Psychology of Abused Women?

[djhall]

I am looking for good resources on understanding the psychology of women in abusive relationships and the challenges they face in transitioning out of the abusive situation and into healthy relationships.

 

Good books, forums, websites, support groups, or even people who've been there and are willing to talk at length about it are all appreciated.

 

(Edit: I will be at work all day and unable to respond to this thread until late evening, not due to lack of interest but lack of internet.)

[Heart On]

I have the market on that subject.

 

I could write my own book as I lived it and learned the hard way.

 

First off,ANYTHING about Love addiction,Codependency,Betrayal bonding,

 

Stockholm Syndrome,Trama Bonding,Adult Children of alcoholics,and

 

depending on her childhood Family of Origin(FOO).

 

For all you know,there could be roots in her

 

conditioning that stemmed from sexual or physical abuse that keep her

 

enmeshed within abusive relationships.That is usually the case and it's

 

deeply engrained and a hard cycle to break.

 

There are tons and tons of books out there.

 

Even more websites.

 

I have read most of them.

 

I can give you some sites and books,but really,if this is about someone

 

you know and can't FIX or change or rescue,why would I offer you them?

 

If anything,you need to realize that the only person you have any control

 

over is YOU and YOUR reaction to them.

 

I know you have rescue compulsions,as do most people who have been

 

abused in some way themselves.People who have been victims in thier

 

childhoods go on to become either victims,rescuers or perpetrators in thier

 

adult lives.

 

SHE has to break the cycle,find this information for herself,WANT to change

 

and follow thru with it.

 

Therapy only helps if the person is not in denial,and chooses on thier own

 

to get healthy.Ironically,I know ALOT about this subject as I was molested as a child,raised by an Alcoholic Narcissistic Foster Mother and abandoned by both of my birth parents and that lead me to marrying a verballya busive alcoholic husband whom I left after 24 years of tears.

 

BUT...that being said...NO ONE could EVER TALK ME OUT OF THAT RELATIONSHIP.I had to find my own way out.I thought I found the way,but wound up in the hands of an even bigger exploitive man and about lost my sanity and life.

 

Today,I am full of WISDUM and COMPASSION for those who are abused and find that I have a serious problem with projection identification and sit in forums trying to help others find thier way out of all sorts of pain.

 

I can poiint my finger,but I can't make ANYONE look.

 

They have to already be seeking help for themselves and no one can rescue them from themselves.

 

I meant it when I said,SHE will take you down with her if you persist on trying to change her thinking or help her.

 

For all you know,she is lying to you,Bi-polar,Borderline,or Narcissistic.

 

She may simply be into triangulating men and making herself look like a victim.Happens ALOT hon.

 

So please....be aware that the only person you can help in this is you.

 

YOU need to take care of you and let her take care of herself.

 

That being said......I can give you ALOT of inside information,but really,

if she is married and with a man she claims abuses her,and doesn't want to leave,what can you do but walk away and let her figure it all out on her own even if it tugs at your heart strings and you want to save her from herself,you just can't.

 

K.

[betterdeal]

Three books that stand out for me:

 

The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing

 

Boundaries and Relationships: Knowing, Protecting and Enjoying the Self

 

Lost in the Mirror: An Inside Look at Borderline Personality Disorder

 

Good for men and women who have been abused and have abused.

[Irishlove]

I am looking for good resources on understanding the psychology of women in abusive relationships and the challenges they face in transitioning out of the abusive situation and into healthy relationships.

 

Good books, forums, websites, support groups, or even people who've been there and are willing to talk at length about it are all appreciated.

 

(Edit: I will be at work all day and unable to respond to this thread until late evening, not due to lack of interest but lack of internet.)

Mine experience went like this....mother hit me and verbally abused me until one day I had it and snapped on her. It was her messed up head SHE had to deal with and nothing I did.

I married an alcoholic that eventually got physical. I stayed because I figured I was tough enough to handle it and I would get him away from the alcohol and it would be fine.

I went to support groups and learned I had to work on me and me only, not him. I took it upon myself before I learned all that though to invite him over and I beat the hell out of him and he never touched me again after that I believe because he knew I wasn't playing and the next time one of us was going in a hurse and it wasn't going to be me.

He got sober. I fell out of love and moved on. He never touched me after I beat his azz. Ask me if you want in depth details.

I set my boundaries in stone now. I will not allow a man to swear at me nor yell. If he does he is gone. I did not like the person abuse made me become. I hate that I hurt him because that is not who I was. That was who he was. I learned from my mother.

Someone told me about the honeymoon cycle and that helped a great deal to see how he was. I'm a survivor and so is he. Alcohol can not be in a relationship. No addiction.

[djhall]

Thank you to everyone who responded, and I will look into the books that were recommended.

 

I can give you some sites and books,but really,if this is about someone you know and can't FIX or change or rescue,why would I offer you them?

...

I know you have rescue compulsions,as do most people who have been abused in some way themselves.

...

I meant it when I said,SHE will take you down with her if you persist on trying to change her thinking or help her.

