my wifes resentments are secrets/ going through hell

[Downtown]

Where did you get your stats from? From where I read 2% of the general population has actually been diagnosed.

Good question, StarryEyed. As you know, the 2% figure has been cited for at least a decade. It was based only on very small studies, however. The first large scale study found the figure to be 5.9%. Results were published in 2008 aritcle in the Journal of Clinical Phychiatry. See

http://www.psychiatrist.com/abstracts/abstracts.asp?abstract=200804/040804.htm.

Suggesting he look into it is one thing, but I still don't see how that helps.

If his wife has strong BPD traits, understanding her behavior will be of enormous help. As a man who was married to a BPDer and has discussed this issue with hundreds of other partners in that situation, I can tell you that finding this information feels like a parting of the skies.

 

That said, you and I are not very far apart, StarryEyed. I am not yet convinced that Uncool's W has most of the nine BPD traits at a strong level. Nor am I convinced that she has exhibited them throughout the marriage because he does not provide that information. That is why I told Uncool that other traits would also have to be present and, if so, he should have seen them from the beginning of the marriage. Moreover, I have great respect for DreamingOfTiger's opinion on this issue. She also is skeptical.

 

Hence, all I said to him was that -- given that strong BPD traits could easily explain the cold icy withdrawal as well as the nonsensical rationalizations -- it may be worth his time to read my three short posts in Inigo's thread to see if the other BPD traits sound familiar. And I concluded, "If not, please ignore this post."

Edited May 1, 2011 by Downtown

[uncool]

no, you are both right. In fact my divorcebusting counselor told me she suspected BPD last week so I googled it. While some of the symtoms are spot on like in this link: http://www.stanford.edu/~corelli/borderline.html

 

For BPD to be diagnosed, at least five of the following signs and symptoms must be present:

 

* Intense fears of abandonment -no

* A pattern of unstable relationships -perhaps

* Unstable self-image -maybe a little bit but not exactly

* Impulsive and self-destructive behaviors -no

* Suicidal behavior or self-injury -no

* Wide mood swings -sometimes

* Chronic feelings of emptiness -no

* Inappropriate anger -yes

* Periods of paranoia and loss of contact with reality -sometimes

the actual diagnosis showed that she fit only 1 of the the 9 diagnosis indicators for sure in which at least 5 have to be spot on like in this link:

 

So no... there's definitely something wrong in her mind .. but probably something else that's similar to BPD.

Edited May 1, 2011 by uncool

[xxoo]

Uncool, it is difficult to quote you when you reply within quotes

 

But about the poor wording of your letter (I agree), do you see that you can't just ask for it back and reword it? You can't unring a bell. That wording hurts and creates distance.

 

There's probably been 13 years of poor communication and unfortunate wording. You can't just apologize and expect her to feel warmth for you again.

 

It bothered me (on your previous thread) that you described the episode with your brother as "fixed" because he had counseling and asked for forgiveness. Well, good for him, but that doesn't "fix" her feelings about what happened. Things aren't fixed just because you apologize. Is there an expectation, maybe in your religion, that forgiveness should be given simply because someone asked for it? Did she feel pressure, religious or familial, to forgive and get past it?

[starryeyed12]

^ This. So, you haven't been in the freezer for 13 years, *um no... It's been sexless trust me. Look at my anniversary post from 10/2006. sexless and in misery.

 

-Ok. It's confusing because you said you had some sex up until about 8-9 years ago. And that she would go to your family functions.

 

And when something severly messed up occurs in your life and isn't dealt with properly at the time and throughout the years, it will always be able to rear it's ugly head and anything could trigger it. *is there a proper way to deal with something like that? Is there a magic process?

 

-No, not magic. It's talking about it even if it's just you opening up at first, being supportive. Getting professional help and not hiding it from best friends and sisters. Obviously this was unable to happen for whatever reasons.

 

That may explain why sometimes even the toothpaste on your toothbrush turns her bitter. *no i just used that as a metaphor .. lol

 

- As did I, meaning that since she displaces her anger on you, any move you make could potentially get under her skin.

 

The more details you give about her, she sounds depressive--in and out of it perhaps. *she doesnt seem depressed... she acts very much in controll. just very stern and very short with me most of the time.

 

- I have a type of situational depression and I am still in control of myself. Before I got help I was extremely short to the people who loved me most. There were times I was okay and thought I can handle this, I don't need help after all! Then there were many times I wallowed in my grief- not by sitting in a bath tub, but by laying on my floor crying to Radiohead songs over and over again. lol Just a thought.

 

You have allowed her to act as you have maybe because of your own guilt. *I dont really feel guilt since I cant identify how any thing is my fault.

 

-Then why did you and still continue to put up with it? The kids, really? Are they old enough now that you think they won't be as affected by a divorce? Or you have just hit your wall?

 

Maybe she resents you too for still having ties to your family at all. *perhaps but what does that have to do with anything?. I don't have very close ties to them. The way she treats them is beyond in-human.

