This is kind of bothering me.....seriously :(

[Star Gazer]

Everyone gets to try.

 

And she has.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I don't think the sarcasm is really needed here. At least she's here trying to figure out what's going on. She could be mercilessly jerking him around. She's not mean spirited. Maybe just scared and a bit obsessive. But more than willing to try to change, which is the best anyone can do. And whatever she's doing seems to be working, because he really digs her.

 

 

 

Everyone gets to try. It's a birthright.

 

I didn't expect this of you but thanks johan.

 

It's much appreciated and a nice change from being beaten over the head constantly.

[eerie_reverie]

Yes. This relationship is great from every angle. I can honestly say that I have never met a guy who has treated me so well, who was intellectually compatible with me and is great in bed. He is so kind and gentle and sweet. He wants marriage and kids. He would be a great dad. He is stable, has a good job, owns a nice place.

 

The only thing that's missing is that feeling of fate, of being struck by lightening, a feeling that's so encompassing that nothing else in the world matters. And it's missing from his side and my side as well. Only he is more pragmatic than me. I am a hard core romantic.

 

I sometimes think that if he felt that way about me, he would be able to pull me in and make me relax enough to fall deeper. But instinctively, I know he really likes me and all, he is just not head over heels for me. And that's the subject of this thread.

 

I worry that somewhere down the line he wil find "IT" and cheat on me or leave me. I am scared that he will be one of those guys who is fond of his partner but not in love with her. Those fears make me want to bolt, as I don't want to deal with devastation that I see in my future.

 

Thanks for explaining, sorry I was so harsh on you earlier. I definitely identify with a lot of your fears - I think we all do. However, I think it's important to realize that being cheated on or abandoned are risks inherent in ALL relationships - even the ones that start with both people swept off their feet - and in my opinion, being with a GOOD GUY (or not) is more indicative of whether you are likely to be betrayed - not necessarily how said good guy feels about you.

 

After all, at the end of the day, cheating is a choice - to do something wrong. If you actually believe think love makes good people do bad things, that's an alarmingly screwed-up attitude.

 

Personally, I think your notions of love are immature and indicative of somebody who has been somewhat spoiled by life. I think if you actually had a couple of kids, you would be far more pragmatic, and value your boyfriend's stability a lot more than you're doing right now. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you would still be on LS at all hours of the day, writing about fate and lightening, but I have a feeling your concerns would be different.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with your relationship, or the way your boyfriend feels about you, or even the way you feel about your boyfriend. I think you need to figure out what exactly you're looking for. If you really think being repeatedly swept off your feet is the only thing that matters, then this might not be the right relationship for you. And sure, it's easy to accept being single forever, eliminating the risk that you ever get hurt, but what are you winning with that option?

 

Hasn't your life improved since you met your boyfriend?

Edited May 4, 2011 by eerie_reverie

[Eternal Sunshine]

You know what else? When we sleep in the same bed, I lay awake all night. I literally stare at the ceiling because I can not relax enough to fall asleep. I am so not used to having another person in my bed. I maybe get 1 hour of light sleep tops.

 

When I sense him waking up, I pretend that I am asleep so that he doesn't think I am weird.

[eerie_reverie]

You know what else? When we sleep in the same bed, I lay awake all night. I literally stare at the ceiling because I can not relax enough to fall asleep. I am so not used to having another person in my bed. I maybe get 1 hour of light sleep tops.

 

When I sense him waking up, I pretend that I am asleep so that he doesn't think I am weird.

 

And what is this supposed to tell us?

[Titania22]

Personally, I think your notions of love are immature and indicative of somebody who has been somewhat spoiled by life. I think if you actually had a couple of kids, you would be far more pragmatic, and value your boyfriend's stability a lot more than you're doing right now. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you would still be on LS at all hours of the day, writing about fate and lightening, but I have a feeling your concerns would be different.

 

 

Maybe then she would become me, posting threads about becoming addicted to certain people.

 

Having kids, doesn't automatically change our imbedded beliefs and patterns of behaviour regarding romantic love. I am still running the same program I was when I was 16yrs old, and this is the very first time I have ever really questioned it.

[eerie_reverie]

Maybe then she would become me, posting threads about becoming addicted to certain people.