For those who may wonder, this info came from another thread. And I don't really disagree with you. To clarify the situation a little, I was in a close relationship with a girl where I watched her life go to hell with an abusive boyfriend. I knew nothing of the psychology of such relationships and assumed it was pretty simple... who was the better guy, him or me? I tried like hell to save her and ended up ripping my own life apart, failing to save her, and moving out of state with no forwarding address to save myself.

 

Very recently, more than 15 years after I left, we spoke again on her birthday in our first contact since. She eventually got herself out of that situation, got her life stable for several years, and then got involved with another abusive boyfriend. She may (of course, I'm skeptical) be trying to get out again. I'd rather not change my number and hide for another ten years, but I'd also rather not throw myself under a bus either (metaphorically speaking).

 

Since that first time I have learned enough about the psychology of these relationships to know that it isn't a simple situation where a person can be "externally" rescued, and that failure isn't reflective of the person trying to do the rescuing. I know I have strong predisposition toward wanting to "save" this girl. I know this contact is potentially very dangerous for my emotional well being, and I know need to know much more about what I'm dealing with and have some sort of support network if I'm going to have any chance of surviving any further contact without losing my emotional sanity.

[Vesna]

Has anyone ever come across a site called 'Making Daughters Safe Again?" I found it when I typed the words 'my mother sexually abused me' and I didn't feel alone after that.

 

I have also read a book called 'Will I ever be good enough?' by Karyl McBride. It is a self help book for daughters of narcisstic mothers.

 

On this Mother's Day, I gave myself a present, made a special breakfast just for me and filled my home with flowers. I don't have kids. I only have me. I was too afraid to have kids in case they were girls and they would go through the Hell that my mother put me through and her mother put her through.

 

That disastrous buck stopped with me and every morning I wake up feeling very disappointed that I am still alive. Cest la vie.

[betterdeal]

djhall given your story, I highly recommend you read all three books I suggested. The little red riding hood (victim), wolf (abuser) and woodsman (rescuer) are typical behaviours in troubled relationships, and they are more often than not interchanged. That is to say, all people involved hurt the others, get hurt by the others and try to take care of one another.

 

My advice is to work on separating compassion from your own needs. You can care about her wellbeing without taking care of her at your expense. The more I have healed, and resolved my past, the less I feel the urge to rescue. My theory is that we get involved with people who are in the same metaphysical space as us. Thus when I was more unwell, more injured, I got involved with someone who was similarly as injured. And as I find more ways to make myself better, I am less needy for someone else to do that for me. And that's the kind of person I like nowadays.

 

Being able to say, "I can't help you" as a last resort is a powerful way to protect your well-being.

[Heart On]

Has anyone ever come across a site called 'Making Daughters Safe Again?" I found it when I typed the words 'my mother sexually abused me' and I didn't feel alone after that.

 

I have also read a book called 'Will I ever be good enough?' by Karyl McBride. It is a self help book for daughters of narcisstic mothers.

 

On this Mother's Day, I gave myself a present, made a special breakfast just for me and filled my home with flowers. I don't have kids. I only have me. I was too afraid to have kids in case they were girls and they would go through the Hell that my mother put me through and her mother put her through.

 

That disastrous buck stopped with me and every morning I wake up feeling very disappointed that I am still alive. Cest la vie.

 

 

I just wanted to extend my sympathies for your situation.

It made me very sad to imagine the pain you have endured in your life and thanks to my own projection identification,or ability to project my own pain onto your situation and relate,I can't help but feel compassion for you.

 

I wanted to wish you an "un-mothers day" and let you know that while you may feel very alone,your choice to not procreate may just have stopped the cycle of abuse you and your mother suffered.

 

I also wanted to tell you that while it happened to you,it's not necessarily a pattern that you couldn't have broken with therapy and support and the knowledge that you would NEVER do to you what was done to you.

 

I may have been sexually abused as a child,raised by a Narcissist and am an adult child of an Alcoholic,I have NEVER done to me,what was done to me,More the opposite if anything.

 

 

djhall

given your story, I highly recommend you read all three books I suggested. The little red riding hood (victim), wolf (abuser) and woodsman (rescuer) are typical behaviours in troubled relationships, and they are more often than not interchanged. That is to say, all people involved hurt the others, get hurt by the others and try to take care of one another.

 

My advice is to work on separating compassion from your own needs. You can care about her wellbeing without taking care of her at your expense. The more I have healed, and resolved my past, the less I feel the urge to rescue. My theory is that we get involved with people who are in the same metaphysical space as us. Thus when I was more unwell, more injured, I got involved with someone who was similarly as injured. And as I find more ways to make myself better, I am less needy for someone else to do that for me. And that's the kind of person I like nowadays.

 

Being able to say, "I can't help you" as a last resort is a powerful way to protect your well-being.

 

Excellent post.Sometimes that is much easier said than done though.

I didn't 'waste" 24 years trying to save my xH because I was healthy though.Nor did I protect a professional who sexually exploited me at my own expense because I understood my own issues or how easily I betrayal bonded to men.AT one point,I could answer YES to every single question.

 

http://www.sexhelp.com/betrayal_bond.cfm

 

 

BUT.....there IS light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Knowledge is power.