 

-You said that you still take your kids to family functions. Sounds like you still have ties. If she's not over the incident, then you bringing the kids to family functions could feel like a knife in the back to her. Abuse seems pretty un-human as well.

 

I wouldn't believe her for a second when she says she's over this. *She hasn't said that

 

-Well, you kind of did in the post I was responding to.

"um no of course she was unhappy at the time that incident occured but a couple years later she seemed over it and we'd still have sex and she could be around my side of the family and me etc... "

 

"I'm not trying to bring that old post up in this post because I don't think that even has anything to do with me not listening. " (I read that as the abuse is a non-issue now in your mind)

 

And your little girl? *my daughter is fine and normal..I doubt she'd remember someone fondling her during a diaper change when she was 2yrs old And yourself? *I dealt with it way back then and am fine now

 

- 2 years old or not this incident affects your entire family in one way or another. Are you going to hide this from her as she gets older? Not saying you should or shouldn't, just curious. My friend's baby is about 1 years old and she is extremely protective of her child. I'm trying to imagine what this would be like for her, and I can tell you that I think it would really devistate some women. Just depends I guess. Mothers have a different relationship to their child then fathers do. Take this into account that it may be easier for you than her. Not saying you don't love and have a special bond with them too. It's just a little different.

 

I don't think you are going to be the one who is going to convince her to get help. Does she have a sister or best friend? *her sisters & friends no nothing about all the deep dark stuff from years ago

 

-This is not good. Sometimes the best person to get someone to seek help is someone they trust, but who is not directly involved in the situation.

 

Well, uncool, I've tried my best here and I don't think there is anything more for me to say. Stay strong and keep your heart open to how people feel even if it is different and you don't understand it. Read books or seek professional help yourself on how to deal with this. Along with listening I think it would be good for us all to practice empathy. Good luck with it all, and your letter!

[spice4life]

*OK I can write the letter and let her process it...but I know her well enough she'll never ever come to me about it. I have zero faith she'd ever do that because she never has before in the 18years I've known her

 

Okay, I digress after going back and reading all of the posts again. I completely understand that you were merely refuting what you know to be true.

 

I am glad the wording helped. Even if she doesn't come to you to discuss it, at least you are letting her know how she is making you feel. Once you do that then the ball is in her court to address it because she cannot deny your right to have feelingss about the way you are being treated. It is your right as a human being! If it doesn't open up a dialog then she is pretty much saying she isn't interested in making your marriage better. If you choose to end your marriage after that then at least you will know that you expressed how you felt in a very adult manner and she wasn't able to at least meet you half way.

 

The communication dynamic I mentioned is more than likely caused by your frustration of trying to fix what is wrong, but she is so closed you are trying everything you can to get through to her and it is not working. What I was trying to say is that it is not working and she is so used to it that she discounts it right away. That is what I was picking up in your posts. You have to change your appraoch and start telling her how this is making you feel as I suggested in my other post. It doesn't really matter how she is feeling at this point since she won't open up. BUT,

she needs to get the message that this is hurting you and torturing you and you don't want to keep putting up with it. She needs to take ownership of her actions and what she is doing to you. It is obvious that you are trying and the only thing you can really do at this point is tell her from the heart how it is making you feel.

 

I hope this clarifies a bit.

 

Edited to add:

 

I wanted to chime in on the BPD discussion. In essense, what is happening to uncool is BPDish. His wife is perfectly happy to see him running around in circles and feeling out of

sorts about something she is keeping secret. It's easier for her to deal with it that way because he is the one carrying and trying to sort through all of the emotions. She has rested it completely on him and is not taking any responsibility for her own actions. That is why it is important he tells her exactly how this is making him feel as I have suggested in my other post. By doing this, he forces her to see the impact of her actions and forces her take back what she is putting on him (her own projections) and deal with her feelings. She may not be BPD, but she may be displaying a behavior that is typical of a person with the disorder. She is passive agressively dealing with her feelings and marital issues and it has uncool feeling off balance and squirming all around as he is trying to figure it out. That is why he needs to hit the "return to sender" button and let her see and feel what this is doing to him. It is the only way she will take ownership of her actions or inactions is probably more appropriate.

Edited May 1, 2011 by spice4life

[kakui215]

I'm not completely sure about this, but I think that PorkRinds suspects your wife of cheating....

[starryeyed12]

Ok, I lied. I thought of something else to add.

 

Bear with me for a moment, and try to see it from another perspective...it almost seems like you are defending your family on this issue.

 

Here's why--

 

You said that your wife has treated your family inhumane by not acknowledging them or wanting to be near them....yet she is the one who's baby was victimized by your family member. Why do I feel like they never rallied around her to help her through this? Why do I feel like she was alone? Why do I feel like your attempts to help her have been misguided? Maybe because you and your wife have had communication problems since well before this incident? You don't understand her feelings? Maybe because everyone wanted to sweep it under the rug as soon as possible and down play it with some couseling for the brother and have that be that. No one wants to deal with the shame it would cause if it were to leak out. They probably have the same attitude as you--Just get over it.

