Author Eternal Sunshine Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 I agree with both of you as well. I really feel like LS does a disservice to ES, even those who hold her hand through the whole thing. The constant analysis - whether positive, negative or neutral - feeds her anxiety. She's scared and paralyzed... She has yet to make any progress, in all the years she's been here. She's got paralysis by analysis. If she were forced to deal with all of this on her own, I think she'd learn. I mean, it's not like she EVER takes anyone's advice. She posts and then disregards and does something impulsive. It's always groundhog day for her here... I have made progress. You are just discounting it. Remember my obsessive posts about unrequited crush on my married boss? I have come a looooong way since then. I haven't had any unrequited crushes since. At least I am attempting to make a real relationship work. My relationsips are lasting longer too, meaning that I AM learning something from mistakes I made in the past. Your comment is not really fair. Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 What do you want from life, ES? Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I don't know is a perfectly valid answer to that question, btw. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Eternal Sunshine Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 I don't know for sure... I do know that I want to be happy. I want to be content and at peace, with myself and others. Whatever that means. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Or all the attention this thread feeds a never ending desire for external validation. No question. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Eternal Sunshine Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Eh, no not really. I am not posting here to get attention - never have. I am genuinely scared and confused. I want to figure myself out. There are some very intelligent posters on here and they have been great help. I constantly ask myself things like "What would Kamille do?" I believe that a little bit of progress I have made was thanks to this forum. It's even worth the hassle of dealing with all the negative/biased posters. I just tune them out nowdays. It's sort of matter of luck what percentage of good/intelligent posters would post in my threads. I have been lucky with this one. I am genuinely invested in every word I write on here. I am so invested that I used to abonden threads as a coping mechnism and pages of my previous threads sometimes remained unread. Now, attention seeker would just fan the flames. I am also not enjoying any of this. At all. Those that believe that I am seeking attention: well just don't give it to me! Your advice is not helpful to me anyway, so I am quite happy for you to stay out of my threads. Link to post Share on other sites
Chocolat Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Hi ES, I have read this thread and I think Kamille has made great points, as usual, especially when she talks about your desire for your bf 10 be 100% in before you make even a 50% jump. Here's the thing: I think your bf is in love with you, or at least well on his way there. Where love for women is often words, in men it is more actions. And his actions show that he cares deely for you. One of the problems with having had a history of emotionally volatile relationships is that a steady one can start to look less passionate when that is not really the deal. The first problem is that emotional volatility does not equate passon -- it's about some other, crazy-making center in our brains being tripped. And it's wearing -- can you imagine being in a state of voltaility for years on end? Would you want to be experiencing that sort of on/off pattern when you had a family? A relationship that is steady can also be a relationship with passion. Your bf mentioned in his response to your email that his feelings deepen when he watches you sleep. That's pretty romantic stuff in my book and definitely not something that would be said by someone who is detached (or detaching) from you. Books and movies are filled with endless portrayals of romantic love that just "happens" to us, but the best love is one that is an action. From what you post, your bf is acting on his love. Finally, don't underestimate the value of caring for someone as a way to get his feelings to grow. No, I am not suggesting you pour your heart out to your bf, but signaling to him that your feelings are deepening will allow him the freedom to move forward with his own. You may think your insecurities are obvious to him (as well as what they are hiding), but I doubt this is the case. He may be worrying that you don't care for him as much as he does for you and that could be holding him back. Link to post Share on other sites
