Never thought I would be doing this

[vsmini]

A couple years ago I found out the old cheesy cliche of honesty is the best policy. It did not take place in the context of a relationship but I was dishonest, most people were none the wiser but I still felt awful for it.

 

What went around came back around. Some might say I'm lucky because I didn't face public shame or humiliation but I suffered with the lie every day in my head for over a year until I came clean. The guilt I felt was punishment enough. And it was not easy "gosh I shouldn't have lied, dang I feel bad about it" guilt - it was gut-wrenching, moral catastrophe guilt.

 

So no - I'm not perfect and though I am going off on this particular thread I can't really sit here and judge him but......you know the what the right thing to is. Deserve it or not, entitled or not, worth it or not...you know what the right thing is.

[SidLyon]

Bentnotbroken, I must say nobody's comments have angered me, but yours. Your "pious" profile picture, wording of "in gods grace" and your know-it-all attitude and assine assumptions, make me think you are the typical religious hypocrite.

 

I am being completely sincere. I have no reason to lie to a forum of strangers.

 

And please do not make it sound like my friend is 15, or that I am at the playground trying to con some young child into sex. She is 22. Completely an adult. Completely free to make her own decisions. Don't act like she is being led blind into this.

 

Bentnotbroken, you are crass, judgemental, and typical for most people that outwardly push their religion to people. While I very much appreciate the advice I have got from all others in this forum, I wish you would just go read your bible, tell yourself how great you are, and refrain from commenting further in this thread. In all reality, people like you make me want to vomit.

 

Hey this is really unnecessary.

 

I note that you haven't directly commented on anything I've said - including baring my soul about my sex life when I was in my 40s. That is fair enough because that's the right thing to do on this forum. If somebody rubs you up the wrong way then do your best to ignore them and take what you can from the rest. I'm sure Bent herself would agree with this.

 

I assumed you are ignoring me because you disagree or have nothing to say to me, but now wonder if I'm to be next.

 

People won't even try to help you if they see you insulting others with whom you disagree.

[foggyandconfused]

So you will keep with your holier-then-thou attitude and continue to post in this thread, even though I asked you not to. That is fine. I have ignored bigger idiots than you.

 

This is the last time I will address any of your comments, bentnotbroken. Keep trying to believe you are not broken.

 

Everyone else, this thread is making me think hard about all of this and I think you for your honesty and for not turning into a judgmental douche, like Ms. Religious.

[whichwayisup]

Bent is harsh sometimes and gives ass kickin' when necessary, but you gotta know, it does come from a good place. if she didn't care, she wouldn't have posted.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[bentnotbroken]

So you will keep with your holier-then-thou attitude and continue to post in this thread, even though I asked you not to. That is fine. I have ignored bigger idiots than you.

 

This is the last time I will address any of your comments, bentnotbroken. Keep trying to believe you are not broken.

 

Everyone else, this thread is making me think hard about all of this and I think you for your honesty and for not turning into a judgmental douche, like Ms. Religious.

 

 

Ahhh a new label. That is Mrs. Religious Douche to you sir.

[bentnotbroken]

Bent is harsh sometimes and gives ass kickin' when necessary, but you gotta know, it does come from a good place. if she didn't care, she wouldn't have posted.

 

Just my 2 cents.

:love::love:

[whichwayisup]

this thread is making me think hard about all of this

 

This is good.

 

Now..Take this a step further.. Get separate rooms on this work trip. Take more time to think this through before jumping into something that you could really regret doing.

[vsmini]

Grab your bucket cause I ain't going no where.

 

I got my bucket! Bend on.

[foggyandconfused]

Sid, I have read your comments and you will not be next. Why? Because you are civil. I may disagree with a lot I have read on this thread. But, it is said without crass name calling and stupid general assumptions. That is what is really unnecessary.

 

You can cover it with the "comes from a good place" tag all you want. You are what you are, bent, a true hypocrite. I would much rather talk and even argue with people that can speak their mind, without being a self-righteous jackarse.