 

Also, the way you said that since your daughter was 2 she is fine and normal. First of all being 2 doesn't make up for anything, it rather makes it a bit more disturbing. (And yes, uncool, that statement does sound like you are downplaying it a bit bc of the age of the child) What if you were to divorce your wife and years later your daughter finds out what happened to her and the deep pain and resentment it has caused in your marriage and with your family? The path of destruction from this incident continues--now to your grown child having to deal with being victimized and the possible misguided guilt from blaming herself for your divorce--kids do take the blame, even when it is wrong to do so.

 

You can't see these thing, uncool. This troubles me a bit. I'm starting to see why your wife feels you aren't listening and you aren't ready to hear her out.

 

You don't have her back. You may think you did, but your actions speak louder than words and you brought your children around the family even knowing that she resented it. You sided with them over your wife. That's how she sees it.

 

You seem as stubborn as she is.

[OldOnTheInside]

I'll start with the extremely obvious: IMO your wife clearly has some kind of mental illness (whether it be BPD or depression or something else...none of us can really say 100%). I should emphasise that you do not leave a mental illness untreated. The longer nothing is done about it, the more the illness escalates. The face that she has done so little about it is going to be a problem.

 

I think that she is also correct to a certain degree about you being unable to listen. I'm getting this from some of your responses to the other posters but especially this:

 

I think I understand her point of view perfectly fine. Everything she said made perfect sense to me and I didnt have a problem with what she was saying at all. after she got done telling me about her resentment I made sure she was done speaking before I spoke so I didn't interrupt her. I then empathized with her and apologized for my wrong doing and was very sincere. I think I got it. I really do. And if I didnt get it the way she wanted me to get it then all she needs to do is communicate to me how she wants me to get it.

The above does sound quite mechanical to be honest. "Yes, that makes sense --> Yes, I'm listening to you, please continue --> Yes, I understand how you're feeling --> Sorry for what I've done to you."

 

Would you say that this is how you deal with all of her issues? I know that with my previous marriage, saying "I understand and I'm sorry" wasn't enough sometimes. Do you think that might be a problem?

 

I think that the biggest issue here really is the molestation of your daughter...

 

How many years ago was it when your relationship with your wife really soured?

Now take the current age of your daughter and minus two years.

 

Are the two above numbers close together?

 

Do you honestly not understand why you wife might be angry at your family for your brother's actions? What was your brother's punishment other than counselling and apologising? Has your brother been put on the sex offender list or convicted?

 

You realise the psychological damage that rape and molestation can cause right? The fact that she was two years old isn't much of an excuse. At least read up at http://www.aftersilence.org/ and http://www.livestrong.com/article/206822-signs-of-a-baby-being-molested/ before attempting to downplay his actions. Maybe some of the other posters can recommend more academic reading material on this subject.

 

Do you think your wife blames herself for what happened? I don't know what her mental state was like before your child's molestation but I doubt this helped her. Is there a possibility that this "wall" she has created is the only way she has been able to cope?

 

I am amazed out how casually the whole issue seems to have been treated.

[uncool]

That wording hurts and creates distance. tough crap. I think she probably needs to hear the wording. I've been way to nice.. in fact it's probably been what others here call "putting up with her crap" by stepping on eggshells and being disrespected for a long time now

 

There's probably been 13 years of poor communication and unfortunate wording. You can't just apologize and expect her to feel warmth for you again. *yes I can apologize and expect warmth at some time down the road. What else am I supposed to do? I apologized for something that was probably made up in the first place... just to try to break the ice and take the hit. Now come on... you're starting to sound like my bitter wife. At least I do communicate where she doesnt at all. You cant blame all this on me and 13yrs of sexless marriage as being something I deserved. I'm not an *******. I quickly drew up that letter in 5 minutes. Will I be punished for another 13yrs because of that letter? The letter was not that harsh. I felt I was to the point without being rude. I'm sick of sugar coating it in case it "offends" her. I've been walking on egg shells for many many years. I need something with teeth in it.

 

It bothered me (on your previous thread) that you described the episode with your brother as "fixed" because he had counseling and asked for forgiveness. ] Well, good for him, but that doesn't "fix" her feelings about what happened. Things aren't fixed just because you apologize. *I basically meant he's done all he can do to try to remedy the situation. I'm not sugar coating that either. He was wrong. I'm just saying that it didn't get un-noticed and that it didnt get swept under the rug by anybody. I was not trying to say it was justified or that it was no big deal. Did she feel pressure, religious or familial, to forgive and get past it?

yes I think she probably felt some soft of pressure (not by me) since my other brothers baby daughter was fondled at the same time and he and his wife were able to move on with life within a year or 2 after it happened. I think my wife was angry that they were able to get over it and that they should have insisted on more punishment or something... who knows because my wife has never been able to have a conversation about it.

