Why does no one else think strip clubs are just plain WRONG???

[faux]

I'll have my say now.

 

I don't like strip clubs. I don't see the point of going into a place, sitting down and watching half naked, or fully naked, women dancing around. Most of them aren't even really all that good at dancing, to tell you the truth. Sometimes they don't even really look all that great. Looking at naked women gyrating actually, for some reason, does not get me turned on. Maybe I'm defective, but the whole strip club thing never did anything for me.

 

I don't think they're evil, or wrong however. Strip clubs are entertainment that a lot of people like. Also, one of my exes, and another one of my friends, danced in a strip club and I don't think they're bad people at all.

 

Originally posted by: chrissy4534624

 

...and to the guys who said seek professional help, i will...right after u admit that 99.9% of u get turned on my the trashy girls that work at the strip clubs...the other .1% are just gay.

 

I am not gay. Then again, I'm not entirely heterosexual either. I'm only turned on visually when it comes to watching movies of people engaged in sexual acts. Even then I have to be somewhat in a mood beforehand.

[chrissy4534624]

HAHAH inability to hold a relationship...why cuz i choose not to be with my x? that means i cant hold a relationship? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ok if u say so, i'm always the dumper not the dumpee and that's because i'm just too smart for bull****...maybe u're wife likes to be fed crap but where i came from we don't put up with it.

 

 

 

u found me out Oh my gosh ...i'm a bitter angry feminist and my qualifications to judge every man is based upon the fact that i'm just so damn cool so ...shut up...thanks:)

[Bill]

Originally posted by chrissy4534624

HAHAH inability to hold a relationship...why cuz i choose not to be with my x? that means i cant hold a relationship? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ok if u say so, i'm always the dumper not the dumpee and that's because i'm just too smart for bull****...maybe u're wife likes to be fed crap but where i came from we don't put up with it.

 

 

 

u found me out Oh my gosh ...i'm a bitter angry feminist and my qualifications to judge every man is based upon the fact that i'm just so damn cool so ...shut up...thanks:)

 

 

I can only tell you what I am. I do agree that most guys WOULD go to a strip club. I know they would. I am telling you that I would not, and I have denied it in the past.

[Pyrannaste]

Originally posted by Dug

This is recurring topic, and as I have said before......I nor would most guys tolerate a dik teaser on a date, or the office, so I do not like strip clubs for that same reason. On the other strings, I also recall several women who defended their men and even go along to these clubs. This seems cool, until the once hot 25 yr old wife has a baby....stretch marks....spider veins in her legs and hemroids the size of hotdogs, or if not the hemmroids, then the unsexy C-Section scar. That is the point where the boys night out loses it's appeal for the wife......but he is still gonna go and all but a few women will feel intimidated because the strippers are near physically perfect by comparison. Welcome to the real reality show.

 

Loved this post.

It reminds me of something I told my boyfriend once.

"I don't have a problem with porn because you treat me like I was as beautiful as those naked ladies, and I feel that any time you'd rather have real sex with me than look at them. Expect me to start having issues when I get older if we get married, but you can be sure that if when I'm 50 you can still look at me as if I were as beautiful at the girl in porn pics I'll keep not having problems with you looking at them".

Something like that.

[InmannRoshi]

I don't like stripclubs because I think many of these girls are trauma survivors and acting out, and I don't really see them as sexual objects. It makes me feel like a predator to have some coked up 19 year old grinding on my lap. Plus, they are trained con artists, so I have a hard time letting my guard down enough to relax and have a good time. The last time I was in one, probably 7 years ago, it was as the best man for a friend's bachelor party. The best man is supposed to be the Master of Ceremonies in these situations, and I got in trouble with the dancers because they claimed I was being unresponsive. Besides, everyone knows the bachelor party isn't for the groom-to-be, or even his rowdy single friends ... the bachelor party is for the married men, because they get away from the ball and chain for a night. Its the married men who always take the night too far, because they've been beaten down by their wives to the point where they want to act out.

 

And yet, even though its not my thing, I think 99% of the time its harmless fun. It just provides an atmosphere to get rowdy.

