Misconceptions about what men and women want from eachother

[starryeyed12]

Ok. I apologize for calling you sweet. Trust me it won't happen again.

 

I'm done talking to you now.

[starryeyed12]

Resentment can be an explanation for the bolded. Starryeyed said that resentment is a libido killer....but I think it is more specifically a desire killer. The libido is still there, but the desire for the person she resents is gone.

 

But these cheating wives can also be just poor examples of humans--just like the easily-found examples of cheating husbands. Like I said earlier (or was that a different thread?), the message is strong in our society that humans need variety to have sexual excitement. That is NOT my experience, nor my opinion, but that is the message I hear all the frackin' time.

 

IMO, new partners are the lazy-(wo)man's route to sexual excitement. The more challenging, and more rewarding, route is deep intimacy with your longterm partner. But that requires maturity that a lot of people just don't have.

 

 

I agree with this. It's a fair assessment for both sexes.

 

Also ,I definitely agree with your distinction between libido killer and desire killer.

[nordic]

1.) You are incapable of seeing underneath actions to what they really mean, the motivations people have for doing any such action. This skill, in general, is important to understanding where misconceptions come from and how to communicate in order to overcome them.

 

You only expand your mind beyond the obvious when it suits you and your arguement.

 

You really can't see what the action of "doing the dishes" really means to a woman, can you? I'll spell it out for you yet again. You say these things are so obvious that your 21 year old self had it down pat, well you seem to have lost some wisdom along the way.

 

If it's just a one time thing--then no, you can't trade apples for oranges. "I'll trade you 2 days dishes for 1 night sex." Not how it works, Nordic. Sex should not be a mindess chore traded for another mindless chore. Sex as an intimate activity is not comparable to the activity of a daily chore.

 

Let's look a little deeper.

 

If "doing the dishes" translates to consistantly helping out around the house without asking, helping take care of the kids and their endless list of events, asking how her day was, telling her shes beautiful, planning a romantic evening instead of just rolling on top of her, well, then that has much more significance to a woman. "Doing the dishes" then means acts of helping, investing time into the family, investing time into her, building her self confidence, giving her some "me" time so that she can take care of herself and as a by-product look sexier and healthier for you.

 

It's a two way street. Women need to do this as well, but often the sterotype and misconception is that it's the women starving in this area, though not always the case. When a partner says they want more of this type of behavior, they don't just mean for one night. It's a lifetime committment.

 

If the everyday grind of family life and the regular maintence of romance is out of balance or neglected on one end, there will be resentment on the other. That resentment, if not communicated and delt with properly, can spiral out of control leading to deep resentment on both ends.

 

 

2. ) No sh*t.

 

You are nothing, but an ESCAPE for them. They tell you "Oh, I love you" and they have sex with you.

 

Let's look a little deeper.

 

The cheating man or woman--9 times out of 10-- DOES NOT love you. You are nothing more than an escape from his or her own mental issues/relationship isses. It is a selfish, immature way of escaping the truth and dealing with reality. Of course selfish people don't care if how hard you try at "doing the dishes," they are too self absorbed to notice because that would require them to see outside of their own selfish wants and needs. The resentment is deep on both ends at the point of an affair. It's just the more selfish partner who usually decides to go down this path.

 

You as the OM/OW are just that. You are some other form of distraction/escape. In time your trist will end and there will be consequences to pay. Escapism is not a foundation for love 99.99999995% of the time.

 

Whatever brings people to a point where they begin to act this immature and selfish--well, that probably came about because of lack of communication of their true wants/needs a LONG time before this. And that goes for both partners in the relationship.

 

1) wow. you really do think i am stupid. you have now explained the same thing three times to me. after i said twice that i get it. i get what "doing the dishes means". trust me. i get that. i understand that its not exchanging a chore for sex in a mechanical way. i never thought that, ever.

