Why does no one else think strip clubs are just plain WRONG???

[onemoralgirlwhocares]

It is just one way that women are taken advantage of by their men. And it is just one more way, if you are a guy, that women can take advantage of you. Because you men are such suck ups when it comes to trashy women, and they can get your money, that your decent woman you choose to have for a partner, wouldnt take advantage of you to get. It hurts decent women who wouldnt use men that way, when their guy lets themselves down to that level.

[dreaming4ever]

Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!!

Finally some women are backing me up and agreeing with me!! YAY! I especially agree with how guest said ...

 

"There is a big difference in looking at women at the beach etc. and going to a place to pay a woman to grind on you. Women at the beach don't come up to your So, get nude or in a g-string, grind on them, put breasts in their face, and put 'other' things in their face. That's not fantasy. That's a real live woman doing things to you. "

 

EXACTLY!!! It is SO completely CHEATING!!!!

[zarathustra]

It is SO completely CHEATING!!!!

 

 

I don't think we should expand the meaning of "cheating" to include all sexually oriented male behavior of which a partner disappoves.

 

If everything's "cheating," then nothing is. The term is stripped of serious meaning. We should avoid negative emotive language inflation (eg, the overuse or misuse of "holocaust" and "genocide" in political debate).

 

If a guy jerks off to porn and visits a strip club, he's perhaps showing disrespect to his partner (assuming she has made him aware of her strong disapproval of these male recreational activities beforehand)--but he's not cheating.

 

I would reserve this term for the real thing: a partner's emotional and or sexual relationship or conduct with someone outside the marriage. A strip club can never be the "other woman." Only another woman can be the "other woman."

[dreaming4ever]

But zarathustra,

Why can't the woman who is grinding up and down my boyfriends legs and shoving her nastiness in his face be considered the "other" woman? This is CLEARLY disrespectful behavior and unlike porn it is done IN person, with actual touching...that's bad enough if you ask me! How is that NOT cheating? Cheating doesn't necessarily have strict boundaries, especially when touching and arousal is involved.

[amerikajin]

Well, in a strict sense, it depends on the intent. There are some hardcore perverts who go to a strip club and spend their paychecks trying to pick up trashy women at these places. But in the case of a few young 20-somethings going out for one last hurrah before marriage, it's not that at all. I doubt they even get off. It's more or less something to do as a goof.

 

I've visited strip clubs before, though I haven't done it in probably a good four or five years now and have no desire to go wasting cash on it anytime soon. Truth is, whenever I went, it really was only because other people invited me. I've just never gotten the urge to go spend $50-100 on chicks I don't know - especially when I can get the real thing for less. And sometimes, nothing beats good ole fashion self stimulation. I'm never worried about whether my right hand's having a good time, although lately my sex drought has been so bad people are beginning to call me Popeye the sailor man.

[Guest]

Also, if the fantasy isn't about having sex with these women, what is it? Are you fantasizing about them doing your laundry?

 

To me it's a way for a man to cheat but justify in his mind that he didn't because he paid for it. My husband lied to me, went to a strip club, and recieved lap dances. He said afterward he did feel like he cheated but it apparently didn't cross his mind for the three hours while he was there.

 

I can't tell you how it has hurt our marriage and the trust we had. Just the thought of him paying a woman to do those things to him sickens me.

 

My friend's sister is a stripper. I know the sort of things that go on.

[amerikajin]

I see your point, guest.

 

I somehow forgot to say in my last post that I don't think it's a good relationship builder (visiting strip clubs, that is) - for the same reasons that looking at porn isn't. I stopped visiting strip clubs because I started dating my ex-fiance. When we first started dating I was upfront and told her that I visited strip clubs on occasion; she was upfront in telling me that she wasn't too keen on that. So I stopped. Simple as that. It's about respect. I think that when you're in a serious relationship, it's important to keep that part of your life reserved for your lover. Otherwise, you cheapen your relationship.

 

I guess I was referring to the last hurrah thing at the bachelor party. I think that's one situation in which a spouse can "look the other way", provided the guys behave themselves and don't take it further than necessary.