[uncool]

you continued to hang out at family events after this?????

no i don't go to most of them if he's there. What am I supposed to do? disown the whole side of my family, cousins, aunts, uncles, neices, nephews because they're related to the abuser who they don't like anyways? are you serious? thats like saying drop a nuke and kill everybody in the city he lives in just because he lives in that city. Do I stay home from my grandpas funeral who I was very close to because my brother (who is now all grown up and happily married w/his own children) went also? Hell no ! you can bite me because I will not miss that. My wife didnt go but she told me she didnt have a problem w/me going either Your brother committed the most insanely horrible sort of violation of your wife's baby, which is probably worse to your wife than if she had been raped herself. *you act as though I don't know this. This subject is discussed on a whole other thread started by me. I don't even want to dive in to this again in this thread. You're jumping to conclusions.

Was your kid brother also around at these family events? Was he ever prosecuted or locked up??? Even as a juvenile delinquent/sex offender, he could and should have been put away until age 21. *nope the cops just gave him a pep talk and do nothing unless it's a repeat violation or something more serious or something I dont know Are you saying your wife was actually made to go, or expected to go, to family events where the child molester was also present? *nope after a couple years she freely went there with me & the kids on several occasions and family functions

 

How could you not understand that? *why the hell do you think that I don't understand that ? It's so obvious. And I'm not even part of it, and I understand it.

 

Is it possible that your entire family more or less swept this horrendous episode of child abuse under the rug???? *hell no it wasnt swept under the rug. what would give you that impression? do you think that i don't think about my wifes feelings or my daughters well being? Please think before you post these accusations

 

The only remotely satisfactory recompense would have been some sort of violent savage vengeance on your brother, by yourself, but of course that would be illegal. But, at the time, did you at least express those kinds of emotions to your wife--sheer hatred for your brother for what he did to your baby??? Or, did you participate in the rug sweeping? *again you're starting to pull crap out of your backside again. Please post somewhere else

 

You said you dealt with your bro's child molestation of your baby but didn't say how. *do you really need to know how? would you only accept my explanation if I beat my then 13yr old brothers head in with a baseball bat and went to jail for it since I was 25 and he was 13? It sounds like it didn't impact you much at all, complete repression at work. *you're an idiot then if you actually think that. You don't know anything. You need to send me a private message then so you dont try to spread rumors. You dont read my posts If a sibling of mine committed sexual molestation of one of my children I would feel like committing murder, after slow, very painful torture. That's the most disgusting perverted twisted act a human being could commit, and on a relative, too--a baby. *and I agree

 

I most likely would never want to see or be around any family member who would have anything to do with the child molester. *what were my parents supposed to do besides the restrictions and punishment they obviously put on him? they did not just sit back and sweep anything under the rug. What would you do if that were your son that did that? Yes my parents went through absolute hell and had to get counseling just to try to continue raising him.

 

something is telling me there's a lot of skeletons in your family's closet. *Nope you're making crap up again.. Probably because you were abused as a child and you're trying hard to associate a circumstance that did not happen the way it happed to you. See I can make up crap and assume crap also.. just like you.

 

I can't see why you would expect your wife to be able to be sexual with you.

Dude you are twisted. Try going your whole life without any intimacy or love from your wife even and tell me that its justified because of something somebody else did

 

What do you think is running through her mind when thoughts of sex come up? She is thinking of her baby being molested by your brother. She looks at you, she thinks of sex, the association is made. The only way to avoid that association is to try not to think about sex at all. *you have quite an imagination for a guy trying to think what a woman thinks. Nobody was raped here.

 

your family's complicity in enabling it/failing to fully deal with it/rug-sweeping it, is THE ONLY issue here. *but thats not an issue because that didnt happen

 

It's unfathomable to me that you would have expected your wife to have ANYTHING to do with ANY OF your family, at all, after this incident. Most likely you should have move thousands of miles away from them. *what makes you think I didnt move far away? what makes you think I expect her to want to hang out w/my family. What if my family hates my brother that did this. huh then what?

 

When you said she was only two years old at the time, doesn't remember it, implying so "what's the big deal" I vomited in my mouth a little. *of course its a big deal you freak. I was merely suggesting that "thank god she doesnt remember it"

I usually don't get offended like this but your insensitive post really touched a nerve and I'm purely disgusted at the assumptions and disregard at some of your posts and would invite you not to post in my thread any more. Normally I wouldn't even reply to such ca-ca but now I have to so hundreds of people reading this wont get the wrong impression. You're trying to make it an interesting thread by making up assumptions. So stop it please. Edited May 2, 2011 by uncool

[uncool]

Why do I feel like they never rallied around her to help her through this? *they tried but she rejected. she just wanted to be left alone. they respected that and backed off

