly... i'm trying to figure out what my role is in her resentment. At the moment my mind is blank and I just really suck at reading my wifes mind. I just need some clues

 

 

 

you must have hurt her or neglected her in some way throughout the years (in her mind at least). There is absolutely no way any one of us here could speculate exactly what. You were there.

 

*yes but unfortunately I have no clue either. It could be because I squeeze the toothpaste tube the wrong way... who knows?

 

 

 

You would have the best insight to your behaviors which could have spawned this. Since you are willing to take the abuse, somewhere in your mind it must seem justified.

 

*It would seem that way but no not exactly

 

 

 

It may be the time she relates to the beginning of the slow build up of resentment.

 

*exactly... I think you nailed it

 

 

 

Think about the disagreements you had or the little fights you've had through the years. What did they center around?

 

*lack of sex mostly Who "won" them? *she did

 

 

 

If you are not ready to divorce then I think it's up to you to start digging in deep and start looking for your contributions to the problem.

 

*Bingo... that's what i'm on a quest to try to figure out... my mind just keeps going nuts trying to figure out which flaw or flaws I have is offending my wife

 

 

 

Maybe when she says you aren't ready it is because you have yet to show her that you are able to be held accountable for your actions--good or bad. So she believes that telling you would be like talking to a wall.

 

*perhaps

 

this is the kind of female insight I'm looking for

thanks!

[pole_cat]

...I think she enjoys the fringe benefits I bring to the table...

 

I bolded that part. Sorry if that didn't show up for you.

[starryeyed12]

IDK, uncool. Things just aren't adding up right.

 

You and your wife obviously have no communication, and as a result know nothing about one anothers needs/desires/dreams/goals--the heart of a person. That means that neither of you have been taking the time to understand or get to know each other's nuances and language for many years now. Lack of sex in a marriage could have spawned from numerous variables, but I get the feeling that in this case it's been because you both stopped trying to be the man or woman that you both wanted/thought you were signing up for. You both gave up whenever it was that things got rocky and just half assed a fight to win each other back.

 

Years and years ago you could have laid down the law, said, "Hunny, it's couples counseling for us. I can't take this anymore, I want to feel close to you again."

 

Maybe you did make some weak attempt at this, but it obviously wasn't enough, and you both have allowed this behavior for years. I have to believe that any attempts were weak considering the fact of 13 years sexless. Unless you care to illuminate some on this, that just screams neglect.

 

You may be trying now, but that still doesn't make up for the other 13 years. Recovering that lost ground could take ages. How long are you willing to fight? How far will you go to get her into more couseling? Does your heart tell you it's worth it?

 

She is half to blame too. You may have started the rift in her mind, unbeknownst to you, but she let it play out by not communicating her feelings. Have you ever given her any reason to be uncomfortable opening up to you? Have you ever dismissed her feelings/wants/desires because you didn't understand them or care to try? Think, think, think. Go back to a time when you knew your wife-- what she really liked, what turned her on, what made her happy. If you can't think of this then you never should have married in the first place.

 

If you can remember back to a time when things were wonderful, then try to pinpoint when it started the downhill spiral, the year, the season, the age of your children whatever. When did the sex stop? The only clue is the time she mentioned at couples counseling. Look through old pictures from time in your lives and see if anything jogs your memory. What were your goals/dreams/interests/fears/flaws at that time? How could those things have affected your relationship to your wife? Did you start to become a work-a-holic? Did you lose interest in your marriage? Did you start an obsessive hobby of building little model airplanes in your basement that you toiled over for hours each night? Did you get into porn and she found your stash? Did you constantly fantasize about other women and she sensed your disinterest in her and her body? I mean come on, something happened.

 

One thing is for sure, you both have been cool with neglecting each other for many years. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here. That's a whole lotta bottled up pain/resentment. Start by acknowledging this to her.

[uncool]

You and your wife obviously have no communication, and as a result know nothing about one anothers needs/desires/dreams/goals--the heart of a person.

 

*Nope, I've been trying to communicate for years. Go ahead and look at some of my ancient posts from 2006. She knows very well what my needs are. She tells me she doesnt know what her needs are but I can guess her needs are: the help cleaning the house, watching TV and taking about 4 baths a day, and her husband not getting near her. These are the things that make her happy and I've been meeting all those needs. Whenever I ask her what her needs are or what she likes she just gets annoyed and doesnt answer me.

 

 

 

That means that neither of you have been taking the time to understand or get to know each other's nuances and language for many years now.

 

*this is not true... i've been busting my but for years to understand what it is that makes her happy.

 

 

 

Years and years ago you could have laid down the law, said, "Hunny, it's couples counseling for us. I can't take this anymore, I want to feel close to you again."

 

*I did and she declined and said no all those yrs ago. She's a very private person and thinks it's nobody's business but ours. In fact that's part of the so-called resentment she had towards me talking to my folks on the phone about us. This past year however she finally showed me a little nugget of hope by seeing 2 different counselors by herself. Nothing has improved though... she's only gotten more distant (probably because they're trying to take her mind into resentment she has for me and they just left her there in that state and she isn't seeing them anymore except for our church leader counselor guy who she see's about once every 2 months. But at least she went. That's one of the reasons I haven't left her yet.

 

 

I have to believe that any attempts were weak considering the fact of 13 years sexless. Unless you care to illuminate some on this, that just screams neglect.

 

*nope my attempts weren't weak. I'm suppose I'm just avoiding divorce like the plague. I fear being alone and I fear hurting my 4 awesome kids

 

 

 

You may be trying now, but that still doesn't make up for the other 13 years.

*nope I've been trying Recovering that lost ground could take ages. How long are you willing to fight? How far will you go to get her into more couseling? *i'd go as far as I could... I just have to convince her to go. She's seen more counseling this year than during our entire 17yrs of marriage Does your heart tell you it's worth it? *my heart has told me that if something doesnt happen in the next couple months that I'm leaving her because I think she isn't listening to their advice and blows them off. I don't think she likes what they tell her. She doesnt want to change.