 

Boys will be boys.

[Guest]

I don't see why it would be a part of getting married either. If you need that last wild night, your whole attitude won't change just because you marry. You need to feel like you can only be with one person in a sexual nature before you even consider marriage.

 

I didn't feel like I had to have a taste of a few other men before we said our vows. I had my single time and that was when it was appropriate.

 

I've seen a few women go nuts at their bachelorette parties and I thought the same thing about them. They weren't ready for marriage. Will it be okay if your future wife needs a last night with other men before she vows her life to you?

[dolphinsunshyn]

Originally posted by UCFKevin

Flirted with?

 

If she knew he had no money on him, she wouldn't even LOOK at him.

 

Personally, if I'm not taken to a strip club on my bachelor party, I'll be pissed as all hell at my friends.

 

It's not cheating. Cheating involves physical and/or emotional intimacy. Making out. Foreplay. Intercourse. None of which happen at a normal strip club. I'm talking JUST a lap dance.

 

I think you have some trust and self esteem issues.

 

Kevin makes a good point. The woman who strip are doing it for the money. They are not interested in taking your man. They are just another guy holding a dollar. They don't do anything THAT physcial with them either. If it does happen, it is because the right guy has offered enough money to the right girl. Who, by the way, doesn't mind loosing her job. Most clubs have strict rules against any heavy physical activity.

 

Really, it is much more innocent than you make it sound. I used to have the same kind of sterotypes about the clubs. With age, I have become much more open-minded. My girlfriends and I started to go to the clubs and it can be a lot of fun. It is also a great place to meet guys! LOL If you go with a boyfriend, it can also spice up things in the bedroom, too. They REALLY like to think about the "girl on girl" fantasy. Even if it is as innocent as you going and just watching. It put the idea in his head and serves as a big turn-on for him. Many strippers will cater to other women in the club. When I go, I usually get more lap dances than the guy - for free. LOL No - I don't swing that way, it is just good entertainment.

 

As far as what he is thinking about when he come home to you, I doubt he is thinking about the stripper. If anything he is probably thinking about you and the stripper together- LOL If you are sexy and confident inside and outside of the bedroom, it should not pose as a threat to you. Yes, there are always going to be more attractive girls, but he CHOOSES to be with YOU. Relax, be open-minded, self-assured, and confident. That is going to be more of a turn-on for him that any stripper will ever be!

[UCFKevin]

Doesn't matter what you say, doll, she's not going to listen to our logic.

[moimeme]

It seems that if your mindset is 'all strippers are skanky whores' and 'just looking at a naked woman means you would prefer schtupping her to me', then only rarely will reasoning work - but it does sometimes. At least a few women who came here ranting and raving about this stuff listened when we told them their assumptions were mistaken and changed their ways of thinking. So it's not impossible. They have to be willing to believe that maybe their assumptions about what's going on in the minds of their men are wrong, though.

[zarathustra]

But zarathustra,

Why can't the woman who is grinding up and down my boyfriends legs and shoving her nastiness in his face be considered the "other" woman?

 

That's the extreme example, and it's of great use in your counter-argument. Perhaps the definition of cheating can be reasonably expanded to include the solicitation of sexual/emotional intimacy and/or erotic stimulation from a non-spouse whether sought and received in exchange for "love" or money.

 

I still believe that in a strip club, the guy, to be labeled a cheater, has to do, or receive, much more than eye candy. I'm talking intimate physical contact that results in sustained sexual arousal.

 

Perhaps the wording is unimportant. If the conduct is a deal breaker, it's a deal breaker.

[UCFKevin]

Damn skippy, Zara.

[confused88]

Gotta agree with UCFKev on this one! But with some caveats.

 

Looking at other women and fantasizing cheating? NOT@!@!! You can respect your woman and your long term relationship without becoming a monk or unich. Once in a while (once every six months) a group of us guys will visit one of those clubs (MANY MANY here to choose from). The woman there are almost not real - they have a fantasy type look (silicon, high heels, garters) and it is all about the visual!! We don't get lap dances, we mostly joke around and talk about the girls. Would I be upset if my wife visited the Chippendales show? NO - I trust her and have confidence in our [color=orange][font=times new roman]passionate love. [/font][/color]If she can go with her friends (on rare occasion) and laugh and smile, more power to her!

