Do you believe in a God??

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by wideawake

This is a nice summary of my own feelings about religion. (hence the agnostic comment above, though I would kind of like to find SOMETHING to believe in...besides myself that is)

 

Gods step out of the fabrics that we humans weave, when we're done with them, they fade away.

 

Ask any of those old Egyptian gods.

 

You ever read Neil Gaiman Hoke?

 

Neil Gaiman? Does he write comic book stories? Something called Sandman? I can't say I've ever read any of his work.

 

I like the 'Gods step out of the fabrics that we humans weave' I may put that on a T-shirt.

 

Kind of frightening what others creatures step out of those fabrics!

[wideawake]

Originally posted by HokeyReligions

Neil Gaiman? Does he write comic book stories? Something called Sandman? I can't say I've ever read any of his work.

 

Sure does. Though I would put his work up in a section titled "Literature".

 

It's pretty good stuff, just in a different format.

 

Anyway, most of his stories revolve around how we create our own gods via our human needs.

 

You might want to check some of his stuff out...let me know if you want any recs.

 

Just send the t-shirt to:

 

wideawake

c/o all of the old hellenistic gods

Mt. Olympus

Greece

[jmargel]

I believe in God, he's the one that helped my brother get through cancer. He's the one that has helped me through some very hard times. I would question him alot, on why things happen the way they do, but everything has a reason. Everyone has to take a different road to achieve their happiness.

 

From another point of view without believing in God you have everything to lose. For example, to the athetist or the person who doesn't know what to think about this subject: It is all about faith. When you goto the grocery store and buy a can of soup with a label on it, you buy it with the faith that its going to be that kind of soup that you purchased. Religion is the same way, all about faith.

 

If you believe in God and when you die you have a chance to goto heaven. If you believe in God and he doesn't exist, what do you have to lose? Nothing. By believing in him and him not existing you haven't hurt yourself or society. In fact by believing in God, whether he exists or not, it will make you a better person morally.

 

If you don't believe in God and one does exist, then you are in for some pretty rough times in your afterlife. If you don't believe in him and he doesnt exist what do you get out of it? Nothing.

 

So using this rationing of thought, your best course of action would be to believe in him. If we 'knew' God didn't exist would morales drop in society as a whole? I would think they would.

[morrigan]

I believe in God as the entirety of the world, not as a separate entity outside of it.

 

To be honest, I have always felt more close to Jesus--he was born into this world, he lived among us, he had the same happiness and fears many of us have had about life.

 

Unlike a number of Christians, I believe in Jesus' divinity, but I don't think that it made him perfect. I think that even though he was God's son, and he had a purpose in this world, he learned from experiences in his life that made him a stronger person.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by jmargel

In fact by believing in God, whether he exists or not, it will make you a better person morally.

If we 'knew' God didn't exist would morales drop in society as a whole? I would think they would.

 

Do you think that people who do not believe in god have no morals or substantially different morals? That is not true at all.

 

What would you consider a drop in societies morality? God and Morality have nothing to do with each other.

[hurtingandconfused]

If you believe in God and he doesn't exist, what do you have to lose?

You have everything to lose. If you focus you life to God and he does not exist ...everything that you stood for meant nothing. All the worship, all the prayers meant nothing. You were lost in your own world.

 

I don't believe that believing in God should be only the only way to go to heaven. You have to obey his laws and really "believe" in him.

 

If we 'knew' God didn't exist would morales drop in society as a whole?

Is that why the bible was created? People knew that if there were no rules/laws to live by the world would be in chaos.

 

As you can tell I am questioning these things. I have not given up on God. I like to say that I do believe in him also. But I do not have a reason to believe him. I can tell you that things happen for reasons, and that is what makes us better as individuals. I can say that life is a cycle of our ancestors. Everything that happens in the past comes back around to us and we experience a similar thing.

 

How many people do you think "heaven" can hold? (considering that there are millions / billions/ trillions of people that have died.) If we go there would it be like a mini reunion? (your opinions of course)

[sweetbilly]

I would like to point out that morality, and human understanding of morality, is solely based upon our understanding of Gods word, in other words te bible. without God there would be no understanding of morality, and subsequently chaos would reign, just like it does in every country that lacks the judeo christain bible.