 

Have you ever given her any reason to be uncomfortable opening up to you? *not that I'm aware of .. .but apparently I did somehow

Have you ever dismissed her feelings/wants/desires because you didn't understand them or care to try?

*nope not that I know of.. I'm not that type I'm a very mellow guy in real life.

 

 

Think, think, think. Go back to a time when you knew your wife-- what she really liked, what turned her on, what made her happy.

 

*when we were dating a year before we married she got really turned on and excited over almost anything I did and begged for me to come over to her apartment to see her. We'd go on hikes together, she was very sexual, we'd go out to dinner, we'd go on road trips & we'd enjoy doing things.... I thought this was what I was marrying. I haven't changed... I still like that stuff. She slowly stopped wanting anything to do w/those things over the years and now she doest want anything to to w/any of that now. I can't even get her to go out with me on a simple date w/me. I have to take my kids out on the dates now because she doesnt want to go w/me

 

 

Did you lose interest in your marriage?

*nope... only she did

 

 

I mean come on, something happened.

 

* i know you think something happened but honestly theres nothing I can think of

 

 

One thing is for sure, you both have been cool with neglecting each other for many years.

 

*untrue ... I would never on purpose neglect her needs. I just haveto know what they are because I think I've been meeting her needs for many many years now.

That's a whole lotta bottled up pain/resentment. Start by acknowledging this to her.

*i'm not trying to be ignorante but acknowleging what?

 

you should be a marriage counselor. thanks for trying to uncover stuff for me. Thats exactly what I need.

Edited May 1, 2011 by uncool

[xxoo]

So talk to me about the "listening" thing I quoted myself on above. How could I be missing the point my wife is trying to make about listening? It appears to be a major flaw I have. Ladies... what say you? Do your husbands know how to "listen" correctly or did my wife just make that up?

 

Didn't you find a letter she wrote about how she resented the way you reconnected with the brother that abused your daughter, or something like that?

 

I think this touches on the "listening" problem. I find it VERY difficult to believe that she never expressed how unhappy she was about that at the time, but it sounds like you had no idea about her feelings on the matter until finding the letter years later. What happened back then? Did she never seem upset about you reconnecting with that brother? Or did she seem upset, and you disregarded her feelings? Were there arguments? How did they play out?

 

I'm guessing that is the kind of thing she is talking about, and it is probably not limited to that one issue. The same pattern has probably played out dozens of times.

 

Frankly, I'm a little stunned that, with that one known issue in the background (the brother issue), all you can come up with as potential issues is "squeeze the toothpaste tube the wrong way". That sounds like you are assuming she is upset about "little things" that don't really matter. It makes me wonder if you equate the brother issue with the way you squeeze a toothpaste tube?

 

But, honestly, I believe it is hopeless. Whatever the issues were, her love is obviously long gone. She simply does not care anymore. It could be that she believed you didn't care about her, if she felt her strong feelings were being dismissed (as in the case with you and your family)--and then, in response, she finally stopped caring about you. But it is clear that she does NOT care about you anymore--although she probably does enjoy the "fringe benefits" of you living there.

[uncool]

Didn't you find a letter she wrote about how she resented the way you reconnected with the brother that abused your daughter, or something like that?

*yes there was a letter but no ...because I never reconnected with that brother. I still hate him and avoid him for what he did. She's now told me that the resentment is for something else. She's not resenting me for what he did. She doesn't think I support him .. .dont worry

 

I think this touches on the "listening" problem. I find it VERY difficult to believe that she never expressed how unhappy she was about that at the time, but it sounds like you had no idea about her feelings on the matter until finding the letter years later.

*um no of course she was unhappy at the time that incident occured but a couple years later she seemed over it and we'd still have sex and she could be around my side of the family and me etc... then about 8-9yrs later (which is now about a year ago she puts me in the freezer hard core and divorces herself from any of my relatives or friends. Wont attend funerals, marriages, thanksgiving, christmas etc.... She encourages me to go and take our kids but wants nothing to do with anybody I associate with or any events. Then I find that letter that tells me she has resentments for me and other people in my family but doesnt say exactly why. But I'm not trying to bring that old post up in this post because I don't think that even has anything to do with me not listening. Then we had the little meeting last month which divulged her resentment towards me for something completely different from my brother issue. That its some damn 13yr old phone call. Then a week ago she finally says "ok it wast just the phone call", that its a whole damn list of crap that she says I'm not ready to hear because I have a listening problem

 

What happened back then? Did she never seem upset about you reconnecting with that brother?

*um no I didnt reconnect and I don't have a relationship with him sorry.... and no she hasnt told me anything

 

Or did she seem upset, and you disregarded her feelings?

*no because I've never disregarded her feelings. That would be rude and inconsiderate and grounds for withholding intimacy. I only see the her upset all the time in which she refuses to tell me why. It could be about a hundred different things that she's upset about.

 

Were there arguments?

*nope, we dont really argue. She actually has to speak to me about her feelings in order to argue and that doesnt happen much. I'm the one who likes to talk and communicate while she's the opposite being quite tight lipped.

 

I'm guessing that is the kind of thing she is talking about, and it is probably not limited to that one issue. The same pattern has probably played out dozens of times. *if i could only see me taking part in this so called pattern. If I am to blame then I need help identifying it.

 

Frankly, I'm a little stunned that, with that one known issue in the background (the brother issue), all you can come up with as potential issues is "squeeze the toothpaste tube the wrong way". *yeah I'm stunned also

 

That sounds like you are assuming she is upset about "little things" that don't really matter. *what else do I have to go on?

 

It makes me wonder if you equate the brother issue with the way you squeeze a toothpaste tube?