[Bored1735]

dreaming4ever I agree with you I think its wrong....

 

yup thats all I had to say...

[purrrsephone]

In reading over this thing, I noticed several things that just don't gel with me too well. So I have this to add or put out there...

 

I'm a young female. An artist. Polyamorous. Bisexual leanings, mostl into men. Not TOO heavy a drinker. I live three blocks away from a strip club and I'm a regular there. I've lived in Toronto for two months and it's one of only two places I can say I'm a regular at. And I see no shame in admitting that.

 

I personally (and I understand this doesn't reflect the view of all the other patrons, let alone a majority of them) go to appreciate good music and the beauty of the female form. I've never classified sex, sexuality, or nudity as something "bad." I don't see anything wrong with watching a beautiful woman sway and twist to a good song with her clothes off. I think it's very beautiful to see a woman being sexual...and I think that commanding an audience with the way she looks and moves is a matter of owning her sexuality, not exploting it. It's a good place to socialize, too. The club I happen go to has a small but friendly wait staff--all female, all fully clothed and never necessarily provocatively--and they're all very nice to talk to while popping in there. So are many of the dancers.

 

Ahh, the dancers. "Dirty sluts," right? All of them? No better than prostitutes? Just perfect little Barbie dolls without a single thought in their head? That's total bull. There are three things people generally decide about exotic dancers that tick me off. That they have no feelings, that they're immoral or promiscuous, and that they're stupid. None of those are true. First off, these girls are human beings with real jobs. They might not be in a suit and they might not be behind a desk all day, but it's a job. They make money for a service they're doing, just like pretty much any other job. What they do IS an artform, in my eyes; it's dancing just like someone who is in a ballet or a stage show. They're usually constantly moving the whole night, whether it's onstage, they're making the rounds, or doing private dances. They work their butts off and really do earn the money they make. So there's no reason why anyone should look down on them or what they do. They have feelings, they have self-esteem just like the rest of us. They're people just like everyone else you meet--never made more evident to me than the night just a short time ago where some regulars, dancers and I threw a birthday party for one of the other dancers at the club that night. As for the second myth, I can cite a friend of mine at said club--who is a very good and close friend in the club and out--who just got married. She's married. She's been with the man for a long time and has been with no one BUT that man. And in talking to her at the club (where I originally met her but had known of her in other respects for some time); she felt no need to hide the fact that she was involved with someone exclusively and that she loved him to death. To add to that, several of the other girls I've talked to or heard about are married, involved, and/or have children. None of them date patrons. None of them do anything but dance and flirt with patrons. Last, but not least, these girls are dumb. No, no they're not. The way the private dance system goes at this club, $20 gets you three full songs' worth of time with a particular girl. She takes you over to a private booth, talks with you for one full song, dances with you for one full song, and then talks with you for the last song. Some other girls alternate between dancing and chatting for all three songs, but the former situation is generally what you get. I, myself, have had dances before, and not just with the friend of mine who works there. In talking to these girls, all of them are fun and interesting, well spoken, intelligent women. I've talked about philosophy with one...science fiction with another...alternative modelling...politics...the idea of family and home...religion...relationship ethics...and ALWAYS talk music, which is one conversation I've never met a dancer who couldn't hold her own in. A few of the girls are either currently enrolled in university or have just graduated, and are looking for a way to make some extra money until they've gotten the job they went/are going to school for. They're smart girls, believe it or not. And if you don't have any faith in their academic smarts (and I say this mostly with sarcasm), they're smart enough to make several men a night think that they're in love with them, even if it's just for five minutes. Maybe not the most honest trick in the book, but hey, you have to admit that it takes some skill.

 

Now for the issue of "Is going to a strip club when you're involved cheating?" I say no, and I'll break it down as to why. I don't see people being as worked up at the thought of a guy sitting and watching as they do a guy getting a lapdance. So the element of ire and jealousy here is the lapdance. To me, the lapdance generally consists of three elements: nudity, sexuality, and social interaction. I don't know too many people who would be angered if their S.O. went to an art gallery to see nude paintings or photographs. I don't know too many people who would be angered if their S.O. viewed a sex scene in a movie, read erotic literature, or even watched a bit of porn. I don't know too many people who strictly enforce a "no talking to anyone but me!!!" rule on their partner. If none of those things individually are "wrong," then how come they're so awful and bad when you put them together?

