Micheal Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 ever see a scitzo to them everything they see is true but to us nothing but whos to say if he thinks it and sees it does its exist in the universe and then is it right to diimiss there truth?? yeah that was me Link to post Share on other sites
Micheal Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 u the astral dude???that was me muhahaha Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Originally posted by Micheal ever see a scitzo to them everything they see is true but to us nothing but whos to say if he thinks it and sees it does its exist in the universe and then is it right to dimiss it as crazy I'll take your word for that. Link to post Share on other sites
Micheal Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 are u religous???and if so wtf were asking about astral plane for?? Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Originally posted by Micheal are u religous??? Yes. and if so wtf were asking about astral plane for?? I seek the truth. Thank you, Master. Link to post Share on other sites
Micheal Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 haha ,noone is ever master when it comes to things like this just students..good luck..hope u find what u r looking for? thx for the ?S though made me think , im toking ,last word of advice to see truth u must see from all persecptives,Drugs,hehe but not too many on some then youll see the crack head pesctive =) Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 If God is a loving and forgiving God, then why was it necessary for Jesus Christ to die for sins that are forgiven anyway? If you look at sin as being a device that puts distance between us and a God who loves us, and you place Christ in the role of a kind of mediary, say like a parent who does his/her best to smooth the way for a child so that child doesn't face hardship -- but you have the added dimensions of spirituality and eternity, maybe his crucifixion makes a bit more sense as a ransom for us. Jesus's desire was to remove that physical obstacle (sin) that blocks the relationship between man and God, and that meant offering him self up for everyone. It was necessary for him to die so that death -- spiritual death, in which there is a possibility to sever oneself from God even in the afterlife -- would be conquered. Tony, you cite from the prayer, the Our Father, where we plead with God to "forgive us our sins as we for give those who sin against us" -- I take this as something temporal, something that affects our daily life and us needing constant reminding and assurance to live right by others. Jesus's death transcends the here and now because it deals with the eternal spiritual aspect of our relationship with God, not just the day to day stuff ... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tony T Posted April 11, 2004 Author Share Posted April 11, 2004 Different people, different cultures, different religions see good and bad in different ways. They often define what is good and bad in highly contradictory terms. Therefore, who is in charge of defining good and evil? Who defines what is sin? Even the Catholic Church defined eating meat on Fridays a sin forty years ago...now it's completely acceptable. What gives? I think if we see all of the world in terms of God, rather than in terms of good and evil goings on, we come closer to being Gods ourselves. If we see God in everything from the retina of our eyes outward and from that point inward then there is nothing but goodness and forgiveness. Where those two exist in unison, there is no sin. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetbilly Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Tony, man's original sin was trying to be like God which eventually leads to destruction. Thus, the need to simply obey Gods word. In a way, there is a part of us that is similar to God, (our sprit, because whether in hell or heaven it lives forever) but it dosen't make us God. I would like to clear-up a common misconception, it's not about being "good or bad", all have fallen, it's about who you're with. Anything not of God is of Satan and thus will be destroyed. So it is very important to fully understand all the little neuances of scripture and not to dismiss any part because it dosen't coencide with personal desires or beliefs. But when you're with God nothing can stand against you. Gee dyer, I'm almost proud of you. You made some very acurate, and intelligent statements. But I would have liked to have seen you answer all his questions. Don't be shy on account of me! Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by sweetbilly Gee dyer, I'm almost proud of you. You made some very acurate, and intelligent statements. But I would have liked to have seen you answer all his questions. Don't be shy on account of me! Although I'm not really vying for your approval, which question didn't I answer? Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 As I said before, question 6 requires a personal interpretation of the Bible that I don't subscribe to, so the question wasn't applicable. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 I've asked those same questions Tony, and I've never been able to find a satisfactory answer. Each preacher I've asked comes up with text from the bible and then tells me what it means. They all say something a little different - depends on which branch of christianity I ask. The differences in interpretation are all over the place so how can I trust in the original text? I don't. Who knows what mental filters were operating when the bible was written and then translated. Sometimes I think it would be nice to believe in something - some higher power, but I just don't. It doesn't make any sense and if looked at from sociological and anthropoligical standpoints religions are man-made. Still, if so many people can believe in something after all these years -- maybe there IS something to religion. But which one is accurate? There isn't enough room in any of the popular religions to accept that there may be other Gods and other Heavens. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Hokey, why is accuracy a neccesity? Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by dyermaker Hokey, why is accuracy a neccesity? Because if one religion is accurate that means that the others are false. Doesn't the christian bible say something about that god being the only god? I was told by different preachers that Budha, and whatever other so-called dieties were not real at all and that there is only one god (the christian god). So, which is it? Is Budha the only one? What about some of the others gods? Link to post Share on other sites