 

Having kids, doesn't automatically change our imbedded beliefs and patterns of behaviour regarding romantic love. I am still running the same program I was when I was 16yrs old, and this is the very first time I have ever really questioned it.

 

Hm, maybe not. I don't have kids, so I have no idea.

 

But I do know that what do I have to protect, has already changed my values, compared to what they were before I aqcuired it - especially as those values relate to the kind of man I am looking for. I used to be as "romantic" as ES - not so much anymore. I can't imagine thinking about fate and/or lightening if I had someone looking up to/ depending on me.

[Titania22]

You know what else? When we sleep in the same bed, I lay awake all night. I literally stare at the ceiling because I can not relax enough to fall asleep. I am so not used to having another person in my bed. I maybe get 1 hour of light sleep tops.

 

When I sense him waking up, I pretend that I am asleep so that he doesn't think I am weird.

 

Don't let that disturb you ES, I always get the same way, it takes a while to get used to their presence enough to really relax and get a restful nights sleep. My last boyfriend, I actually had a panic attack my first night sleeping over at his place, spent the night on his bathroom floor. Didn't stop our relationship from lasting 2.5yrs.

[welikeincrowds]

And she has.

 

Not enough, apparently!

 

I agree with you, it seems ridiculous to believe that everyone on the planet has the tools to be in an LTR. The problem is that this is perceived as a failure....

 

I read a wonderful article by a healthy, bright, likable and functioning woman who simply decided to live alone. In fact, not counting her dog, she lived a life wherein she was capable of not seeing another human being the entire day. She was happier, despite the pressure, because solitude is where she found the most comfort. An extreme example, sure, but a charming one.

 

I think ES is as deserving of experiencing love as any of us here. Therefore I think it would be a disservice for her not to try her hardest to make it happen, and to that end it I think it would be a disservice to try and dissuade her from it.

 

ES is like many people (me too!) in that she is particularly skilled at being unhappy. She has had a lot of practice and knows all the tricks to make that happen. (She should read The Situation is Hopeless, But Not Serious. I think someone with her intelligence and sense of humor would find it enjoyable.) Meanwhile, she doesn't seem have much practice on the other end, to the point where operating toward happiness makes her uneasy, like playing in the other team's stadium. Still, fielding happiness and fielding unhappiness are very closely related skills that can be honed independently. If she's so good at using her brainpower to find unhappiness, I have little reason to doubt that she would be just as adept at finding happiness with the same tools.

Edited May 4, 2011 by welikeincrowds

[Titania22]

Hm, maybe not. I don't have kids, so I have no idea.

 

But I do know that what do I have to protect, has already changed my values, compared to what they were before I aqcuired it - especially as those values relate to the kind of man I am looking for. I used to be as "romantic" as ES - not so much anymore. I can't imagine thinking about fate and/or lightening if I had someone looking up to/ depending on me.

 

I don't disagree that having kids changed many things about the decisions i make and my values. Absolutely! And I am definately not free to galavant around the country, or take off to another part of the world for a wild romantic adventure. But having children doesn't automatically mean I lose the desire for such things. If anything the fact that I am not free to take off any time I choose, makes me desire it even more.

[OliveOyl]

Growth sometimes happens in quantum leaps, instead of gradually. And I think ES has made a big quantum leap with this relationship, and everything is going so well, she's afraid that she won't be able to maintain this new "state" of relationship and will fall back into her old pattern. Sort of like how electrons leap to a new orbit but could fall back into the old orbit. (Or something. My recall of chemistry & physics is rusty.)

 

I think you can do it, ES, you've been building up to this point, and yes you are afraid you're going to slip back into old patterns of undeserved-ness, and you might for short periods of time, but you've made a huge step and you will never slip completely back to where you were before in your ability to "have/deserve/create" in relationships. I say, congratulations on how far you've come. And I mean that seriously.

[nothappyjan]

Interesting points. My bf ended up dumping me after a year because he wasn't 'crazy in love' with me. Our first 3 months it was all roses and sunshine and then it started to fade for him. I still really loved him and my feelings grew over time. He would always say its important we don't be impulsive, we'll take our time and spoke of the future but it always hurt when he was honest about not having the crazy feelings for me.