[morrigan]

I've met nice Christians (including Mennonites, Jehovah Witnesses, and Mormons), atheists, Hindus, Muslims, agnostics, Buddhists, and Satanists. I'm sure there are many nice Jews, Amish, Scientologists, Shintos, and other faiths, but I haven't met anyone whom I knew was of one of those faiths.

 

I'm just as sure that each of those religions (and those who have no relgious faith) have unpleasant people as well. While I agree religion can inspire a person to improve their own self, I don't think that's always the case. Morality is separate, in my mind, from religion, that is just my opinion. A person's own free will determines how they will behave.

[Arabess]

This is ONLY my opinion:

 

God isn't about 'morality'.....He gave guidelines to help you avoid pitfalls. Let's take 'adultry'....if you don't play....you wouldn't have to pay. Is the price BIG? You bet.....check the OW threads. It's much the same as when we tell our kids not to play in the road.

 

Jesus, who to me is God in the flesh, said....I knew you wouldn't keep the guidelines....so I'm here to help you out of it when you screw up.

 

Therefore, having a personal relationship with Jesus is important to me. I screw up often. He helps me out.

 

Again, this is ONLY my opinion....but it has always worked for me.

[HokeyReligions]

Morality is an issue that has chased man through his existence. The decision of what is right or wrong must be made individually by every human being through his or her lifetime. How this decision is made varies greatly from person to person. Such factors as environment (i.e., current political issues, family life, religion, and geographical location) and internal issues (i.e., mental disabilities such as retardation or a chemical imbalance in the brain) have impact of this decision.

 

But what is morality? What does it mean to "be moral"? Well, Webster's encyclopedic unabridged dictionary of the English language defines "moral" as:

"1. Of, or pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes. . . ."

And "morality" as: ". . . A doctrine or system of morals. . . ."

Basically, morals are the relative right or wrong.

 

 

http://www.puaf.umd.edu/courses/puaf650/supplement2.htm

A SHORT DISCOURSE ON MORALITY

 

I. INTRODUCTION

What is morality? Sometimes this question seems so formidable that students get stuck right here. They needn't. Morality is something quite familiar to everyone.

Start this way: think of morality as a vocabulary with a particular function (or better: a set of functions).

(i)

Here are some examples of the vocabulary. We can describe someone as generous, miserly, kind, good-hearted, selfish, decent, malicious, courteous, venal, cruel, faithful, fair-minded, arrogant, conscientious. We can distinguish acts of courage, ingratitude, atonement, reciprocity, injustice, civility, retribution, kindness. We can recommend such values and ideals as liberty, autonomy, community, veracity, happiness, loyalty; and warn against their opposites, slavery, oppression, mendacity, and the like. Moreover, we respond to conduct by ourselves and others with the distinctive moral emotions: outrage, shame, guilt, remorse, pride, indignation, fellow-feeling, sympathy.

In sum: by means of a moral vocabulary, we can characterize people, actions, states of the world, ideals, goals, and emotions........

 

 

 

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/whatismorality.html

Good and evil are labels of human behavior, and do not exist outside of the human mind. That does not make evil "okay". Evil is still bad. But it is bad because we HUMANS think it is bad, NOT because some god says it is. Evil is not from the rejection of a belief in god. Most of the evil in this country is done by those who believe in god and the bible. The prisons are filled with believers. I NEVER SAID there was no moral standard. I HAVE a moral standard. YOU HAVE a moral standard. On many points they are the same. On some they are different. You imagine yours was given to you by god. I realize that mine has been constructed by my upbringing, society and intellect.

[hurtingandconfused]

Germany during 1939-1944, swore they lived by the bible and God's words. Does that mean that they were morally correct?

[wideawake]

Originally posted by jmargel If you don't believe in God and one does exist, then you are in for some pretty rough times in your afterlife

 

Why? Do you presume to know gods mind? Do you think that a god would be so petty as to punish anyone that didn't follow whatever your choosen faith is? You're making assumptions based on your own belief system that simply don't hold up to logic.

 

 

 

Originally posted by morrigan

I've met nice Christians (including Mennonites, Jehovah Witnesses, and Mormons), atheists, Hindus, Muslims, agnostics, Buddhists, and Satanists. I'm sure there are many nice Jews, Amish, Scientologists, Shintos, and other faiths, but I haven't met anyone whom I knew was of one of those faiths.

 

I just think it's amazing that you've met some Satanists, but no Jews. Or friggin' Amish or Scientologists for that matter. I actually agree with your post, I just think it's wack.

