Why does no one else think strip clubs are just plain WRONG???

[deesgirl]

Roshi, I agree. If a man feels like he's going to walk on egg shells or that he MUST go to strip clubs, he shouldn't get married. Now if he finds a woman that doesn't mind, no big deal.

 

To me if there is a NEED to go and have another woman rub her nude or almost nude body on you with the wife at home, then I would rather be single myself.

 

The only way you can turn the situation around is to have your wife/gf laying down (couch dance maybe?) with an almost nude man laying on top of her grinding. Or your wife/gf straddling another man grinding. I don't know of any men that would put up with that, but women are supposed to be fine with it.

 

It really shocks me that some women are fine with it.

[adore-la-vie]

I'm just saying I think it is wrong because guys shouldn't want to look at other girls who are mostly naked when they have a girlfriend.

 

dreaming4ever: So I take it that you also are against Playboy, Maxim, FHM, Vicotoria Secret catalogs and all those other magazines for guys that have naked and barely clothed women in it as well?

 

You say that you you wouldn't want your guy to come home after being at a strip club and sleep with you while he is thinking about the strippers he just saw. Well he could do that about the woman he just saw at the grocery store, or the woman at the mall, or that hot little celebrity he just saw on TV.

 

Men are visual creatures. Strip Clubs offer the visual image. That is all there is to it. It is no different then a woman looking at a man with his shirt off.

[majorca888]

It's really nice to see a guy, Johan speak out and clarify the issue. It's really tiresome (yawn) when guys and even some women (warped) try to convince those of us who object to porn or strip joints that WE'RE the ones with the problem (either we're insecure or prudes).

Isn't it interesting how the scales of what is morally acceptable these days keep moving further and further away from things that were once believed to be destructive. Although I know this will piss a lot of you off, why don't you spend some time reading about the Bible? Do you think sex, perversion and lust are new things? Duh. Read about what happened thousands of years ago to those who thought like you--anything goes.

None of these problems are new; they have been around since time began. People who claim that pornography, strip joints and the like will spice up their relationships are just kidding themselves. Sorry Charlie--the divorce statistics don't support this. We have more porn, more sex shops, more adult bookstores and more dysfunction than ever before in history. The problem isn't a lack of sex--the problem is that we've taken sex from being what it was intended for--it's intended to be enjoyed in a monogamous relationship--and turned it into something dark and aberrated.

When you speak up and say--hey, I don't want to tolerate this because it degrades and disrespects me, suddenly you're insecure. It's outrageous. If a woman started giving her boss a hand job through his pants over the lunch break, would her husband or boyfriend decide that was not cheating? Would that be considered harmless fun?

Actions such as affairs start with THOUGHTS folks and if you play with fire, you're going to get burned. The big lie that the porn/strip joint/sex industry has perpetrated is this "if it feels good, do it". Well, it probably will feel good--for a short period of time. But after some time, when more and more strip joints, pornograpy is not enough, the person becomes addicted and then he/she (yes, women are addicts too) starts down a slippery slope, taking their relationships with them. I know; one of my best friends ( a male) destroyed his life with this crap. So please, don't insult us and the truth by claiming it's all a bit of harmless fun; the statistics say otherwise.

[flygirl24]

The argument that we now have more divorce than ever before because of strip clubs and porn is a joke. Come on, we all know very well, that just because the men of the past weren't OPEN about strip clubs and prostitutes, and thumped the Bible on Sunday mornings, it doesn't mean that they were faithful to their wives. Evolution involves freedom, and what was not free to be discussed or socially accepted in the past, is now becoming the norm. Just like e-mail has become the norm. Progress is not limited to technology or medicine, it permeates all of humanity, including sexuality.

 

The problem isn't a lack of sex--the problem is that we've taken sex from being what it was intended for--it's intended to be enjoyed in a monogamous relationship--and turned it into something dark and aberrated.