 

Our part may have these elements:

 

http://urbanyhc.com/urbantalk/2010/the-victim-rescuer-predator-triangle/

 

http://www.abandonment.net/abando.frame.html

 

http://www.worldhealing.net/theawakening.html

 

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Peabody5.html

 

http://www.allaboutcounseling.com/codependency.htm

 

http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/go/codependency

 

http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/mental_health/codependency.htm

 

http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/2006/08/savior-complex.html

 

http://www.peopleskillsdecoded.com/savior-complex/

 

http://sniggle.net/stock.php

 

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/ritual_abuse/50317

 

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/vanderkolk/

 

 

Thier part may have these:

 

http://www.lovefraud.com/Articles_in_Lovefraud_Blog.html

 

http://www.narcissisticabuse.com/characteristics.html

 

http://www.abandonment.net/profile_an_abandoner_fr.html

 

 

 

So yeah,read on and on and on and find out what makes sense

about your role and choices and reactions to others and learn

what is healthy and what isn't.While it sometimes happens that

we actually are victims,what matters most is learning the signs of

a predator,learning that we have a right to happiness and learning that all we have ANY control over is our reaction to abusers.

 

And yes,if this woman is somehow "using you" to complain to about her abusive situation,she is dragging you into her problems and triangulating you and that alone isn't healthy for you or right of her to do!

 

But as I have heard before,no one has a gun to your head!

 

It feels like an emotional gun and for some of us,pity ploys go a LONGGG way to gaining our sympathies because we know just what it is like to be abused,we are much more vulnerable to abusers who use us.

 

Taking personal responsibility is KEY to change.

 

Wishing you healing and happiness!

 

K.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Heart On

[PollyIvy]

Mine experience went like this....mother hit me and verbally abused me until one day I had it and snapped on her. It was her messed up head SHE had to deal with and nothing I did.

I married an alcoholic that eventually got physical. I stayed because I figured I was tough enough to handle it and I would get him away from the alcohol and it would be fine.

I went to support groups and learned I had to work on me and me only, not him. I took it upon myself before I learned all that though to invite him over and I beat the hell out of him and he never touched me again after that I believe because he knew I wasn't playing and the next time one of us was going in a hurse and it wasn't going to be me.

He got sober. I fell out of love and moved on. He never touched me after I beat his azz. Ask me if you want in depth details.

I set my boundaries in stone now. I will not allow a man to swear at me nor yell. If he does he is gone. I did not like the person abuse made me become. I hate that I hurt him because that is not who I was. That was who he was. I learned from my mother.

Someone told me about the honeymoon cycle and that helped a great deal to see how he was. I'm a survivor and so is he. Alcohol can not be in a relationship. No addiction.

The highlighted part. When I grow up, I want to be like you.

I am in the process of separating from Mr Perfect who also happens to be loony tunes. He never hit me or the kids, but me and our eldest child are the focus for his hostility. My eldest is 11. WTF.

I realize that I have very soft boundaries and hold on, hold on, hold on as long as I can. In this case, 15 years. I am an ACOA, and it is normal for me to love and forgivesomeone who doesn't always treat me right or behave correctly. I actually have no idea what 'normal' is.

Thanks for the above. Swearing and yelling = not ok. I will remember that...

[Hiproornefeli]

cute! thank you.

 

 

 

באבלסמשחקי בישול הלבשת בובות

[Heart On]

I went to support groups and learned I had to work on me and me only, not him. I took it upon myself before I learned all that though to invite him over and I beat the hell out of him and he never touched me again after that I believe because he knew I wasn't playing and the next time one of us was going in a hurse and it wasn't going to be me.

 

I hear that!

 

I tried the same tactic.He spit in my face and called me every name in the book.Pulled a chair down in front of me and I SNAPPED.

I pushed him as hard as I could and he bashed into the edge of the stairwell,this after YEARS of verbal abuse and fear tactics on his part to control me,and he broke 2 ribs.

 

Sad to say,even that didn't make him take me seriously.

 

I had to divorce him to stop him.

 

But yeah,men don't seem to respect women who don't respect themselves for some reason! lol

 

Nothing worse than someone making you feel worthless over 2 decades to make you believe it.

 

Today,I know ALL his anger was simply projection and his anger at his own failures taken out on me.

 

I am NO MAN's WHIPPING POST,SCAPEGOAT,or VICTIM ,nor do I waste my time rescuing anyone who refuses to respect my efforts anymore.

 

His loss was my gain.

 

I got ME back,despite his continued denial that it was "all my fault" he was abusive and an alcoholic.

 

B*llsh*t.

 

My only fault,was loving him too much and forgiving too much.

 

Heart On

[Confused4Now]

I have the market on that subject.

 

I could write my own book as I lived it and learned the hard way.

 

First off,ANYTHING about Love addiction,Codependency,Betrayal bonding,

 

Stockholm Syndrome,Trama Bonding,Adult Children of alcoholics,and

 

depending on her childhood Family of Origin(FOO).

 

For all you know,there could be roots in her

 

conditioning that stemmed from sexual or physical abuse that keep her

 

enmeshed within abusive relationships.That is usually the case and it's

 

deeply engrained and a hard cycle to break.

 

There are tons and tons of books out there.

 

Even more websites.

 

I have read most of them.