 

And that brings me to the final, and what I think is the MUST important point I have to make after reading this entire thread: No relationship can be healthy when one partner wants to restrict the activity of or doubt the fidelity of the other. Or make unspoken rules for their conduct in their head, either. If you've got a death grip on someone's social activity, enjoyment, personal space and freedom, you're not doing your relationship any service. Or your partner. Or yourself. All you're doing is adding to jealousy, resentment, and underlying animosity between the two of you. The same goes for always second-guessing how faithful they are to you, or making the most mundane, perhaps even daily activities (that involve no actual breach of commitment) into violations. How is someone supposed to feel when they're told that looking at someone, talking to someone, appreciating the way someone looks or is dressed, fantasizing, etc. are all offensive maneuvers in their relationship? A healthy relationship is not one where each partner is entirely "locked down" and chained to one another. A healthy relationship is one where the two parties can freely discuss what they find beautiful and sexy with one another without having to feel like they've done something wrong when the answer isn't verbatim, "You, dear, lying there naked on our bed." One last thing that has to be mentioned--no matter where the boyfriend/husband goes, in the end, he's still coming home to you. Count your blessings, some women aren't so lucky. So who cares if someone else touches him, if you're the only one he's touching? Who cares who else he looks at and how he looks at them, if you love the way he looks at you? Does it really matter if he finds someone attractive if, when alone with you, he makes you feel like the most beautiful woman on the planet? Really...come on.

 

Pick it apart if you will, but that's what I have to say about the whole deal. Maybe I don't know anything because I'm some overly-Liberal 19-year-old queer girl...but wouldn't it be great if maybe--just maybe--I'm onto something here?

 

*GASP*

[deesgirl]

You paint a pretty picture, but the people I know and stories I've heard tell a different story.

 

For one thing, you are into open relationships and you're into women. Of course you are going to think there is nothing wrong with it.

 

You make lapdances sound so innocent and art, just a touch. Grinding on an erection is not art. Breasts in a married man's face isn't art. Putting her vagina an inch from a man's nose isn't either.

 

I'm sure there are good women and bad women that strip. It sounds like you are trying to say that all or most are innocent women that would never do extras. Go to some of the stripper's boards and find out how hard it is to make money these days without some kind of extras. There are so many doing it that it is making it almost impossible for the ones that don't to make the same money. Do you know why that is? Because the extras are in demand. Most men don't want to just 'watch' anymore. They want the grind and the extras.

 

BTW, extras can be anything from kissing to full out sex. I have many male friends and they tell stories of different clubs, so my opinion isn't about just one club.

 

Just because I don't believe these things are right in a monogomous relationship doesn't mean I have my husband under lock down. It just means that if that's what he wants to do, he can be a single man and do it.

[Papillon]

As I've grown older, I've come to find strips clubs utterly boring. That's probably because I tend to value a woman's intelligence and personality more than physical beauty (having learnt my lesson the hard way).

 

But either way, I can see how some men get off on that, and IMHO it's simply a temporary release from the moral shackles that bind us in our daily lives.

[purrrsephone]

For one thing, you are into open relationships and you're into women. Of course you are going to think there is nothing wrong with it.

 

For the record, I'm not into "open relationships." I believe there is a strict distinction between sexual/friendly relationships (the kind I have because I'm in no hurry to get married) and commited romantic relationships. I take commitment very seriously. But I also wouldn't kiss my significant other goodbye for enjoying another woman's company at a strip club, whereas, I'd give him the boot for sleeping with another woman behind my back. ESPECIALLY if he told me about the first and hid the second.

 

You make lapdances sound so innocent and art, just a touch.

 

That's because they are. Like I said. Sexuality is not a dirty, bad, evil thing. Erotic entertainment is still entertainment. The artistic value doesn't lessen as the clothes do.

