Moving forward with plan to leave our spouses

[LilyBart]

Not a problem for me following my heart or my dreams, but there is no need for me to trample others to get where I want to be. That isn't a dream, it's a nightmare. And if that is what a heart can spawn...

 

Oh. And how is extracting oneself as non-traumatically as possible from one's M "trampling on others"? Do explain.

[AuthenticBliss]

People who know nothing about honor, sometimes do dishonorable things.

[Minnie09]

I don't know how the described scenario is supposed to result in a less traumatic break-up. That's just BS. It's cowardly and immature. If I want to separate, why not do it by being honest and upfront, giving my partner a fair chance to think and talk everything over thoroughly? A breakup is never a walk in the park for anyone, especially not for the partner who suspects nothing, but depriving them of the facts so they cannot decide and plan accordingly is just plain selfish and cruel. Dragging them through MC under false pretenses just to cover up infidelity is just absolutely ridiculous. I believe that nothing good will come out of such actions in the long run, especially for those who chose to play an unfair game. One way or the other, it's going to bite them in their butts.

[carrie999]

OP,

So you are ahead of your H professionally. Does that mean he is not a good man and not worthy of you? What effort have you made to keep that love alive, and the fire burning, so to speak. I'm not saying this to be mean, but to make you think.

 

Also, don't you feel that attending marriage counseling with the plan in your head of already leaving is not fair to your H in the slightest... not to mention time consuming and expensive?/

 

Hi TurboGirl,

My H is a good man, yes, but his lack of ambition and drive is in such direct contrast and opposition to my own career path. I'm a huge upward trajectory, and he's on a downward spiral. In the past five years as my passion for my career has blossomed - making me a happier, more fulfilled person overall - he's been steadily regressing, resentful of my position and the perception that I get more from my job than I do from him. Well, in some ways that is true. He openly admits to our MC that he would like a 1950s dynamic again... an existence that would all but obliterate my independence and identity.

 

Admittedly I haven't worked hard to make our marriage much better. I've just steadily grown away from him. I take responsibility for that.

 

And when we began MC, it was with the intention of working on our marriage. But months have rolled on and things between us have gotten worse as issues have presented themselves in counselling, and now I think I am just going through the counselling motion to say I did it.

 

I'm not proud of myself.

 

Wow. Your explanation is perfect, and to me encapsulates everything you needed to learn from MC. MC doesn't necessarily make a couple work together. In your situation, it highlighted how fundamentally wrong you are for one another. You started MC for all the right reasons, and merely discovered that continuing the marriage would never work unless you were willing to sacrifice who you are just to sustain it. You should be proud of yourself for trying, and for being realistic about what is or is not right for you.

[bentnotbroken]

Oh. And how is extracting oneself as non-traumatically as possible from one's M "trampling on others"? Do explain.

 

 

That's like talking to rock about being a tree.

[LilyBart]

That's like talking to rock about being a tree.

 

Yes, like "advice" given to an OW from someone who is diametrically opposed to it.

 

From what I've seen, most BSs would like nothing more than for an A/R to falter and fail. Even if the two people in the A/R are better matched, better suited, better (fill in the blank) than the two involved in the M.

 

So my .02 to all those getting "opinions" from "everyone" because - oh yeah, this is a PUBLIC forum - keep that in mind.

 

There are those out there who do not champion love because it didn't work out for them.

[bentnotbroken]

Yes, like "advice" given to an OW from someone who is diametrically opposed to it.

 

From what I've seen, most BSs would like nothing more than for an A/R to falter and fail. Even if the two people in the A/R are better matched, better suited, better (fill in the blank) than the two involved in the M.

 

So my .02 to all those getting "opinions" from "everyone" because - oh yeah, this is a PUBLIC forum - keep that in mind.

 

There are those out there who do not champion love because it didn't work out for them.

 

 

I could tel you that for me I know do not cheer if a relationship falters and fails, married and or otherwise. But what I do care about, will always care about is everyone having the same information to make decisions about their lives. It has absolutely nothing to do with love. Love isn't full of lies and deceit. If affair partners are better matched:bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny:GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!! honestly go for it. But walk out the front door with your head up instead of slinking out with your head up your....you get the picture. Love for me is based what is right. And whatever I start doing wrong, I make amends to those I have wronged and do the right thing.

[Breezy Trousers]

I don't think everyone here is are against true love. I do think many here are against delusional thought, which is often characteristic with New Relationship Energy, or love fog. Delusion never leads to happily ever. That's why you need to consider all perspectives, which is what Cabin is doing here.

 

I just want to point out the obvious here --

 

1. Two people meet at work.

 

2. Others notice they have a certain chemistry.

 

3. The same spouses leave their spouses and children within months of each other.

 

4. The same spouses reappear as a couple months later and tell everyone, "It's a shame, really. We tried therapy with our spouses, but it didn't work. Looks like it was meant to be, because here we are now! Synchronicity, we guess."

 

Seriously. Would everyone be so lame that they can't possibly figure this out? Particularly the betrayed spouses?

 

Love fog never ceases to amaze me.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Breezy Trousers

[LilyBart]

I don't think everyone here is are against true love. I do think many here are against delusional thought, which is often characteristic with New Relationship Energy, or love fog. Delusion never leads to happily ever. That's why you need to consider all perspectives, which is what Cabin is doing here.

 

I just want to point out the obvious here --

 

1. Two people meet at work.

 

2. Others notice they have a certain chemistry.

 

3. The same spouses leave their spouses and children within months of each other.

 

4. The same spouses reappear as a couple months later and tell everyone, "It's a shame, really. We tried therapy with our spouses, but it didn't work. Looks like it was meant to be, because here we are now! Synchronicity, we guess."