 

Since when is sex intended for monogamous relationships? And where? Nature speaks otherwise. The survival of the species would not be possible if the species was monogamous. (And yes, it is genetically impossible to come from Adam and Eve. ) Humans have evolved emotionally, and need an emotional connection. However, that is not to say that the human desire for sexuality will not clash at times with monogamy. It does, for everyone. Every man would want to have sex with a naked woman in an alley, if their SO was not to find out. However, a man may want to do it, but a good one will not do it, because he understand the consequences.

Same with strip clubs. There is nothing wrong with fantasy and arousal. But I do not know many men who would take a stripper all the way, even if she propositioned them. It is not the point of the experience. Seeing a naked woman, having her sit on you, talk to you, yes, that is all a part of the fantasy and a part of the point of going to a strip club. Sleeping with her, and waking up to her in the morning is not.

 

It's really tiresome (yawn) when guys and even some women (warped) try to convince those of us who object to porn or strip joints that WE'RE the ones with the problem (either we're insecure or prudes).

 

That is the problem. It is insecurity all the way. The feeling goes like this: "Honey, you should only look at me, I should be the only naked woman in your thoughts, you should think everyone else is ugly." Please. Sexuality is free of legislation, and if you try to legislate it, your man will only do it behind your back. Everything you "ban" will become the forbidden fruit. Women should once and for all accept that men like to look at naked women. Period. It is not a big deal, as long as it is not an addiction, and it will NEVER GO AWAY.

 

Finally, I have seen too many divorces from the so called "mid life crisis." The man is as restricted as possible by the wife, has learned to hide and suppress every desire. Then all of a sudden he gets a younger, more adventurous girlfriend and finds life. All of a sudden, a family is ruined because the first wife would never allow him to watch porn, go to the occasional bachelor party, etc. Sorry, I know this sounds simplistic, but talk to men who have left their first wives. Go on message boards about this and see what the truth is, when it is anonymous over the Internet. You will be surprised to see how much it all is about sex, no matter how much you fool yourself that humans are above it.

[zara]

Hmmm.

 

Whilst i don't believe that the world would be a better place if we all stayed home and read the bible on a weekend it would seem that Flygirl is suggesting women should just shut up about the things they don't like and play the obedient little woman! You say that "Evolution involves freedom" and that includes a woman's right to express her distaste and disapproval of her SO's activities. Gone are the days when women were expected to endure in silence husband's affairs/ gambling/ physical abuse and play the dutiful wife.

 

Just because something is 'the norm' or prolific in society it doesn't make it right. Time was smoking was 'the norm' in society but now society is starting to realise its destructive effects.

 

Women have fantasies too but are less apt to indulge in them - now whether that be through lack of opportunity (back to the lack of erotic experience for women) or willing limitation of fantasy boundaries (i.e. viewing a movie with Brad Pitt is chosen as an acceptable boundary of lustful fantasy) - who knows. But i doubt that lack of indulgence is through fear of arousing insecurity of men, but is likely to occur as expression of a level of respect in their committment to their partner.

[majorca888]

Flygirl, I think your arguments defy logic here. One look at the statistics of what our society has become--divorce rates, child abuse, pedophilia etc tells the tale of what happens when there are no set boundaries of behavior or relationships. And to state that because something is socially acceptable makes it right is outrageous. At one point in history it was socially acceptable for people to make racist remarks against black people, attack them physically or bar them from certain institutions. Did that make it right? As my Dad always told me, just because a lot of people are doing something stupid, it still makes it stupid.

Nobody is suggesting that a man should find all other women ugly besides his/her spouse and the reality is that he may feel attracted to other women.

But long-term, if a man continues to fixate on women either in porn or in strip clubs, other than the person he is with, he will undoubtedly begin to compare her to those women and she will feel dehumanized and rightfully so.

 

I think that if you were to spend any length of time researching the effects of porn and spoke to family therapists, you would find that in fact, its effects are destructive, that it does destroy trust and families.

 

I would object strenously if I heard someone utter a racial epithet against a black friend of mine. Why? Because it's disrespectful. Does that make me insecure or would you call me insecure? No, because I am fighting for a certain standard. If a woman objects to her husband allowing another woman to writhe on her lap, why is she suddenly now insecure?

 

Sure, men like to look at naked women. Agreed. But the naked woman they need to be focused on is the woman they are dating.