 

I'm sure there are good women and bad women that strip. It sounds like you are trying to say that all or most are innocent women that would never do extras. Go to some of the stripper's boards and find out how hard it is to make money these days without some kind of extras. There are so many doing it that it is making it almost impossible for the ones that don't to make the same money. Do you know why that is? Because the extras are in demand. Most men don't want to just 'watch' anymore. They want the grind and the extras.

 

Not all clubs have "extras" as you call them. The standard practice either starts with a woman either giving a club a small fee to dance and work there or the club paying her a small base rate. That's just to dance. Depending on the club, they may encourage or discourage patrons to give the dancers tips while they're onstage. The place I go to discourages it. At the club I go to, with any REPUTABLE strip club, sex is not allowed. The patrons touching the girls is not allowed. Security strictly watches and enforces these rules. When it comes to the lapdances, the girls are not "grinding." The "nastiest" (if that's how you want to put it) the dances ever get is a girl sitting on someone's lap and leaning back on them or spreading her legs apart while she's in the middle of dancing--and she's always at least a foot away.

 

Honestly...the picture people paint of exotic dancers is NOTHING like what the girls really are. Most of them just do it for extra money, not as a full-time career, so they don't do "extras." A good customer or two who asks for 2 or 3 dances at a time gives them the pay that they were looking for that night. They're not all drug addicts. In fact, the only time I've ever heard of drugs being involved in the clubs around here was back in the 70's when one place opened up and a dealer was using one of the girls there as a way to sell the stuff. She wasn't a user. If anything, a lot of girls get exhausted easily and will drink lots of coffee (at the place I go to, they sell energy drinks like Red Bull) or take caffeine pills, that's it. They're not all string-out, doped-up, empty-headed prostitutes trying to get away with ruining someone's relationship. Jesus, people. Wise up.

[Kalieris]

Originally posted by dreaming4ever

I especially don't understand the women that can go with their boyfriends, watch them watching certain women and be like "you like her honey?" and get off on that. Like what kind of sickos are they? Do they not get that their guy is looking at another woman and wishing he was doing her?? Like HELLO?

 

I *am* one of those women, so I'll give you my 2 cents.

 

When I am in a sexually intimate relationship with someone, all kinds of things deepen our enjoyment of each other. Toys, videos, chocolate sauce - it's all good.

 

When the person I'm involved with and I are looking at sexy women (and the mall is an excellent place to do that, btw), it's a turn on for me partly because of the shared, intimate, erotic discussion between my partner and myself, partly because of the trust and openness it requires to talk about our fantasies to each other, and partly because I love looking at other women too. (I am usually wishing I was doing her, too, so I don't see why I should be upset with my partner for thinking the same thing.)

 

I would not be able to have a relationship with a man who was not comfortable enough with me or with his sexuality to give me a peek at his fantasies, and to create shared fantasies with me.

 

That being said, not everyone either needs this or is comfortable with it. Which is fine - people need to figure out what their own tastes are, and go with that. I do wish, however, that you would refrain from calling someone who has a different take on sexuality than you do a "sicko." Yes, I was actually offended.

 

Kali

[Pyrannaste]

Kalieris.... your post was extremely interesting.

Originally posted by Kalieris

(I am usually wishing I was doing her, too, so I don't see why I should be upset with my partner for thinking the same thing.)

 

This part left me wondering a few things....and feeling sort of weird.

When I were single if I saw an extremely sexy woman, I'd also wish I were doing her .

When I am NOT single, I am out on my own, and I see a very beautiful woman, my reaction would be admiration, and perhaps a bit of jealousy. When I'm somewhere with my boyfriend I see a sexy woman and I hate her.

 

I'd love to know if this is normal for people who have bi-sexual tendencies, but now I guess it is not from reading your post.

I'd love to know if someone experienced the same.

I am also worried that if I become single again I won't be anymore able to ....well, be attracted to beautiful women I see and wish I were doing them.

I loved that feeling, i.e. desiring a woman even if only in my fantasies (which I'd probably not act out even if I could), and I sort of miss it.

 

 

I would not be able to have a relationship with a man who was not comfortable enough with me or with his sexuality to give me a peek at his fantasies, and to create shared fantasies with me.