 

The "Strip Club" industry here in [color=red]Vegas[/color] is Big. Everyday I read news about corruption, Crime Families, and Police raids on major clubs in town. My neighbor (upper middle class neighborhood) worked at one of the clubs. She is a fantastic person and my wife and I have her over for dinner occasionally. She has really shed some light on what goes on at the clubs and what the typical girl here is doing there. According to her, most of the girls there are supporting some kind of destructive habit (drugs, addictions, etc), or are bipolar to the extreme. She tells us that only 10% have a goal in life, are level headed, and are really using the money for future plans. Th girls see the guys there as $$$, and nothing more. In her club there had only been 4 cases of sexual contact between customer and dancer - 3 by the same girl. I'm sure there is more - but the point is, they are not thinking about sex just $$. Metro Police raid her club at least once a week looking for drugs, inappropriate behavior, etc. She admits it's depressing, but she makes a lot of money (she can't believe how much some poor saps are willing to pay her). I'm not sure if she is in the 10% that are level headed, but she is a nice person and my wife considers her a friend.

 

I'm sure some of the creepy guys there are perverts, but it's a group of guys sharing 1 hr on rare occasion (we more often like to go hiking, play soccer, or at most have some beers and talk about future plans). Added to this I spend most of my time with my wife - but guy friends are important (as are her girlfriends).

[Bill]

I believe going to a strip club is cheating. Anyone in a relationship that goes to a strip club IS a cheater. I have been invited to many of these, and all I denied. To experience something of a sexual nature with someone other than your partner is cheating, plain and simple. I feel bad for the partners of the people that do this, they deserve better.

 

Be faithful.

[zarathustra]

Damn skippy, Zara.

 

 

I know, kev. Do you consider an hour with a hooker to be cheating? The hooker is all business--she has no designs on her John's heart--just his wallet. So she gives him a BJ in exchange for $150. Has the John cheated, ie, been unfaithful? I think so because he has sought sexual arousal and release with another woman in private.

 

Would a reasonable wife consider her husband's purchase of a lap dance cheating? I think not.

 

Would a reasonable wife consider her husband's purchase of a BJ from a hooker cheating? I think so.

 

The difference: the lap dance is public spectacle , and the goal is to arouse, not bring to orgasm. The BJ is private , very participatory, and the goal is to stimulate the man to orgasm.

 

Cheating, then, involves private sexual activity with another woman that results in arousal to orgasm. Lap dances are public spectacles, not sex acts.

 

That's the difference.

 

Thanks for pushing me, kev.

[Fedup&givingup]

Originally posted by amerikajin

I see your point, guest.

 

I somehow forgot to say in my last post that I don't think it's a good relationship builder (visiting strip clubs, that is) - for the same reasons that looking at porn isn't. I stopped visiting strip clubs because I started dating my ex-fiance. When we first started dating I was upfront and told her that I visited strip clubs on occasion; she was upfront in telling me that she wasn't too keen on that. So I stopped. Simple as that. It's about respect. I think that when you're in a serious relationship, it's important to keep that part of your life reserved for your lover. Otherwise, you cheapen your relationship.

 

I guess I was referring to the last hurrah thing at the bachelor party. I think that's one situation in which a spouse can "look the other way", provided the guys behave themselves and don't take it further than necessary.

 

Boys will be boys.

 

AMEN. The most profound thing you just said is one of the most simplistic things in saving face in a relationship. IT'S ABOUT RESPECT. It's about NOT doing something if it really bothers the other person, period. Some things leave no room for compromise. Some things pose a delicate, touchy situation.

 

Let's face it, when in a committed relationship, what COULD the compromise be on going out to a strip club? It's not like compromising on which movie to go see, or which sofa to buy. YOU JUST DON'T DO IT. It could lead to no good, and it creates problems.