Why do I feel like she was alone? *dont know because I was there and was rejected also. I was probably more on the smothering side at the time trying to do all I could at comforting her Why do I feel like your attempts to help her have been misguided? *I don't know why you think that but it's dead wrong. Maybe because you and your wife have had communication problems since well before this incident? *no, she's the one who won't communicate and keeps things bottled up... just like her parents do. I'm the one who loves to talk You don't understand her feelings? *depends on what feelings you're talking about. If you're trying to revert back to the abuse thing then yes I understood her feelings very well. Maybe because everyone wanted to sweep it under the rug as soon as possible .and down play it with some couseling for the brother and have that be that. *hell no.. nobody wanted to sweep anything under any rug. Legal actions were taken. Nobody downplayed anything No one wants to deal with the shame it would cause if it were to leak out. They probably have the same attitude as you--Just get over it. Do you possibly think I'm suggesting to my wife to "just get over" the abuse thing? well you're wrong. I'm asking her to forgive me for any petty things I've done in our marriage so we can be a loving couple again. For some reason the past few posts have tried to drag the abuse thing in to this. This thread is not about that. I started this thread as something that was unrelated to that so I could get some answers on the particular subject of listening. Some poster a few pages back tried to drag this back to my old post which isnt fair.

 

Also, the way you said that since your daughter was 2 she is fine and normal. First of all being 2 doesn't make up for anything, it rather makes it a bit more disturbing. *agree with you that it was disturbing. Like I said to the other poster I was mereley saying thank god she was so young that she doesnt have traumatic memories What if you were to divorce your wife and years later your daughter finds out what happened to her and the deep pain and resentment it has caused in your marriage and with your family? The path of destruction from this incident continues--now to your grown child having to deal with being victimized and the possible misguided guilt from blaming herself for your divorce--kids do take the blame, even when it is wrong to do so. *so what if? much I can do about what happened to her. The divorce would not be because of me downplaying child abuse to her mother. It would be because her mother treats her dad like dirt and her dad finally got tired of it. And it was mostly because my wife could not get over "anything" that anybody does to offend her at any time. not just an abuse incident long ago. She just holds grudges period over anything and cant get over any of them... just like her parents (my inlaws)

 

You can't see these thing *what are you talking about? of course I do, I'm starting to see why your wife feels you aren't listening and you aren't ready to hear her out. *so you think my wife hates me because you think I downplayed the abuse situation? is that it. Well you're wrong and I think you've been reading to much in to the false post above yours

 

You don't have her back. You may think you did, but your actions speak louder than words and you brought your children around the family even knowing that she resented it. *um for your information.. my wife tries to get me to bring the kids to several of my families holiday functions and gets upset when I don't want to. You sided with them over your wife. *I sure as hell didn't. My wife has ALWAYS come before them. What do you mean by sided with them. Do you think my parents are actually on a side? Do you think my parents try to get her to accept my brother or something?

 

You seem as stubborn as she is.

 

*just trying to defend myself against false assumptions and unfair accusations on an online forum when all I wanted to do was get advice on the definition of listening

[OldOnTheInside]

After reading some of your prior posts I do feel that I made some condescending judgements. I apologise for that. But still, I do believe that your daughter's molestation has played a large part in your wife's instability.

 

I don't know what else to say.

[uncool]

The above does sound quite mechanical to be honest. "Yes, that makes sense --> Yes, I'm listening to you, please continue --> Yes, I understand how you're feeling --> Sorry for what I've done to you."

*that almost sounds like I interrupted her which didnt happen.

 

Would you say that this is how you deal with all of her issues? *no because this is the first time she's ever told me about an issue. I know that with my previous marriage, saying "I understand and I'm sorry" wasn't enough sometimes. Do you think that might be a problem? *you're probaly right... I just didn't know it was bad to respond like that. I thought acknowledging, empathizing, and apologizing would be a good thing. Is there something better I should have done. What should I have done?

 

I think that the biggest issue here really is the molestation of your daughter...

 

How many years ago was it when your relationship with your wife really soured? *4-5yrs ago (2006)

Now take the current age of your daughter and minus two years.

 

Are the two above numbers close together? *no

 

What was your brother's punishment other than counselling and apologising? *Its been so long I cant remember all the exact details but I know my folks had him on a pretty tight rope for a while and had some sort of restrictions put on him besides the counseling and medication he was on for his usual mental issues. They understood if we didn't want to come down and visit them while he was there etc. This was all new to me and them. What punishments should they have imposed on him that they didnt do? keep in mind this was all new to my folks as they had never dealt with this before. Has your brother been put on the sex offender list or convicted? Nope they dont do that for a single incident and especially the young age.

You realise the psychological damage that rape and molestation can cause right? *yes of course I do. (thank god there was no rape)

The fact that she was two years old isn't much of an excuse *of course its not an excuse. before attempting to downplay his actions *do you think I'd actually try do downplay the actions of somebody who abused my daughter? good hell ! . Maybe some of the other posters can recommend more academic reading material on this subject. I don't need reading material

 

Do you think your wife blames herself for what happened? *who knows but I dont think so I don't know what her mental state was like before your child's molestation *her strange mental states didnt really shine until a couple years ago.

