Was I a victim of "date-rape"?

[befuddled11]

I've only ever told this to my sister (and years after the fact), and to one guy I was in a relationship with. I don't think about it much, but I think that's mostly because I don't know what to make of it.

 

Back in 1990, when I was 22, I began dating a guy who was about 6 yrs older. I met him from a ball team I played on.

 

We had a relationship for about 3 months. Some of the details of the relationship are foggy, which is odd for me...because I'm the kind of person who remembers the details of past relationships.

 

I think we'd been seeing each other for a month. I was not the type to hop into bed with a guy, and was never "on the Pill" unless I was in a relationship.

 

I found him a little bit intimidating, because he was older, he came from a very wealthy "to do" family (his Mom was a judge, too). He was a little out of my league. His girlfriend before me was more his age (or maybe a little older), and this beautiful blonde supermodel type. I was very shy back then.

 

Anyway, though he was anxious for us to have sex, I wanted to wait until I felt more comfortable with him. There was "something" about him that caused me to not be able to totally let my guard down.....I just felt intimidated.

 

So...we were not having sex, I was not on the Pill.

 

One night, after a ball game (I remember this vividly, even where I was sitting)..we all met at the local neighborhood pub. I wasn't really in the "mood" to drink much that night, I remember that. I had one drink, around 7pm. That's all I drank over the course of a couple of hours.

 

Several of us, including him, left there and went to one of the bars. Now remember, I'd had only one drink up to that point. I was definitely not in any way intoxicated (I could drink a lot back then and it would take me a lot to get drunk). I remember he ordered me a drink. I had a Vodka, Club soda and lime. A few of the guys from our crowd, who were also on the ball team, were there with he and I, standing at the self-serve bar (a counter)......talking and watching people dance.

 

I don't know how long after, but I remember him telling me that he was leaving.....he was quite abrupt...almost angry. I remember feeling "funny".......I had absolutely no peripheral vision. I could only see "straight ahead"..everything to the sides was a blur. I remember going out to his car with him, because he was leaving and I wanted to leave with him. I remember sitting in his Fiero, outside the door of the bar, then realizing I'd left my purse inside (which was definitely not like me). I went back in to get it. Again, I had no peripheral vision.

 

I had had a total of 2 drinks over the course of about 4-5 hours. Not doubles, just normal "single" drinks.

 

I remember leaving the parking lot in his Fiero.

 

I don't remember anything from after driving out of the parking lot, to waking up the next morning by myself in my apartment, in bed, naked. I woke up not even remembering how I got home. I had no idea why I was naked. When I stood up and got out of the bed, I could feel something dripping down my leg (um, like cum). It was obvious I must have had sex. I was hysterical. I couldn't understand why I didnt remember anything. I did remember leaving with him so I had no reason to believe that it wasn't him that drove me home.

 

I was not a careless person...I would have never had sex unless I was on the Pill. Never. I had (and still do) a morbid fear of becoming pregnant outside of marriage (that ol' Catholic upbringing).

 

I called him up at work......my heart was racing. I asked him what the hell had happened, why I awoke to find myself naked, with my clothes strewn all over the house. I told him that it was "obvious" I'd had sex, but I didn't remember it....and I wouldn't have done something like that without having been on the Pill. I remember him getting angry with me......as if I were somehow "insulting" him for not having remembered having sex with him. I told him it didn't make any sense, I couldn't remember a thing, but I'd only had 2 drinks, I wasn't "drunk" so why was it that I couldn't remember? He got snippy with me and told me it wasn't him who initiated sex with me, that it was *ME* who initiated it......and he sounded all p*ssed that I was:

 

a) either accusing him of something (rape)

 

or

 

b) insulting him by not even remembering having sex with him

 

 

This was not in the days of Roofies (date rape drug, Rohypnol). I'd never heard of anything back in the early 90s that someone could slip into your drink to cause you to suddenly have vision problems and memory loss, lost inhibitions, etc. The only thing back then, I guess, was Acid..... Now could someone (he, or one of the other guys) have slipped Acid into my drink?