*nope thats crazy. one is totally on a whole different level ... I get that. I would never relate them as being on the same level. I would actually be accountable for the toothpaste and it would be my fault. The incident involving my brother is indeed traumatic but has nothing to do with me being at fault. Even if I did reconnect with the abusive brother and become his friend (which I haven't)

 

It could be that she believed you didn't care about her, if she felt her strong feelings were being dismissed (as in the case with you and your family)--and then, in response, she finally stopped caring about you. *yeah who knows. See my problem is I start guessing what the problem is... and exhort all this energy and months of trying to reconcile w/her on the said problem only to find out that wasnt the problem or the issue. Thats why im on this forum.... trying to crack the nut.

thats good advice and I'll try to think back 13yrs ago & try & remember if I thought maybe I was dismissing her feelings or something. Thanks for helping me try to link part of this puzzle.

Edited May 1, 2011 by uncool

[PollyIvy]

The 'excuse' she gave you when you went to counseling at church was not real. It was just all she could come up with in a pinch. I bet she has no idea why she's so angry at you.

 

Like martini-mae said, I would guess that there is something wrong with her. Physical, emotional, mental.... her behavior is neither normal nor healthy.

 

She ought to get blood work done to check her hormonal levels, and a psychiatric evaluation. If she's willing, shell out for these. My H (wo treats me similarly) did the hormone check, but refuses the psych evaluation.

 

In the meantime, it sounds like a difficult, emotionally abusive situation. I understand why you've been putting up with it. 4 kids, right? Do you have daughters? They are learning how to treat their future boyfriends / husbands by watching how mom treats dad... :-(

[uncool]

ok so my wife refuses to actually talk with me (besides the one time last month where our church leader made her) So i just wrote her this letter and gave it to her yesterday.

 

"I'm giving this letter to you since you don't want to talk. I'm noticing your putting me back in the freezer again and not wanting much to do with me again which I guess means your holding on to some resentments again. I'm a very lonely guy & I'd like to know if we can move on with our relationship without digging up the past. Is this possible?

I had huge resentments from the past against you. I really did... but I've chosen to let them go because I love you, I forgive you and I know you're not perfect. Just as I'm far from perfect. I've choosen to forget them and not to let them bother me because it won't make our marraige strong if I do. And I want a strong marraige.

If I made a list of everything I don't like about you or everything you've done that offended me from one time or another ... I'd start to get upset while I was making that list and start to bring back negative feelings I had toward you.

It would put my mind in a place that's harmful to our marraige. What good would it do me if whenever I saw you I could only think of the times you hurt me and rejected me instead of the things you do that I enjoy?

So why bother? I've all but forgotten these things because I want to look forward to tomorrow with you. I want to laugh and have a good time with you and be close to you. I want to grow old with you. Soooooo.... I'm not going to dig this crap up... what good would it do? Can we move on and be the happy dating couple that we were years ago?. You'd call me up and beg me to come see you and I'd be so excited to drive over and see you. I want those feelings back between us. I want you to help me help you fall in love with me again. I need you to tell me how. Lets move on together from this point forward and forgive each other and not talk about the past. Lets go out on a date & reconnect. Invite me up to bed with you at night like you used to years ago. Lets finish remodeling those rooms in our house that you want done together! Let's sit on the porch & talk after the kids go to bed. Let's watch a movie together after the kids go to bed. You quit hidding in the bathtub & I'll quit hidding in my office & lets enjoy each others company. Lets have fun!

 

Only read the next paragraph if what I've said above can't be done:

 

If for some reason your mind is absolutely incapable of doing this because of some resentment you have... then why won't you tell me so I can appologize and repent for whatever I did so I can take care of it and move on? Why must it be a secret? Last night you said I didnt listen when we were at our counseling meeting at the church last month which is strange to me because I thought I heard what you said. Did I not listen? How do you know I didnt hear what you said? Is hearing the words that come out of your mouth and not interupting you while you're speaking not your definition of listening? Please tell me how you want me to listen. Because I don't know what you mean.

If I'm so undesireable and repulsive to you because of something I did... then you're going to be living with somebody thats undesireable and repulsive to you because you let me be that undesireable and repulsive husband. How would I know? Does that make sense?

Because I'm somebody who can change. I won't do this for everyone... just the people I love the most.... like my wife. I just have to know HOW you want me to change.

If I do something you don't like... tell me please! That way I won't do it again because I want to make you happy. That way you won't stick me in the freezer for years because of it.

I did a no-no and spoke to my parents about my marraige on the phone 13years ago and I've been paying the price of that mistake for the past 13years by you not letting me be your husband. I cant let something like that happen again. I can't & won't live like that again.

I apologized to you for this and told you I was sorry. And to help you see that I'm serious .. .I'm going to have a talk with my parents and tell them our marraige status is off limits to them and that I won't be talking to them about us ever again.

You see?... I'm changing for you! I just had to know how I was bothering you! Now what else do you have on your list that I can work on? Is this what you need in order for us to have a connection again? to make it so we're not just room mates?

I'm willing to compromise with you. I'll sit there and listen (the way you want me to ...if of course you tell me how) while you tell me what I've done to hurt you and I won't tell you what you've done to hurt me. All you have to do is tell me so I can fix it... Deal?

This way we're both making a sacrifice... I'm forgiving & letting go of stuff you did to hurt me and you tell me stuff you normally wouldn't feel comfortable telling me so I can remedy my mistakes... (since you can't just let stuff go like I can) Deal?

 

I want you to be happy. I want you to let me help you

I love you

 

your husband"

 

 

so I gave that letter to my wife yesterday and she didn't say anything the whole day. She just acted extra pissed off but yet asked me if she could fix me some dinner !(wow... what a shocker!... cool !) Then she went from her nice gesture back down to hard core stares and repulsive distancing. So I slept on the couch hoping things might blow over and to allow time for it to sink in. So this morning I asked her if my letter upset her and she angrily said "yes". Now i'm starting to get angry. So we'll see where this leads. I had to give her some sort of communication from me. I just had to. I'm not going to leave her all in one shot. I want there to be steps I take before I do that and this is one of them. This will be part of my personal evaluation process I use. The next step is to wait a weak or two to see what transpires. Then on the advice of my personal divorce busting marriage counselor that I talked to the other day... the next step will be to ask her to take a step so that I can see if she will do anything on her part to help our situation. (i.e.. like getting a physical or mental evaluation like some of you mentioned or by helping address the sexless issues) So by this summer I'll be enjoying passionate relationship w/my wife or I'll be starting to look at other women.