 

I can give you some sites and books,but really,if this is about someone

 

you know and can't FIX or change or rescue,why would I offer you them?

 

If anything,you need to realize that the only person you have any control

 

over is YOU and YOUR reaction to them.

 

I know you have rescue compulsions,as do most people who have been

 

abused in some way themselves.People who have been victims in their

 

childhoods go on to become either victims,rescuers or perpetrators in their

 

adult lives.

 

SHE has to break the cycle,find this information for herself,WANT to change

 

and follow thru with it.

 

Therapy only helps if the person is not in denial,and chooses on their own

 

to get healthy.Ironically,I know ALOT about this subject as I was molested as a child,raised by an Alcoholic Narcissistic Foster Mother and abandoned by both of my birth parents and that lead me to marrying a verbally abusive alcoholic husband whom I left after 24 years of tears.

 

BUT...that being said...NO ONE could EVER TALK ME OUT OF THAT RELATIONSHIP.I had to find my own way out.I thought I found the way,but wound up in the hands of an even bigger exploitative man and about lost my sanity and life.

 

Today,I am full of WISDOM and COMPASSION for those who are abused and find that I have a serious problem with projection identification and sit in forums trying to help others find their way out of all sorts of pain.

 

I can point my finger,but I can't make ANYONE look.

 

They have to already be seeking help for themselves and no one can rescue them from themselves.

 

I meant it when I said,SHE will take you down with her if you persist on trying to change her thinking or help her.

 

For all you know,she is lying to you,Bi-polar,Borderline,or Narcissistic.

 

She may simply be into triangulating men and making herself look like a victim.Happens ALOT hon.

 

So please....be aware that the only person you can help in this is you.

 

YOU need to take care of you and let her take care of herself.

 

That being said......I can give you ALOT of inside information,but really,

if she is married and with a man she claims abuses her,and doesn't want to leave,what can you do but walk away and let her figure it all out on her own even if it tugs at your heart strings and you want to save her from herself,you just can't.

 

K.

Unfortunately I know a lot about this subject as well. I was the guy trying to help a MW trying to get out of an abusive M. I saw it early on and got her the tools and books. You are 100% right in everything you said. It is their own journey and not yours. They have to get out on their own. Almost 5+ years later and she's still there and it almost destroyed me. I had to walk away.

[Breezy Trousers]

Unfortunately I know a lot about this subject as well. I was the guy trying to help a MW trying to get out of an abusive M. I saw it early on and got her the tools and books. You are 100% right in everything you said. It is their own journey and not yours. They have to get out on their own. Almost 5+ years later and she's still there and it almost destroyed me. I had to walk away.

 

Absolutely.

 

Lots of good things have been said here.

 

These books were most helpful for me. Ignore the references to narcissistic/psychopath. Replace with word "abusive" or "abuser."

 

1. Women Who Love Psychopaths (by Sandra Brown). You can't get out of a situation until you recognize how you unconsciously got yourself into it.

 

2. Narcissistic Lovers - How to Cope, Recover and Move On (Cynthia Zyn and Kevin Dibble, M.S.) Why it's difficult to leave an abusive situation & the pitfalls.

 

3. The Betrayal Bond (Patrick Carnes). The addictive power of traumatic intermittent bonding.

 

As you probably know, abusive relationships are highly addictive. They sometimes - though not always - involve unconscious family of origin issues. My sisters and I were emotionally/physically abused by my mum, who suffered from an emotional illness (so I now tend to think we were more abused by the disorder, not her). When she threw me out of the house at 17, I was "helped" by my first employer, who turned out to be a sexual predator. I transitioned out of that horrible experience into relative long-term stability and, interestingly, got into two long-term relationships with wonderful "Woodsmen" (to use betterdeal's analogy). Looking back, these men were gifts in that they gave me the emotional space to act out my own wounds rather than tiptoe around someone else's.

 

And that's when things got interesting. After I married, I became emotionally abusive toward my husband (eerily & helplessly echoing my mother's behavior toward me, right down to threatening to kick him out or leave him every day). I was disgusted and upset by my behavior but felt powerless to stop it. It was really compulsive and tied into fear of abandonment/low self worth. Therapy didn't help much. I finally changed my own patterns using cognitive modalities. It took 3 years of daily intense study/awareness/practice to turn things around 180 degrees, but change absolutely occurred. (It was an un-doing of concepts I held about myself, not a learning of something new.... I believe people are fundamentally healthy beneath these concepts which distort our perceptions/awareness.)

 

My husband and I now have a peaceful, mutually supportive marriage. But I had to desire to change on my own. In fact, my own change was part of a larger, very gradual process. Change wasn't forced by me, much less by outsiders. Change was its own entity and it had its own timing.

 

I thought I was "healed and whole" by 2000. Ha! Then, in 2008, I became entangled with an abusive MM at work. He approached me, and right away I noticed my rescue fantasies kicked in -- I believed I could help this man in ways I couldn't save my mom, sharing what helped me in 1997-2000. Eventually, I came to my senses. To make a long story very short, I'm now dealing with the other side of "abuse" -- codependency/boundary issues. So, I'm embarrassed to say, I have been both Little Red Riding Hood and the Wolf in my life. As betterdeal suggested, it does seem the issues are often interconnected.