 

If, as others have said, they have a hard time doing that, then stay single.

 

But you can't have your cake and eat it too. As for harmless fantasy etc and women being insecure--you might want to give Halle Berry a call and talk to her. She divorced her husband Eric because he was a sex and porn addict. Now, does that mean that Halle Berry--one of the world's most beautiful women--is insecure? What could she possibly have to be insecure about?

 

It's not about looks; it's about a lack of respect, pure and simple.

 

I once heard someone say, "if you're in something, be in it, if you're not in it, get out."

 

Another bit of research--ask couples who've been married for 40, 50 years, what the secret of their marriages are? I'm betting they won't say-- "well, I let Wilbur look at all the porn he could get his hands on and go to the strip clubs every week." Not a chance.

[flygirl24]

I completely disagree that divorce rates have a direct link to porn and strip clubs. Can that be a factor for SOME divorces, yes, but making it a direct link is a complete fallacy. It is not so black and white.

 

One look at the statistics of what our society has become--divorce rates, child abuse, pedophilia etc tells the tale of what happens when there are no set boundaries of behavior or relationships.

 

All those things you mention are not new in society. Pedophilia was considered to be supreme to male/female sex in ancient Greece and Rome. Was that right, of course not. I never said that what becomes norm is right, I just said progress was all encompassing. As far as I am concerned, it is right or wrong based on what you believe. The problem becomes when people think that they can impose their "right" on others. And women try to do that to their men.

 

Your response is full of red herrings. Giving a racial slur situation as an argument for strip clubs, is nothing but that. Racism has nothing to do with insecurity, and nothing to do with sex. Using arguments of what was abolished in the past is completely unrelated, and could go on and on forever. That is not the discussion here.

 

I agree with you that a man should focus on the woman he is dating. I would never date a man who paid more attention to someone other than me. However, you are speaking of extremes.

 

As for Halle Berry, come on, she left him because he cheated on her. Giving examples of celebrities who are living the fantasy life has nothing to do with you, me and our world. And, insecurity has little to do with looks. It is your self-worth, and it comes from deep within. Some of the most secure women I have ever met, are not the most attractive ones.

Another bit of research--ask couples who've been married for 40, 50 years, what the secret of their marriages are? I'm betting they won't say-- "well, I let Wilbur look at all the porn he could get his hands on and go to the strip clubs every week." Not a chance.

I have done research on couples and divorce root causes. And your example of those that have been married for that long represents the old ways of women being unable to divorce and having to put up with EVERYTHING. They had no choice. Just because those couples are married, it does not mean that they are happy.

 

Now, ask currently divorcing couples what went wrong. Many answers will be sex. I am not saying that you should accept something you are not comfortable with. Don't accept it, if you have a problem with it, leave your partner. Just don't think that he will not look at porn because you said so. If a man/woman wants to do something, they WILL. It will be done behind your back. And eventually it will become too much lying, too much pressure. People only suppress their desire for a limited period of time.

 

I believe suppressing someone's natural sexual desires are much more dehumanizing than fantasy.

 

Zara, I am the last person who thinks that women should be obedient. I think they should be strong and independent, but not naive and stupid, in thinking that if they say no to strip clubs and porn, their men all of a sudden will stop doing those things. If something is forbidden it will become even more attractive.

 

I agree that men who frequent strip clubs are pathetic. I would never put up with any addictions.

 

The whole point of my responses on this post is: you cannot stop someone from doing something they want to do. Imposing your will on someone is much more degrading than strip clubs. Leave them if you have a problem with them, and find someone who shares your views. Otherwise, you live a lie, and they sneak behind your back.

[majorca888]

Flygirl--so, according to your logic, if something is forbidden, that means the peson will automatically be justified in going and doing it? How bizarre it that.

We have laws that prohibit excessive speeding, we have laws against murder and rape--does that mean that we should abolish these because, after all, using your logic, we are just creating a forbidden fruit situation?