 

Luckily, I never got pregnant. I actually continued to date him even after this, because it just didn't make any sense to me, and there was no way I could conceive that he had put something into my drink to get me to sleep with him. I'd never heard of "date rape." I chose to forget that this had happened, mostly because I couldn't make any sense of it (of course after then, I never did have an "open drink" in a bar again) and likely also because I couldn't bare to think that someone I cared about would trick me into having sex. Hell, he was a "judge's son", afterall.

 

I will never know what really happened back then. What kind of drug could it have been? (back then in 1990)

 

I don't know if this all subconsciously bothers me or not........or has had some kind of impact. I guess it probably doesn't to the degree it could, mostly because I am just not sure what happened and because it doesn't "make sense" to me, I am better able to *NOT* consider the fact that I was raped.

 

Thoughts?

[Darkangelism]

Sounds like it to me. That sucks, he is a scumbag.

[jenny]

jebus, yes. i'm doing some research today to figure out what he used. rohypnol has been around since the late eighties, but it is unlikely that he would have access to it. i have known people to trick out nyquil with motrin for that passout downer; it's easy to do.

 

no wonder you are so angry - this is so awful. you are so strong to get through this. here is the thing: in terms of the standards for rape, if you were incapcitated enough to lose memory, there is a good chance you could not form consent.

 

do you want to do anything about it now? a lot of guys wander about using women this way; it's considered the get-free-by-loss-of-memory card by a lot of scum.

[befuddled11]

The thing is, I can't assume it was *him* who put something into my drink. It could have been one of the other guys. It could have been anyone.

 

I guess this "not knowing" and knowing I'll never know the truth, or WHO did what, that's what's caused me to get past it, or minimize what took place.

 

I can't assume that if it wasn't him who put something into my drink, that he was somehow involved or aware.

 

His reaction the day after, when I phoned him all frantic and confused...his reaction of "anger" and being "annoyed" with me....maybe it was because he truly had nothing to do with anything....and he thought I was insane for calling him up to ask if we'd had sex and to not remember anything. Maybe he thought I was a huge ditz and that's why he sounded so put-off with my call and questions. During that phone call, he told me that *I* had been "very agressive" in my desire to have sex with him. That didn't add up to me. I was horribly shy back then and certainly not very sexually aggressive or assertive. He made it sound like the reason I found my clothes strewn on the floor from the door into my apartment, to into my bedroom was because I was being sexually aggressive. Unless he was merely trying to cover his arse, knowing full well that i obviously didn't remember what happened, and he was trying to pin it all on ME. Unless the "drug" DID cause me to be very sexually aggressive, he would have had to be undressing me, piece by piece, from the front door to into my bedroom.

 

I don't know if I ever checked myself (the next day) for bruises or signs that I'd struggled. I was pretty naive back then, likely wouldn't have even thought of checking.

 

I guess it's just one of those things in life I'll never be able to figure out or explain.

 

I'm still wondering if there was some type of drug back then that could have caused all this.

 

And admittedly not knowing much about Acid (or anything), could someone dropping acid into my drink made me act/feel the way I did?

 

I will say, he was a guy who dabbled in occasional use of Cocaine, though never in my presence.

 

I guess I'm looking for answers I'll never find.

[moimeme]

It would be a shock to the system to discover that someone you had trusted had likely done something to you against your will. This may well be affecting you (not like you don't have enough bad stuff from your past to do that! ). I don't think rohipnol is a 'new' drug, but certainly people have slipped things into drinks long before 2K.

 

If you watch old movies or talk to your relatives, you'll hear about someone 'slipping someone a Mickey Finn' which is 'chloral hydrate in combination with alcohol; usually administered surreptitiously to make the drinker unconscious', according to hyperdictionary.com. Men drugging women into submission is not, unfortunately, a new aberration.

 

Befuddled, you certainly have had your difficulties. It's a real tribute to you that you're 'still standing'.

[befuddled11]

Originally posted by jenny

jebus, yes. i'm doing some research today to figure out what he used. rohypnol has been around since the late eighties, but it is unlikely that he would have access to it. i have known people to trick out nyquil with motrin for that passout downer; it's easy to do.