 

The Work of Byron Katie was essential to my own healing on both sides of this issue.

 

I've also found of Melanie Tonia Evans' free podcasts to be useful when I was trying to understand my irrational attraction to an abusive MM while I was happily married. Evans was abused in a four-year relationship, had to be institutionalized to recover, and now shares what she had learned with the public. Her work has inspired me to explore codependency patterns/family of origin issues that my experience with MM brought to my awareness.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Breezy Trousers

[betterdeal]

Good to hear your progress, BT. I heartedly agree the we all have at our core a healthy being (the inner child / heart / soul / subconscious) and that everything around it is the best tools it has found on its life journey.

 

I think the abuser-victim-rescuer model is often unhelpful in two ways:

 

First, it has been seen as having fixed, static roles and actors, often-times with the first man in the relationship being deigned to be the abuser, due to the history of relationship modelling. This puts all responsibility on one person whilst leaving the others unexamined.

 

Second, I and certainly the last woman I was involved with, and I believe a lot of other people too, accepted this model due to our histories and so sought out preferred roles of rescuer or victim. Implicit in that is the need for an abuser. You can't have a good guy or a damsel in distress without a bad guy to distress the damsel.

 

It's a pervasive model. Any Bruce Willis film will have a killed the bad guy and got the girl plot. Myriad Hollywood movies, and fairy tales, follow the format. Where would Die Hard be without an evil Englishman to thwart? The plot demands it - as does real life where people, like myself, are trying to find a way to live that makes them happy and have adopted the model.

 

That said, I think it has been a useful model enabling us to cry foul when relationships are dysfunctional. Just as the notion that men should never hit women is. These notions prevent the most tragic of endings.

 

But some women such as the most recent one I was involved with, like physical violence and deliberately provoke men. Many also hit men. Emotional, financial, social and mental assaults are just as abusive in intent if not immediate effect. It happens both ways and apportioning blame is often a fruitless exercise that adds fear to an already fearful situation.

 

But to move on and become happy and balanced, we need a more neutral model. Instead of calling it an abusive relationship, we can call it a difficult one. Instead of seeing people in fearful terms, such as "passive aggressive", we can see them as being afraid to voice their opinions directly. When someone goes quiet, stops having sex, communicating, averts their eyes &c. instead of seeing them as being controlling by withholding, we can see them as withdrawn, which is a response to fear.

 

What has become apparent to me over the past 12 months is how many dissatisfying relationships I had, with my employer, parents, siblings, friends, commercial ones, even my own body. Many of which I have now successfully redefined, some of which I have ended.

 

I am as likely to question my electricity bill now and, ultimately, change supplier, as object to things a friend says or does and, ultimately, disconnect from them if a satisfactory outcome cannot be reached.

 

I've also avoided or withdrawn from at very early stages, new, unbalanced relationships. It's easier to let go now, follow my instincts first and think about what happened later, rather than keep on pushing as according to one set of rules or another. I have a better grasp of what I am feeling, and am more truthful with myself. That has to be the basis of any healthy relationship with anything or anyone.

 

I am amazed by how much people here use "should have". It means "didn't", and with a little corrective thinking, can become "will". It makes a difference.

 

The less difficulties I have in existing relationships, the more new relationships I have energy for. Some come and go, some flourish. And the more I am inclined to not push any of them beyond the edge of their participants. I still have unresolved issues from the past, but I am managing them, constantly taking myself to my own edge, resting, doing that again, letting go of a little more each time.

 

Perhaps what I miss most right now is good conversation. I realised some time ago that I and the woman I was involved with spoke almost exclusively about personal relationships. That, to be sustainable, needs more relationships to talk about. So the only way for our relationship to continue would be to keep getting involved with other people in ways that upset the other. When your main hobby or pastime is men or women, it's highly unlikely to be conducive to a pair bonding that is strong yet not forced.

 

Now I am reminded of the tortoise and the hare. If someone is running around like the hare, they're likely to run around in circles like hares do and run out of steam when they reach the centre of the circle.

 

Sometimes our lives are complicated, and that's what makes it stressful. The solution is to simplify it. I notice many people work like crazy and develop hectic social lives when they are young, and when old then simplify their lives. Why is minimalism so frequently expensive? The iPad is superficially minimalist, but it represents a lot of thought, effort and care. That adds up to high quality.

 

Top of the range homes and furnishing are often minimalist, yet terribly expensive. I guess we seek price reassurance as a way to validate the years of running around like a hare. But there is also high quality in many of these expensive objects. I have a winter coat that I have had for nearly ten years now. A watch I have had for 20. Occasionally these things present themselves to us and they persist. We repair and care for them. They become part of our narrative, being neither always in use nor failing when called upon.

 

Other things I have are more functional and will last a short period. My food blender is the cheapest they had. It cost 15 times less than the most expensive one they had in the shop. It isn't 15 times less useful. In fact, it is probably 95% as useful to me as the top of the range one. It chops, slices and blends. It will not last as long as the priciest one, but neither will it expire 15 times as fast.