 

that mechanism is real and exists. i get it. it doesnt prove what you are saying though. that a married woman's desire for her husband over years and maybe decades is a function of level of housework or even projected love. thats a necessary condition, but not sufficient. women will only have sex over and over again if they really want to, otherwise they will get tired of it. so they need to be horny, in laymens terms. women are turned on by men who are a bit exciting to them and who can bring them all the way over and over. your explanation is too damn one-dimensional. female sexuality is just way more complicated than that. in fact, doing the dishes, i.e. actually doing it in real life, and not as the concept we just discussed, may very well be the totally wrong thing to do. if done right, yes it may be seen as an act of love and make the women feel like you describe, but if done wrong, it might just make her man seem domesticated and tame to her, and that will never work. see, women are not so simple as you describe. in fact, getting her a swedish au pair girl to help her out, might be smarter, or a maid.

 

it comes down to the woman and how she works. but if she does not have that animal feeling inside her for a man anymore. nothing will work anyway. thats what are missing, and making so amazing simplistic in your argument.

 

2) everybody is selfish. even unicorns.

 

women have affairs on wider scale than we know. its very common. you make it sound that is an exception to a rule or that its special type of woman, thats dysfunctional that would do that. truth is, most women will, if the right chance comes a long and her reltionship is momentarily at a weak point. you are perhaps a younger woman, who still have ideals.

 

one thing that women do well, is to not get caught. they tend to do it on a vacation trip with the girls or on work conference, and then its almost impossible to track. when people do get caught today, its usually an electronic trace somewhere. facebook, or going through peoples' phones. funny, that the very tools for making it so easy, also is what gets you caught in the end:-)

[starryeyed12]

I think it really depends on the cause of the annoyance. If it's a tiny thing and the man gets the silent treatment and no sex, then it becomes a spiral. Like women want to be understood, they should understand that men need to be understood too. We are different, so communication is paramount. I get the not wanting sex if you feel wronged, but sometimes talking and solving the issue is a lot simpler than withholding sex.

 

 

Amen, my friend.

[nordic]

Hm can't find a quote where I called you degrading names can you?

 

I'm seriously done talking to you, Nordic.

 

You have really pissed me off now, and I have been patient in dealing with you. I explained how I find that degrading and you don't care. If I offended you in the same way, you can easily point that out before purposely going against something I took the time to ask you not to do.

 

Do me a favor and ignore my presence here.

 

sorry, was writing so didnt see this before i posted.

 

you are part of discussion, others might feel that they are being patient with you as well. you dont get special treatemnt from em, coz your gender.

 

as last funny detail, i will point soemthing i noticed over the years with women. when they talk about communication, they often (at least young women) implicitly mean that you should let them win the argument. and if they dont they will run away and cry.

 

true communication doesnt work like that, you listen to what people say, as long as its from the heart, and nobody is holding back. thats the only way to learn something.

[nordic]

Ok. I apologize for calling you sweet. Trust me it won't happen again.

 

I'm done talking to you now.

 

bye baby:)

[starryeyed12]

Yes, when I feel emotionally injured, desire leaves the room--fast. Getting it back requires working through the issue, which we've always managed to do in a couple hours, or at most a couple days. If there are issues upon issues, and layers of resentment, that is going to kill desire for sure.

 

Some people are probably manipulative, and withhold sex to get their way. But it is also predictable for a woman to cringe at the touch of a man who she feels has hurt her. Men might be better at compartmentalizing, and having sex even though they were pissed at their wife 2 hours earlier--but I can't do that unless we've resolved the issue.

 

In the cases of layers of resentment, though, both partners have responsibility for it getting to that point. Communicate!

 

Yes, yes, and yes.

 

This is the point I think gets misconstrued often.

 

When you aren't turned on and are resentful of your partner, the word "withholding" doesn't have the right connotation, I don't think. To me that makes it sound like the desire is still there, yet you are conscously making an effort to turn it off, hold it back.

 

In truth, when a woman is deeply resentful and unhappy, she just flat out doesn't want to have sex with him. Some men seem to feel that the woman still "owes" it to them to have sex because of his needs. But truly, is that an enjoyable sexual experience? To have sex with someone who is emotionally checked out? Maybe once or twice, but what is sex if you are just forcing it on the other person because you are legally bound to one another? That's only going to compound the resentment.