 

Then one day he breaks up with me out of the blue because he decided he needs those crazy feelings. I wish i had left the day he told me he loved me but just not crazy for me.

[Nexus One]

ES, I absolutely agree with you; you should break up with him. That way, you can get into another obsession where you'll feel more within your comfort zone. And he won't be wasting all of his kind, sweet, affectionate, sexy, thoughtful, attentive, intelligent efforts on a person who is only bound and determined to find fault with all of it. There are piles of wonderful women hoping to find a man like that who would appreciate him very much.

 

It would be a win/win.

 

A normal, healthy relationship requires two normal, healthy people to be in it.

 

Not everyone is meant to be in a relationship.

 

Yeah, yeah, we get it now people. She's impulsive, over-analyzes till she drops, is obsessive, perhaps has a taste for drama, but she has shown in this thread that she does know these things about herself. When she was still posting as Ocean Girl I did not see that realization in her posts, so in my opinion she's progressing regarding that.

 

Yes - MM_C. I am now out of my comfort zone so to speak.

 

I am within my comfort zone when I am depressed and single or when I obsess over someone that doesn't want me or when I go on endless meaningless dates.

 

But normal relationship? Nope. The only way to return to my comfort zone is to sabotage this thing.

 

I think that when this ends, I will write off relationships and dating all together, for the rest of my life. I am just not made for this and I am also not going to go through months/years of therapy hoping for some radical personality change.

 

It's just so much easier to make peace with being single.

 

And become an old cat lady spinster? Not gonna happen ES. You seem too flamboyant and diva for that.

 

I don't think the sarcasm is really needed here. At least she's here trying to figure out what's going on. She could be mercilessly jerking him around. She's not mean spirited. Maybe just scared and a bit obsessive. But more than willing to try to change, which is the best anyone can do. And whatever she's doing seems to be working, because he really digs her.

 

Everyone gets to try. It's a birthright.

 

My thoughts exactly. ES's behavior stems from fear, not mean spiritedness. And she is progressing in my opinion, both in terms of personal growth and with her new relationship as this one seems a lot better than the previous one.

 

You know what else? When we sleep in the same bed, I lay awake all night. I literally stare at the ceiling because I can not relax enough to fall asleep. I am so not used to having another person in my bed. I maybe get 1 hour of light sleep tops.

 

When I sense him waking up, I pretend that I am asleep so that he doesn't think I am weird.

 

More people have this problem. I know of a couple in a healthy relationship that sleep in different beds in different rooms for this reason. The guy is a professional sportsman, they cannot afford it for him to have sleepless nights, it would destroy his career. Hence they solved it that way.

 

According to research it is often men that have sleep problems when they sleep in one bed with a woman. Most women actually tend to sleep better with a man in their bed.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Nexus One

[A O]

Yeah, yeah, we get it now people. She's impulsive, over-analyzes till she drops, is obsessive, perhaps has a taste for drama, but she has shown in this thread that she does know these things about herself. When she was still posting as Ocean Girl I did not see that realization in her posts, so in my opinion she's progressing regarding that.

No, she isn't progressing, she's in a holding pattern - a dysfunctional twilight zone that at best, will frustrate any man who gets close to her, at worst, create an army of bitter and twisted men! And she will stay this way for as long as she has a willing audience to vent to and lean on.

 

My thoughts exactly. ES's behavior stems from fear, not mean spiritedness. And she is progressing in my opinion, both in terms of personal growth and with her new relationship as this one seems a lot better than the previous one.

Her behavior, her fear stems from unresolved childhood issues. That is a fact! There is nothing that anyone here can do about this as evidenced by the years she's been behaving this way. That's years, not just months or weeks - years!!

 

At best, what people here are doing is akin to helping a drug addict manage her every day affairs more smoothly, but allowing her to stay addicted. What needs to be done is to rid this person of the habit altogether. That is not happening here. She is in a holding pattern, stuck in a twilight zone of drama and frustration thanks to many well-meaning but ultimately misguided posters. And the worst thing about all this are the guys who she will suck in and spit out of her dysfunctional supernova.

 

What she needs is professional help and that is the direction we all need to encourage her to take.