[bentnotbroken]

Sid, I have read your comments and you will not be next. Why? Because you are civil. I may disagree with a lot I have read on this thread. But, it is said without crass name calling and stupid general assumptions. That is what is really unnecessary.

 

You can cover it with the "comes from a good place" tag all you want. You are what you are, bent, a true hypocrite. I would much rather talk and even argue with people that can speak their mind, without being a self-righteous jackarse.

 

 

You should recognize a jackwagon when you see one. You do use a mirror right? I didn't call you anything. What do you want to be called? My favorite thing to do is call the actions cowardly....do want me to do that?

[vsmini]

Another thing....because I couldn't possibly have run out of things to say.

 

Don't write anony internet forum advice off. If anything it's a lot more honest than what you would get from family or co-workers. We only know what you tell us. I ignored a lot of very good advice from forum go-ers on another site during a break up and really regret it. People really do know what they're talking about. Everyone thinks they could be the exception and most go against what they're told. The advice has been overwhelming in the favor of being honest with your wife and to not put all your eggs in one basket with this OW. There's a reason for that. Pay attention to it.

[2sunny]

no one is in your conscience but you. you will decide what you can live with.

 

i know this - no one uses this many words of justification when they are doing what they understand to be right... right for them. it doesn't take that much energy or convincing when the right thing is being done.

 

also - your EXPECTATIONS of your weekend will be met with reality. expectations get us tripped up in complete disappointment every time. since your expectations seem so high - you may want to consider adjusting what expectations you do have for this "fantasy weekend of a lifetime."

 

it sounds as if you will go. so go. go with the peace of mind that you did the right thing and told your W ahead of time. honesty is key. if she understands fully well the man you are - she has choices - just as you have choices.

 

your set of standards tells everything about you. what that portrays to the world is based upon whether your actions match your words. if you are honest - then you are not a liar and a cheat if you go. there is only dishonesty in keeping the secret... THAT creates the negative energy. so own up - tell it like it is. if you are so fond of her - say so... own your part in it (the way YOU participate) and be proud of your actions knowing that your actions represent the man you intend to be. what are you? who are you? do you even know? look at your actions... that is who you are!

 

at the end of each day - there is no way to argue whether or not a person's actions represent themselves. what do you intend to be - honest man or deceitful man?

[bentnotbroken]

My first comment to you>

 

That's younger than my oldest:sick: Stroke your own ego for pete's sake. 2 years older than your own child:sick:

 

 

My second comment to you>

You are entitled to live with someone who shows you passion and caring. You are entitled to live with a lover. All anyone is saying is go be with your lover. Do it! But don't hedge your bets. Your insecurities about what you will get when you leave a marriage allows you do justify the cowards way out. Don't cheat....get you behind in gear and go find that love you want. Just don't leave you wife in the wings being you fall back person. Your safety net in your old age because you are too scared to be alone if somebody gets tired of dealing with an older man as they age.

 

Very few people want to be with someone who they will end up taking care of(whether they should or not) like a parent when they are in the prime of their lives

 

My third comment to you>

She will probably be as sincere as you are right now. WWIU he doesn't want to ruin his weekend with some body's young daughter

 

All these are the comments that were made to you before you starting calling names. Not one time did I call you a name. But if you thought that I was going not respond after you posted this>

 

Bentnotbroken, I must say nobody's comments have angered me, but yours. Your "pious" profile picture, wording of "in gods grace" and your know-it-all attitude and assine assumptions, make me think you are the typical religious hypocrite.

 

I am being completely sincere. I have no reason to lie to a forum of strangers.

 

And please do not make it sound like my friend is 15, or that I am at the playground trying to con some young child into sex. She is 22. Completely an adult. Completely free to make her own decisions. Don't act like she is being led blind into this.

