HELL: The Final Count Down

[Samson]

Thanks, LFW

 

Also, I guess I can see SlapDick's side, however awful. He could be right? I'm beginning to believe, damned if I do, damned if I don't scenario is the only option.

 

BTW, LFW, Why JK? I really liked your Joey imitation. Perhaps, with the help of a shoehorn and a zuccinni, anything's possible!

[lostforwords]

BTW, LFW, Why JK? I really liked your Joey imitation. Perhaps, with the help of a shoehorn and a zuccinni, anything's possible!

 

ROFL...... blast that zuchinni and shoehorn will always come back to haunt me wont it..... and your right.... anything is possible... ohhhh we could incorporate some whip cream in there too... hmmmm... now my mind is racing.... LMAO

[Arabess]

Sampson,

I think once someone KNOWS when it's time to leave a marriage. At that point, it's better for all concerned. You will kow in your heart when it's time to pack up your underwear, leave a support check on the table and figure out which card board box behind the appliance store will work for you.

 

It'll be tough on the kids initially. But when you DO spend time with them, it will be quality time not drowned out by the endless bickering.

 

Divorce isn't the best answer.....but sometimes....it's the ONLY answer. When this time comes for you, you will know it.

[Fandango]

I just left my husband, and the deciding factor? I didn't want my boys to see me letting him treat me the way he was. I didn't want that to be an example for them to treat any future women in their lives.

Life is way too ****ing short to put up with unhappiness. Build a little room to live in? I don't think so. Go get a small apartment and have joint custody, kids will be just fine. Hell, most kids who have parents that are still together are the oddballs...like me. My parents have been happily married for 40 yrs, I'm no less screwed up than kids from broken homes.

[Thinkalot]

Just for the record, Samson, I disagree with SlapDicks analysis. It's fine to work at things, and it is expected, but there comes a time when walking away can be the best option, even for the kids involved. It varies of course, but I don't think you are wrong for looking at your options at this point. And you children may prefer to live in a household void of tension. It's your call. Do what is right for you.

[aroseInLove]

Originally posted by Wolvesbaned

So many times I had wished they divorced earlier. Do you know how that kind of environment affects kids? Children are very bright and you can't simply play off a happy relationship when it's obviously the opposite. What kind of example are you setting by living a life of misery?

 

Wolvesbaned is so very right... Samson, I wish you, your wife and your children ALL the very best.. I truly do not know what's best as not sure what the household sounds like day-to-day.. Only you know that for certain. I just would hope you seriously consider, as you're making this decision, to please keep in mind that, you and your wife truly are the number one role models for your children.

 

It's just systematic.. they love you both.. you are their rock.. their super-heroes.. you and your wife are the most important people in their entire life.

 

With that emphasis, whatever is happening now in your day-to-day household .... what they live with as a daily routine becomes the 'norm' by default.. and it's automatically translated as acceptable behavior/atmosphere implanted in their minds and does not go away. It is going to stay with them for life.. in their memories.. and in their fears.

 

Worst of all, odds are, IF the same behavior/atmosphere were to cross their paths as adults... whatever you accept as routine today... just might be what they accept as routine tomorrow ....So, please, as you choose what to do here.. please weigh in what you would want for them to accept as routine.. as adults.. if in the same type scenario...

 

Please make certain they KNOW you did not leave because of them. Threw that in because one of my girls used to ask me all the time.. "Why did Daddy leave when I was born? I'd try to make her Daddy explain to her personally that it wasn't the case.. but his lack of wanting to make those words to her made me tell her it wasn't the case.. and my telling her was just never good enough for her little mind.

 

Lastly, on visits with children... please don't bring your buddies.. co-workers... ..your dates.. your girlfriends.. or a new wife along... BRING JUST YOU...

 

From years of experience only, children cry and experience near trauma that Daddy had to take her along... They'd come home feeling gypped to lose Daddy's one-on-one undivided special attention they so looked forward to... and felt so very entitled to.. They'd say.. he can see her any time.. why does he have to bring her on our days? My ex-husband used to think they needed to get used to this person..

 

Thus, years of therapy resulted because his taking her along is what robbed them of their Daddy.. NOT the divorce....

 

God bless every single one of you.