 

 

People are not animals Flygirl--we are spiritual beings and contrary to what you are asserting, men actually are capable of controlling their sexual behavior. Not every man looks at porn or even wants to look at porn. In fact, I know a number of men who would much prefer a romantic evening at home with their wives and girlfriends and find porn to be a vulgar, poor substitution for an intimate relationship. Talk to men who've gone through recovery programs for porn addiction and they will tell you how empty and horrible they felt as a result. Examine the life of Ted Bundy, who, prior to being put to death, warned about the dangers.

 

The problem with your argument is this---according to you, there are no moral absolutes. And, if there are no moral absolutes--nothing that is either considered good or evil---then we might as well throw everything away and say--anything goes. That certainly appears to be the way that society is heading anyway. A court case in Canada recently dealt with a middle aged man's "right" to make and possess child pornography. Hellooooo! What about the "rights" of the child, not to be exposed? There is most definitely a proven link between pornography and accelerated sexual deviation and aberration. In other words, things start out as "well, it's just a few naked pictures" and before you know it, it's become more and more extreme.

[deesgirl]

Are you saying you shouldn't set boundaries in a relationship, FG? That you are insecure if you do or your spouse will just go behind your back?

 

So, if my H says that he considers me kissing another guy cheating, is he insecure and should I just sneak and do it anyway? That would make it forbidden fruit, right?

 

Well, I consider another woman in his lap, grinding, to be cheating. I am well within my right to say that is crossing boundaries and he can not do it or we can split up. If he goes behind my back, that is his wrong doing, not mine.

 

I really don't see strip clubs as progress either. Progress, to me, makes society better. What good things are we gaining by strip clubs? Wives getting lied to, divorces, and money being taken from the family and put in g-strings.

 

You can yell insecure all you want, but I think the woman that puts up with this behavior from their SO is the one that's insecure. I think that they are afraid that if they don't, the guy will cheat, go behind her back, or think she isn't cool. Just like you. You said if you don't let them, they will sneak and do it anyway. That's not the way I want to live my life.

 

I do agree that if you find out soon into the relationship that a man is into this, you should just move on. Some of us don't find out until years later though. I don't want to divorce without giving him a chance to show me that he can stay within the boundaries I have. If he chose strippers over our marriage again, I would let him go.

[majorca888]

Deesgirl--amen sister. Flygirl's contention that the issue is not about looks--get real! What--do men go to strip joints to see ugly women?

 

Myself, I am really sick and tired of all this new age, anything goes, if it feels good do it philosophy as though there are never any consequences for one's actions. Let's get into the real world.

 

There are very real consequences to this stuff--it's just that you never hear about them. I saw a male coworker destroy his life with this supposedly "harmless" stuff. That is the big lie of the porn industry and people are buying it, hook line and sinker. The porn and sex industry is making billions because it has convinced people that "everybody does it" or "it's ok, it's normal" in the same way that the tobacco industry--another industry with no ethics--convinced people that cigarettes were not harmful. Yes, the comparison is valid because what they are both selling is a fantasy life that is dangerous. Smoke cigarettes and you'll be cool, use porn and frequent strip clubs and your friends will think you are cool.

Do you see how this works? If you look at societies where porn has proliferated, they tend to have the most unhealthy family relationships, highest divorce rates, lowest amount of spirituality etc.

 

Next time you try to convince yourself and others that this is harmless ask yourself this question--who is going to make money off me using this? Do I want to support an industry, which, like tobacco, promotes a lack of values and ethics?

 

As for people stomp on other peoples' "rights" to view this stuff, I would say that your side, Flygirl has won that battle--we are now inundated with this crap at every turn and the rights of those who object to it seem to be non-existent

[flygirl24]

Majorca, you misunderstood what I meant about looks. You stated that Halle Berry is one of the most beautiful women in the world, and she should have no reason to be insecure. I said insecurity does not derive from looks.