Edited May 1, 2011 by uncool

[xxoo]

Last night you said I didnt listen when we were at our counseling meeting at the church last month which is strange to me because I thought I heard what you said. Did I not listen? How do you know I didnt hear what you said? Is hearing the words that come out of your mouth and not interupting you while you're speaking not your definition of listening? Please tell me how you want me to listen. Because I don't know what you mean.

 

I think what she means is--you don't understand her point of view. You may sit quietly and hear her words, but you hear them through your own filter (we all do). So, while the words are heard, she does not feel understood.

[uncool]

I think what she means is--you don't understand her point of view. You may sit quietly and hear her words, but you hear them through your own filter (we all do). So, while the words are heard, she does not feel understood.

I think I understand her point of view perfectly fine. Everything she said made perfect sense to me and I didnt have a problem with what she was saying at all. after she got done telling me about her resentment I made sure she was done speaking before I spoke so I didn't interrupt her. I then empathized with her and apologized for my wrong doing and was very sincere. I think I got it. I really do. And if I didnt get it the way she wanted me to get it then all she needs to do is communicate to me how she wants me to get it.

Then a couple weeks later after very cold distant brutal behavior she tells me I didnt listen. This was the other night when she was in bed half way asleep (this is the only time I can sneak in a couple words that the kids arent around and when she won't leave the room when I talk) I asked her nicely to explain what she means and what she wants me to understand but she absolutely refuses because I'm supposedly not ready to listen yet. Now what? How would I make sure she feels understood?

Edited May 1, 2011 by uncool

[starryeyed12]

*um no of course she was unhappy at the time that incident occured but a couple years later she seemed over it and we'd still have sex and she could be around my side of the family and me etc... then about 8-9yrs later (which is now about a year ago she puts me in the freezer hard core and divorces herself from any of my relatives or friends. Wont attend funerals, marriages, thanksgiving, christmas etc.... She encourages me to go and take our kids but wants nothing to do with anybody I associate with or any events. Then I find that letter that tells me she has resentments for me and other people in my family but doesnt say exactly why. But I'm not trying to bring that old post up in this post because I don't think that even has anything to do with me not listening. Then we had the little meeting last month which divulged her resentment towards me for something completely different from my brother issue. That its some damn 13yr old phone call. Then a week ago she finally says "ok it wast just the phone call", that its a whole damn list of crap that she says I'm not ready to hear because I have a listening problem

 

Forgive me if I am just misunderstanding (tbh, I have not read your past), but this all seems very conflicting from the marriage you are portraying in your first post to this here.

 

 

but a couple years later she seemed over it and we'd still have sex and she could be around my side of the family and me etc... then about 8-9yrs later (which is now about a year ago she puts me in the freezer hard core and divorces herself from any of my relatives or friends.

 

^ This. So, you haven't been in the freezer for 13 years, sexless and in misery. That really began about 8 years ago. When did the abuse to your daughter occur? 13 years ago? Sexual or just physical? Wow. I mean...wow. That is heartbreakingly tragic and twisted. Yes, yes you do have to continue talking about that. It can never be silent. That's the stuff that can affect a person her entire life. And the mother--she's going to have issues for sure from this, especially being that it was your family member--someone who is your blood and inherently given your trust. If he had issues before that could have possibly indicated this type of behavior, she probably feels extreme guilt for leaving her daughter in a situation with this man. And if there were no indications that then that would probably make her extremely paranoid and untrusting. Actually, she's probably felt and could still feel both. I can't say I blame her.

 

This is it, the incident that the iciness stems from, I would bet. I mean there may have been some normal married life issues before, but this incident flipped the script to severely messed up. And when something severly messed up occurs in your life and isn't dealt with properly at the time and throughout the years, it will always be able to rear it's ugly head and anything could trigger it. That may explain why sometimes even the toothpaste on your toothbrush turns her bitter. The bitterness she has for your brother, she is taking out on you--because she is severely pissed/heartbroken/betrayed/resentful and that doesn't just disappear without a whole lot of help-years I would bet. And as I said, it is liable to rear it's head after lieing dormat for years--it's never cured, only in slight remission.

 

This explains why she gives up on life sometimes and just wants to lay in a bathtub 4 times a day and wallow in her bitterness. The more details you give about her, she sounds depressive--in and out of it perhaps. She is not having an affair. She probably doesn't have the energy or the motivation or the care for maybe men in general to do that. She's not a happy woman at all and if this happened to my child and I didn't seek help right away I would probably go through periods of denying my feelings to wallowing in them. I mean, depression can swallow you whole.

 

You have allowed her to act as you have maybe because of your own guilt. Maybe she resents you too for still having ties to your family at all. Not saying that you shouldn't, but that maybe she doesn't feel you should. I wouldn't believe her for a second when she says she's over this. That's denial talking. Did she get any kind of help after this? And your little girl? And yourself? How much? Doesn't seem like enough.

 

Btw, not to be mean, but I didn't like how you went about your letter all that much. It's very me, me, me centered. In her state she probably sums it up to a little something like this: Look how much I have forgiven you for being a cold hearted bitch to me, darling. Look at all the crap you did to me and how good I can forget it all ever occured. Sure, I did some things to upset you, but you won't tell me what, so I don't know what to do. Whatever I did ok, all I have to do is stop doing those things and then everything will be wonderful again. Yes, I'm willing to bury my feelings deep inside me to have superficial happiness. I'll swallow the jagged pill, you swallow it too. Now, get over it and love me, damn it.

 

I don't think you are going to be the one who is going to convince her to get help. Does she have a sister or best friend? Try talking to them.

[Downtown]

Uncool, an emotionally healthy wife does not get so upset over her H confiding in his parents that she freezes him out, waiting 13 years to tell him. As SadInTexas states, such behavior "doesn't ring true" for a healthy person. I therefore believe your W has strong traits of a personality disorder (PD). If I had to guess, what you most likely are seeing are strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW suffers from.