 

If you don't mind a couple personal questions, do you need your partner to make it clear you are number one to him, and that he'd not change the lady of the fantasies with you, to feel confortable with his fantasies about other women?

Or it is not important?

And can your partner, too, listen to your fantasies about other men without being jealous?

 

I'd love to learn the trick for sharing fantasies without becoming jealous or reacting badly.

[Kalieris]

This part left me wondering a few things....and feeling sort of weird.

When I were single if I saw an extremely sexy woman, I'd also wish I were doing her . When I am NOT single, I am out on my own, and I see a very beautiful woman, my reaction would be admiration, and perhaps a bit of jealousy. When I'm somewhere with my boyfriend I see a sexy woman and I hate her.

 

I don't think there *is* a norm, in that sense. I suspect there are as many flavors of bisexuality as there are bisexual people. For example, I am "more bi" when I'm in a relationship than when I am single. In part this is because I don't want an emotional relationship with a woman (I prefer men for that bit). In other part this is because I am more sexual in general when I'm actively having sex with someone. When single, I go into "energy saver mode," because it is frustrating as hell to have strong sexual feelings and nowhere to deal with them except by sublimation. Masturbation is nice, but not anywhere near as good as contact with another person.

 

I am also worried that if I become single again I won't be anymore able to ....well, be attracted to beautiful women I see and wish I were doing them. I loved that feeling, i.e. desiring a woman even if only in my fantasies (which I'd probably not act out even if I could), and I sort of miss it.

 

You might not feel like that right away, because of the whole post-breakup phenomenon. But, I find that just watching women out and about, the thoughts come to me without any particular coaxing. They're much more vivid when I'm in a relationship, and can talk about them with my partner, but they're there to some degree all the time. Good erotic fiction helps too. (literotica dot com is my fave)

 

In terms of sharing fantasies, it depends very much on the other person's comfort with talking about his sexuality. I mainly want him to be honest, because I tend to be very suspicious when someone says "wow, look at those tits" and then in the same breath says "but you know I love yours best, honey." Pfeh. Spare me. Just tell me what you enjoy about the woman we just saw, and let's talk about what it might be like to include someone like her in our play.

 

If I'm in a committed relationship, I also need to know that the other person and I are following the same basic rules. For example, it's ok to talk about bringing someone else into our bed, what she might look like, and what she might be comfortable doing with us. It's not ok for either one of us to "audition" her first. If we both meet her together over dinner, get to know each other, etc., no problem. If this is someone my SO tells me he's met by himself a couple of times "just to get a feel for her" his ass is toast. (Assume that the guidelines have been discussed from the beginning, not that I'm expecting some poor shmoe to read my mind about where my boundaries lie.) I don't mind a no-strings relationship, but I do mind having a committed relationship unilaterally become no-strings. If any of this makes sense.

 

In terms of what he fantasizes about, I would never presume to dictate what's "acceptable" fantasy material, nor would I try to tell him that he has to insert my face onto his fantasy woman. If he can't share himself, or in turn listen to my fantasies without freaking out, or without insisting that I can only fantasize about him, then he and I aren't going to be together very long. I don't like controlling behavior or jealousy.

 

I think the trick to sharing fantasies comfortably is to decide that you are going to trust this person, and that the very fact of him having this discussion with you is proof of his comfort and trust in you. You can't ever "guarantee" anyone's fidelity but your own, and you pretty much have to proceed in good faith or there's not much point in putting both of you through it. This doesn't mean I never get annoyed when someone I'm dating notices another woman, or talks about a wonderful experience they had that wasn't with me - but invariably, that happens on days where I'm just not feeling good about myself period, and the next day (when I'm myself again) I know it's not going to bother me at all. It's not *his* problem, in any case, but mine.

 

Hope that was useful.

 

K.

[shortbus74]

My sister is a "stripper" and she is paying her way thru college. My sister is one of the most wonderful caring people I know.. she would give you the shirt off her back if you needed it. My sister does not have underlying issues.. She chose a job where she makes more money in a week that most people make in a month... Am I proud of my sister? YES!!!

 

It is so easy to sit behind a computer and pass judgement....when you do not know the whole story......