 

no wonder you are so angry - this is so awful. you are so strong to get through this. here is the thing: in terms of the standards for rape, if you were incapcitated enough to lose memory, there is a good chance you could not form consent.

 

do you want to do anything about it now? a lot of guys wander about using women this way; it's considered the get-free-by-loss-of-memory card by a lot of scum.

 

A few years after I was with him, I moved away, and heard he'd married the girl he'd gotten pregnant...who was sort of like an old highschool sweetheart.

 

I have no desire whatsoever to pursue anything legally. I can't even say I'm angry at him because I just don't know what happened for sure and I have no way of knowing if he was behind it or not. He'd never treated me badly, he'd never been majorly pushy about getting me to sleep with him (prior to this), well no more than any young guy who was dating someone and wanted to have sex.

 

I remember him being kind to me. I remember that a few months before I'd started to date him, as the result of my yearly Pap test, I'd been diagnosed with HPV....and that was also part of the reason I was reluctant to jump into bed with him....because I didn't feel it would be right to have sex with someone without "telling them" first...and I couldn't figure out a way, yet, to get up the courage to tell him. Though I do remember doing so (obviously way after the ?rape situation)....I remember I decided to write him a letter explaining the HPV thing......and I invited him to my apartment, I handed it to him and I went into my bedroom to wait until he'd read it. I was scared sh*tless that he'd never want to see me again. I remember him coming into my bedroom and hugging me.....and telling me not to worry, that it didn't bother him at all and it didn't change his view of me......and then to make me feel better, he took me out for a nice dinner.

 

I guess the reason I continued to see him was because I just wouldn't let myself think that he'd have done something like this to me. I guess I was just very much in denial, and back then I was at a stage in my life where I was rather insecure and it meant more to me to have a boyfriend than it did to be able to stand up for myself.

 

I once did a search online, on Rohypnol......and I couldn't really find any info to state it was available in 1990. But you say it was around in the late 80s?

 

As I said in my response to Dark, he used cocaine occasionally.....the crowd we hung out with was pretty much into partying.....but mostly pot and mushrooms.

[jenny]

ok. i totally trust your assessment of the situation. he seems good; and i know you to be stringent in your standards.

if you are still concerned, gather up up your forensic evidence from that time if you can. nothing prevails like DNA evidence.

 

 

side note:

 

rophynol is flunitrazepam, a common nervous system depressant; it's apparently pretty easy to mix up or mimic synthetically. (this info is second-hand) people in europe were using it like cows in the 70s, and it made its way here in the 80s, but really only for the club crowds. it eradicates memory, unlike alcohol blackouts, which sometimes allow flashbacks or 'slideshows'.

[befuddled11]

Originally posted by moimeme

It would be a shock to the system to discover that someone you had trusted had likely done something to you against your will. This may well be affecting you (not like you don't have enough bad stuff from your past to do that! ). I don't think rohipnol is a 'new' drug, but certainly people have slipped things into drinks long before 2K.

 

If you watch old movies or talk to your relatives, you'll hear about someone 'slipping someone a Mickey Finn' which is 'chloral hydrate in combination with alcohol; usually administered surreptitiously to make the drinker unconscious', according to hyperdictionary.com. Men drugging women into submission is not, unfortunately, a new aberration.

 

Befuddled, you certainly have had your difficulties. It's a real tribute to you that you're 'still standing'.

 

I remember Chloral Hydrate. That was a very common sleeping pill that was often prescribed for a lot of the elderly patients in hospital. Pretty commonly prescribed back then.

 

How would someone slip that into a person's drink? Did it come in a liquid form or something? If I recall correctly, the type we gave to patients was a longish reddish capsule.....a solid capsule. Maybe something like that would dissolve quickly in alcohol, I don't know.