 

She's still a sexual being and there will always be people and things outside of her husband which turn her on, but the desire for him is what suffers and what matters.

 

He wants to have sex because he can compartmentalize, like you mentioned. But she just doesn't have the desire, and that leds to sexual problems either way, in my opinion, until the issues are resolved and the tension is loosened.

[giotto]

Yes, yes, and yes.

 

This is the point I think gets misconstrued often.

 

When you aren't turned on and are resentful of your partner, the word "withholding" doesn't have the right connotation, I don't think. To me that makes it sound like the desire is still there, yet you are conscously making an effort to turn it off, hold it back.

 

In truth, when a woman is deeply resentful and unhappy, she just flat out doesn't want to have sex with him. Some men seem to feel that the woman still "owes" it to them to have sex because of his needs. But truly, is that an enjoyable sexual experience? To have sex with someone who is emotionally checked out? Maybe once or twice, but what is sex if you are just forcing it on the other person because you are legally bound to one another? That's only going to compound the resentment.

 

She's still a sexual being and there will always be people and things outside of her husband which turn her on, but the desire for him is what suffers and what matters.

 

He wants to have sex because he can compartmentalize, like you mentioned. But she just doesn't have the desire, and that leds to sexual problems either way, in my opinion, until the issues are resolved and the tension is loosened.

 

Honesty is the key. If the woman has checked out of the marriage, then she should inform her husband, instead of keeping him in the dark or telling porkies. I do understand that for some women family and children are the most important thing and it must be awful when the relationship is over. Divorcing means destroying everything. But it's also unfair to keep your husband in the dark. Unfortunately, when problems arise it's often too late. Communication and honesty from day 1 must be paramount.

[nordic]

Honesty is the key. If the woman has checked out of the marriage, then she should inform her husband, instead of keeping him in the dark or telling porkies. I do understand that for some women family and children are the most important thing and it must be awful when the relationship is over. Divorcing means destroying everything. But it's also unfair to keep your husband in the dark. Unfortunately, when problems arise it's often too late. Communication and honesty from day 1 must be paramount.

 

i never had this problem with no sex in a relstionship so i am not sure how common it is, but seems to be a common theme here, after i looked around.

 

maybe, actually not getting married is the best way to keep the relationship fresh and not having spouses taking eachother for granted.

 

we had an example here where it was mentioned that a woman would withhold sex for 8 months, coz she did not recieve enough of something, whatever that may be. but, i can tell you, if a woman withheld sex from me for any reason that didnt make sense, i would just not see her. she would loose her apartment key and have to ring the bell as everybody else,a dn instead of waking up with lake view and walking to work she would have to start communiting again. and the likelihood that i would live without sex for 8 months (thats a big part of a mans sexually active life) is very small, i just wouldnt.

 

i think women may start taking too much for granted when they get married, and if it is clear that those things can just as easily be taken away at moments notice, the fact of life may clearer to them. sure you whine about "doing the dishes", but if you live above any standard you ever be able to on your own, you might understand why you are doing the dishes for your man, or that whining will sound very faint from the suburb, and there will lots of time thinking things through on the daily commute.

 

i was married for a long time. i am realising that she must have been great:-) having seen competition here. still, single women are even better, nothing beats variety:) well, maybe somebody does, but i need to find her then.

[giotto]

If you get married and have kids, everything gets complicated. It's hard work and stressful and you need to be open and honest if there are problems. Otherwise, resentment builds, sex dries up and everything goes downhill. Believe me, I've been there.

[starryeyed12]

Honesty is the key. If the woman has checked out of the marriage, then she should inform her husband, instead of keeping him in the dark or telling porkies. I do understand that for some women family and children are the most important thing and it must be awful when the relationship is over. Divorcing means destroying everything. But it's also unfair to keep your husband in the dark. Unfortunately, when problems arise it's often too late. Communication and honesty from day 1 must be paramount.

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you are saying here.

 

But, the way I see it, you are making leaps and bounds from checked out of sex because of resentment to checked out of the marriage completely. Women can be checked out of sex because of numerous factors, but not be checked out of the marriage entirely. And just because a woman has checked out of sex due to these circumstances, it also doesn't mean she's given up on the marriage or you entirely.