 

 

Originally posted by sweetbilly

I would like to point out that morality, and human understanding of morality, is solely based upon our understanding of Gods word, in other words te bible. without God there would be no understanding of morality, and subsequently chaos would reign, just like it does in every country that lacks the judeo christain bible.

 

Sweety,

 

Two thousand five hundred and fifty years ago Buddha wrote, "Put an end to evil, fulfill all good, and purify the mind". Long before Christ was born, way prior to the new testament, which you have already stated on this forum is the only bible you follow.

 

Morality is an aspect of any society, and certainly does not confine itself to the Judeo-Christian Faith.

 

For further examples of how societies have incorporated moral codes into their framework, please review the following works, all of which pre-date Christ.

 

Aristotle, "Nicomachean Ethics"

Plato, "Euthyphro" or "Lysis"

Plutarch, "Life of Themistocles"

[Arabess]

I think that you will rarely find God in the dealings of man or his interpretation of God. The true quest can only be accomplished in your own heart.

 

I agree with Hokey.....having God in your life does not make you moral or immoral. IT SHOULD...but we are pretty stubborn. We are like 4 year olds with crayons near a hall wall. We can't help ourselves.

 

This doesn't make God any more or less real though. His validity isn't subject to our actions.

[morrigan]

Quote---"I just think it's amazing that you've met some Satanists, but no Jews. Or friggin' Amish or Scientologists for that matter. I actually agree with your post, I just think it's wack. "

 

Well, I go to a lot of metal concerts, some of the big ones. A lot of the people are either athiests, agnostics, or satanists, some buddhists and hindus as well. I went to college with kids from other areas and ethnicities.

 

As far as satanists are concerned, I'm talking about the ones in the actual Church of Satan of San Francisco--not people who believe in sacrfices and worship the devil. True satanists don't believe in that bull. Satanism, like Buddhism is more of a philosophy than the actual worship of an entity.

 

I live in a rural area--there is a Mennonite community nearby, not an Amish one. They do construction and repair work locally.

[SB]

Germany was deceived by the teachings of Darwin, of which I might ad, contradict all the teachings in the Bible. And, in fact, deny the existance of any diety - these actions were also never condemned by the Roman Catholic church, which in my opinion incriminates them. This is what happens when man devises his own form of morality; it always ends in disaster. The morality of Hitler and prewar Germany under the theories of Darwin were eugenics. The elimination of the so-called inferior human races!

 

Actually wideawake, none of those predate Christ. some of the same teachings that are taught today were written more than five-thousand years ago, and there is a belief in the Christain church that some of the teachings of Buddah and the like were actually the misconstrued teachings taught before, and after, the historical flood.

 

If you read the book of John and Genesis, which, I might add, were written thousnds of years apart, you would understand that God was speaking to someone else when he said "Let's make man in OUR image." Who's us? Did God have a mouse in his pocket? or is he actually talking to Jesus. Several times throughout the Bible, Jesus is referred to as "the Spirit of the Lord before his birth," and after his death he is referred to differently.

 

The Bible was written TO expose the mind of God to man so we could be saved. God has no secrets from man! To suggest that God is incapable of (or unwilling) to expose his thoughts to us would make him a cruel and unjust God; just like Allah.

[sweetbilly]

I would like to point out that Germany-and the Soviet Union-did not form their beliefs form scripture. It was formed from the teachings of Darwin, who believed in eugenics: the theory that certain races of man are inferior to other races. Darwin never believed in any kind of diety. And if you'll look at the evidence anytime man tried to form his own kind of morality it always ended in disaster. Man may form his own kind of moral reality, but without GODS instruction we are doomed to continue making the same mistakes over and over again.

 

Wideawake that's the reason for the bible: TO know the mind of God. God would be cruel--like Allah--if he didn't reveal his feelings and thoughts about salvation etc...to man. The physical Jesus may not have out dated them but his teachings do. The judeo christains teachings go back more than five-thousand-years. which predate the historic flood or anyone you mentioned.

 

you're right hokey, man has looked for morality throughout his entire existance, that's because in our heart we know there is a moral standard; without God he will never find it. If this is wrong and there is no God or moral standard. Then why care about anything? If there is no God why follow any law? Just kill anyone you want. Why suffer through poverty, and civilizations useless laws if there's no ultimate punishment. From an athiestic stand-point following laws should be insane when all you have to do is take what you want! Yet, kill a man and feel the inate high followed immediately by an inate fear. With no God fear of what?