orangelady Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) I feel like he is pulling away already. Last 2 days, I was the one who initiated contact. Tonight he was supposed to let me know about tomorrow's plans and he didn't contact me. I actually deleted his number to resist the urge to ask him first. I am not going to contact him first about any of it, or for any reason and see what he does. He will most likely never contact me again. I really think you're overreacting. Because I used to be exactly like you. But it wasn't like that at all. Honestly, by reading your posts, if you don't mind me saying, I think that you're a very insecure person and if you go on like this, you're going to find relationships to be very difficult. You seem to need confirmation and assurance all the time over a very short period of time that you have known this person. I also think you obsess too much about having a bf and when you finally got one, you now obsess about him. Relax, find some strength and confidence in yourself, don't expect too much from men and you'll be fine... P.S Imagine if he knew you felt like this and is sharing it on a forum, the first thing that'll come to his mind is : She's insecure. Edited May 5, 2011 by orangelady Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 ES, I think you could benefit a LOT from therapy...but not therapy designed towards helping you with dating, but rather the effects of your childhood. Let's face it, you grew up with an overly critical mother who you always worried about letting down in one way or another, and who expressed disappointment in you. And yet, THAT is what you feel is real love. You grew up feeling that receiving love and feeling anxiety/unworthiness were inextricably linked. So it makes sense that you're drawn towards relationships where you feel the same anxiety. It's what you know. My issue was abandonment. I was abandoned by my father, and my mother wasn't really there for me emotionally. As a younger woman, I was drawn to emotionally unavailable men who I believed would eventually leave me too. Once I healed those feelings (well, you never completely heal, but you learn to recognize those feelings and deal with them), I was able to find a healthy relationship and felt quite comfortable in it. Link to post Share on other sites
Nexus One Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) He will most likely never contact me again. What I don't understand ES is that a woman with a PHD can overreact in such a way. Where is your rationality when you make such a statement? You know what the vibe is that I get from you? You're like a guitar string that has been set too tight, so that when you try to play it the tension is too high and it snaps. And as long as that is the case the music will not play. You need to mentally chill, you need to mentally relax and you need to let go and just don't give a f*ck. What happens happens. If the relationship tanks, it tanks. Just enjoy it for however long it lasts. That's how you take the tension of that string. Edited May 5, 2011 by Nexus One Link to post Share on other sites
blueskyday Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) I just got out of a relationship where the guy didn't do half of the sweet things your guy does...I was sooo insecure. My ex told me to relax but he wouldn't do anything that made me feel secure, either. Your guy does, though! My ex wasn't responsive, affectionate, verbal, etc...but the sex was amazing and he was tender then....so all my anxiety triggers got switched on... The point is, I see now that my anxiety was trying to keep me safe. Maybe this guy wasn't into me...or maybe this guy was into me, and I ruined it, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that I need a guy who is responsive, affectionate, verbal....beyond great sex...and it wasn't him... Like you, I also want a guy to be 100% into me so I feel comfortable falling in love. I don't want to repeat a past that includes chasing after emotionally unavailable men who don't give what I give....So my fear comes from a place of making sure I don't waste my time. Maybe that is what you are going through? But sometimes our anxiety gets its own wires crossed. Is it coming from the outside due to someone else's behavior, or the inside due to our own chronic anxiety (or combo of both)? In your case, I would guess the inside. Your BF is responsive, thoughtful, empathetic....good stuff! Please sit down and tell your BF your fears, but make sure you put them on you, not him....tell him you are working on them, but just want to him to be aware... I actually told my guy that I have trouble talking about my feelings, so now he knows when I clam up to reassure me that it's okay to share...He's doing his job, and it's my job to keep moving forward into a place of strength... If you want to have a real relationship, then you must be real and share that....your anxiety will go down... Nothing wrong with checking in with him when you are feeling insecure, and you are doing it in a very good way...but I don't see you noticing that he is responding in a supportive and caring way.... Edited May 5, 2011 by blueskyday Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I don't know for sure... I do know that I want to be happy. I want to be content and at peace, with myself and others. Whatever that means. How does that fit with real love? Or rather, where does the love you call real fit with that? Link to post Share on other sites