sweetbilly Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Hokey, i sure hope you take the advice of someone who was in your shoes 4 short yrs a go (ME). There is a personal answer for you and everyone else on earth, but you have to first be broken enough to recognise that you know nothing. Then open-minded enough to look for an answer with all your heart, and all the while being determined to find the right answer not some human derived translation. Finding the answer is not something that can be done with the mind, it has to be done with the heart. "seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you" these weren't just words he really meant it. If you really want to find God you must yearn for it, seek to do the right things by him (this is the definition of true faith), And believe that Jesus was who he said he was. By doing this, you will fulfill every commandment God gave, develop faith, find your answer, and become saved all in the same instant. Then your world, just like mine, will open-up in a way you could have never immagined. But to do all of this takes a contrite, willing, open, heart. I swear on my soul if you will do these things you will find an answer (provided by God himself). Then you will see all the things I have seen physical, scripturally, and emotionally, and you will never doubt again. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetbilly Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Hokey, now you're on the right track. Now, prove it to yourself by trying to prove all religions wrong with physical science, philosopy, or any thing you can think of ( this is not somthing God will disaprove of), and in the end I guarantee there will be only one belief that cannot be disproved. This will be the one true faith. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 sweetbilly, its people like you who prompted me to ask questions and led me to my own light -- there is no god. nothing you have said, or that anyone has said, has proven the existence of any diety. T.H.E.R.E. I.S. N.O. G.O.D. That is my truth. Now, quit ringing my bell--I'm not answering the door! LOL Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Who defines what is sin? By extrapolation, anything which contravenes the Two Great Commandments: Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew 22: 36-40 http://www.biblegateway.com Hokey, I did a review of world religions for an essay once. I discovered, to my amazement and delight, that when you boil every religion down to its most basic elements, you end up with the two exact same principles; acknowledge some sort of Divinity and be good to your fellow humans. To me, the fact that these two truths transcended eras, populations, and distances proved without a doubt that they must be truths and that Divinity/Essence/God/whateveryouwannacallit inspired messengers right around the planet to deliver these truths to the planet's inhabitants. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by sweetbilly Hokey, now you're on the right track. Now, prove it to yourself by trying to prove all religions wrong with physical science, philosopy, or any thing you can think of ( this is not somthing God will disaprove of), and in the end I guarantee there will be only one belief that cannot be disproved. This will be the one true faith. This is terrible advice. Sweetbilly, the Bible is not a science textbook. I've asked you a question before, that you could not answer. Doesn't this mean that your religion is wrong? Primarily, there are TWO creation stories. They CONFLICT each other. Two contradictory things cannot coexist as truth, unless their meaning is not literal. For example, in Genesis 1, both sexes are created from God's will simultaneously, in Genesis 2, God puts a sleep on Adam and makes a woman for him out of his rib. How can this be? Was Genesis 1 a lie? Was Genesis 2 a lie? I know the answer to this question, but it doesn't come from using the bible as a history or science book. Want some science? The sun is older than the moon. Stars have no age, some are older than earth, some are younger. So there you go, your entire faith is wrong. If you want to believe that Genesis isn't a transcription of Elohist, Yahwist, Mesopotamian, and Babylonian myths and folk tales, that's perfectly fine. But it's a LOT easier to 'disprove' your religion using science, whereas disproving Buddhism is impossible, because Buddhism isn't even a religion, it's just a way of thinking and living. Link to post Share on other sites
Happened By Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 How about two extra questions: - If God is just, why would he make a person pay for the crimes/sins of others? - If a just society is a good society, how can a group of people believing that they are pre-forgiven for their sins, contribute to a just society? Thanks for your time. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 why would he make a person pay for the crimes/sins of others? He doesn't 'make' anybody do anything. People exercise free will; sometimes in their exercise of free will, they harm others. This is sin. That you are the victim is not God's fault; He would have had it otherwise. If a just society is a good society, how can a group of people believing that they are pre-forgiven for their sins, contribute to a just society Per the posts above, one is not 'pre-forgiven for sins'. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Originally posted by Happened By - If God is just, why would he make a person pay for the crimes/sins of others? Jesus wasn't being forced to pay for the sins of others. He is a divine human who willingly took on the sins of all of us so that we may be saved. - If a just society is a good society, how can a group of people believing that they are pre-forgiven for their sins, contribute to a just society? This is one of the reasons that I, along with catholics, don't believe that merely accepting Jesus' forgiveness is enough to acheive salvation. We must also do good works, to realize our preexisting grace, and accept God into our lives--basically allow ourselves to do God's will. We're not preforgiven for our sins, we merely have the option of asking for forgiveness. But beyond this crime and punishment attitude, we also have a responsibility to do God's work on Earth--which is contributing to a good (just?) society. Link to post Share on other sites
Happened By Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Dyermaker, so did Jesus make a mistake when he offered himself "willingly" based on your reply to my second question? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
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