 

Bentnotbroken, you are crass, judgemental, and typical for most people that outwardly push their religion to people. While I very much appreciate the advice I have got from all others in this forum, I wish you would just go read your bible, tell yourself how great you are, and refrain from commenting further in this thread. In all reality, people like you make me want to vomit >>>by Foggy

 

 

Who changed the tone of the responses I made to you? You or me? You didn't like what I had to say because you know somewhere in there I am speaking the truth. If you had a 22 year old daughter(who even scientist even say has limited maturity) and some one your age was thinking of having sex with her while married.....pray tell, what would you do? How would you feel?

[Richard Friedman]

Hi Richard,

My name is Judy and I'm young, beautiful and ready to put out for you on a daily basis. I don't require mutual respect and I've just tossed all dignity and boundaries out the window. I like a man that has an outdated view of women and who is frustrated with life in general. We sound perfect for each other. Can't wait to start on my duties. Call me!

 

 

Yea........i agree that she has to meet him half way on the sex stuff or at least try (remember she has medical condition that even OP respects and is aware of) but he has to meet her half way on being honest.

 

heheh. Typical "modern woman" response. Call anyone who hints that women in marriages/relationships have obligations a misogynist pig. And call a guy who wants young beautiful girl a paedophile. I'm sure your boyfriend or husband thinks you're just wooondeerfuuul. Listen, I'll be the first call a guy who cheats on a faithful, loving wife an *******. When a wife who treats her husband like a maid and atm machine gets cheated on I'm not gonna lose an sleep over it. Welcome to adulthood. If you get married, get a job, buy a home, it comes attached with some obligations you have to fulfil.

[2sunny]

some folks use the ignore button if they don't like a certain poster... it blocks out having to read what you may not be able to face right now... just saying.

[Carrot2000]

I don't want a divorce for many reasons, in order of importance:

 

1) I really love her and care about her. It is just the complete lack of any and all affection that is tearing me up. We get along great, laugh, spend time together, helping each other out. I just don't think, after years of trying, that I can snap her out of this.

 

You're probably right about not being able to snap her out of this,and that's reason enough to end your marriage.

 

2)I don't want to give up my standard of living and have her do the same. Nobody wants to go from living in a nice house to an apartment. Nobody wants to pay lawyers and have a public hearing of their dirty laundry.

 

People do it everyday, and hell, there are some nice apartments out there! Are you saying living in a nice house that's really not a home because of the lack of affection is better than being free to find love?

 

3)I don't want my family to be angry and depressed.

 

They're going to be angry and depressed when they find out that you cheated on your wife with a kid barely older than your own. How do you think your family will perceive you once this comes out?

 

4)I want to be in a happy committed relationship. It just has to be a two way street.

 

Agreed, and one way to make it a two-way street is to be blunt with your wife and tell her that your marriage is over if she does not make an effort to get to the root of her problems. Her withdrawal of affection suggests that there is something deeper going on here than just a medical condition.

 

 

5)And yes, the thought of being alone scares me.

 

If you cheat you're going to end up alone anyway. Your marriage will be over and your personal and professional reputation tarnished (ever heard of Steve Phillips?). Plus, this girl's young boyfriend is gonna kick your ass once he finds out. Are you a good enough fighter to take down a guy in his 20s?

 

 

You deserve love and affection; you do not deserve to have an affair! If you follow through with this, where does the fantasy end? It won't be a one-time thing, and you're going to find yourself becoming more and more emotionally attached to this girl. You may not see it now, but you are setting yourself up to destroy the very things you claim you don't want to lose through divorce.

 

Look, you're going to hurt your wife one way or the other. At least being honest with her gives her a measure of dignity. You know deep down that cheating is not an acceptable alternative to telling her the truth. You're conflicted because you are considering an action that is not a reflection of who you really are, but you're at your wits end. I get that, so does everyone else here. What you're failing to acknowledge is that there are other solutions besides being unfaithful, but right now cheating just seems easier.

 

Are you not up to the challenge of having an honest conversation with your wife?

[whichwayisup]

Most importantly, if I did tell my wife all about this and let's say she did do a 180, how would I know it is sincere and not just to pacify me?