 

I still vividly recall how I "felt" (suddenly) that night at the bar. My head felt light....like it didn't even belong to my body. I didn't feel sleepy or dizzy, but I do remember feeling similar to how I would feel if I was majorly drunk...that sort of "heady" feeling.....and that I could only see directly in front of me.......everything to the sides of my head (peripherally) was horribly blurred. I remember getting out of his car and going back into the bar to find my purse (I would have NEVER EVER let go of my purse of left it lying somewhere, had I not been in this state of mind)...and I remember walking by friends of mine who were standing outside the doorway of the bar......I wasn't stumbling. I dont remember finding my purse or getting back into the car after I'd found it....but I remember us turning out of the parking lot (it was dark) and going off the paved road of the parking lot, onto the gravel (this bar was in an Industrial Park type area).

 

I didn't feel hungover the next day, which you think you'd expect with any kind of "drug" that was put into your drink that would render you without the ability to "remember".

 

The only thing I wish is that I would have questioned it a lot more back then. I wish I would have told someone, so that at least they might have encouraged me to report it to the police. I just remember being horribly afraid for a few weeks after, that I would end up pregnant.

 

I'm not even sure why I thought of this today. I dont feel it bothers me, I can't say I feel "violated" (not that I'm consciously aware of, anyway)...because I think there's a part of me, still, that's in denial about what really took place.

 

If I was so "out of it" , then I guess I have to face the fact, regardless of whether he was "in on all this", that he pretty much had sex with someone (me) who was likely not very conscious...which is rather repulsive. Was I even able to walk up the 3 flights of stairs to my apartment suite? Or did he have to carry me? I dont remember feeling "sore" down there......I wouldn't have even considered the fact that I'd had sex if it hadn't been for the fact that I woke up naked to find that my clothes were all over the place (on the floor) and that I had gizm dripping down my leg. How could I have been "aroused enough" (wet) such that him sticking his penis into me wouldn't have been quite the feat....such that I'd have felt "sore" the next day? I'm very sensitive down there, that way.

 

Oh well, I guess I will never know the answers. I just wish someone could explain to me what kind of drug it was I might have had......if how I "felt" (my head, my vision, my lack of memory) sounds consistent with whatever type of drug.

[moimeme]

My understanding of a 'mickey finn' was that it was some liquid. I suppose they might have dissolved a capsule - or perhaps it was available in liquid form as well.

 

You work with psychiatrists, right? Is there a pharmacy where you work? Or perhaps you could call a physician or hospital just to describe the symptoms. You don't have to tell your story to them or anything.

[faux]

Originally posted by befuddled11

...I don't remember anything from after driving out of the parking lot, to waking up the next morning by myself in my apartment, in bed, naked. I woke up not even remembering how I got home. I had no idea why I was naked. When I stood up and got out of the bed, I could feel something dripping down my leg (um, like cum). It was obvious I must have had sex. I was hysterical. I couldn't understand why I didnt remember anything. I did remember leaving with him so I had no reason to believe that it wasn't him that drove me home.

 

I was not a careless person...I would have never had sex unless I was on the Pill. Never. I had (and still do) a morbid fear of becoming pregnant outside of marriage (that ol' Catholic upbringing).

 

I called him up at work......my heart was racing. I asked him what the hell had happened, why I awoke to find myself naked, with my clothes strewn all over the house. I told him that it was "obvious" I'd had sex, but I didn't remember it....and I wouldn't have done something like that without having been on the Pill. I remember him getting angry with me......as if I were somehow "insulting" him for not having remembered having sex with him. I told him it didn't make any sense, I couldn't remember a thing, but I'd only had 2 drinks, I wasn't "drunk" so why was it that I couldn't remember? He got snippy with me and told me it wasn't him who initiated sex with me, that it was *ME* who initiated it......and he sounded all p*ssed...

 

Assuming every word of this is true, you were, 100%, without any doubt, raped by this man. You were intoxicated, and therefore not legally able to consent to any form of sexual act. He claims that you were coming on to him, but any man should know that if a woman has been drinking she cannot legally consent to intimacy, no matter what she says or does.

 

This is rape. He took advantage of you when you were in a helpless state. This man, as DA put it, is scum. I'm sorry that this happened years ago. Had you only realized that you were raped and went immediately to the police, with the physical evidence, you could have prevented him from doing this again.