[gaia]

I guess I can see SlapDick's side

 

Now there's a surprise!

 

There are always two sides to any difficult decision. The reason this one is generating so much discussion is because the sides are so evenly balanced. Do you really think your kids would hate you? I have several friends who are divorced with young children and the only thing which has upset the kids has been the inconsistency of contact with their father following the divorce. None of them hate their father.

 

I don't know how bad your marriage has got, but would your wife move away or in any other way try to keep you apart from the kids. You've painted her as a good mother - so I doubt it. Is there any chance that at least this aspect of your separation could be amicable and worked out in advance for the childrens' benefit?

 

I know it's a terrible dilemma and I really feel for you. But you deserve more of a life than this.

[Greta]

Originally posted by Samson

But finally, I haven't really heard from children: PLEASE ANSWER:

 

CHILDREN OF DIVORCED PARENTS: ARE YOU HAPPY YOUR PARENTS DIVORCED?

 

My parents divorced when I was 5 years old, after 9 years of marriage, I really don't have any memories of them together - just pictures. I remember as a child having the fantasy that my parents would get back together, which of course didn't happen (they both married other people, and I probably felt more resentment towards the step-parents - because they intruded on my little fantasy) They remained friendly with each other after the divorce & never bad-mouthed one another in my presence. Now that I'm married & have kids of my own they still get along wonderfully (the steps too). They all come to the kids BD parties & chat and even hug goodbye. I feel I was very lucky in that respect, considering how many divorces end up with the parents trying to constantly put down the other.

 

On the flip side of this coin, my husbands parents have been married for 30 years. Now that my husband is grown, he's said on numerous occasions that he wished his parents would have gotten divorced because his dad makes his mom miserable (my husband & his dad haven't spoken in over 3 years and his dad has never laid eyes on our youngest child).

 

All of this is why I don't believe that a couple should stay in a marriage 'for the sake of the children', sure it may take them time to adjust to a divorce, but if it's handled appropriately, like mature adults, it can work out very well. I think that would be better than the children feeling resentment toward one parent or one day saying to their SO "my parents should've got divorced a long time ago."

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by Samson

Thanks, LFW

 

Also, I guess I can see SlapDick's side, however awful. He could be right? I'm beginning to believe, damned if I do, damned if I don't scenario is the only option.

 

BTW, LFW, Why JK? I really liked your Joey imitation. Perhaps, with the help of a shoehorn and a zuccinni, anything's possible!

 

samson, look at the anger and bitterness behind SlapDick's posts. Don't be like that. I'm so sorry that things did not work out within the bonds of marriage, but that does not mean that things won't work out outside the bonds of marriage. Divorce will give both of you the opportunity to find happiness yourselves and as along as you remain an active dad, your kids will be fine. It is better for them to see their parents split from each other and grow on their own, meet their own challenges, find their own independence and happiness, then to witness parents act trapped in unhappiness. It doesn't offer much hope for the kids and sets a bad example for their own lives.

 

Sure they will be hurt and confused, but only for a while. You have already demonstrated that one does not just up and walk away from a marriage - you try to make it work by going to counseling and working together. But sometimes the right thing to do is to split up.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by Fandango

I'm no less screwed up than kids from broken homes.

 

Now THERE is a T-shirt slogan!

[Arabess]

When my son was 10, I asked him if it bothered him not having a Dad around. He replied "No.... or else I would have to sit in the back seat more often!".

 

Kids are so cool. I think we often make mountains out of molehills.

[Samson]

Thanks to all for contributing to my better understanding.

 

My wife agrees with everyone but slapdick. Apparently, he's a moron?

[lostforwords]

lmao samson

[gaia]

My wife agrees with everyone but slapdick. Apparently, he's a moron?

 

 

[Potatohead]

Hi Samson,

 

This is my first post to this forum....I have been lurking for a while...but after seraching for your topics and reading some of your posts I feel some affinity to your situation, although I do not agree with everything you say.

 

I am sure someone has said this before but it sounds to me like your mrs has suffered/suffering from PND.

 

I have also been on the recieving end of this situation and her behaviour sounds so similar to what I have experiance with my wife to an increasing degree after the birth of each of our four children.