 

 

.

[oaks]

I am now out of my comfort zone so to speak.

 

I am within my comfort zone when I am depressed and single or when I obsess over someone that doesn't want me or when I go on endless meaningless dates.

 

This is good. Getting out of your comfort zone (especially given your description of what is within your comfort zone) sounds like exactly where you need to be. Push those boundaries!

[Nexus One]

No, she isn't progressing, she's in a holding pattern - a dysfunctional twilight zone that at best, will frustrate any man who gets close to her, at worst, create an army of bitter and twisted men! And she will stay this way for as long as she has a willing audience to vent to and lean on.

 

Her behavior, her fear stems from unresolved childhood issues. That is a fact! There is nothing that anyone here can do about this as evidenced by the years she's been behaving this way. That's years, not just months or weeks - years!!

 

At best, what people here are doing is akin to helping a drug addict manage her every day affairs more smoothly, but allowing her to stay addicted. What needs to be done is to rid this person of the habit altogether. That is not happening here. She is in a holding pattern, stuck in a twilight zone of drama and frustration thanks to many well-meaning but ultimately misguided posters. And the worst thing about all this are the guys who she will suck in and spit out of her dysfunctional supernova.

 

What she needs is professional help and that is the direction we all need to encourage her to take.

.

 

I haven't been long enough on this board to be able to conclude that. ES strikes me more as a very emotional woman, but she's far from the only one on this planet. She's afraid things go wrong and she wants everything to be exactly perfect all the time. So it could be perfectionism that is driving her impulsiveness and it could be her fear that is driving her over-analyzing and obsessional behavior.

 

It's possible that that makes it seem like she has a taste for drama, but without knowing her, I couldn't say that. For that to be true she'd need to get a kick out of drama and purposefully ignite drama and enjoy it. Women like that exist, but again, without knowing her one can't just conclude that.

That's why I give her the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn't be trying to help if I knew for sure that she gets a kick out of all the drama and is sitting with a gloating troll face smirk on her face behind her computer enjoying all the attention over it.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Nexus One

[mr.dream merchant]

I haven't been long enough on this board to be able to conclude that. ES strikes me more as a very emotional woman, but she's far from the only one on this planet. She's afraid things go wrong and she wants everything to be exactly perfect all the time. So it could be perfectionism that is driving her impulsiveness and it could be her fear that is driving her over-analyzing and obsessional behavior.

 

It's possible that that makes it seem like she has a taste for drama, but without knowing her, I couldn't say that. For that to be true she'd need to get a kick out of drama and purposefully ignite drama and enjoy it. Women like that exist, but again, without knowing her one can't just conclude that.

That's why I give her the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn't be trying to help if I knew for sure that she gets a kick out of all the drama and is sitting with a gloating troll face smirk on her face behind her computer enjoying all the attention over it.

 

Sounds like me. :/

[betterdeal]

And what is this supposed to tell us?

 

That she's quite nervous and alert?

[A O]

ES strikes me more as a very emotional woman, but she's far from the only one on this planet. She's afraid things go wrong and she wants everything to be exactly perfect all the time.

Incorrect. What she displays most often is what is known in this business as 'self-sabotaging' behavior. Its core is a fear, a discomfort, a loathing of oneself. The roots of this can be found in her childhood where she would have been raised to feel close to worthless. The goal of self-sabotage is to keep people from getting too close to them, from seeing, from discovering what they (ES in this case) were raised to believe - that they are worthless.

 

Self-sabotage manifests itself through the creation, endless creation in most cases, of drama - of seeing any given relationship situation (and prior to all this it used to be zillions of dating situations, remember folks) as a chance to end a budding relationship, thus avoiding someone potentially getting too close to them and therefore seeing them for what they "think" they believe they are. And that's their single biggest worry, being seen for what they "think" they are.

 

On top of this is the creating of drama just for the sake of it simply because it was the environment they were brought up in therefore feel most comfortable with.

 

The only way to deal with self-sabotage is to attack its root cause - how someone views themself, what they "think" they actually are. The 'thinking' needs to be addressed, it needs to be modified - that is what a health professional would do, and more pertinently as far as this place is concerned - that is not what she's getting here. Folk here tend to address each situation, each issue as it arises without tackling the underlying issue, the cause that leads to so many issues developing in the first place. There are a few exceptions to this but nowhere near enough to effect the sort of change that's actually needed.