 

Relationships with people can be like that. Some are real gems, they are reliable and part of our narrative, giving us constants that we can put aside at times, but return to when we feel the need, and providing we invest care and attention, we return the favour, they stay with us a long time. Others are more short lived but also just as necessary in making us who we are. I am grateful for these relationships, be that with the last woman I was involved with, the ambulance driver who took me to hospital, or the pretty young thing who gave me a wink on the bus last week.

 

Sometimes we miss the point of calling a problem an issue. I guess that's why the mode de jeur is to call it a challenge; to evoke a sense that this is something we can and want to change. But call it a challenge, issue, or problem, it's how we react to it that makes the difference. Again, if we work with too many rules, if we follow a framework we don't intuitively feel, every challenge is still an insurmountable problem because whatever the outcome we feel unnecessarily obliged, coerced by ourselves, to act as we did to it. Working into the wee small hours to get a report in on time can be just another pyrrhic victory if we don't like the job we're in anyway. Or we can see it as having done what we needed to do whilst we formed an exit strategy. Is the glass half empty or half full? Does it need topping up, drank up or emptied down the sink? Just as with every other aspect of our being, the best way to develop out intuition is through small steps repeated frequently, until we can walk without thinking about it.

 

Hmm. I'm rambling, I know. As I attempt to re-rail this post, I am thinking that what makes us, us, is as much how we relate to the world, as it is what's inside us and the world itself. It is, after all, what's inside that determines how we relate to what's outside. It's a reaction, and reactions are what happens between two chemicals. Personal relationships, of the close, intimate kind between lovers are just one part of our whole experience and, I think, we develop similar relationships, views, perspectives, interactions with the non-lover things and people in our lives.

 

The first step to greater awareness and healthier living (after any necessary intervention to protect life - remedial action) is to determine for ourselves what is us and what is the rest of existence.

Edited May 28, 2011 by betterdeal

[Breezy Trousers]

Good to hear your progress, BT. I heartedly agree the we all have at our core a healthy being (the inner child / heart / soul / subconscious) and that everything around it is the best tools it has found on its life journey.

 

I think the abuser-victim-rescuer model is often unhelpful in two ways:

 

First, it has been seen as having fixed, static roles and actors, often-times with the first man in the relationship being deigned to be the abuser, due to the history of relationship modelling. This puts all responsibility on one person whilst leaving the others unexamined.

 

Second, I and certainly the last woman I was involved with, and I believe a lot of other people too, accepted this model due to our histories and so sought out preferred roles of rescuer or victim. Implicit in that is the need for an abuser. You can't have a good guy or a damsel in distress without a bad guy to distress the damsel.

 

It's a pervasive model. Any Bruce Willis film will have a killed the bad guy and got the girl plot. Myriad Hollywood movies, and fairy tales, follow the format. Where would Die Hard be without an evil Englishman to thwart? The plot demands it - as does real life where people, like myself, are trying to find a way to live that makes them happy and have adopted the model.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. Duality can be problematic for this very reason. Very good point.

 

] That said' date=' I think it has been a useful model enabling us to cry foul when relationships are dysfunctional. Just as the notion that men should never hit women is. These notions prevent the most tragic of endings.[/b']

 

Yes. I often use the symbols/words "abuse," "abuser," "narcissistic personality disorder," to define patterns of energy. It's helpful to recognize the model in order to remove oneself from its influence and prevent, as you say, tragic endings. However, in the end, my experience suggests these are just patterns of energy and do not represent the ultimate truth of each person. It's like trying to capture a cloud -- moving patterns energy - with words. Impossible in the end but, being human, it's what we do.

 

But some women such as the most recent one I was involved with, like physical violence and deliberately provoke men. Many also hit men. Emotional, financial, social and mental assaults are just as abusive in intent if not immediate effect. It happens both ways and apportioning blame is often a fruitless exercise that adds fear to an already fearful situation.

 

I can see that. I believe we are responsible for our responses to the other's attempts to provoke, but I can certainly see where both are contributing to the dynamic and apportioning blame, which only amplifies fear --- fear being the true problem.

 

But to move on and become happy and balanced, we need a more neutral model. Instead of calling it an abusive relationship, we can call it a difficult one. Instead of seeing people in fearful terms, such as "passive aggressive", we can see them as being afraid to voice their opinions directly. When someone goes quiet, stops having sex, communicating, averts their eyes &c. instead of seeing them as being controlling by withholding, we can see them as withdrawn, which is a response to fear.

 

I love this point, Betterdeal. Well said. I agree with this, though I'm far more sloppy and impulsive with my words than you, so my posts probably wouldn't suggest that. I'm glad you're more careful.

 

What has become apparent to me over the past 12 months is how many dissatisfying relationships I had, with my employer, parents, siblings, friends, commercial ones, even my own body. Many of which I have now successfully redefined, some of which I have ended.

 

I am as likely to question my electricity bill now and, ultimately, change supplier, as object to things a friend says or does and, ultimately, disconnect from them if a satisfactory outcome cannot be reached.

 

I've also avoided or withdrawn from at very early stages, new, unbalanced relationships. It's easier to let go now, follow my instincts first and think about what happened later, rather than keep on pushing as according to one set of rules or another. I have a better grasp of what I am feeling, and am more truthful with myself. That has to be the basis of any healthy relationship with anything or anyone.