 

PND it would seem can take a lot of differant forms....and it can last for years. In fact for me it seemed to peak about a year -18 months after the birth of our children...then it was a case of 3 steps forward and 2 steps back over the course of the next 3-4 four years (after our last child). You might ask how did we have four kids?....well it was not so bad after the first one....once again it seemd to get progressively worse after each child....third one was murder, forth one was hell on earth!!!

 

I really was against having our forth child. I will not go into the reasons of why I ultimately agreed to having a forth child....but when we were discussing it (if it could be called that) one of my objectiosn I brought up was that I really did not want to face the PND again....well....talk about defcon1....it was taken as a major major insult to her character (made worse when your wife has a ego like mine does..)...hmmmmm....it seems that some woman will not even accept the possibility that they could suffer from this condition. It would seem that the very mention of this condition brings up visuals of mothers drowning their children in cars.....of course this is extreme and in my case the PND was mostly directed at me...it takes a lot of differant forms and can include depression, anger, sadness, hate, seemingly uncaring or all of them bundled together in varying degrees. It also seemed cyclical, almost like really really bad PMS but she might only be free of it for a few days in a month.....gradulally over time those cycles/ or volitility free days would become greater after the peak at about 18 months.

 

Yes I have been in your hell, I have suffered bruises from being attacked for simply disagreeing a minor point, I have seen tantrums where there is literally a writhing body smashing things all over the floor. We lived separate lives for a time, I started drinking of a evening to ease the pain, slept in separate beds, took solace in chating on the internet... after the conception of our second child we did not have any kind of sexual contact for about 18 months.....(well not with her anyways...but thats another story).....after the forth child we went to the brink....I even had some external relations (I would not call them affairs since there was never any missunderstanding between parties about what we were doing and why). I even more or less told my wife what I had done during a fit of frustration about lack of sex......did not seem to bother her....just told me I should be ashamed of myself....interestingly we did have good sex the very next night....a rarity at the time!!!

 

It was fairly close to the end game when I stumbled accross a letter in the computer...I am not sure if she meant for me to find/read ...but they described her dispair...and her intention to escape as soon as was practicly possible...I think when I read this...it helped crystalise my understanding...I could not believe what I read...what she really thought.....it was then that I understood that without a doubt she was suffering from a form of PND. Some of the stuff she said was just not even close to being justified..I mean I know I was not perfect...but...WOW.... jezz it hurt to read.

 

And then we came back...

 

I am not saying that life is perfect now, but the volitility has subsided now to the extent I would call it normal married life lol. We have wonderful Children the youngest being four now....I guess for me the only real complaint these days is the imbalance in libido (I would love it 3 times a day if I could get it.....she could do without indefinitly....tho prolly about once a week these days...ARRRGGG I would kill for some more regularity!!! )

 

There is no magic formula to coming back.....I think it was more of understanding that this condition CAN last for a long time, it takes understanding even though it can at times be very hard...excruciatingly hard

 

I think the turning point for us was that just when things seemed almost irritrievable....I made a decision to put everything into our relationship (this actually occured BEFORE I found the letter...but it served to back up my thinking and resolve/at the same time I nearly gave up)....in my case the trigger was our aniversery, I gave her something that meant something to her and showed that I had taken a lot of time and care in choosing, that in spite of the hell we had been through I really did care....and we worked from there....it was that and TIME that turned things around....I think I was lucky in that I chose the right time to try to turn it around, choosing the right time I think is critical.

 

We never went to counciling...tho it was discussed....I do not expect my wife to have a job...having four kids is work in itself. She is the best mum a mum could be.....I think she still forgets to be a wife.....one day I might be asking for advice here ...I guess what motivated me to stay is my kids.....the fact that they are the most important thing to me......as well as my wife...fact is I have never stopped loving her even at her/my worst...at times I wished I could have stopped loving her.

 

I guess one of my wifes complaints about me is that all I care about is sex.....my comeback is simply, if that were true I would not still be here....

[BlockHead]

Potatohead

A woman like that will take years off your life.

I hope she is worth it.

[Delila]

Hi everyone this is Samson's wife and I thought it was about time I responded to what Samson has been writing. It seems that Samson has been telling you all half truths and some lies. I'm here to set the recored straight. We have had our problems and I will take responsibility for my parthowever let me tell you afew truths that he would probably not want you to know.