 

I am fairly sure you will disagree with me, but I think for a lot of couples who stuggle with resentment and miscommunication in their marriage and the numerous aspects (besides sex) that are effected by such, there is still hope.

 

Now, mind you, I am not speaking of the manipulative or real, medical sexually disfunctional relationships-- those marriages very much exist and may very well be doomed. But for two relatively normal people, who were compatible in the first place, but have been beat down by life, work, kids, their own cirumstances, ignorance, misconception, hard times, fear, anger, resentment and both have suffered from the trap that is a sexless marriage, there is still hope for recovery.

 

It starts with them both bringing down the walls and starting to communicate why and what and how it went bad and how to make it better. Communication is the only way to resolve and is always an option. As long as it's an option, there is always hope that things can get better--each individual case being taken into consideration.

 

Many people have been wronged or mistreated by their partner for some time and have come out on the other side. It's important to recognize these couples before writing off the idea entirely.

 

I know this only very loosely fits my point, but this post made me think of a quote I really like by, I believe, Bob Marley; "The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for."

 

It's not a quote to live your everyday life by, but I see a point he's trying to make. Everyone and anything can turn ugly--why, how for how long--needs to be taken into consideration, but at the end of the day there are just always going to be those certain people worth suffering and fighting for--hopefully, behind the wall, the man or woman you chose to spend the rest of your life with is still one of them. Thus is life.

[Woman In Blue]

Last' date=' size is not as much of a factor as you think. It really is what you do with it - and I'm not going to go there -I'm sure googling will give you the dirt - but there are specific ahh, "techniques" shall we call them? That are VERY effective.[/quote']

The lady doesn't speak for ALL ladies, I assure you.

[nordic]

The lady doesn't speak for ALL ladies, I assure you.

 

clearly not

[nordic]

i think people generally make a huge error when they try to give advice to other people. they all of the sudden start seeing the world in these rosy colors and then they make life so simplistic, that there is no merit left to their advice.

 

i made 750k swiss francs in 2007 working for the cio of a large investment bank, dunno bit its over USD 800k in this exchange rate. i dont come from that, infact thats more than my father made in a life time, teaching. i did not have a fun year, i tell you that. and i really hated the cio (everybody did, but i was his deputy and most time with him), yet few people told him. for a simple reason, if you did you were out. so the the truth should set you free and that communication of the truth is always a good thing, is a theory, but it generally does not stand the test of real life.

 

i agree, in a good reltionship, communication is easy, and i dont think i ever hid anything from my partners ever, i am jjust not like that. its not what i want.

 

but i think relationships we discuss here are something different. they a semi good, as good as it gets, or better than hacking it on your own kind of relationships. and then the advice one gives just become non-applyable if one tries to see it through rosy glasses.

 

some of these women are lying their husbands, but very good reasons. lets say they have children. their husband is working hard to support her and her children, and it takes a lot out of him to fight other men on day to day basis in the working life, but does ok, but he doesnt have much energy for anything else. so he gets out of shape, which he was not when she met him. he crashes on the sofa after work, which he certainly didnt when started dating.

 

she know this. if she files for divorce, she will end up living in much worse neighbourhood, her children will go to a worse school, and she will not spend her days in their lovely house anymore, but behind a register or in a factory. these are very powerful motivators to be careful with the truth.

 

the truth is, she doesnt love husband anymore, she hasnt for years, and she is certainly not hot for him. its not libido thing, coz she is checking out the hot boys at her gym each times she is there and keeps dreaming.

 

so she doesnt love her husband, but she loves the lifestyle that he supplies her with. that is a dilemma. but one that the truth will not provide a very elegant solution for, as happens so often in this life:)

 

so she treats him as a platonic lifepartner to the limit where she thinks he will not rebel. so there is sex, but its plain vanilla when she thinks things are going out of hand otherwise. and she invents all these strategies to avoid the situations that lead to sex. he feels it, and he complains sometimes, but is too tired from work to really do anything about it, even figure it out, since the truth is not something he wants to see anyway. and now the typical way of lying starts. she invents reasons, the house is not clean enough, coz he doesnt clean. they havent had the neighbours over for weeks, and that just has to happen, its much more important than the their relationship. they need to go to ikea to buy furniture. how can she have warm feelings and have sex, if there is not new drawer in the bed room. its just always something.