 

Now, you keep referring back to ADDICTION. I agree with you, addiction is horrible, and no one should put up with it. I also do not know ANY man who would chose strippers over a romantic evening with their SO. However, life has room for ALL kinds of activities. I am sure if someone asked you whether you would choose a good massage over sex with your SO you would say no way, however there are times, I am sure, when you have been really tired and would choose a massage over sex. It doesn't mean that you would do it EVERY TIME. That would be an addiction to massage:)

 

But seriously, I think we agree on more than you think, except for the fact that you think just because something is available and tempting it will make all of society into addicts. You contradict yourself by saying:

 

we are spiritual beings and contrary to what you are asserting, men actually are capable of controlling their sexual behavior

 

And then by stating the opposite:

 

In other words, things start out as "well, it's just a few naked pictures" and before you know it, it's become more and more extreme.

 

So, really you do not believe that men can control themselves, or else they would leave it at a few naked pictures. (And most men do.)

 

I do believe in moral absolutes. I do believe in evil and good. Evil being the gruesome murder, etc, good being the love for a child. However, you use pathology in your arguments against strip clubs. You use pedophillia, which is a pathological condition as a possible consequence of porn. That is absurd. I do not care how many strip clubs (which BTW feature adult women) a normal, healthy man goes to, and he will NEVER turn to pedophillia.

 

I stated previously that a consequence of a man going to a strip club is his partner leaving him if she doesn't like it. I never stated that there should be no limits, I stated everyone should have their own personal limits to what they believe in, and morality cannot be imposed by others. It simply doesn't work. For example, I believe it is immoral that churches manipulate people out of money and discredit medical genetic proof by perpetuating myths and instilling fear in people. (ie: if you do not believe you will burn in hell.) A man is giving his dollars willingly to a stripper, not out of fear. It is all his personal choice. So, should all churches be banned because I believe they are immoral? Just because there is no room in my world for the bible, no one should have it? You try to impose your beliefs on me, how would you feel if I imposed mine on you?

 

according to your logic, if something is forbidden, that means the person will automatically be justified in going and doing it? How bizarre it that.

We have laws that prohibit excessive speeding, we have laws against murder and rape--does that mean that we should abolish these because, after all, using your logic, we are just creating a forbidden fruit situation?

 

I didn't state that it was justified, I stated that it is going to happen anyway, because you cannot make someone do what YOU want. Do people still speed? Yes. You proved my point. Just because you say something shouldn't happen doesn't mean that it will not.

 

Deesgirl,

 

The original message on this post had to do with a girl already expressing her disgust with strip clubs and the hurt it caused her, but her boyfriend continued it anyway. That is why I said the partner should leave, because the behavior will not stop if HE doesn't want it to stop.

 

You can yell insecure all you want, but I think the woman that puts up with this behavior from their SO is the one that's insecure. I think that they are afraid that if they don't, the guy will cheat, go behind her back, or think she isn't cool. Just like you. You said if you don't let them, they will sneak and do it anyway. That's not the way I want to live my life.

 

I would never put up with my SO frequenting strip clubs and getting lap dances. I would leave. However, I do recognize men's sexuality and do think there should be a compromise reached in a relationship by BOTH parties that does not restrict EITHER one excessively. If your H is ok with you stripping for him, that is a form of that compromise. If your H goes to a bachelor party and does not get a lap dance, but can still go to the event, that is a form of that compromise. If you watch porn together, that is a form of that compromise. Boundaries should exist, but they should not be set by one person.

What I think is naive is saying: "you can never do this, I hate it, you should only look at me, you should change for me, period." That is naive and insecure, and women who do this to their men find out the hard way that it doesn't work. That is when a forbidden fruit situation is created.

 

And I did not refer to strip clubs as progress. I stated that the openness in sexuality we have seen over time is progress. I said that in order to discredit the example of 50 year marriages, because I believe that the men did the same thing then, just weren't open about it. Instead of strippers there were maids, slaves, etc. Same thing. Restrictive, frigid wives = men looking for it elsewhere.

 

Good discussion, Ladies!

[majorca888]

Flygirl-yes, this is a good discussion. You stated that you believe in the concepts of good and evil; let me ask you this--where did those concepts originate?

It's funny but whenever I ask this question, I usually get a blank stare.

Where did the ideas of what is good and what is evil, come from? Apes?

 

When I referred to a man looking at a few naked pictures, I was not contradicting myself; I was not accepting this as something that would inevitably happen. The point that I was making is that if you do your research and talk to those whose lives and marriages have been destroyed by these activities, you will find that it all started out as something like a visit to one porn site or one strip club.