Kamille Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Again, agreed there. My parents made me and my brother the center of their universe. My mum bases all her happiness on me. When I broke up with the 5-week guy (when he dumped me) my mum cried for days. I was upset at the loss of that realtionship but I was even more upset that I have let my mum down. It's really hard that I know she has not had an easy life (abusive childhood etc) and I want to make her happy. Yet I am failing at that. She also wants grandchildren. She is not pressuring me but I see it in her eyes every time one of my friends has a baby or gets married. She wants this more than anything else in the world. It's such a strong subconcious thing for her that she doesn't realize the amount of pressure she is putting on me. I tried talking to her about it but she always keeps saying that she only wants me to be happy. It always ends in an argument. She is convinced that she knows better what will make me happy than I do. It's hard for me to be reasponsible for my mum's happiness. I have come to the point where I hide a lot of dating stuff from her because most things don't last and I don't want to get her hopes up. We talk every day and I lie about spending the night at home when I am really at bf's. I am not even sure if I want children at all. Yet, I would gladly have them if it meant giving my mum few years of happiness. Yes, to my mum success = husband + kids. No amount of career success means a thing. It's the opposite for my dad. So to keep them both happy I would have to have a) brilliant career b) H and about 3 kids. Wow. My mom does something similar. My sister and I both consider ourselves to be happy and successful. But for some reason, my mom cannot control her anxieties about us and convinces herself that we're unhappy. I have a few more questions, if you don't mind. Do you think your mom's "disappointment" is linked more to her own issues? It took me awhile, but I now see that my mom's anxieties about me or my sister are actually linked to her own perception of herself as somehow deficient. My mom is hyper-critical of herself and is convinced that she fails at everything. When she tells me or my sister we're not happy, she's in fact saying that she thinks she failed us. My mom is currently convinced my sister is unhappy (to my sister's dismay) and keeps asking me: "What have I done wrong?" As such, her anxieties about my sister aren't based on any real facts but on my mom's own anxieties. Nothing my sister could do could convince my mom sis is happy. (My mom has transfered anxiety to me on other occasions). Was your mom depressed at any point when you were growing up? My mom has been depressed for as long as I can remember, and, like you, I have that impulse of wanting to make her happy. The problem is that no one can be responsible for someone else's happiness and well-being. Depression makes meeting our depressed parent's expectation a moving target. It also flips the caregiver relationship. Generally, adults are considered responsible for the well-being of children, and not vice-versa. Those are my two questions for now. I'm still working through what it all has meant for me. But two things I have learned: 1) I am not responsible for my mother's happiness. 2) I do not have to take on my mom's anxieties as my own. I feel you're in the same situation, and I hope you'll be able to identify the moments when you're taking responsibility for your mom's happiness (or lack thereof) and identify moments when you're letting her anxieties about herself become your own. Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Eh, no not really. I am not posting here to get attention - never have. I still maintain that you are seeking external validation. Don't get me wrong: you have improved loads since I first read your threads. Formerly, you would say "he did X, therefore he's this, it's all over." Now you say "I am worried about this thing he did", which is a major change towards taking ownership. But you are still worried, and unsure, and still intrigued by the second-guesses of strangers based on the limited information they have from what you post. How about taking ownership of some of that too: perhaps next time you have a worry about something, sit down and think of several possible actualities. Write them down. Put them in a range of worst to neutral to best and see if you can think up at least 3 possible actualities in that range. This is, essentially, what people here are doing for you. That's the external validation. You ask people what they think, to see if what you think accords with their opinion. Over-arching this appears to me to be a desire to have definite answers for everything. To be right, or perfect, but based on hugely insufficient information. This is where fuzzy logic can be your best tool, and where quantum mechanics your worst obstacle. In quantum mechanics observation affects the observed. In life, analysis is the observation, and relationships are the quantum mechanics. By over-analysing, we affect the relationship. Fuzzy logic is your best tool. It makes predictions based on past behaviour, freeing up decision-making resources to deal with definite decisions. In life, we can predict how lover will behave, think and feel pretty much as they normally do in normal situations without having a web cam on their head or a mind probe to make sure they do and are. This frees up our energy to do other, more definite things, like relaxing, developing a hobby, planning the garden layout, or seeing the doctor about our slow bowel movements. So just as you said you don't really know what you want from life for sure, how about saying, I don't really know what he's thinking or doing, but he's