 

That's why I give her the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn't be trying to help if I knew for sure that she gets a kick out of all the drama and is sitting with a gloating troll face smirk on her face behind her computer enjoying all the attention over it.

Rest assured, she and people like her do not get any joy out of this. They are usually the products of a pretty tough and dysfunctional upbringing.They are misguided but they can be nudged in the right direction with the right sort of help.

 

 

.

[betterdeal]

I think, ES, that it might be a good time to apply some lateral thinking. Of the posts I've read of yours, I see a theme of anxiety and unnecessary worry and negative conclusions, that often turn out to be unfounded. These are perceived threats as opposed to real threats to your wellbeing. I don't know if this is particular to romantic relationships or if you are like this in other areas of your life, but it can't be enjoyable to be frequently worried. The good thing about perceived threats is they are not real, so if you can find ways to perceive fewer things as threats, you can improve your happiness.

 

For me, yoga has proved a great way to clear my mind, have an hour or two in which I am not thinking about things, and improve my physical self too. CBT also helped to counter negative thought cycles, and I read a new self-help book once a month or so, as this tends to reinforce the positive thinking needed to replace the negative thinking. I soon found that I was so used to discussing my problems and fears out of habit, and that I had a bit of a gap to fill when I decided these discussions were habitual and holding me back. Shortly after that realisation I took this gap to be an opportunity to do more enjoyable things, like gardening, rowing, cycling, yoga and the like.

 

What I think I'm trying to suggest is that addressing the specific concern you had when you started this thread may not be the best use of your time, per se, and, instead finding things (other than your relationship) that you can enjoy and will make you feel good will help you to have fewer of these worries. So try yoga, CBT, other activities that are positive, challenging, interesting, enjoyable and not dependent on your relationship. It will probably make your relationship more enjoyable as a bonus.

 

You're a bright, inquisitive, sincere, affectionate, attractive and meaningful person. You can let go of your perceived fears and put your defence mechanisms to one side, and let more of the real inner you out into the sunshine.

Edited May 4, 2011 by betterdeal

[blueskyday]

ES, I am so much like you. I really understand how much fear is driving you, and yes, it probably comes from your past...like it does for us all.

 

First of all, thank your fears. They can keep you safe. The trick is to see if those fears are based in reality. This guy is doing everything right, so I would say your fears are unfounded at this time, but you still feel them so you are scared.

 

What really helped me was to tell the guy in my relationship what was going on with me in real time.

 

It works like this:

 

HIM: I think relationships should be based on compatibility, not love at first sight....etc...

 

YOU: Hearing you say that makes me feel ______(scared?), because ____(I want someone to be crazy about me.)

 

Say how you feel. Say the "because" part because that will help uncover and express your needs and wants.

 

I will tell you that your anxiety will go away if you are honest. The guy I am with completely accepts that I am scared of intimacy due to my past. He is sweet and also thinks my craziness is "adorable."

 

But, I know that the security I'm looking for is impossible. It is possible, however, to make sure the guy I'm with has the qualities to be a good partner.

 

We don't want to make bad choices and waste time. Your boyfriend feels the same way. I think the things he has said to you are said to defend his own sense of safety and security. Often, when we are hurt, we do the opposite the next time we are faced with the same situation....it's like collecting data about what works and doesn't.

 

It's a bit like being the ball in a pinball machine. We can go from one extreme to another, landing in the middle eventually.

 

It's a journey. Simply by seeing yourself clearly, you ARE transforming yourself. It's like magic....So, deep breath, take time before you express, but always feel your reaction and try to understand where it is coming from...

[mitchell]

Too much togetherness and too much sex (5 times a night??) too soon. Things that burn this bright and hot often burn out quickly.