 

I do find it laughable when the sex industry claims that its "rights" are being trampled on because people object to the crap that it produces. What about the rights of those of us who don't want our inboxes filled with porn/spam? Clearly, they have abused those "rights" to the point where it was necessary for the US to pass laws to stop the massive proliferation of porn and other spam filling peoples' email inboxes.

 

Don't take my word for the effects of porn.

 

Here is a clinical study that can be found on the web site, http://www.moralityinmedia.org

 

Additionally, empirical research suggests that when experimental subjects are exposed to repeated presentations of adult pornography over a six-week period, they:

 

 

Develop an increased callousness toward women; trivialize rape as a criminal offense; to some it was no longer a crime at all;

Develop distorted perceptions about sexuality;

Develop an appetite for more deviant, bizarre, or violent types of pornography (escalation); normal sex no longer seemed to "do the job;"

Devalue the importance of monogamy and lack confidence in marriage as a lasting institution; and

View non-monogamous relationships as normal and natural behavior.

 

(Zillman, D., and Bryant, J. "Pornography's Impact on Sexual Satisfaction." Journal of Applied Social Psychology, 1988: vol 18, no. 5, pp 438-453; and Zillman, D., and Bryant, J., "Effects of Prolonged Consumption of Pornography on Family Values." Journal of Family Issues (Dec. 1988): vol. 9, no. 4, pp 518-544.).

 

 

And, as if that was not enough...read this

 

If Pornography Made Us Healthy,

We Would Be Healthy By Now

 

By Mary Anne Layden, Ph. D.

 

Dr. Layden wrote this statement for Morality in Media on the occasion of the so-called "Erotica USA" trade show which appeared at New York City's Jacob Javits Convention Center in April 1999.

Erotica USA arrives on April 15, 1999 and describes itself as "titillating but not nasty'. As a psychotherapist, this description is confusing. This show promotes of a number of psychiatric disorders and symptoms as if they are normal such as fetishes and sadomasochism. Are they trying to promote psychologically healthy relationships? Hardly!

If pornography made us healthy, we would be healthy by now. If the sex industry made us healthy, then those in the sex industry would be the healthiest and have the healthiest relationships. The reality is far from that.

 

Damage to women which precedes working in the sex industry

 

Most strippers, as with other women who work in the sex industry, are adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Research indicates the number is between 60%-80%. One study found that 35% of strippers have Multiple Personality Disorder, 55% had Borderline Personality Disorder, and 60% had Major Depressive Episodes, These are severe psychiatric problems and many of them are connected to childhood sexual abuse. These are women who when they were little girls would get into their beds each night and roll themselves into a fetal position and every night he would come in and peel her open. The physical and visual invasion of little girl's bodies damages them psychologically and gives them a psychologically unhealthy view of sexuality. Often as adults they reenact their childhood trauma by working as strippers, Playboy models, and prostitutes. The men who, now as customers, physically and visually invade the adult women's bodies, reenact the role of the perpetrator. These women work in the sex industry because it feels like home.

 

Damage to women which comes from working in the sex industry

 

Among strippers, eating disorders are rampant. Many of the women starve, vomit, abuse exercise or laxatives to become the unnatural shape that is demanded of them. Plastic surgery is almost invariably required especially artificial breasts to produce unnaturally large breasts. This surgery is considered a necessity despite the evidence that artificial breasts interfere with mammograms, and are implicated in autoimmune deficiency disorders in the women, and digestive disorders in the babies of the women who have had the surgery.

 

Strippers are often substance abusers as well; one study found the number to be 40%. Sometimes this is-because they have to numb themselves to be able to do the work they do. Often the consumption of alcohol is required on the job. Strippers who refuse to drink or who refuse to accept drinks from customers can be fired, coerced or threatened by bosses. Even strippers who have told their superiors that they are alcoholics who attend AA meetings are told that they have to drink on the job. Sometimes customers tip the strippers with cocaine. Cocaine addiction is common.