I am amazed out how casually the whole issue seems to have been treated.

*I'm amazed that people think it was casually treated in the first place. perhaps I somehow gave the impression that the abuse situation was swept under the rug or casually treated (which was not the case)in which I apologize.

[uncool]

i just read your post also.

 

It's all good buddy.

[uncool]

Look folks.. this thread is going down the wrong road. A road that I've already been down and don't want to dig up and relive and defend myself from over and over again like a previous thread I started.

 

I've been extremely lonely lately and have craved female companionship and intimacy from my wife the last few years and was hoping to get some help here. I suppose Loveshack is not the type of board I should be going to. Or perhaps I disclose to much information.

 

I'm starting to take some of these posts a little to seriously and defensively to where it's not enjoyable to me any more. I do however, want to thank many of the posters here for their valuable insight as to how I might be able to get my wife to love me again.

 

If anybody has anything constructive to add that might help me in my quest to get my wife back now instead of "what i shouldn't have done" please feel free to add it now or please just PM me. I shouldn't have divulged so much private information since this thread is now "google-able"

 

I'll probably now ask one of the mods to close & lock this thread now.

 

I appreciate you guys

thanks and God bless

 

UC

[xxoo]

Uncool, I'm sorry you haven't found what you were looking for here.

 

But if all these people believe that the abuse is THE central issue, why would you dismiss that out of hand? It is the right time frame, and even in the general time frame of the mysterious "phone conversation" (which I suspect may be related to the abuse issue--if only in that she percieved it to be yet ANOTHER boundary crossed with your family).

 

If you wife refused to talk about the abuse issue all those years ago, you should have insisted THEN that she talked to a therapist. If she didn't talk to you, your family, HER family, or HER friends....she obviously did not process the issue in a healthy manner. She stuffed it, and it is NO surprise that it came erupting back years later, like a volcano. Something triggered it--maybe your brother married and had a baby? Maybe your daughter entered puberty? Maybe your wife had some sort of personal breakdown or breakthrough, and couldn't fake it anymore? There was a trigger.

 

Yes, your wife has some big issues, and likely mental health issues. But you missed some huge red flags along the way. It blows my mind that you insist there were not "communication problems" between you and your wife all those years because she was the one unwilling to talk. That is a communication problem! If one person in a marriage is unwilling to talk, you both have a communication problem.

[giotto]

He can post as many threads as he wants and get angry at as many LS posters as he wants but it's not going to change a word of what his wife wrote in that letter.

 

he might have a good reason to believe that that's not the case. We don't really know. Judging from his reaction, he is pretty sure it's something different. To be honest, I always thought it was the abuse too...

[Downtown]

PorkRinds, based solely on Uncool's first single post above, you wrote a page-long post castigating his W. You were absolutely convinced it was all her fault. You wrote confidently, "Yup. She's a cheater. Get a private investigator." Amazingly, the matter was so obvious to you that you concluded, "The answer is simple. She's a cheater."

 

Then, after learning about the molestation incident, you found another simple answer. You decided it is all Uncool's fault because he did not bring fire and damnation down onto the head of his 13 year old brother, an emotionally disturbed boy only a year past being a child himself. So now you've written several pages of great elaboration about an incident we have no details about -- speculating how Uncool MIGHT have done the wrong thing. Well, yes, MAYBE he did.

 

The way these forums work, PorkRinds, is that we assume thread authors are basically telling the truth. I know this thought makes you gag. And I know this assumption implies garbage-in-garbage-out, because we can only give good advice when given accurate information. Yet, that limitation gives OPs a powerful incentive to be truthful.

 

More important, absent that assumption, these forums cannot work at all because the threads will all collapse -- as this one has done at your hands -- into endless speculation in the search for a simple answer. It occurs to me, for example, that Uncool MIGHT be a 13 year old girl who made up the entire story. Yet, that "simple answer," like the two you pulled out of thin air, does nobody any good.

[giotto]

This marriage is dead, has been dead for 13 years, and all uncool can think about is he hasn't been getting nooky, like, who cares about that?

 

I can tell you are not married...

[giotto]

Uncool says in his first post, in this thread:

 

was told there was many many more resentments she has towards me and that she felt I wasnt able to "listen" to them yet

 

this seems to exclude the abuse case, since it was such a long time ago and it was "resolved". Unless it's still one of them (and I believe it is). But Uncool knows about it and his wife knows he knows... so, it doesn't make sense...

 

 

The way Uncool has framed the issue of his marital problems is "Why is my wife behaving/feeling this way towards me?" So regardless of how subjective the wife's feelings might be, we need to know what they are, and why. Uncool repeatedly claims to be rather mystified about why his wife is resentful of him.

 

Then as it turns out, she wrote him a letter and explained it. She could be overreacting, maybe not, but that's how she feels about it.

 

Of course it's the abuse. The wife said that's what it was, and Uncool knows that.