 

Seriously. Would everyone be so lame that they can't possibly figure this out? Particularly the betrayed spouses?

 

Love fog never ceases to amaze me.

 

Not counting the people at work....I will have to say YES.

 

Why? Because you read COUNTLESS stories about how the BS was "blindsided" on D-Day. You read about how they had no clue. Or how they 'knew' things were bad but they didn't think it was 'that bad' (ie. affair).

 

If they're THAT clueless, they don't deserve to know. Or, if they're THAT scared to confront their spouse, or dig around and find proof, or whatever it is that BS do - why should the AP's bother telling?

 

Come on people, seriously.

[bentnotbroken]

Not counting the people at work....I will have to say YES.

 

Why? Because you read COUNTLESS stories about how the BS was "blindsided" on D-Day. You read about how they had no clue. Or how they 'knew' things were bad but they didn't think it was 'that bad' (ie. affair).

 

If they're THAT clueless, they don't deserve to know. Or, if they're THAT scared to confront their spouse, or dig around and find proof, or whatever it is that BS do - why should the AP's bother telling?

 

Come on people, seriously.

 

 

By your analogy then if an AP is involved then they deserve to get whatever comes there way. Crazy BS chopping at the bit to issue their own form of retribution or a deadly disease.....because they should have had a clue....seriously.

[Loni]

If both of you plan on being together then going to MC with your respective spouses is money down the drain not to mention false hope for your spouses. If you truly plan on being together your best bet is IC and couples counseling to navigate how you guys can do this with minimal fallout.

 

The good thing about a great therapist is that you tell them your goal and they help you figure out how to achieve it. Going to MC if you have no intention of staying marriage is giving your MC a different goal than what you want so the therapist is going to try to help you fix your marriage; after all that is why you are supposedly there.

[Loni]

Yes, based on what you've shared, it's probably too late, but please be careful. People in love are easy to spot -- overnight improved appearance, happy hormones, seen together in atypical places, etc.

 

The first year my friend was in her affair, she insisted to me that NO ONE would ever find out -- they were so very discreet, etc. Then MM instituted NC with her, breaking her heart. Nine months after NC was initiated -- to their mutual shock -- HR called them in and did an inquisition. Apparently, office gossip continued to mushroom about them even though the affair had long been over. People didn't realize it had ended and kept talking about it until HR was forced to deal with it.... Both denied the affair to HR. However, the crisis proved to be an opportunity for co-workers to openly wag their fingers at my friend. (The emotional opinions on infidelity expressed on this forum are merely a reflection of public opinion out there.)

 

HR didn't exactly support my friend -- in fact, they remained icy toward her long after the office D-Day. The infuriating thing is, after the initial shock passed, MM was treated normally -- even he said so! -- while my friend continued to take the "hit" in public opinion. I suspect this is because MM has power and makes lots of $$$ for the company, while my friend is, in comparison, dispensable. Regardless, it's unfair considering they both participated in the affair. The tense atmosphere caused my friend to leave the workplace months later. She couldn't deal with it. MM is still there ..... Business as usual.

 

My experience was different. When I kicked out my then MM it was he whom was fired. Then again it never was a secret that he was married and we were together. No one really cared about the affair part but rather how our breakup and me having to work with him was impacting my work. He left quietly. Man, it was really hard admitting that I not only had taken him back but was marrying him.

[Breezy Trousers]

If both of you plan on being together then going to MC with your respective spouses is money down the drain not to mention false hope for your spouses. If you truly plan on being together your best bet is IC and couples counseling to navigate how you guys can do this with minimal fallout.

 

The good thing about a great therapist is that you tell them your goal and they help you figure out how to achieve it. Going to MC if you have no intention of staying marriage is giving your MC a different goal than what you want so the therapist is going to try to help you fix your marriage; after all that is why you are supposedly there.

 

 

Loni, I agree, but I think in this instance, the APs want to make it appear to outsiders they "tried very hard" to make their respective marriages work even though they've been having an affair for two years and have no intention of making the marriages work. I think it's also intended to be a means for creating a supportive foundation for the BS and the kids after the divorces.

[Breezy Trousers]

Not counting the people at work....I will have to say YES.

 

Why? Because you read COUNTLESS stories about how the BS was "blindsided" on D-Day. You read about how they had no clue. Or how they 'knew' things were bad but they didn't think it was 'that bad' (ie. affair).

 

If they're THAT clueless, they don't deserve to know. Or, if they're THAT scared to confront their spouse, or dig around and find proof, or whatever it is that BS do - why should the AP's bother telling?

 

Come on people, seriously.

 

LilyBart, sorry I didn't make this clear: I'm referring to people putting things together AFTER the fact the affair is exposed. People aren't as dumb as affair partners tend to believe. My point is that those outside of love fog -- outsiders and BS -- tend to see things much more clearly than AP suspect once the affair is exposed.

 

Due to love fog, affairs tend to be highly narcissistic entities even if the affair partners are not: lack of empathy, sense of entitlement, exploitation/manipulation of others, etc. Part of narcissism is grandiosity -- believing you are better or smarter than everyone else. Love affairs are certainly high in that aspect.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Cabin! I asked you on your other thread, maybe you'll answer here. How are your steps to leave your marriage going at this point? What about the AP's?

[Breezy Trousers]

LilyBart, sorry I didn't make this clear: I'm referring to people putting things together AFTER the fact the affair is exposed..

 

Correction: I intended to say after the APs divorce and move in together, not after affair is exposed.

[Breezy Trousers]

Cabin! I asked you on your other thread, maybe you'll answer here. How are your steps to leave your marriage going at this point? What about the AP's?

 

 

Bumping this up for Mme. Chaucer .... Cabin, are you out there?