 

 

My future hubby hangs out at a strip club... do I get annoyed? yes at times I do... but I know that he is coming home to me.... I know that he loves me and I know that he would never cheat or hurt me...................

 

 

Guess the point I am making is it is better to know where your loved one is hanging out than to have him lie about where he is......................

[Pyrannaste]

Kalieris,

thanks a lot for answering!

I found your post useful and very interesting.

[shortbus74]

K.. I thank you for you honesty in your posts....

Well said and wonderfully put!!!

[sarah436]

okay personally I think strip clubs are much better for men. I think most women would agree that a man dancing around stripping down just seems awkward. My boyfriend does not really care for strip clubs and yeah I definitley was a little creeped out when he went recently. Someone made a good pint that if he goes ALONE there may be a problem. My boyfriend went for a bachelor party. I didn't love the idea but hey who am I to keep him from hanging out with his friends. I don't really understand the whole strip club scene but it's pretty much mindless enetrtainmnt. Men enjoy looking at women. A lap dance may piss me off a little bit more but remember these girls are paid to do this. They have no interest in my boyfriend and he will be coming home to me.

[InmannRoshi]

I don't think we should expand the meaning of "cheating" to include all sexually oriented male behavior of which a partner disappoves.

 

Oh, but wouldn't it be fun if we could all have it that easy.

 

"Hey, I saw you chatting with that handsome guy and laughing at his lame jokes. You were obviously flirting !! I disapprove of that, and it makes me feel inadequate .... Therefore, you committed adultry !!!"

 

Oh, wait ... that would be ridiculous.

[pinky]

I am extremely late on this topic, but I am annoyed!!

 

I am bisexual and I go to the clubs with my hubby. We have a good time together. There is nothing different, weird, or odd about it.

 

I am pretty darn sure that MANY of those girls would not be there working like they are if they had all kids of other options being presented to them. Many of them are young single moms, or (as someone said) trying to get through school.

 

Believe me, they don't want to steal your man. It's sort of like working in a fast food joint, after a while you get sick of french fries. Many of these girls see it as a JOB, and that is it. They are not picking up dates.

 

Some are gorgeous, but some are chubby with streach marks just like the rest of us. Plain old girls trying to get by like everyone else. I am sure it is not something that most of them run home and tell mom about right away, so cut them a little slack and back off.

[Pyrannaste]

I am pretty darn sure that MANY of those girls would not be there working like they are if they had all kids of other options being presented to them. Many of them are young single moms, or (as someone said) trying to get through school.

 

Believe me, they don't want to steal your man.

 

the problem is not the girls. it's your husband/bf.

Sentences like "she does not want to steal me from you" or "don't worry, she'd not sleep with me" are NOT acceptable excuses and doomed-to-miserably-fail attemps to reassure me in my book.

[UCFKevin]

Holy CRAP! It's PURPLE TENTACLE!!! What have you done with Hoagie and Laverne, you monster?!?

 

Anyway.

 

Those shouldn't be reassurances. Your guy should simply say, "Just trust me. Nothing will happen. I don't want anything to happen."

[Pyrannaste]

Holy CRAP! It's PURPLE TENTACLE!!! What have you done with Hoagie and Laverne, you monster?!?

They are locked in the Chron-O'John with a mummy while I use my evil mutant powers to take over the world, and ENSLAVE ALL HUMANITY! Muhahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

 

Those shouldn't be reassurances. Your guy should simply say, "Just trust me. Nothing will happen. I don't want anything to happen."

 

Exactly.

 

(then it's up to the woman to decide whether the 'going to stip clubs' is a deal breaker or not, but this is the best possible thing a man going to a strip club could tell his worried, insecure girlfriend)

[UCFKevin]

Oh, right. I forgot. You're incredibly evil.

 

Don't touch my stamps!

[Pyrannaste]

Originally posted by UCFKevin

Oh, right. I forgot. You're incredibly evil.

 

Don't touch my stamps!

 

lol

 

This is totally off thread topic, but did you play Maniac Mansion too?

[UCFKevin]

Nah, only Day of the Tentacle. Which is still, to this day, one of my favorite video games ever.