[dreaming4ever]

THANK YOU BILL!!

Finally a guy that agrees with me!

[Guest]

Strip clubs aren't there for 'just looking' anymore. Strippers don't make money that way. They make money off of the tip rail, from lap dances, or from sitting with you.

 

Tip rail stories: Stripper taking money from guy's head with her, uh, let's just say body. Taking money out of guy's mouth with breasts.

 

Sitting with customer: Sitting in his lap. Sitting beside him with her hand on his thigh.

 

Lap dances: Stripper kissing on guy's neck. Breasts touching face. Other things in face. Grinding until stimulation and yes, sometimes orgasm (some will tell a guy to put on a condom beforehand). Why do they put a towel between you and her?

 

These things can and do happen according to how strict the club is and the stripper. The touching comes down to what the stripper is willing to do and mutual touching does happen at some places.

 

Mix alcohol, horny guys, and friends agging it on and it's asking for trouble. There are still plenty of strippers that will do more than what I've listed for the right amount of cash.

 

I see nothing faithful in any of this. If your girl was giving the lap dance, I bet you'd totally change your mind about what's cheating.

 

I'm not sure if you can give links here, but there is a MB where guys talk about going and what goes through their mind. It doesn't match the answers here.

[zarathustra]

AMEN. The most profound thing you just said is one of the most simplistic things in saving face in a relationship. IT'S ABOUT RESPECT. It's about NOT doing something if it really bothers the other person, period. Some things leave no room for compromise. Some things pose a delicate, touchy situation.

 

The bottom line is don't do anything that's going to wreck your marriage--whether it's porn, poker or prostitutes.

 

Know before you marry what the permissible range of conduct will be. If it's too narrow or restricting for you, DON'T marry the person. She won't change you, and you won't change her.

 

Life is too short.

[confused88]

Right on the Money Zara!! If already married then talk and respect each others wishes, and keep communicating!

[meanon]

Yes the distiction between the public and the private is important, but the distinction between physical contact and just looking is the more significant one for me.

 

Strip clubs aren't there for 'just looking' anymore. Strippers don't make money that way. They make money off of the tip rail, from lap dances, or from sitting with you.

 

Just looking is not that common any more. There is physical contact in the exchange of money on the dance floor - the more money, the more contact.

 

I'm not sure I personally would class it as cheating but it's blurring the line.

[johan]

My perspective:

 

I've never had any use for strip clubs. I don't like the idea of a woman selling me the right to check her out naked. I'm damn sure not going to give my money away like that.

 

I like to hang out with friends, and I might go if they really want to go. But to be honest I have a LOT more fun playing pool or something.

 

If I'm single then I tend to want to hang out where I actually have a chance with the attractive women I see.

 

If I'm dating someone, I don't like the idea of how it would make them feel if they knew I went. Regardless of how gorgeous my girlfriend happens to be, that's an easy way to make her feel insecure and wonder what's going on in my head. And I'm not sure what to make of a woman who wouldn't get a little upset about it. What does that mean? I mean how often do you run across someone that secure? It's more likely she just doesn't care or doesn't have the energy for it. Or she actually does resent it but she is just storing that up. Who needs the hassle?

 

I'm not quite selfish enough to run my girlfriend through the "you need to be more secure so I can go to strip clubs" wringer. Like she's really going to see it my way. These things build up in a relationship, and I really need to keep some room in the account for all my other shortcomings.

 

My girlfriend satisfies me visually, physically and intellectually. She's a challenge emotionally and we're working on communication. But I don't need to hang out with any other naked chicks.

[Fedup&givingup]

Originally posted by zarathustra

The bottom line is don't do anything that's going to wreck your marriage--whether it's porn, poker or prostitutes.

 

Know before you marry what the permissible range of conduct will be. If it's too narrow or restricting for you, DON'T marry the person. She won't change you, and you won't change her.

 

Life is too short.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[zarathustra]

I've never had any use for strip clubs. I don't like the idea of a woman selling me the right to check her out naked. I'm damn sure not going to give my money away like that.

 

I'm in total agreement.