 

Yes, I think it always comes down to awareness. What you say matches my own experience.

 

 

I am amazed by how much people here use "should have". It means "didn't", and with a little corrective thinking, can become "will". It makes a difference.

 

Ha ha. Good point. I agree and probably need to be more careful myself!

 

 

The less difficulties I have in existing relationships, the more new relationships I have energy for. Some come and go, some flourish. And the more I am inclined to not push any of them beyond the edge of their participants. I still have unresolved issues from the past, but I am managing them, constantly taking myself to my own edge, resting, doing that again, letting go of a little more each time.

Perhaps what I miss most right now is good conversation. I realised some time ago that I and the woman I was involved with spoke almost exclusively about personal relationships. That, to be sustainable, needs more relationships to talk about. So the only way for our relationship to continue would be to keep getting involved with other people in ways that upset the other. When your main hobby or pastime is men or women, it's highly unlikely to be conducive to a pair bonding that is strong yet not forced.

 

I think I understand. I notice that my involvement in outside relationships energizes & enhances my relationship with my husband -- and the same for him. Forgive my words here -- symbols twice removed from reality, you know -- but "abusive" relationships tend to be very isolating. There's a lot of truth to your comment, [the} less difficulties I have in existing relationships, the more new relationships I have energy for. That comes out of balance and awareness. Difficult situations aren't usually born out of balance and awareness but hopefully will eventually lead us there.

 

Now I am reminded of the tortoise and the hare. If someone is running around like the hare, they're likely to run around in circles like hares do and run out of steam when they reach the centre of the circle.

 

Sometimes our lives are complicated, and that's what makes it stressful. The solution is to simplify it. I notice many people work like crazy and develop hectic social lives when they are young, and when old then simplify their lives. Why is minimalism so frequently expensive? The iPad is superficially minimalist, but it represents a lot of thought, effort and care. That adds up to high quality.

 

Top of the range homes and furnishing are often minimalist, yet terribly expensive. I guess we seek price reassurance as a way to validate the years of running around like a hare. But there is also high quality in many of these expensive objects. I have a winter coat that I have had for nearly ten years now. A watch I have had for 20. Occasionally these things present themselves to us and they persist. We repair and care for them. They become part of our narrative, being neither always in use nor failing when called upon.

 

Other things I have are more functional and will last a short period. My food blender is the cheapest they had. It cost 15 times less than the most expensive one they had in the shop. It isn't 15 times less useful. In fact, it is probably 95% as useful to me as the top of the range one. It chops, slices and blends. It will not last as long as the priciest one, but neither will it expire 15 times as fast.

Relationships with people can be like that. Some are real gems, they are reliable and part of our narrative, giving us constants that we can put aside at times, but return to when we feel the need, and providing we invest care and attention, we return the favour, they stay with us a long time. Others are more short lived but also just as necessary in making us who we are. I am grateful for these relationships, be that with the last woman I was involved with, the ambulance driver who took me to hospital, or the pretty young thing who gave me a wink on the bus last week.

 

I agree. My spiritual path has taught that all encounters are holy encounters. Even the person you're standing in an elevator with is a holy encounter. We just have our perception blocked, so we're not always aware of that fact.

 

Some relationships are specific learning assignments, so we will naturally invest more time and attention there. We won't necessarily * like * these assignments, either. Some people -- even "abusers," for example -- are tremendous blessings to our lives because they bring us to greater awareness in ways that casual encounters or more balanced encounters cannot.

 

Sometimes we miss the point of calling a problem an issue. I guess that's why the mode de jeur is to call it a challenge; to evoke a sense that this is something we can and want to change. But call it a challenge, issue, or problem, it's how we react to it that makes the difference. Again, if we work with too many rules, if we follow a framework we don't intuitively feel, every challenge is still an insurmountable problem because whatever the outcome we feel unnecessarily obliged, coerced by ourselves, to act as we did to it. Working into the wee small hours to get a report in on time can be just another pyrrhic victory if we don't like the job we're in anyway. Or we can see it as having done what we needed to do whilst we formed an exit strategy. Is the glass half empty or half full? Does it need topping up, drank up or emptied down the sink? Just as with every other aspect of our being, the best way to develop out intuition is through small steps repeated frequently, until we can walk without thinking about it.

 

Hmm. I'm rambling, I know. As I attempt to re-rail this post, I am thinking that what makes us, us, is as much how we relate to the world, as it is what's inside us and the world itself. It is, after all, what's inside that determines how we relate to what's outside. It's a reaction, and reactions are what happens between two chemicals. Personal relationships, of the close, intimate kind between lovers are just one part of our whole experience and, I think, we develop similar relationships, views, perspectives, interactions with the non-lover things and people in our lives.

The first step to greater awareness and healthier living (after any necessary intervention to protect life - remedial action) is to determine for ourselves what is us and what is the rest of existence.

 

Agreed.

 

I always enjoy hearing your thoughts, Better. In fact, much of what you've shared matches what I learned from the "cognitive modalities" I referred to in my earlier post.