Time will tell.

 

But, it's the brutal truth. Honestly, which is going to be harder to deal with in the long run? Talking to your wife now and possibly getting an open marriage (don't tell, don't ask senario) or a divorce.. Or, you going ahead and having that fling/affair and your wife finds out. Not only will you have to deal with her, but your whole family, inlaws, close friends and maybe neighbours.

 

Divorce could be nasty and you'd pay through the nose. Where as right now if you two did talk about divorcing, it doesn't have to be nasty.

[whichwayisup]

Are you not up to the challenge of having an honest conversation with your wife?

 

I could be wrong, but this is what i think. Fear....Fear of losing control over 'how things go'. Everything is out of his hands and his wife will have say in what happens.

[2sunny]

fear is always a driving force. his fear(s):

 

IF i don't have this young gal - i will miss a lifetime opportunity

 

IF i tell my wife - i may lose her

 

IF i tell my wife - the excitement won't be present because there is excitement in secrets and doing things that are considered taboo by others

 

i may not get sex anytime soon

 

i may not be loved

 

my family will know what i am

 

my family will think i'm not a perfect husband

 

my house - i may lose it

 

my future - it is in the hands of a 22 year old gal - who will get tired of me as i age

 

i won't be able to keep a young gal happy as we get older

 

my OW will know my character and won't trust me for knowing what my character tells her about me

 

i won't trust the character of my OW since she also betrayed the man she says she loves

 

 

 

living in fear sucks! stepping into this scene just creates more of what you say you don't want= more fear. love of self respect isn't something that easily comes back after you compromise your moral compass for your OW and all the dishonesty that will come IF you don't tell your wife ahead of time. you can go - just tell your wife first - the complete truth... then you go with a clear conscience knowing you were honest.

 

on another perspective...

 

consider what you are doing. consider NOT doing it any longer. you are about to compromise all of your foundation of the man you THOUGHT you were. you have now become the man you didn't want to be... but you still have a choice - a choice to say NO MORE - before you get to a point where there is no going back. once you go there- you can't undo the way you CHOSE to participate.

[2sunny]

foggyandconfused;338340

C'mon Ladies, let be honest about one thing. You don't think most men have a secret fantasy about being with a hot young girl? Have you looked at the advertising you women so much about?

 

advertising is not a basis for compromising your value of self. fantasy is just that= fantasy. it's called fantasy because it's not real. real is your OW wiping the drool from your lips when you are 80 years old = that is real.

 

I do admit some of this is about just letting myself go and having the weekend of a lifetime. After so many years without affection, while trying hard to rekindle, I feel, in some ways, I deserve it.

 

and i deserve to have a lot of things i don't have - but it doesn't keep me from being proud of the person i am and appreciating what i DO have - i also am proud that i am content with who i am and what i represent. i haven't had sex in a long while - and i am single - but you won't find me trailing prospects just because i feel i "deserve to get laid and have a "connection" with many. i have a boundary that calls for decency. decency in myself and others. if it's not "happy, healthy and safe" i don't participate = that is my boundary. your scenario isn't "happy- healthy or safe" mainly because it's designed to cause harm to at least one- but most likely many. that's enough to decide against this plan in my world.

 

 

Many have said I need to do the right thing and how bad it would be to look for some "action" on the side. Only a few have said that my wife deserves some of the blame in this. I do admit I am at fault, but again you women that make the generalizations that "He only thinks with his penis," "She could never be into you," "It will end badly," etc may be right in the sense of probability, but you cannot guess what will happen. Maybe at this point I feel telling her I am connecting will result in another half hearted attempt to con me into thinking things will be different. Can you really chance someone this late in the game?

 

those are a lot of generalizations and assumptions designed to justify bad behavior. who cares what others think - what does YOUR conscience tell you when you listen with a clear head?

 

If my friend is not into me, what is the point of her wasting time going on this trip?