 

He's playing it cool with his pragmatic approach to relationships. He knows he's on the verge of getting burned by you. Slow things down and spend some more time apart. Let him think of you more as a love interest instea of lusting for you throughout the night

[Mme. Chaucer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mme. Chaucer

ES, I absolutely agree with you; you should break up with him. That way, you can get into another obsession where you'll feel more within your comfort zone. And he won't be wasting all of his kind, sweet, affectionate, sexy, thoughtful, attentive, intelligent efforts on a person who is only bound and determined to find fault with all of it. There are piles of wonderful women hoping to find a man like that who would appreciate him very much.

 

It would be a win/win.

 

I don't think the sarcasm is really needed here. At least she's here trying to figure out what's going on. She could be mercilessly jerking him around. She's not mean spirited. Maybe just scared and a bit obsessive. But more than willing to try to change, which is the best anyone can do. And whatever she's doing seems to be working, because he really digs her.

 

 

 

Everyone gets to try. It's a birthright.

 

I wasn't being sarcastic.

 

Sorry, but I cannot STAND the complete absence of accountability shown in ES's approach to this situation.

 

It's NOT RIGHT to USE another human being.

 

The man involved is in a relationship ... with ES. A REAL relationship involves taking a hugh risk. If ES is not willing to be in that place, taking that risk, with this particular person ... even though she IS there (I mean, she is not "casually dating;" she is enacting an intimate and serious relationship with this boyfriend), I feel that she is using him and dehumanizing him. The only thing that matters is her "feelings."

 

Many people have suggested that she look at the (FACT) that "crazy in love" does not equal, or have much to do at all with a "real" relationship. She does not acknowledge these posts at all. Just carries on "proving" that her boyfriend does not love her like she needs to be loved.

 

If a person is just looking for the thrills, then they have NO BUSINESS playing at being in a relationship with another person who is showing all the signs of being in that place. I think it's base.

 

I've been in this place with this poster before. If the pattern holds, I will be accused of "taking his side." I am not. I am taking the side of honesty, accountability, being true to oneself.

 

If the pattern plays out, it's likely that either she will drive him off or get him so cornered that he cannot do a thing right. The relationship will end badly, and she will complain about all the "bad advice" she got here.

 

Even if the relationship were to ultimately end on amicable terms, she would be full of blame about the pain she was suffering, when she "knew all along" that he was not madly enough in love with her.

 

So, I am dead serious. She should break up with him. OR, accept her discomfort with his analytical approach to the idea of "love," accept him as he is, work through the difficulties, and be in a relationship. Which she has not even addressed in this thread.

 

Most relationships do not lead to eternal bliss. They are hard ... it is very scary to put oneself out there in emotionally vulnerable territory. I think we are ALL painfully aware of this and those of us who are trying for a REAL relationship struggle with it almost every day. If a person cannot deal with the risks involved, they should not torture other humans with their own toxic insecurities. That is my deeply held belief.

[Star Gazer]

You know what else? When we sleep in the same bed, I lay awake all night. I literally stare at the ceiling because I can not relax enough to fall asleep. I am so not used to having another person in my bed. I maybe get 1 hour of light sleep tops.

 

When I sense him waking up, I pretend that I am asleep so that he doesn't think I am weird.

 

You may be weird but THIS doesn't make you weird. I have the same problem when in new relationships, even when intoxicated when it's normally really easy for me to fall asleep. I have complained to several girlfriends, and they experienced the same thing. I experience the same problem even if I share a hotel room and separate beds with a girlfriend.

 

This has to do with your comfort level sleeping with another person in your bed, nothing more... It's not a relationship issue. I promise.

[ASG]

You may be weird but THIS doesn't make you weird. I have the same problem when in new relationships, even when intoxicated when it's normally really easy for me to fall asleep. I have complained to several girlfriends, and they experienced the same thing. I experience the same problem even if I share a hotel room and separate beds with a girlfriend.

 

This has to do with your comfort level sleeping with another person in your bed, nothing more... It's not a relationship issue. I promise.

 

Yeah, I have that problem as well. Even sharing a room with a girl friend sometimes has me up all night.

With my ex was horrible, cause we both suffered from it. We got better with time, but once we were appart for a couple of months and sleeping together was again a nightmare.

A couple of times, in the beggining of our relationship, he fell asleep and proceded to nudge me off the bed. I laughed for a good half hour (and luckily, the bed was on the floor, so even if he had succeded, I wouldn't have "fallen".