 

BPD could easily explain what happened 13 years ago because BPDers are filled with so much anger (carried from childhood) that it is easily triggered by an innocuous comment or minor action -- so minor that even they usually cannot remember what upset them weeks later, much less remember it 13 years later. Hence, it is highly unlikely she has a clue as to what really offended her at that time.

 

Moreover, a BPDer cannot tolerate ambiguities and gray areas. She therefore will classify everyone (including herself) as "all good" or "all bad." And, because her anger is easily triggered as I mention above, she can reclassify you from one extreme to the other in 10 seconds.

 

Because a BPDer cannot regulate her emotions, she often experiences intense feelings that seem so real to her that she considers them facts. And, because a BPDer is loath to admit a mistake, she will come up with the most convoluted, nonsensical rationales to try to justify her belief in the intense feeling. As PorkRinds said, such rationalizations are called "gaslighting" (named after the classic 1944 movie Gaslight). And, sadly, that intense feeling of anger usually has nothing whatsoever to do with you. Rather, it was created when she was 3 or 4 years old and then keeps resurfacing whenever triggered by her two great fears: engulfment and abandonment.

 

BPD also can easily explain why she cannot forgive you. A BPDer has such a fragile, unstable sense of who she is that "being a perpetual victim" is the closest thing to a stable self image she has. She therefore clings desperately to that self image -- being the perpetual victim -- holding on for dear life. Of course, one cannot forever be "a victim" without always having "a perpetrator" around. Your role, then, is to be the person on whom she projects all her bad thoughts, so she can believe they originate with you. If she is a BPDer, you've been the trash can in which she disposes all the bad thoughts and mistakes she is unwilling to take responsibility for. She therefore has little incentive to stop blaming you for her mistakes. This is why it is often said that a BPDer would rather "get even" than "get well." That is, they tend to be very vindictive.

 

Yet, if your W really does have strong BPD traits, you should be seeing more of them than you mention here. Moreover, you should have started seeing that pattern of BPD traits after about six months into your relationship -- not 13 years later -- because a BPDer usually can sustain the blissful conditions of the honeymoon for only six months. As StarryEyed observes, a person suffering a PD does not act normally for many years and then suddenly exhibit PD traits. I therefore suggest that you look at my description of what it is like to live with a BPDer woman. My posts are in Inigo's thread and they begin at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2826453#post2826453. If that discussion rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you here. If not, please ignore this post.

 

I caution that, even if you determine that your W has most of the nine BPD traits at a strong level, there apparently is one trait missing. According to your description, she does not throw temper tantrums and verbally abuse you once every two weeks, as is typical of most BPDers. I mention this because a small portion of BPDers (perhaps 20%) direct their anger inward, not outward. These BPDers -- called "quiet borderlines" -- usually "act in" instead of "acting out."

 

They nonetheless will do their best to punish you, just like the acting-out BPDers. They do this by freezing you out, sulking, blaming you for every misfortune, and being passive aggressive. Moreover, because the quiet BPDers are as unstable as the loud BPDers, they will occasionally flip to acting out with verbal abuse and rages. Predominantly, however, they will be cold and silent and give you killing looks with hateful eyes.

 

I mention all this because marriage counselors and ministers are not trained to identify BPD. Moreover, even psychologists often have difficulty spotting BPD when it is of the quiet type. Identification is made even more difficult by the fact that BPDers are excellent actors, which means they don't even break a sweat to do a 50 minute performance once a week in therapy. So, if you decide she likely has strong traits of that disorder, I would recommend that you confirm your judgment by speaking with a clinical psychologist by yourself. The therapist is far more likely to speak candidly about her behavior -- if your W is a BPDer -- if she is not there with you.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Downtown

[starryeyed12]

It's interesting how quickly everyone is to diagnose such a complex and relatively rare disorder such as BPD (I've read about 2% of the general population are diagnosed with it), or cry Affair after reading about a fraction of a situation....and a one sided view of it as well.

 

Maybe because it's the easiest answer to default to in complex situations that, in truth, we don't really know the half of.

 

But, what do I know....

 

Take into account the tragedy this family has endured. Whether he cares to admit it or not.

Edited May 1, 2011 by starryeyed12

[xxoo]

Uncool, an emotionally healthy wife does not get so upset over her H confiding in his parents that she freezes him out, waiting 13 years to tell him..

 

13 years ago is also the time frame of the abuse episode (his teen brother abusing the op's small child).

 

Was the phone call episode before or after the abuse was discovered? If it was after the abuse was discovered, then confiding with your parents about your marriage could be extremely damaging.

 

About understanding her point of view--obviously you don't. You may understand the one issue she shared, but not the current of emotion that issue represents. Also, if you think you can "resolve" a 13 yo issue by apologizing, you really don't understand.

 

I think one thing she is saying, but you are not hearing, is "I don't want to be closer to you." Have you asked her that directly?

[spice4life]

ok so my wife refuses to actually talk with me (besides the one time last month where our church leader made her) So i just wrote her this letter and gave it to her yesterday.

 

"I'm giving this letter to you since you don't want to talk. I'm noticing your putting me back in the freezer again and not wanting much to do with me again which I guess means your holding on to some resentments again. I'm a very lonely guy & I'd like to know if we can move on with our relationship without digging up the past. Is this possible?

I had huge resentments from the past against you. I really did... but I've chosen to let them go because I love you, I forgive you and I know you're not perfect. Just as I'm far from perfect. I've choosen to forget them and not to let them bother me because it won't make our marraige strong if I do. And I want a strong marraige.

If I made a list of everything I don't like about you or everything you've done that offended me from one time or another ... I'd start to get upset while I was making that list and start to bring back negative feelings I had toward you.

It would put my mind in a place that's harmful to our marraige. What good would it do me if whenever I saw you I could only think of the times you hurt me and rejected me instead of the things you do that I enjoy?