 

see the real truth may not solve anything, and life is long, so there may be a time, when he works less and can go the gym, and starts having more energy after work, and then things might start working between them again. and so they get to brag about their long long marriage after 30 years, and how communication is key. when in real life, biting their tounge through the rough patches may have saved them.

 

me, the cio stayed long during spring 2008 even though theprivate banking divivision was screaming their lungs out, and he got sacked in september that year. i thanked him for everything he had done for me, and he wrote me a very nice interim recommendation letter (or i wrote it myself but he signed it). thats how life can work out if you communicate with care:)

[xxoo]

isome of these women are lying their husbands, but very good reasons. lets say they have children. their husband is working hard to support her and her children, and it takes a lot out of him to fight other men on day to day basis in the working life, but does ok, but he doesnt have much energy for anything else. so he gets out of shape, which he was not when she met him. he crashes on the sofa after work, which he certainly didnt when started dating.

 

she know this. if she files for divorce, she will end up living in much worse neighbourhood, her children will go to a worse school, and she will not spend her days in their lovely house anymore, but behind a register or in a factory. these are very powerful motivators to be careful with the truth.

 

the truth is, she doesnt love husband anymore, she hasnt for years, and she is certainly not hot for him. its not libido thing, coz she is checking out the hot boys at her gym each times she is there and keeps dreaming.

 

so she doesnt love her husband, but she loves the lifestyle that he supplies her with. that is a dilemma. but one that the truth will not provide a very elegant solution for, as happens so often in this life:)

 

so she treats him as a platonic lifepartner to the limit where she thinks he will not rebel. so there is sex, but its plain vanilla when she thinks things are going out of hand otherwise. and she invents all these strategies to avoid the situations that lead to sex. he feels it, and he complains sometimes, but is too tired from work to really do anything about it, even figure it out, since the truth is not something he wants to see anyway. and now the typical way of lying starts. she invents reasons, the house is not clean enough, coz he doesnt clean. they havent had the neighbours over for weeks, and that just has to happen, its much more important than the their relationship. they need to go to ikea to buy furniture. how can she have warm feelings and have sex, if there is not new drawer in the bed room. its just always something.

 

I see your point, but doubt the lack of attraction is primarily due to him getting out of shape. People (not just men....women too) who prioritize their career very highly often neglect more than exercise. It is very difficult to be highly successful at all things at all times, you know? Being very successful in business often comes at a cost, and one cost may be time spent with the spouse and kids.

 

Furthermore, I don't see how any of this is an argument against open communication. So much could be gained if the couple talked about the imbalances, and adjusted things. What good is 800k if your marriage is tanking? Maybe this is a just a limit of my personal understanding, but that is an obvious choice to me--work less, have more time together

 

see the real truth may not solve anything, and life is long, so there may be a time, when he works less and can go the gym, and starts having more energy after work, and then things might start working between them again. and so they get to brag about their long long marriage after 30 years, and how communication is key. when in real life, biting their tounge through the rough patches may have saved them.

 

I know this happens, but luck plays a strong part. Couples who neglect the marriage in the child-rearing/working years are vulnerable to affairs in middle age. Some may make it to 30 years, but many crash and burn.

[Flgirl44]

Honesty is the key. If the woman has checked out of the marriage, then she should inform her husband, instead of keeping him in the dark or telling porkies. I do understand that for some women family and children are the most important thing and it must be awful when the relationship is over. Divorcing means destroying everything. But it's also unfair to keep your husband in the dark. Unfortunately, when problems arise it's often too late. Communication and honesty from day 1 must be paramount.