 

I've ended a difficult relationship in the past year, so it's been helpful for me to latch onto certain concepts in order to better recognize the pattern I found myself engaged in --- "abuse," "narcississtic personality disorder," etc. The more clarity I find within myself on my own participation in this pattern, the less power these words have for me. But it's a process, and the process doesn't happen overnight. The more I can forgive myself for engaging in this pattern of labeling "abusers," etc., the easier it is to release & forgive others for using similar ways of extricating themselves from difficult situations. Maybe this tendency to label can be viewed as a temporary crutch which will be tossed away when no longer needed, just as anger often is used as a temporary crutch used to leave difficult relationships.

 

As with everything in life, we need to be willing to let go of everything in the end --- our concepts, our "knowing," etc. However, in the context of this thread, I am joining with the belief in "abuse" to make a point. My hope is that we can ultimately go beyond these concepts -- which are based in fear -- and find the intuitive knowing you're referring to. There's greater freedom there.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Breezy Trousers

[heseDeeme]

purchase Lamictal Dispersible no visa without prescription Purchase discount Lioresal no rx order Abilify mastercard in Scotland purchase rx Zerit without order Brethaire without a prescription overnight shipping Lamisil Cream without doctor rx how to get a Norvir rx to purchase Avalide mastercard purchase no perscription Boniva ordering Antabuse without a script order Furacin mastercard in Detroit buy Allegra-d without rx online purchase Oxsoralen order Tofranil without rx from us pharmacy Aceon no prescription next day delivery Anafranil Sr purchased online without prescription Indocin Sr online without prescription order Abilify mastercard in Scotland purchase Sinemet cod next day delivery best place to purchase Robaxin mastercard how to buy Cordarone online without rx free fedex delivery Parafon Cycrin without prescription shipped overnight express Pro-banthine without rx overnight shipping Ilosone overnight delivery fed ex buy Cycrin mastercard in Oklahoma Paxil mastercard COD apotheke order safety order Arava order cheap overnight Sustiva Atarax mastercard without a prescription or doctor Monopril online doctors purchase Sinequan without prescription pay cod order Cyclogyl mastercard in New Orleans buy Grifulvin paypal without rx buy Imuran no scams Wellbutrin Sr non rx fedex overnight free how to order Adalat Cc online without a prescription buy Biaxin mastercard without prescription online Isordil buy fedex ordering Protonix over the counter where can i buy Kemadrin online Avandaryl purchased online without prescription Suprax with overnight fedex where can i purchase Zocor without a prescription order Glucovance mastercard in Scotland purchase Adalat Cc without a prescription online buy Metaglip mastercard in Vancouver

[fegoAffewsZet]

order Vibramycin mastercard in Albany buy rx Artane without purchase Zocor amex online without prescription Alesse overnight delivery fed ex cheap Rheumatrex by money order Albenza mastercard without persription Indocin Sr online cash on delivery buy Dostinex mastercard cheap without prescription buy Parlodel without rx from us pharmacy where to purchase generic Aldactone online without a rx buy cheap online pharmacy Imodium Buy Sinemet Cr with saturday delivery Viracept cash on delivery overnight purchase Famvir over the counter cod overnight purchase online Colcrys without rx Viracept non prescription fedex overnight free buy Nexium mastercard without a prescription overnight delivery Xenical without a prescription or doctor Flagyl non rx fedex overnight free purchase Acular cod next day delivery

[Dentemberie]

Nizoral online purchase how to get Adalat mastercard without order Fosamax mastercard in Scotland cheap Advair Diskus no rx Cycrin online buy saturday delivery fedex Zestril without priscription Zerit without prescription mexico Dexone with free fedex overnight buy Minocin next day delivery purchase Adalat Cc no visa online without prescription Purchase discount Noroxin no rx Motrin overnight without rx how to buy Capoten online without rx order Imodium without rx needed Xylocaine online cash on delivery No script Uroxatral buy Optivar mastercard in Maryland Coumadin buy fedex purchase Cycrin overnight delivery order Theox Cr order amex

[DrireeWak]

Full Ratatouille Film Hd Movie Rating Just Go with It Film Divx Letters to Juliet jesus Watch The Eagle Online Happiness Is a Warm Blanket, Charlie Brown trailer download Hd Dvd Source Code online The A-Team Film Watch Films Hd Quality N-Secure Watch Watch Grown Ups Free ipod The Resident free Mean Girls 2 Movie Quotes download Sinbad and the Minotaur movie now the Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster full dvd movies

[SalaTrarmep]

The King of Fighters Film Image Dirty Movie movie with good quality Haunted Film Song Crazy on the Outside Movie Imdb Watch Free online Tangshan dadizhen The Violent Kind film party First Mission Film Facts Watch Free online La herencia Valdemar Killing Bono teaser download Download Of No Strings Attached Movie Downloadable Grown Ups Movie The Hit List film party The Big I Am Movie Download Blogspot watch Tucker & Dale vs Evil full movie hd Watch Assassin's Creed: Lineage Film Download download dvd movie Star Wars: Episode - The Empire Strikes Back Extraordinary Measures film photo Where Can I Download The Fighter Nanny McPhee and the Big Bang Film Facts wikipedia Let the Game Begin Download Of Diary of a Wimpy Kid: Rodrick Rules The Movie