So why bother? I've all but forgotten these things because I want to look forward to tomorrow with you. I want to laugh and have a good time with you and be close to you. I want to grow old with you. Soooooo.... I'm not going to dig this crap up... what good would it do? Can we move on and be the happy dating couple that we were years ago?. You'd call me up and beg me to come see you and I'd be so excited to drive over and see you. I want those feelings back between us. I want you to help me help you fall in love with me again. I need you to tell me how. Lets move on together from this point forward and forgive each other and not talk about the past. Lets go out on a date & reconnect. Invite me up to bed with you at night like you used to years ago. Lets finish remodeling those rooms in our house that you want done together! Let's sit on the porch & talk after the kids go to bed. Let's watch a movie together after the kids go to bed. You quit hidding in the bathtub & I'll quit hidding in my office & lets enjoy each others company. Lets have fun!

 

Only read the next paragraph if what I've said above can't be done:

 

If for some reason your mind is absolutely incapable of doing this because of some resentment you have... then why won't you tell me so I can appologize and repent for whatever I did so I can take care of it and move on? Why must it be a secret? Last night you said I didnt listen when we were at our counseling meeting at the church last month which is strange to me because I thought I heard what you said. Did I not listen? How do you know I didnt hear what you said? Is hearing the words that come out of your mouth and not interupting you while you're speaking not your definition of listening? Please tell me how you want me to listen. Because I don't know what you mean.

If I'm so undesireable and repulsive to you because of something I did... then you're going to be living with somebody thats undesireable and repulsive to you because you let me be that undesireable and repulsive husband. How would I know? Does that make sense?

Because I'm somebody who can change. I won't do this for everyone... just the people I love the most.... like my wife. I just have to know HOW you want me to change.

If I do something you don't like... tell me please! That way I won't do it again because I want to make you happy. That way you won't stick me in the freezer for years because of it.

I did a no-no and spoke to my parents about my marraige on the phone 13years ago and I've been paying the price of that mistake for the past 13years by you not letting me be your husband. I cant let something like that happen again. I can't & won't live like that again.

I apologized to you for this and told you I was sorry. And to help you see that I'm serious .. .I'm going to have a talk with my parents and tell them our marraige status is off limits to them and that I won't be talking to them about us ever again.

You see?... I'm changing for you! I just had to know how I was bothering you! Now what else do you have on your list that I can work on? Is this what you need in order for us to have a connection again? to make it so we're not just room mates?

I'm willing to compromise with you. I'll sit there and listen (the way you want me to ...if of course you tell me how) while you tell me what I've done to hurt you and I won't tell you what you've done to hurt me. All you have to do is tell me so I can fix it... Deal?

This way we're both making a sacrifice... I'm forgiving & letting go of stuff you did to hurt me and you tell me stuff you normally wouldn't feel comfortable telling me so I can remedy my mistakes... (since you can't just let stuff go like I can) Deal?

 

I want you to be happy. I want you to let me help you

I love you

 

your husband"

 

 

so I gave that letter to my wife yesterday and she didn't say anything the whole day. She just acted extra pissed off but yet asked me if she could fix me some dinner !(wow... what a shocker!... cool !) Then she went from her nice gesture back down to hard core stares and repulsive distancing. So I slept on the couch hoping things might blow over and to allow time for it to sink in. So this morning I asked her if my letter upset her and she angrily said "yes". Now i'm starting to get angry. So we'll see where this leads. I had to give her some sort of communication from me. I just had to. I'm not going to leave her all in one shot. I want there to be steps I take before I do that and this is one of them. This will be part of my personal evaluation process I use. The next step is to wait a weak or two to see what transpires. Then on the advice of my personal divorce busting marriage counselor that I talked to the other day... the next step will be to ask her to take a step so that I can see if she will do anything on her part to help our situation. (i.e.. like getting a physical or mental evaluation like some of you mentioned or by helping address the sexless issues) So by this summer I'll be enjoying passionate relationship w/my wife or I'll be starting to look at other women.

 

Are you in counceling for yourself in addition the divorce busting councelor? If not, I highly suggest it. I am going to be honest here and say that I don't think this letter you wrote was helpful at all. It was filled with a bunch of "you this and you that" statements, which comes off accusatory. Not trying to sound harsh, just pointing out how it reads. Plus, there may be validity to what your wife is saying because you dispute everything other posters are telling or asking you here. I understand that it may be out of shear frustration with your marriage at this point, but it is still a communication dynamic that can cause someone to throw there arms up and say, "why bother?"

 

I am going to suggest something different. I think you should write a letter about how her treatment of you actually makes you feel using "I" statements instead. For example, write, "When I heard that my phone conversation with my parents 13 years ago upset you, I felt hurt, angry and confused that I wasn't told when it happened." Or, "shutting me out and not telling the reasons you are rensentful makes me feel hurt, abandoned and like you have no faith in me as a marital partner." Or, "Knowing that you are holding onto a looong list of resentments about me without telling me what they are makes me feel insecure about where I stand as a partner in our marriage and helpless in my abilities to resolve the issues."

 

I think that is what she needs to hear. She needs to hear from your heart how her actions are making you feel as a person, a husband and a father. That is what I would do in your shoes. I would write this type of letter and then let her sit with it and come to you once she has processed what you said. Don't try to initiate conversation, don't ask her if she read it (assume that she did), don't try to guess how she feels about it and let her come to you when she is ready to discuss it....even if it takes days or weeks. Just go about your business, doing the 180 until she initiates a conversation about it.

[starryeyed12]

13 years ago is also the time frame of the abuse episode (his teen brother abusing the op's small child).

 

Was the phone call episode before or after the abuse was discovered? If it was after the abuse was discovered, then confiding with your parents about your marriage could be extremely damaging.

 

About understanding her point of view--obviously you don't. You may understand the one issue she shared, but not the current of emotion that issue represents. Also, if you think you can "resolve" a 13 yo issue by apologizing, you really don't understand.

 

I think one thing she is saying, but you are not hearing, is "I don't want to be closer to you." Have you asked her that directly?

 

Oh God....a teen, no less?? That just complicates things another 10 fold.