 

 

I made that mistake. Instead of letting him know that his depression and general laziness was a turnoff and causing resentment and intimacy issues, I tried to protect his feelings and mine by saying it was other things. It erroded his trust in me because I think deep down he knew what it was and wanted me to have the balls to say it to him instead of shining him on and agreeing to all the "reasons" he would come up with, which were really to protect this ego. It was easier to protect his ego and dissolve the situation if I agreed with his stated reasons, rather than be confrontational and tell him his shortcomings. I didn't learn that fibbing/lieing to "protect someone" is total BS until a little later on.

[nordic]

I see your point, but doubt the lack of attraction is primarily due to him getting out of shape. People (not just men....women too) who prioritize their career very highly often neglect more than exercise. It is very difficult to be highly successful at all things at all times, you know? Being very successful in business often comes at a cost, and one cost may be time spent with the spouse and kids.

 

Furthermore, I don't see how any of this is an argument against open communication. So much could be gained if the couple talked about the imbalances, and adjusted things. What good is 800k if your marriage is tanking? Maybe this is a just a limit of my personal understanding, but that is an obvious choice to me--work less, have more time together

 

 

 

I know this happens, but luck plays a strong part. Couples who neglect the marriage in the child-rearing/working years are vulnerable to affairs in middle age. Some may make it to 30 years, but many crash and burn.

 

the 800k example was just a example of how its not always bright to be honest in all relationships, it never influenced my marriage.

 

yes, i agree that there is such a cost. on the other hand, it makes it lots easier to find a new women:-) maybe even younger and improved.

[nordic]

I made that mistake. Instead of letting him know that his depression and general laziness was a turnoff and causing resentment and intimacy issues, I tried to protect his feelings and mine by saying it was other things. It erroded his trust in me because I think deep down he knew what it was and wanted me to have the balls to say it to him instead of shining him on and agreeing to all the "reasons" he would come up with, which were really to protect this ego. It was easier to protect his ego and dissolve the situation if I agreed with his stated reasons, rather than be confrontational and tell him his shortcomings. I didn't learn that fibbing/lieing to "protect someone" is total BS until a little later on.

 

mmm, i actually believe myself in almost total honesty in my relationships, i am just too lazy to have it in any other way, and it saves so much time when you never have to think about things mean. we do that enough at work in our lives.

 

i meant in a already dysfunctional relationship people will lie for sorts of reasons, and it might even make sense. maybe its protecting the children in the end, so it may not be total bs for all people in the world.

 

your marriage might have crashed anyway, depressed people are not always in a good place to accept brutal truth being thrown at them. and their egos might need to be protected. you maybe you just did the right thing and it was doomed before you tried.

 

here are two questions where the truth might be a bad idea.

 

"honey, do i look fat in these jeans?"

 

"baby, am i really the biggest you ever had?"

 

try answering in any other way than the obvious on those and you will have a fun day ahead:)

[xxoo]

the 800k example was just a example of how its not always bright to be honest in all relationships, it never influenced my marriage.

 

In the case of a marriage, I disagree. Regardless of how many k.

 

yes, i agree that there is such a cost. on the other hand, it makes it lots easier to find a new women:-) maybe even younger and improved.

 

Sex partners, and even spouses, are replaceable. Deep love is not (for those fortunate enough to experience it).

 

I thought the spirit of this thread was supporting relationships between men and women

 

here are two questions where the truth might be a bad idea.

 

"honey, do i look fat in these jeans?"

 

"baby, am i really the biggest you ever had?"

 

try answering in any other way than the obvious on those and you will have a fun day ahead:)

 

My H's response to that kind of inquiry is, "Are you trying to turn me on?" complete with groping It works!

[Kristi can't sleep]

How about being flamed by a very much in shape U.S. AMERICAN who has a problem with someone from India who moved to THIS COUNTRY blasting U.S. WOMEN?

 

I'm not crazy about everything the US does or stands for, frankly, but it's kind of annoying when people move here and then criticize our country.

 

If I moved to Canada, I wouldn't presume to insult Canadians.

 

Why leave India in the first place?

 

Why not go back?

 

I'm sure the women in India were far more to your liking - do you even have triathlons there? (no triathlons for me, but I have ran 4 marathons and placed in two of them) Sooooo, no fatties and no athletes in India. Whatcha waiting for?