 

Their personal lives and relationships suffer as well. Women who work in the sex industry have only a 25% chance of making a marriage that will last as long as three years. If the sex industry and pornography made us sexually healthy and improved marriages, one would expected that those most involved would have the healthiest marriages but just the opposite is true. These women often hate men and disparage them.

 

The job that they do is fraught with dangers and unpleasantry. In one study 100% of the strippers reported some kind of physical or verbal abuse on their jobs. Verbal abuse by customers is extremely common with 91% reporting incidents. They were routinely called degrading names like c--t (52%), w---e (61%), and b---h (85%). Besides the verbal abuse, all endured some type of physical abuse on the job. Despite the fact that it is illegal to touch a stripper, strippers reported that customers grabbed them by the arm (88%), grabbed their breast (73%), or their buttock (91%). Customers at strip clubs often assault the women. Customers pulled their hair (27%), pinched them (58%), slapped them (24%), or bite them (36%). They are often attacked in the str1p club in front of bodyguards and other audience members.

 

If men would do this to women in public, what would they do to women in private? Strippers are often raped. Strippers have reported that they have been followed home (70%) and have been stalked (42%). The fact that strippers work with bodyguards is evidence to the fact that their fears that this activity causes violence are realistic. Strippers may have bodyguards while they are at work but when they leave, they are as vulnerable as is the rest of the female population. Most women interact with these individuals without the benefit of a bodyguard. All women will have to interact with the strip club patrons who have permission-giving beliefs about the use of women's bodies. Strip club patrons do not apply their beliefs only to women who work in the sex industry. Strippers, having been damaged by their own sexual abuse, now go on to work in an industry that encourages the beliefs that will allow behavior that hurts all women. The unbroken chain of victim and victimizer continues.

 

 

JUST A FEW HARMLESS PICTURES?

The minimal user of pornography also shows signs of significant negative impact. The damage to marriage of visual infidelity is massive, Sex addicts often have no conception of healthy sexuality and their partners often end up engaging in degrading behaviors. I often hear complaints from partners who feel degraded by a sex addict who watches pornography during the sex act with them and much worse. The partners of sex addicts are often depressed, low in self-esteern, have eating disorders, and sexual dysfunction brought on by body self consciousness or sexual numbing and who fake their orgasms. The damage caused by the addict is not just to the women with whom they are partners. The damage is also seen in the damage to the general respect of women, inability to be intimate in healthy ways, and inability to interact with women in a professional environment in respectful ways. This encourages sexual harassment on the job.

 

Studies have found significant changes in beliefs when subjects have been shown pornography. They come to believe that unusual sex behavior even psychiatrically disordered behavior is more common than they thought it was before. This includes behaviors such as having sex with animals and mixing sex with violence. They come to find damaging behavior as more acceptable such as showing pornography to children. They become less negative in their attitudes toward rape and believe that rapists should receive lighter sentences. They have a 50% reduction in their belief that women should be liberated. In one study done in Pennsylvania, Chiefs of Police were polled about the impact of strip clubs on their communities. A majority of police chiefs believed that strip clubs cause crime, that the community does not want them and that the quality of life would be better if they were illegal. In fact, when Oklahoma City closed down 150 porn shops, they had a 26% reduction in rapes.

 

 

 

Things are apparently not as rosy as you would have us believe, Flygirl.

[SweeterGirl]

Strip Clubs are so not that bad. Men look at naked chicks in pornos, on the internet, on TV, and so do we girls. We see naked men, half naked men, etc. If you trust you man in a commited relationship not to take it any further than a lap dance. And he comes home to you. What's the problem.

 

 

<and this is coming from a girl with a HUGE jealousy problem she needs to get over>

[majorca888]

It seems strange that on the one hand, you're stating that it's no big deal because he comes home to you but on the other hand, you have a big jealousy problem.

 

Could the two be related perhaps?

 

If that's the test of a healthy relationship--he comes home to me--no thanks. People can do all kinds of things and still come home to their SO, what does that prove?

[hooghie]

This is an issue with a lot of people. Can someone please clarify why a naked woman grinding your boyfriend/husband for the purpose of turning him on is not cheating. I espcially don't understand it at a bachelor party- the guy is about to get married!