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by sweetbilly

I would like to point out that Germany-and the Soviet Union-did not form their beliefs form scripture. It was formed from the teachings of Darwin, who believed in eugenics: the theory that certain races of man are inferior to other races. Darwin never believed in any kind of diety. And if you'll look at the evidence anytime man tried to form his own kind of morality it always ended in disaster. Man may form his own kind of moral reality, but without GODS instruction we are doomed to continue making the same mistakes over and over again.

 

Wideawake that's the reason for the bible: TO know the mind of God. God would be cruel--like Allah--if he didn't reveal his feelings and thoughts about salvation etc...to man. The physical Jesus may not have out dated them but his teachings do. The judeo christains teachings go back more than five-thousand-years. which predate the historic flood or anyone you mentioned.

 

you're right hokey, man has looked for morality throughout his entire existance, that's because in our heart we know there is a moral standard; without God he will never find it. If this is wrong and there is no God or moral standard. Then why care about anything? If there is no God why follow any law? Just kill anyone you want. Why suffer through poverty, and civilizations useless laws if there's no ultimate punishment. From an athiestic stand-point following laws should be insane when all you have to do is take what you want! Yet, kill a man and feel the inate high followed immediately by an inate fear. With no God fear of what?

 

You are really skewed in your thinking and reasoning abilities (or lack of). You need to do some serious research and study to know what you are talking about. Your narrow, uninformed opinions are making christians look bad!

 

Humans had morals long before they had god.

[sweetbilly]

Yea, hoping to see man actually better himself always qualifies as "scewed thinking". I can tell, you're a real thinker hokey.

[wideawake]

Originally posted by sweetbilly The judeo christains teachings go back more than five-thousand-years. which predate the historic flood or anyone you mentioned.

 

First...please learn to spell Christian correctly. (sorry, but it's been annoying me)

 

Second...The United States of America is the ONLY country in history to have defined itself as Judeo-Christian. Period. So that's what? Way less than 300 years?

 

Prior to Christ is was just Judaism sweet thang....How can you have Judeo-Christian prior to Christ? Huh? You can't.

 

So don't take your right-wing terms that have ONLY been used for the last 100 years and try and make a point about teachings going back five-thousand years!

 

You want to say that the Jews had the old testament and that pre-dates some of the Greek scholars...fine. But Christ and Christian faith had NOTHING to do with that. Period. Historical fact.

[morrigan]

Everyone here is thinking and posting their own opinions, based on personal experiences and reflections, on an open forum.

[hurtingandconfused]

I would like to point out that Germany-and the Soviet Union-did not form their beliefs form scripture.

I never said that Germany created their believe system from/through the bible. What I meant was Hitler had his own interpretations of the bible and used it for his own benefit. Does that make it morally correct?

 

Here are some of his qoutes :

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html

[sweetbilly]

hurting we're saying the same thing.

[Bill]

People believe in God on faith. I'll take Pascal's Wager.

[Micheal]

i totally agree with hokey,religion doesnt hurt u morally, ita affects u mentally at the way u see things.most christains would see a bum and think hes trash and not even give a second thought but most regular people would look and say hes a man on hard times. and not judge him. religion got f"ed up the moment it got organized like modt things and ran by people with agendas.religion is more of an excuse than anythings esle nowadays.if we didnt die ,we wouldnt care and one day religion will be the stuff of fairy tales .when we finally reach agood point in science,it is inevtible.well thats just my opinion/and im a very good guy.but i dont have to have god to do that ,it kinda all me baby.

[Arabess]

Originally posted by wideawake

 

You want to say that the Jews had the old testament and that pre-dates some of the Greek scholars...fine. But Christ and Christian faith had NOTHING to do with that. Period. Historical fact.

 

A person who is a Christian believes Jesus IS God. He's been here the WHOLE time. He even created mankind....some who became those Greek scholars who expounded on their own version of the truth.

 

Jesus became the Son of God because he inhabited a human body. However, He was still 100% God and 100% man. To a Christian, their God who later came to earth as the Messiah named Jesus, is the same God from the Old Testament text. Due to this, they believe he predates ALL other gods.

 

Granted, their 'historical fact' may not line up with yours, but for a Christian it's very valid.