 

she has an agenda, i assure you. you may not know what it is now - but you are likely to find out what it is once you step into the dark side. once you're in - it's tough to get out. do you really want to go there?

 

 

She worked with me for one semester, a little more than 2 years ago. I would not lose my job for hooking up with her. She is 22. She has been out of my work for years and now out of school. She has nothing to gain, professionally, from all of this. Perhaps she just wants to have a fantasy weekend of her own, before she moves on the post-college and the hectic life that comes with it. Perhaps she really could want something long term?

 

you can't control her. and this is a lot MORE words from you trying to justify. remember, justification is a prominent character defect.

 

 

Is there any other reason, outside of liking me, that she would be wanting to do this? I am not poor, but not rich by any sense of the word. What other motives could she have?

 

why not? when i was young and stupid - i did many things i had no business doing. why do you need to know? she probably sees some reason to take you for a ride... why not?

 

who cares what she may or may not want? what does your wife want? you are MARRIED to her, remember? IF you put half the effort into your W instead of your fantasy gal - you may have some useful connection at home, with your wife.

 

 

 

you continue to avoid answering simple questions i previously asked. the posts are now further back. please help us to understand better how to help you. providing more justification about how you intend to be selfish and self serving at others expense is not helping. answer questions people ask.

 

i would appreciate your honest answers in order to gain clear perspective about the info i asked you to provide.

Edited May 6, 2011 by 2sunny

[vsmini]

Foggy - 2SUNNY is right in every way. In fact - they put it beautifully and it's downright inspiring how well someone can convey their strong position in character and morality. 2Sunny - you're my hero.

 

Foggy - you gotta answer his questions. You know they're right, don't you?

[Eve]

2Sunny Well put!

 

OP, it is simply a matter of finishing what you have started and approaching new situations on your own strength. You have no right to involve your wife in all of this. Regardless of her lack of affection, she didn't sign up for this. She needs to know what's going on.

 

Bottom line, you have used your wife as an emotional pivot here to gain the affection of another woman, so you have already been unfaithful. This is a very hurtful thing to do. Imagine if your wife did this to you?

 

Why is this so bad? There is a high probability that without these stories about your wife, there would be no challenge for this other young woman. You have no right to include your wife in this. Think about it really hard... Optimally, without the stories about your wife, really you are just going off with someone who is willing to cheat on her partner.

 

H'mmm... it seems that what is uniting you both is an essence of 'deserving' to have an affair. Not sure how the young lady eases her conscience.. what's the story with her boyfriend? This is all wrong because of how the other two people are being used by the both of you.

 

Of course it could all work out fine, (to the standards that you both feel acceptable) but there are other people who need to know that you do not need them anymore first. Anything other than this is to misuse your place in your marriage and her, her place in her relationship.

 

Your wife may not want you anymore anyway and agree that you can go! She too may just want the financial aspect of your union. Many are happy like this. But she needs to be able to make her own choices within this too.. for no other reason than because she was there first.

 

I would be all grief stricken if my Hubby didn't want me sexually anymore. You don't seem at all grieved and neither does your wife. Telling her where you are really at may bring to life lots of hidden feelings and maybe you could both work through this? The end result may not be that the marriage survives but you will be properly free to do as you please.

 

If you don't work things out with your wife and move on, I reckon her gynecological problems could possibly clear up once you are gone. I have known people get ill and all sorts when with someone who they can't fully trust. I suppose our senses pick things up that often we don't want to admit we see or hear.

 

Still, I wish you well and hope you don't end up with even more problems.

 

Sort things out stage by stage because if it all gets mixed up it will be difficult to unravel what emotions come from where. Most notably, I hope that the highly probably outcome of eventually being left by this younger woman doesn't end up being the way that any deeply hidden feelings of grief for the loss of your sex life with your wife comes to the surface.

 

Right now, you are about to cheat. Deal with this openly and sort out what's happening with your wife once and for all.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[martini-mae]

As I age -- what I've noticed in the last maybe 5-10 years is that MOST young girls in their 20's that go after men in your age bracket do it because they are looking for a Sugar Daddy. They aren't looking for sex perse. They are looking for a lifestyle.