 

My boyfriend and I have been together for almost 3 years. He has not gone ot a strip club during this time and says that he doesn't like them and finds the beer too expensive (not because I've asked him not to go), BUT he says if we get married, he will have to because it is what his friends do before one of them gets married and he will not say no strippers because he will feel stupid. I don't have a huge problem with that- mainly because I know he's not an addict or anything, BUT I DO have a problem with the touching/lap dancing type of thing- specially the type of stuff that goes on with the groom.

 

I know he and most guys would have a huge problem if I had a lifesaver shirt for guys to suck off or grinded guys even fully clothed so I'm not sure how some of you can say it's innocent/not cheating or that it's ok if he comes home to you. If I pay a guy to let me grind him, would that be innocent too? can I do anything I want as long as I go home to hime? some of the logic I constantly here about strip clubs being ok for TAKEN men is crazy to me.

[me- zara]

Still an interesting thread!

 

Flygirl - your argument still seems to be to say 'anything goes' in a relationship and be cool with it or he'll leave you/ look elsewhere. Your point about frigid women is something i would expect to hear from a man - just because someone has standards regarding commercial sex that does NOT make them frigid. I have some VERY sexually adventurous friends who make no secret of their dislike of pornography and strip clubs.

 

Majorca - you know the old saying about lies, damned lies and statistics? I am a stripper who was never sexually abused, was a virgin until the age of 19, i don't take drugs, i don't drink when i work - except for two glasses of champagne if offered (but that's my limit), eat healthily and work out three times a week, have an MBA and regular responsible day job. Not married and can't get a boyfriend so can't help you there, but several of my colleagues are happily married women, some with children, none of whom have drink or drugs problems. There is a great will to victimise women in the industry and whilst that is undoubtedly true of some (just as there may well be women who work in your office/ supermarket/ school/ beauty salon who suffer the problems you mentioned) there are also a great many ordinary women, just like you. Yes, i even have colleagues who are regular church attendees.

[zara]

Still an interesting thread!

 

Flygirl - your argument still seems to be to say 'anything goes' in a relationship and be cool with it or he'll leave you/ look elsewhere. Your point about frigid women is something i would expect to hear from a man - just because someone has standards regarding commercial sex that does NOT make them frigid. I have some VERY sexually adventurous friends who make no secret of their dislike of pornography and strip clubs.

 

Majorca - you know the old saying about lies, damned lies and statistics? I am a stripper who was never sexually abused, was a virgin until the age of 19, i don't take drugs, i don't drink when i work - except for two glasses of champagne if offered (but that's my limit), eat healthily and work out three times a week, have an MBA and regular responsible day job. Not married and can't get a boyfriend so can't help you there, but several of my colleagues are happily married women, some with children, none of whom have drink or drugs problems. There is a great will to victimise women in the industry and whilst that is undoubtedly true of some (just as there may well be women who work in your office/ supermarket/ school/ beauty salon who suffer the problems you mentioned) there are also a great many ordinary women, just like you. Yes, i even have colleagues who are regular church attendees.

[deesgirl]

Zara, with your job I appreciate that you don't say the wives are always to blame when their Hs go to strip clubs. I've read too many threads from strippers saying that the wives are frigid or fat cows.

[zara]

Deesgirl - not true at all. No wife is responsible for her husbands decision to visit a strip club! Men are capable of making their own choices! i would not dream of criticizing a wife for the actions of her husband.

 

And i really do not think it is as simple as men wanting women who are sexually adventurous with perfect bodies. Men choose the girls they want to dance for them on a variety of factors. I am very well spoken and lots choose me because "you're classy." or because i am short "you're cute", some might choose my colleagues because they talk dirty, me, i would run a mile if a vibrator was so much as to enter my house and often tell punters that no, i am not bisexual, much as they might like me to be. Yes, in fact i am quite dull!

 

Maybe it's becasue i am older, maybe it's becasue i am well educated, maybe it's becasue i am British - i just hope that you view strippers as people in their own right and don't stereotype them, just as i wouldn't stereotype a punter's wife!