probably much the same as normal and probably wants peace and contentment like I do. Of the three possible actualities I came up with, it's probably the neutral, middle one. And then you are free to spend your time and energy on something else, like baking a cake or watching a film, or getting to know and indulge your senses in the very simplest ways, such as having a massage or doing pilates or a course in flower arranging. Does any of this ring a bell for you? Edited May 5, 2011 by betterdeal Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Overall zengirl, I am 32 and I can honestly say that I have never been in love. So I have no idea what it's supposed to feel like. I have no idea if I am even capable of it. I agree with Kamille. The main reason why you aren't "in love" with this guy and weren't "in love" with 5 weeks guy is because : You're scared. You're doing it in this very thread. You're finding reasons to fuel your fear, reasons to justify keeping yourself at an emotional distance from this guy. Also, want to add: You can maintain safety and control or you can be in love, but you cannot do both at the same time. And did you ever think that maybe you being so closed off is part of why he's not crazy for you yet? Men have feelings too, and if he senses even 10% of what you're feeling here, I cannot blame him for not going 100% in. You really have to heal some of your issues before you can expect to feel real love. With this guy or any guy. Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 And don't be too hard on yourself. If you want more spontaneity, surprises, passion, weekends away, skinny dipping in the lake one Friday night, sex on the kitchen table, that sort of thing, some of the time, whilst maintaining the reliable, dependable, affectionate, gentle love most of the time, maybe find yourself a film that covers that and watch it with him, see if he gets the hint. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I think it's interesting how this thread started with "this is kind of bothering me" and has escalated to "should I break up with him?" even in spite of the positive, affectionate strokes your oblivious boyfriend has applied to your ego during its course. Nothing has happened ... yet, look where you've traveled. I wonder how he'd react if he were to read this thread? Also, I call BS on your claim that you don't post here for attention. I do believe that you may not perceive it that way, but sheesh, woman. You might be some kind of record holder for number of threads. Even when you are "absent" from these fora, you are still around in other guises ... "External validation" (synonymous with the way you seek constant, consistent attention, IMO) seems to be where it's at, for you, through and through. In all sincerity, I have to tell you that you cannot EVER win with that - there is not enough that anyone on this planet and beyond can provide for you to fulfill you. It's got to come from within - or it's not coming. At all. You could get that for yourself, if you were willing. Link to post Share on other sites
spiderowl Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I get the feeling that he does love you, probably is in love with you, but has been hurt in the past and is protecting his heart. He maybe doesn't realise how strongly he feels for you yet. What may have started out as attraction and a good move intellectually sounds like it's turned into more for him. Link to post Share on other sites
Ms. Joolie Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 See, in that text convo, I have again blatantly let my insecurities out. This is now second time this week. I went 2 MONTHS without acting insecure in any way and now this.... If I keep this s.. up he will dump me (which may be for the best). I think you should have a relationship slogan that says, "If I keep this s... up he will dump me (which may be for the best)". It's like the same kind of conversations seem to play over and over again in your head, and after a short period of time you automatically turn into an insecure, self-sabotaging, relationship nitpicker machine. It's like every relationship thread of yours is from your insecure, self-sabotaging, relationship nitpicking machine. You have to come up with a new way of being in your relationships. This old one isn't working. Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I've always wondered, why do you constantly change your avatar, and what is said avatar a photo of YOU 98.9% of the time? Link to post Share on other sites
johan Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I've always wondered, why do you constantly change your avatar, and what is said avatar a photo of YOU 98.9% of the time? Do you think it's another clue? Link to post Share on other sites
Nexus One Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Do you think it's another clue? A clue to what? Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Do you think it's another clue? Yes, I actually do. Link to post Share on other sites
Ms. Joolie Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 It says everything. Link to post Share on other sites
thehead Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I dig the heavy rotation personally. No mystery whats behind it. Link to post Share on other sites
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