 

It's hard to be anger and bitter toward a teen, they are still so young. But it doesn't make them innocent, nor the situation any easier to dismiss.

 

Think of those court cases where teens committ some horrible crime and the conflict of the judge to determine whether to try them as adults or not. I mean it's really hard.

 

She needs to talk to someone about this. You all do.

[Richard Friedman]

Why does it seem like devout Christians have a propensity to be doormats in marriages and live lives of quiet desperation? I guess belief in some afterlife takes away thie sting of your best years going to waste.

[Downtown]

Was the phone call episode before or after the abuse was discovered?

Uncool's 10/26/10 post says the phone call occurred a year earlier than his son's abuse incident.

It's interesting how quickly everyone is to diagnose such a complex and relatively rare disorder such as BPD (I've read about 2% of the general population are diagnosed with it)....

No, not rare at all. A recent study of 35,000 adults found the lifetime incidence of BPD to be 6%, making it four times more common than bipolar disorder. Of course, that counts only those having full blown BPD at the diagnostic level. It therefore excludes all those folks having strong BPD traits at 70%, 80%, or 90% of the diagnostic level -- which is still plenty strong to make your life miserable if you are married to them. If those folks having "strong BPD traits" are also included, I would not be surprised if the total percent of such "BPDers" is at least 9% -- above the incidence for lefthandedness.

 

As to your claim that I am trying to "diagnose" BPD, that is mistaken too. The issue here is not whether we can diagnose BPD. Only professionals can do that. Instead, the issue is whether Uncool is sufficiently intelligent to spot strong traits of BPD -- i.e., recognize the red flags -- in a woman he has been living with for many years. My view is that, yes, he is able to do that -- which is why I suggested he read more about such traits to learn about the red flags. Indeed, I believe he would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind to not see a strong occurence of such traits. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about verbal abuse, icy withdrawal, irrational and inappropriate anger, inability to trust, instability, and a controlling nature.

 

Uncool should be able to spot such traits because, before he even graduated high school, he already could recognize a strong occurrence of selfishness and grandiosity -- without being able to diagnose Narcissistic PD. He could spot the class drama queen -- without diagnosing Histrionic PD. And he could recognize extremely shy students -- without having a clue as to how to diagnose Avoidant PD. Likewise, he can easily spot BPD traits because there is a world of difference between recognizing red flags and making a clinical diagnosis.

[uncool]

 

 

^ This. So, you haven't been in the freezer for 13 years, *um no... It's been sexless trust me. Look at my anniversary post from 10/2006. sexless and in misery. *Its been very much sexless and in misery. it's just that the last 4 yrs have been hell and the last 12months has been hell x10 where you'd think that right after it happened would be the worst part. When did the abuse to your daughter occur? 13 years ago? *yes

you do have to continue talking about that. It can never be silent. That's the stuff that can affect a person her entire life. * I agree but she won't talk about that

And the mother--she's going to have issues for sure from this, especially being that it was your family member--someone who is your blood and inherently given your trust. *not exactly my blood but yes

And if there were no indications that then that would probably make her extremely paranoid and untrusting *exactly

I mean there may have been some normal married life issues before *yes because she didn't like intimacy or forplay right be before that incident either, but this incident flipped the script to severely messed up. *yes i'm very well aware And when something severly messed up occurs in your life and isn't dealt with properly at the time and throughout the years, it will always be able to rear it's ugly head and anything could trigger it. *is there a proper way to deal with something like that? Is there a magic process?That may explain why sometimes even the toothpaste on your toothbrush turns her bitter. *no i just used that as a metaphor .. lol

The bitterness she has for your brother, she is taking out on you-- *I agree but i will not stand for that displacement. I put up with it for a little while to help her heal but I will not tolerate her thinking that I had anything to do with it. because she is severely pissed/heartbroken/betrayed/resentful and that doesn't just disappear without a whole lot of help-years I would bet. *true she is so stubborn and pissed off and private that she would not seek out a shrink and probably still wont. She won't let me step in as a husband and help her either. Completely closed out. And as I said, it is liable to rear it's head after lieing dormat for years--it's never cured, only in slight remission. *thats exactly what I think has happened but she wont admit it. She displaces it by making up other crap.

 

This explains why she gives up on life sometimes and just wants to lay in a bathtub 4 times a day and wallow in her bitterness. *yes she does just wallow in bitterness. I'm glad you can see this. As a woman you can relate to this maybe as being that gender. But I have a hard time seeing anything more than the bath and the rejection she spews at me The more details you give about her, she sounds depressive--in and out of it perhaps. *she doesnt seem depressed... she acts very much in controll. just very stern and very short with me most of the time.

She's not a happy woman at all and if this happened to my child and I didn't seek help right away I would probably go through periods of denying my feelings to wallowing in them. I mean, depression can swallow you whole.

 

You have allowed her to act as you have maybe because of your own guilt. *I dont really feel guilt since I cant identify how any thing is my fault. Maybe she resents you too for still having ties to your family at all. *perhaps but what does that have to do with anything?. I don't have very close ties to them. The way she treats them is beyond in-human. Not saying that you shouldn't, but that maybe she doesn't feel you should. *if severing all ties with my folks would allow her to turn in to the person she was when we were dating then I'd cut them off in a heart beat. I mean I'd feel bad that my kids couldnt go fishing with their grandpa any more ...but I'd do it. I wouldn't believe her for a second when she says she's over this. *She hasn't said that Did she get any kind of help after this? *nope she told me at our little meeting that she had absolutely nobody to talk to (which is wrong because I've been right here and so has her mother) And your little girl? *my daughter is fine and normal..I doubt she'd remember someone fondling her during a diaper change when she was 2yrs old And yourself? *I dealt with it way back then and am fine now

 

Btw, not to be mean, but I didn't like how you went about your letter all that much. It's very me, me, me centered. *you may be right. I didnt realize that at the time. Oh well... i didnt really have a letter coach handy at the moment. Woops! that might explain her being extra pissed off after I gave it to her. After her ice cold treatment to me lately that was probably as nice as I could muster up at the moment

I don't think you are going to be the one who is going to convince her to get help. Does she have a sister or best friend? *her sisters & friends no nothing about all the deep dark stuff from years ago

great post thanks !