 

Uncool decided a long time ago that that is a road he doesn't want to go down with his wife. All he seems to emphasize is the lack of affection, but pretends he doesn't know why his wife feels that way, when he does know.

 

Dealing with the wife's subjective feelings about the abuse would cause Uncool to have to lift up the family rug and revisit all this ugliness that happened 13 years ago. It might turn out that there were things he, or his parents, should have seen, or could have done, to prevent this from happening. Maybe there were warning signs. Maybe more should have been done by Uncool and his parents when this happened.

 

Maybe not. But Uncool doesn't even want to go there.

 

Think about what might happen if he tells his wife, "Yes. Let's go there. Let's bring this all out in the open."

 

The brother (who for some reason Uncool says is disliked by the entire family, but I guess tolerated) is supposedly happily married with children. Is it likely the brother's wife knows he's a child molester? Is that something people tell their prospective spouses? I mean let's face it--people don't even like talking about relatively benign sexual histories, much less having been a child molester.

 

So if Uncool makes a stink about this, after all this time, yes it probably will have some serious familial repercussions. Again so what? That die was cast 13 years ago.

 

Now, Uncool can react by saying "You know what? I don't want to go there. To me it's buried in the past and that's where I want it to stay." I guess that's a legitimate point of view. What isn't a legitimate point of view is pretending not to understand his wife's feelings and behavior.

[Downtown]

PortRinds, I appreciate the calm and measured way in which you responded to me. You make several good points, the most important being that Uncool should have shared with us in this thread -- from the beginning -- that his W has harbored resentment toward him for the molestation issue. But I was aware of all those points when writing my post above.

 

I share your view that the molestation likely is the main trigger for the W's resentment which she dumped onto her H. Yet, unlike the W of Uncool's brother, Uncool's W decided to punish her H for 13 years -- as explained in her letter. And we have no evidence whatsoever that she was justified in transferring all that hatred toward Uncool.

 

It therefore remains unclear whether Uncool created the anger in her by not being communicative -- as you are too quick to claim -- or, rather, that anger had been created in the W's childhood and triggered by the incident. I don't know the answer to that. I nonetheless share Xxoo's view that the W likely had mental health issues prior to the incident which made her ill prepared to handle it.

 

Where you and I part company entirely is your view that Uncool failed his W and daughter by not bringing a criminal prosecution against his own 13 year old brother. I don't know what country you live in but, here in the States, our society does not criminally prosecute emotionally disturbed boys who are only one year past childhood themselves. Instead, we provide mental health professionals to help them recover from the mental illness carried from early childhood. We learned fifty years ago that the last thing a 13 year old needs, as part of his recovery, is to be saddled with a permanent criminal record.

 

As bad as your attitude is on that, what is dumbfounding is your attitude that Uncool is now fully to blame -- and the formerly "cheating" W is now a saint -- because he did not over-ride his parents' judgment and insist that the police file charges against the boy. Yes, yes, I know -- you never used the words "fully to blame" and "saint." So I exaggerate a bit. My point is that, after learning about that incident, you replaced a page-long castigation of the W with several pages of diatribe on the H, where you drag Uncool through the coals for not punishing his brother.

 

Never mind that we have insufficient detail to know exactly how bad his brother's molesting behavior was -- and have insufficient detail to know what Uncool and his W even said to the brother. Finally, with respect to that lack of detail, Uncool has already provided so much detail that he is at risk of the W finding it online through a search engine. I therefore am not encouraging him to provide more.

[starryeyed12]

Hey, Uncool. Not sure if you are going to read this, but just wanted to say that I'm sorry you didn't get the answers you were seeking. Also, I'm sorry that the tide turned on your post in a way that was unexpected and, at times, harsh on you.

 

My interpretation to your original post was as a question to the ladies asking how you can become a better listener, an active listener.

 

But over the course of your post you described a situation that was very puzzling to those who did not know your background, or even that this recent post could tie into previous posts.

 

The fact that you only wanted to reveal details of how your life has been miserable due to your wife's treatment would have been perfectly fine if you only wanted to vent--but you asked a question to us, wanting our help to figure it out.

 

How do you become an active listener for your wife?

 

Well, I could have just copied and pasted the definition of active listener or a link to a How-To site, but to make it more relevant to your situation, I needed more details about your past. I really wanted to help. Remember my previous posts? I threw out scenario after scenario trying to help think of issues that could have come up through the years that maybe were not addressed properly, thus leading your wife to think you were not an active listener. You said no, not it, nope nope nope. You thanked me and said great posts.

 

It felt a little like a game...you throw out a few clues, we try to piece them together, and you tell us if we are getting warm yet. It's like you knew the answer of why your wife has issues and doesn't think you are a good listener, but were holding it back for us to guess it, or really to come up with something else that you would like the sound of better.

 

You refuted when it was suggested BPD. You refuted when it was suggested depression. We're getting warmer........but thats not it!

 

Of course the molestation was going to be huge in a discussion of why your wife is resentful and doesn't want to talk to you or think you can listen--right or wrong of her.