 

Also, so far as the raping is concerned it matters not who put something in your drink. It matters that this man was the one who raped you.

[befuddled11]

Originally posted by faux

Assuming every word of this is true, you were, 100%, without any doubt, raped by this man. You were intoxicated, and therefore not legally able to consent to any form of sexual act. He claims that you were coming on to him, but any man should know that if a woman has been drinking she cannot legally consent to intimacy, no matter what she says or does.

 

This is rape. He took advantage of you when you were in a helpless state. This man, as DA put it, is scum. I'm sorry that this happened years ago. Had you only realized that you were raped and went immediately to the police, with the physical evidence, you could have prevented him from doing this again.

 

Also, so far as the raping is concerned it matters not who put something in your drink. It matters that this man was the one who raped you.

 

I understand what you're saying, but I guess I still have the mindset now, that I had back then....and that's a mindset of: who knows how it all went down?

 

Say *someone* (not him) slipped something into my drink. Maybe some stranger walking by the he didn't know, his/our friends didn't know......and they did it for a "laugh" or to be sick, whatever. And say this "sustance" DID put me into a state of being sexually aggressive, though not being able to remember the next day what happened. I mean, maybe it was some type of drug (or substance) that made me super horny and aggressive....and if he had NO IDEA that someone had slipped something into my drink, and that I was "acting this way" for any other reason that I was "just abnormally horny/aggressive", how could I blame him?

 

I'd only had 2 drinks over the course of 4-5 hrs. Not even remotely intoxicated, ..plus I believe at the pub we'd first been to, the owners of the pub gave us pizza (for winning our ball game). I'm sure I'd have eaten a piece.

 

Maybe some think I'm in denial here. I'm not trying to excuse or defend him......but who knows what kind of "state" i was in once he got me home? Sure, maybe I was all "out of it" and groggy and clearly not able to consent to sex...but maybe I just acted all "drunk" and aggressive and horny and he thought I was wanting sex? If he truly didn't know someone had put something into my drink, how would he have known how I was feeling or what kind of "state of mind" I was in? Get what I'm saying?

[Tony T]

"I don't know if this all subconsciously bothers me or not........or has had some kind of impact."

 

Sure it's bothering you. It's bothering you a lot. Yes, it was date rape. All the evidence boils down to that. Yes, he is a royal scumbag and it's a tragedy that this happened. Yes, he is guilty of a felony crime but that statute of limitations has run out and/or there is no evidence still in existence.

 

Your only alternative is to acknowledge that sometimes in life there are things in our past that will never be resolved. If we get stuck there, we will stay there forever. I don't think you are stuck there but this is certainly something unresolved in your mind and it will always be unresolved unless you run into the guy and he admits to what he did. He was probably so high at the time he himself wouldn't remember.

 

If you can't put this behind you and move on, get counselling. I can't imagine many things worse in life for a woman to go through her years wondering whether or not she was raped. This is a terrible thing to happen to anybody. Get this behind you as soon as you can. My opinion is you are still greatly affected by this incident.

[Fedup&givingup]

Befuddled,

 

You were raped. This kind of rape can be very confusing, because of the circumstances. Something was put in your drink, a date rape drug.

 

The same thing happened to me when I was about 19 or 20. I was out with some friends at a frat party, and it was full of these "rich" guys, like you are talking about. I had a shot of tequila, and that was all I had had to drink. I remember it taking a very strong effect, and although tequila is a very strong liquor, the effect was very powerful. The next thing I knew, I was at some club with this guy....he got me in, although I was under aged. I remember the song playing, it was some song called Black Sheep, and it goes, "You can get with this, or you can get with that, you can get with this, cause this is where it's at" LOL. By no means is it funny, but the song is. I was staggering, and all from one single shot.

 

I remember him taking me to his apartment, and he gave me something to drink then. I don't even know what it was, but I was pretty OUT of it. The next morning, I woke up naked next to some strange guy in a strange place. I didn't even know his name.

 

I was soooooo ashamed and embarrassed, that I really didn't tell anyone. I ended up telling my mother (that's another story, and I'd rather not share why or how that came about-I'll e-mail you that!)