Most kids (yes, she is a kid) in that age bracket feel some entitlement. They're looking for what their parents have - Immediate Gratification. Instead of working for it.

 

You are taking her on an all expense paid trip. What's she going to want from you after this trip is over? A new apartment? Some clothes? Another trip?

 

I'm assuming that thru all of your lunch dates she is aware that you're married? Right? If you let this blossom into a full fledged affair you better be prepared for fallout. BTW- if you're keeping these lunch dates a secret from your wife - you're in a sense cheating already.

[foggyandconfused]

Eve,

 

Your last post, in my opinion, is the most well thought out and best advice I have received. Thank you. I do disagree that I used my wife as an "emotional pivot to gain the affection of another woman." I never lied, misled, played a sympathy "woe is me" card, or have even talked about my situation at home with my friend. I do not call her "the other woman" yet, since no physical activity has occurred.

 

I am on the fence as to whether becoming close friends with someone of the opposite sex and sharing feelings with them is cheating. Am I close to cheating? Yes. Have I yet? I do not fully agree.

 

I have shared personal feelings and deep thought with a best friend, who is a guy I have known for 30 years and that is not considered cheating. I have not talked to him about this, though. think women invented the term "emotional friend" and feel they deserve all the attention, all the emotion and every drop of everything. That is what I get from a few posters in this forum.

 

I am only at my current place because of all the frustration, resulting from years of trying to solve this problem. I am not sure I understand the "challenge" part. There was no challenge. I don't think either of us (myself or my friend) would have imagined being in this position six months ago. It was just a friendship, where feelings began to develop. I was not looking for this, or trying to find a "challange" or "conquest." I could do that easily and could have years ago. This is much deeper and different.

 

The story of her boyfriend? I do not know, just as she really does not yet know the details of my home life.

 

If I do move on and my wife's medical problems clear up, I would be happy for her. I really do not think her problems are psychosomatic. I would still be hurt by losing the longest relationship I have ever had, but perhaps that is what it will take for both of us to truly be happy?

 

I have talked about this problem until I am just so sick of getting essentially no reply. It is a self-esteem problem? Surely it is. At home I feel unwanted and uncared about. I want to tell my wife about what is happening, but don't know if I can before this trip. I have told her many time that this could likely lead to divorce and she really doesn't give a serious reply. She just says I need to mellow out and we move on.

 

I just do not want the drama at this time. For once I just want to get away and shut out the world. Still not sure which direction I will go yet, this forum has got me thinking a lot about it and offered some perspectives I had not thought about. I do not like being twisted in these different directions.

[foggyandconfused]

As I age -- what I've noticed in the last maybe 5-10 years is that MOST young girls in their 20's that go after men in your age bracket do it because they are looking for a Sugar Daddy. They aren't looking for sex perse. They are looking for a lifestyle.

Most kids (yes, she is a kid) in that age bracket feel some entitlement. They're looking for what their parents have - Immediate Gratification. Instead of working for it.

 

You are taking her on an all expense paid trip. What's she going to want from you after this trip is over? A new apartment? Some clothes? Another trip?

 

I'm assuming that thru all of your lunch dates she is aware that you're married? Right? If you let this blossom into a full fledged affair you better be prepared for fallout. BTW- if you're keeping these lunch dates a secret from your wife - you're in a sense cheating already.

 

Sorry most of this reply is way off base. She is not looking for a sugar daddy. She comes from a professional family that lives in a house that costs twice what mine does. She has offered to pay some expenses for this trip. I told her thanks but it was not necessary. She has known I was married from the first week we met, almost 3 years ago.

 

I go to lunch with a lot of people, male and female. I have had lunch with other women, who I thought were attractive. That is not cheating.

 

The only part of your reply that makes sense is the part about fallout and I am thinking a lot about that.