 

I stand by my last post before this in that she feels resentment that you sided with the family a bit too much. This may truly be contradictory to some of her other words or actions, but since she hasn't opened up beyond the letter and 13 year old phone call, it's anyone's guess.

 

I think she doesn't want to talk to you because she feels that you defend the family over her and your daughter's secret. (and that's whether you agree or not...)

 

Because of this, I think she doesn't think you are willing to listen because she knows that you will be hurt/offended/angry to hear the bitter truth about the feelings and thoughts that have crossed her mind in the last 13 miserable years. If she's not mentally stable this could be quite contradictory and devistating for you. Maybe a conversation to which you will both never recover. The final straw.

 

Her silence makes it your decision if you want to leave or not. Will you or won't you put up with her behavior and silence? You don't know what she's thinking. She probably doesn't care either way.

 

Is she justified in her feelings, is she bat-**** crazy now and maybe before all this or maybe because of this, is she right, is she wrong?

 

That is for YOU to decide. If you think she is not crazy, she just needs some help and may come around receiving some, and if you want to validate her feelings (even if your disagree or don't understand them) then your marriage may have a chance.

 

BUT, therein lies the rub. You will be dumped with about 109409348348 more pounds of **** on you--**** which has been brewing and stirring through the years beyond what you think you know.

 

If can handle that you will maybe be rewarded with a happy rest of your marriage, if nothing else a bit healthier.

 

If you take this route, this path, then you must go about saying you were wrong all these years, admit that you sided with the family a bit too much, and that you will do whatever it takes to make her happy, so long as she will talk to you candidly. Speak nothing of your own pain and your own resentment as you swallow this pill. She may open up upon seeing you surrender yourself like this. She may get help. She may not.

 

And if this is all too much

 

-----then leave now. Don't look back. Just run.

Edited May 3, 2011 by starryeyed12
clarification

[TigerCub]

If I read this correctly your brother molested your daughter around 13 years ago, you sided with your brother and mother and covered for him by not pressing charges. And you want to know why your wife holds resentment against you? Well if what I gathered from this is correct well than the answer is simple......you let your brother get away with molesting your daughter.

 

 

Stop running from the truth and confront it. Also, call the cops and report his sick ass

 

Well in his eyes, his daughter was just touched once during a diaper change and "thank god" she was 2 at the time and wont remember.

He let the family handle the situation and sweep everything under the rug because if he actually went and beat his brother like he might have wanted - he would be the one to end up in jail.

 

Yeah...I know!

 

yeah and now this child molesting pervert has kids of his own to abuse

 

Anywhos that's why he gets so defensive when anyone wants to discuss the molestation issue (which is the heart of the matter) - Uncool would rather believe that its been 13 years, its done - so there must be another reason that his wife is a bitch to him no matter how hard he tries to make it up to her.

 

I don't think Uncool will ever really face the fact that the molestation and the way he let his family handle it is the true cause because I don't think he wants to face the fact that he failed miserably as a father - he failed to handle **** right when his own daughter was taken advantage of in the most disgusting of ways.

 

I went at it with him in his very first post and then he kept talking about both sides of his mouth with regards to what he did and how much/little contact he has with his family.

 

He wants to pretend that just because he's a good father now - that he didn't fail his daughter before.

He wants to pretend that just because the incident happened 13 years ago and his wife slept with him after - then THIS can't possibly be the reason that his wife is so distant from him and resents him so much.

 

Honestly I feel bad for everyone involved. And if the wife is not willing to talk about it - I think Uncool should probably just end things - because he may have f**ked up royally and beyond words - but does that mean that he should be living like this forever? I dunno...

 

Its all very sad.

[xxoo]

uncool had this to say with regard to the police:

 

*nope the cops just gave him a pep talk and do nothing unless it's a repeat violation or something more serious or something I dont know

 

It makes me wonder what the HELL is going on where they live if that was the police response Esp since, if I am reading the next quote right, the brother also molested another niece????

 

yes I think she probably felt some soft of pressure (not by me) since my other brothers baby daughter was fondled at the same time and he and his wife were able to move on with life within a year or 2 after it happened. I think my wife was angry that they were able to get over it and that they should have insisted on more punishment or something... who knows because my wife has never been able to have a conversation about it.

 

It makes me irate to even think about it.

[TigerCub]

uncool had this to say with regard to the police:

 

*nope the cops just gave him a pep talk and do nothing unless it's a repeat violation or something more serious or something I dont know

 

It makes me wonder what the HELL is going on where they live if that was the police response

 

I know!! I was wondering the same thing about the police part - and quite honestly, I doubted that it was true - but ya never know...it just seems so wrong to brush it off with just a "pep talk"

 

Esp since, if I am reading the next quote right, the brother also molested another niece????

 

 

 

It makes me irate to even think about it.

 

I totally missed that part about the other niece - that's just terrible. I can't believe that people would just allow **** like that to happen - its disgusting. Its so sad ...