 

Samson has been FIRED from 4 out of 5 jobs he has had over the last 10years. Why? It may have somethingto do with not being able to get along with his coworkers. Might his uncontrolable anger have something to do with it? He has a Chem Eng. degree and an MBA but he can only find a job teaching 8th grade Math. If he had not lost so many jobs we wouldn't have had to go through our savings so fast . I took part time jobs to help out but he wanted me to go back full time. I felt it was just as important to be home with our small children too.

 

Samson has a tendency to lie to me as well. He has lied about his whereabouts when he has been out,having his parents visit when I was out of town (he had not seen or spoken to his parents in 7 years) , and many other times too many to recount. Many friends ,neighbors, and family have seen his anger towards me and others and asked me why I put up with it. I tell them because I love him ,we have 3 children that we both love and I want to make it work. Yes we have gone through counseling but so far haave not implemented whaat we learned.

 

I have a plan that I hopewill turn our marriage around. I don't know if he is willing. Lets hope so. By the way when he asked me to go to a festival he did it in avery offhand way. He gave me the paper and said "There's a list of festivals in April . See if ther is one you want to go to and let me know. " He asked me to a movie recently by saying "I'm going to go see that movie .Did you want to see it?" I really didn't take these invitations as asking me out on adate.

 

Would you ask a stranger out like that ? Then why would you ask your wife in that manner?Welll I could go on with so much morebut I won't except to say that our marriage counselor did diagnos samson with depression. He had a very bad relationship with his parents especially his father and this has contributed to his mental well being. Oout for now.

[Potatohead]

Originally posted by BlockHead

Potatohead

A woman like that will take years off your life.

I hope she is worth it.

 

This is a pretty dumb thing for a senior member to say.

 

However your probably right it did take some years off my life.

 

It is not a question of was "she" worth it....if it was just her then probably not.....quite obviously if she carried on like that before we were married/kids it would have been dumpsvill!!! .but then...I have found many people who feel that way about their spouse.

 

Is a famillly worth it...not just kids but the whole unit...yep definitly....for better or for worse....I was lucky the worse ended up being better again.

 

To Delila:

 

There are always two sides to every coin.....I can see anger in Samson's Posts...he is obviously bitter about certain things, although it seems to be that you have valid issues as well.

 

The hardest thing for people to do is to put themselves in the other persons position...if everyone could do that successfully then I guess there would be no missunderstandings. The other thing is to remember not to assume that everyone thinks the same way you do.....this sounds like a very obvious thing to say....but it is necessary to accept that people with the same information are not always going to draw the same conclusion....it is this that causes much conflict between spouses is non acceptance of this simple fact.

 

Some conflict in marrage is definitly healthy...It is the dynamo that keeps us on our toes....I am not a believer in heaven on earth (or heaven at all for that matter) I am however a beliver that f you sit on your arse waiting for heaven to find u then your going to wait a long time. Sometimes its worth making compromises in order to get closer to happier plain.

 

BTW I am pretty sure I understand why he asked you to those dates the way he did, he did not want to overcommit himself for fear of rejection....unfortunitly him asking the way he did was a self fulfilling prophercy. This situation can have a snowball effect and ends up only in one place. People hate being rejected ( I know cuz I get rejected all the time...hehe) its easier to stop being nice than face being rejected.....

 

Somehow u both got to break this vicious cycle.

[Samson]

I REALLY LIKE THE USER NAME: DELILA. GREAT, S!

 

Truely appropriate, especially if you know the story.

 

The details given in this posting leave me no doubt that Delila is who she says she is, and please respond, negatively (to me) or positively.

 

Here's your chance LS, to really show your stuff. Now Both sides of the story will be clearly available. I'd be more thrilled not to be the subject, but hey, it will be at least interesting to see the Avitar she chooses.

 

I would not characterise her post as much less than accurate. Nor would I chracterise my own post as "half truths" Or "lies" (with the possible exception of "Slapdick's" comments).

[moimeme]

Is it possible you're depressed? Men turn depression in on themselves and it becomes anger. And then they self-medicate.

 

Why don't you two make a pact; each of you will explore possible physical causes of your issues - and depression is a physical cause. Samson, if you did have that bad a youth, it will affect you throughout your life. The guys who try hardest to pretend they weren't affected are the ones who suffer most.