 

Trust me, it won't be a hardship for us to see the back of you.

 

Oh, and I used Canada in my example because, like the US, it's one of those countries that people WANT to live in. But maybe that's because of my one-sided US education. You tell me, does Calcutta have the same problem?

 

Btw., dufensmertz, I'd try paying cash for the airline ticket... you know how fussy airport security can be over things that bounce.

[giotto]

How do you know he is from India?

 

How about being flamed by a very much in shape U.S. AMERICAN who has a problem with someone from India who moved to THIS COUNTRY blasting U.S. WOMEN?

 

I'm not crazy about everything the US does or stands for, frankly, but it's kind of annoying when people move here and then criticize our country.

 

If I moved to Canada, I wouldn't presume to insult Canadians.

 

Why leave India in the first place?

 

Why not go back?

 

I'm sure the women in India were far more to your liking - do you even have triathlons there? (no triathlons for me, but I have ran 4 marathons and placed in two of them) Sooooo, no fatties and no athletes in India. Whatcha waiting for?

 

Trust me, it won't be a hardship for us to see the back of you.

 

Oh, and I used Canada in my example because, like the US, it's one of those countries that people WANT to live in. But maybe that's because of my one-sided US education. You tell me, does Calcutta have the same problem?

 

Btw., dufensmertz, I'd try paying cash for the airline ticket... you know how fussy airport security can be over things that bounce.

[pyroguy]

1.) You are incapable of seeing underneath actions to what they really mean, the motivations people have for doing any such action. This skill, in general, is important to understanding where misconceptions come from and how to communicate in order to overcome them.

You only expand your mind beyond the obvious when it suits you and your arguement.

You really can't see what the action of "doing the dishes" really means to a woman, can you? I'll spell it out for you yet again. You say these things are so obvious that your 21 year old self had it down pat, well you seem to have lost some wisdom along the way.

If it's just a one time thing--then no, you can't trade apples for oranges. "I'll trade you 2 days dishes for 1 night sex." Not how it works, Nordic. Sex should not be a mindess chore traded for another mindless chore. Sex as an intimate activity is not comparable to the activity of a daily chore.

Let's look a little deeper.

If "doing the dishes" translates to consistantly helping out around the house without asking, helping take care of the kids and their endless list of events, asking how her day was, telling her shes beautiful, planning a romantic evening instead of just rolling on top of her, well, then that has much more significance to a woman. "Doing the dishes" then means acts of helping, investing time into the family, investing time into her, building her self confidence, giving her some "me" time so that she can take care of herself and as a by-product look sexier and healthier for you.

It's a two way street. Women need to do this as well, but often the sterotype and misconception is that it's the women starving in this area, though not always the case. When a partner says they want more of this type of behavior, they don't just mean for one night. It's a lifetime committment.

If the everyday grind of family life and the regular maintence of romance is out of balance or neglected on one end, there will be resentment on the other. That resentment, if not communicated and delt with properly, can spiral out of control leading to deep resentment on both ends.


2. ) No sh*t.

You are nothing, but an ESCAPE for them. They tell you "Oh, I love you" and they have sex with you.

Let's look a little deeper.

The cheating man or woman--9 times out of 10-- DOES NOT love you. You are nothing more than an escape from his or her own mental issues/relationship isses. It is a selfish, immature way of escaping the truth and dealing with reality. Of course selfish people don't care if how hard you try at "doing the dishes," they are too self absorbed to notice because that would require them to see outside of their own selfish wants and needs. The resentment is deep on both ends at the point of an affair. It's just the more selfish partner who usually decides to go down this path.

You as the OM/OW are just that. You are some other form of distraction/escape. In time your trist will end and there will be consequences to pay. Escapism is not a foundation for love 99.99999995% of the time.

Whatever brings people to a point where they begin to act this immature and selfish--well, that probably came about because of lack of communication of their true wants/needs a LONG time before this. And that goes for both partners in the relationship.