 

It wasn't until years later that it dawned on me that I was in fact raped, with a date rape drug.

 

The thing I find interesting, is that the type of guy that did this to you did it to me, although he was a stranger to me. The "rich" type that is used to getting their way.

[befuddled11]

Tony,

I really don't think it "bothers" me.....it's perhaps been a couple of years since I even thought about it. I guess it never dawned on me before that I could post on a place like this to try and make more sense of it.

 

I don't feel anger toward him, I remember examples of his past kindness to me.

 

The only reason I posted about this was because I'm an analytical-type person and there will likely always be some degree of lingering "curiosity" over what really happened. Like I said when I first posted, I wasn't aware that there were "date rape" type drugs back in 1990. I don't even think the phrase "date rape" had been coined back then.

 

I just have unanswered questions and thought that maybe someone here had gone through the same thing and could help me to understand why I felt the way I did. Why didn't I feel "groggy" or "hungover" the next day when I woke up? If he'd forced himself on me sexually, how come i didn't feel "sore down there" the next day?

 

It's really just curiosity, and many unanswered questions. I dont feel animosity or anger toward him because I'm not convinced that he had any part in any of this. I suppose if I wanted to know for sure, maybe I could try hypnotherapy someday.....maybe that would bring some answers? But more for curiosity's sake...not that I'm looking for anyone to blame. Of course I think rape is a horrid crime, but if he did play a part in this and his intention WAS to get me doped up in order to have his way with me, well, that's in the past and I don't think it's affected me because I've never really believed I was raped?

[Fedup&givingup]

It is one of those things where you didn't really have the option to say no, because you were incoherent. That's what makes you wonder if was actually a rape or not. It most definitely is/was. There was no violence involved or struggling because you were a vegetable. The whole thought of it to me is sickening.

[spencer]

1 He knew you didn't want to have sex with him. you made that clear.

 

2. it doesn't matter who drugged you.

 

2A. he proceed to have sex with you while you were unconsious, and unconsenting

THATS RAPE ....I would like to classify it as ' im a weak and worthless rapist.

3. he didn't deny having sex with you.

 

4. he didn't seem concerned that you were drugged unconsciously, and tried to blame you for comming on to him

 

5. he is a selfish and sick individual

 

I know you may be ok right now, but things come back to get us later in life.

you may have 'shut down' from this experience and be effected in other ways.

explore this when you are ready.

it sounds like now.

you are re evaluating the event and looking for a conclusion. once you are satisfied, that what happened, is what you suspected, you will most likely have to follow through with the dealing process.

 

I am sad for you, I know you will confront this head on.

be strong and allow yourself to sob uncontrollably.

you were betrayed and assulted.

im sorry he raped you.

[reasontosigh]

Originally posted by spencer

1 He knew you didn't want to have sex with him. you made that clear.

 

2. it doesn't matter who drugged you.

 

2A. he proceed to have sex with you while you were unconsious, and unconsenting

THATS RAPE ....I would like to classify it as ' im a weak and worthless rapist.

3. he didn't deny having sex with you.

 

4. he didn't seem concerned that you were drugged unconsciously, and tried to blame you for coming on to him

 

5. he is a selfish and sick individual

 

I know you may be ok right now, but things come back to get us later in life.

you may have 'shut down' from this experience and be affected in other ways.

explore this when you are ready.

it sounds like now.

you are re evaluating the event and looking for a conclusion. once you are satisfied, that what happened, is what you suspected, you will most likely have to follow through with the dealing process.

 

I am sad for you, I know you will confront this head on.

be strong and allow yourself to sob uncontrollably.

you were betrayed and assulted.

im sorry he raped you.

 

This says everything I would have said about this.

 

The only reason I posted about this was because I'm an analytical-type person and there will likely always be some degree of lingering "curiosity" over what really happened. Like I said when I first posted, I wasn't aware that there were "date rape" type drugs back in 1990. I don't even think the phrase "date rape" had been coined back then.

 

It hadn't, that I know of. If it had been me, I would have the same questions.