[Samson]

Oh yes, it is possible, Merry.

 

Did you read Delilah's post?

 

If so, you may conclude that most obsticles I've overcome.

 

Some I'm still dealing with. Certainly, it is a constant evolution. But I haven't "pretended" not to have been affected. I've not hidden it from anyone, including, obviously, Delilah.

 

I think it would be great to explore whether or not I (and her) might be clinically depressed. Good for the Gander, so to speak.

 

But my goal will be to eliminate the root cause, not mask the symptoms.

[moimeme]

But my goal will be to eliminate the root cause, not mask the symptoms.

 

That's a daunting task to take on, Samson. The hardest thing is figuring out exactly what the root cause may be. Sometimes we think it's one thing when it's actually something very different.

[Samson]

Yes; Other times we know what it is but don't want to admit it.

 

"Its" is not something I've pondered lightly.

[wideawake]

Yes; Other times we know what it is but don't want to admit it.

 

"Its" is not something I've pondered lightly.

 

I hope you don't mind me asking this, but what do you think 'it' is?

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by Samson

Now Both sides of the story will be clearly available.

 

As much as some of us would like to be, we are not licensed, trained counselors and the information we see on the board, albeit from both parties, is only a fraction of the information a true counselor will get from in-person sessions with each of you.

 

All that I can contribute is from my own experience. First I want to applaud BOTH of you for making the effort to go to counseling in the first place. That is something that you both should be proud of. Sometimes it takes a very long time to put into action the things we learn in counseling. It's not so easy to come out of the counseling session and really practice what you have learned. Each person has a different degree of difficulty with the same issue so we can't expect our partner to respond in exactly the same way.

 

I used to come out of counseling and expect my husband to behave a certain way because in the session he claimed he understood the concept and the details of the problem and exactly how it needed to be addressed. I would get so angry sometimes because he wasn't following through. It seemed so easy, so cut and dried, to me. It was like a person who only drinks a couple of times a year not understanding why an alcoholic can't just quit drinking, and an alcoholic not being able to explain and getting so frustrated that they take another drink. I finally understood when I was faced with a change that I needed to make and I struggled with it for several years and my husband would get frustrated with my inability to do something that he found easy. That was a very painful breakthrough for both of us.

 

 

I hope that you both do get complete physicals and find out if depression may be a factor, or maybe there is something else that is interferring with your physical ability to focus and act on the emotional aspect of your relationship.

 

It may sound strange, but one big factor that I wasn't aware of is my feet. I have some bone spurs in my feet and my feet always hurt. I have a very hard time finding shoes that I can wear. I'm used to it because its been that way all my life. What I didn't realize was that the pain that I tolerated was interferring in my ability to communicate with my husband. Why? Because the pain effected my sleep and it effected how patient I was with people in different situations. If I had to spend a long day on my feet I would come home and put my feet up or soak them and take a pain pill (which would make me groggy and lose focus) and that didn't help us to communicate. Or, if I was in pain I was trying to find a way to get off my feet or get some relief from the pain and that thought was running around in my head while we were trying to talk. There are just a million things that were effected by my feet! I didn't even see the pattern, but the counselor finally figured it out and we addressed the problem.

 

Now, we schedule our best talks while we are swimming because we are relaxed and we don't hurt. After we've done our exercises we just float around and talk. Or, after dinner I will soak my feet and relax and we'll turn off the TV and we will talk. We schedule our time around my feet! If I've had a day where I've walked a LOT and I know that my feet will be hurting a lot, then we will reschedule our talk time.

 

There may be some things that are going on with one or both of you that is interferring with your efforts at counseling. Check these things out thoroughly! Be patient with yourSELVES as well as each other. If you don't feel you have an effective counselor - find a new one.

 

Samson, it sounds like your wife would like to be asked out with some enthusiasm - she needs to know that you want to spend time with her and she doesn't want to feel like an obligation or chore.

 

Delilah, at least he is including you and that is a good first step. Don't ask for more then he is ready to give right now and accept the offer with your own enthusiasm.

 

Thats the only advice I can give based on what I know from your posts.

 

I DO wish both of you the best.