 

 

Not to cause trouble here, but Can I ask? does this apply to the hollywood guys and/or the guys in the PIcs that some of the girls here were groveling over? I've noticed that most women have plenty of desire and horniness for guys who do NOTHING for them. They simply breathe the same air as their SO's. It doesn't appear as if anything nees to be done for the woman....if you're the right guy:rolleyes:. Just playing devils advocate again.

[pyroguy]

mmm, for me its also a function of womens sexual history that makes it difficult. i just dont want other men to have done anything to my woman, ever. and, of course, thats not how the world works today. but i actually would prefer a reationship with one woman, that felt sexually exclusive to me. the current lifestyle seems fun, but is a bit draining. and you loose the respect for some women, which makes it even harder to find someone special.

 

its like that quote. "good boys do get the girl, after all the bad boys had her first".

 

and really, who wants to be a good boy in that world? even if you were from onset of things.

 

Well, I'm not hung up on any number of partners or experiences. I think I'm evolved enough to understand that women, especially if their into their mid twenties and beyond, will have sexual experiences. I think most men, myself included really don't want to compete with sexual ghosts.

 

men won't admit it, but I really think that's it. I'm not proud of it, but I'm the same. I'd rather not be connected with a woman who's been with some porn star who so rocked her world that nothing I can do will ever be equal, and/or he is blessed with certain physical attributes that I cannot compete with , and worse..can do nothing about.

 

Women just don't get this. Men's ego's and emotions are tied to sex, women-more emotional (despite how sexual they are these days). Why do you think men feel like such unattractive losers when their wife doesn't want them? Yet, has plenty of attraction for other men, or as is pointed out here, they have this crazy sex with other men.

 

How would women feel if their SO had this great emotional connection with another woman. They talked about everything, but weren't really romantic and never had a physical relationship. yet, when questioned about it, he says " ahh, honey, I have the great sex with you- don't worry, her and I just have so much in common and I can share anything with her". My guess, women would be hurt and offended.

Edited May 23, 2011 by pyroguy

[nordic]

Well, I'm not hung up on any number of partners or experiences. I think I'm evolved enough to understand that women, especially if their into their mid twenties and beyond, will have sexual experiences. I think most men, myself included really don't want to compete with sexual ghosts.

 

men won't admit it, but I really think that's it. I'm not proud of it, but I'm the same. I'd rather not be connected with a woman who's been with some porn star who so rocked her world that nothing I can do will ever be equal, and/or he is blessed with certain physical attributes that I cannot compete with , and worse..can do nothing about.

 

Women just don't get this. Men's ego's and emotions are tied to sex, women-more emotional (despite how sexual they are these days). Why do you think men feel like such unattractive losers when their wife doesn't want them? Yet, has plenty of attraction for other men, or as is pointed out here, they have this crazy sex with other men.

 

How would women feel if their SO had this great emotional connection with another woman. They talked about everything, but weren't really romantic and never had a physical relationship. yet, when questioned about it, he says " ahh, honey, I have the great sex with you- don't worry, her and I just have so much in common and I can share anything with her". My guess, women would be hurt and offended.

 

This is generic male emotion, we just have to embrace it as such. no man needs to taught how to feel about his. first time we are with a gf we really care about and it dawns on us that she's been doing what feels so special to us with other men before us, it just doesnt work for us.

 

it seems to be exactly the same in all cultures all over the world, so its not culture specific, so most likely evolutionary.

 

no, it doesnt matter who ****ed your wife. you would feel better if she slutted it out with 20 total loosers?

[nordic]

 

 

Not to cause trouble here, but Can I ask? does this apply to the hollywood guys and/or the guys in the PIcs that some of the girls here were groveling over? I've noticed that most women have plenty of desire and horniness for guys who do NOTHING for them. They simply breathe the same air as their SO's. It doesn't appear as if anything nees to be done for the woman....if you're the right guy:rolleyes:. Just playing devils advocate again.

 

no it doesnt. she knows women will lust for men for sex without any commitment what so ever. but she thinks that men and women are very similar and that the husband doesnt care about that as long as he gets sex as a trade for everything else he provides. she thinks men want to be providers in order to get access to sex.

 

dont take her out of her fog.