Edited May 1, 2011 by uncool

[starryeyed12]

Uncool's 10/26/10 post says the phone call occurred a year earlier than his son's abuse incident.No, not rare at all. A recent study of 35,000 adults found the lifetime incidence of BPD to be 6%, making it four times more common than bipolar disorder. Of course, that counts only those having full blown BPD at the diagnostic level. It therefore excludes all those folks having strong BPD traits at 70%, 80%, or 90% of the diagnostic level -- which is still plenty strong to make your life miserable if you are married to them. If those folks having "strong BPD traits" are also included, I would not be surprised if the total percent of such "BPDers" is at least 9% -- above the incidence for lefthandedness.

 

As to your claim that I am trying to "diagnose" BPD, that is mistaken too. The issue here is not whether we can diagnose BPD. Only professionals can do that. Instead, the issue is whether Uncool is sufficiently intelligent to spot strong traits of BPD -- i.e., recognize the red flags -- in a woman he has been living with for many years. My view is that, yes, he is able to do that -- which is why I suggested he read more about such traits to learn about the red flags. Indeed, I believe he would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind to not see a strong occurence of such traits. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about verbal abuse, icy withdrawal, irrational and inappropriate anger, inability to trust, instability, and a controlling nature.

 

Uncool should be able to spot such traits because, before he even graduated high school, he already could recognize a strong occurrence of selfishness and grandiosity -- without being able to diagnose Narcissistic PD. He could spot the class drama queen -- without diagnosing Histrionic PD. And he could recognize extremely shy students -- without having a clue as to how to diagnose Avoidant PD. Likewise, he can easily spot BPD traits because there is a world of difference between recognizing red flags and making a clinical diagnosis.

 

 

Only professionals can diagnose BPD, but he should look at the red flags, read up about it, and then what? Assume she has BPD? How does that help the situation? He can hardly convince her to go to counselors as it is. He's not a professional psychologist and neither are you and I. In fact, he is completely intertwined in the situation, therefore, I question is ability to see it clearly.

 

BPD is a complex disorder with many symptoms that can fit with any number of illnesses. Where did you get your stats from? From where I read 2% of the general population has actually been diagnosed. Here's my source http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a103.htm

 

That said, I agree he should be aware and mindful of her behaviors. Suggesting he look into it is one thing, but I still don't see how that helps. More justification to leave her? Do you not see what a tragedy this family has been through? There was some kind of abuse to their daughter. You try living with that and see how you cope. We all handle stress and tragedy differently. To me this incident seems like her taking her anger of that situation out on the him because she's not able to take it out on who she probably wants to, and she hasn't gotten professional help. He puts up with it because he doesn't understand it, and maybe feels he deserves it somehow.

 

I see that disorder thrown around a lot on here. Not from the people living in the situation, but people who read a few online posts about it.

 

IDK, whatever...she's got BPD, case close then.

Edited May 1, 2011 by starryeyed12

[uncool]

Are you in counceling for yourself in addition the divorce busting councelor? no. I'm not sure what type of counseling I need or to ask for. I don't think this letter you wrote was helpful at all. It was filled with a bunch of "you this and you that" statements, which comes off accusatory. *yeah thats what the other poster said as well. I suppose I could ask my wife to give me the letter back and replace it with a revised edition? Not trying to sound harsh, just pointing out how it reads. *i dont think your statement sound harsh at all and I welcome your constructive criticism Plus, there may be validity to what your wife is saying because you dispute everything other posters are telling or asking you here *now I think thats an unfair statement. I have however corrected untrue assumptions just so other posters know which information is correct or not. (like the cheating thing) I understand that it may be out of shear frustration with your marriage at this point, but it is still a communication dynamic that can cause someone to throw there arms up and say, "why bother?" *Im not sure I understand. Perhaps you could PM me and explain to me please.

 

I am going to suggest something different. I think you should write a letter about how her treatment of you actually makes you feel using "I" statements instead. For example, write, "When I heard that my phone conversation with my parents 13 years ago upset you, I felt hurt, angry and confused that I wasn't told when it happened." Or, "shutting me out and not telling the reasons you are rensentful makes me feel hurt, abandoned and like you have no faith in me as a marital partner." Or, "Knowing that you are holding onto a looong list of resentments about me without telling me what they are makes me feel insecure about where I stand as a partner in our marriage and helpless in my abilities to resolve the issues." I love your wording here!. It's everything I really meant but didnt know how to write !

 

I think that is what she needs to hear. She needs to hear from your heart how her actions are making you feel as a person, a husband and a father. That is what I would do in your shoes. I would write this type of letter and then let her sit with it and come to you once she has processed what you said. Don't try to initiate conversation, don't ask her if she read it (assume that she did), don't try to guess how she feels about it and let her come to you when she is ready to discuss it....even if it takes days or weeks. Just go about your business, doing the 180 until she initiates a conversation about it.

*OK I can write the letter and let her process it...but I know her well enough she'll never ever come to me about it. I have zero faith she'd ever do that because she never has before in the 18years I've known her

[dreamingoftigers]

The 'excuse' she gave you when you went to counseling at church was not real. It was just all she could come up with in a pinch. I bet she has no idea why she's so angry at you.

 

Like martini-mae said, I would guess that there is something wrong with her. Physical, emotional, mental.... her behavior is neither normal nor healthy.

 

She ought to get blood work done to check her hormonal levels, and a psychiatric evaluation. If she's willing, shell out for these. My H (wo treats me similarly) did the hormone check, but refuses the psych evaluation.

 

In the meantime, it sounds like a difficult, emotionally abusive situation. I understand why you've been putting up with it. 4 kids, right? Do you have daughters? They are learning how to treat their future boyfriends / husbands by watching how mom treats dad... :-(

 

The bolded.

 

And about the BPD. I strongly strongly doubt it.

 

The are far more persistent and destructive signs of BPD then this woman has.