Had a very interesting conversation, need insight

[fishtaco]

Oh, I don't want her to be gay and I will try.

 

My lesbian friend who lives next door to her, strongly believes that this girl isn't gay. She said that the girl is just awkward and doesn't even show any signs of feigning interest in women

 

I do trust her judgement more than people online who don't know her, no offense anonymous people. I still value all input.

 

I thought you already tried and she turned you down?? Did I misunderstand your post?

 

I guess I'm the type that doesn't beat around the bush. If I talked to her about it, I would have gone straight for let's go on a date. I don't really care if she "dates or not". I only care if she "dates me or not". So for me to get a general "I don't date xyz" statement, usually that's just an attempt at a "softer" excuse for turning me down. And once I'm turned down, I'm outta there.

 

Anyway, bottom line, push till you get a yes/no (or something you are satisfied with that means yes/no). Then act accordingly... i.e. take her out, or honor the "no" and never bug her about it again.

 

And yes, I would trust lesbians' thoughts on women, by default, more so than straight women.

[sanskrit]

There's a big difference between goofy/nerdy-chic and weirdo. I think you have found one of the latter. Not worth your time, which is better spent on more socially and sexually mature women.

 

Have also known this type to have hidden relationships, guys from high school, back home, or wherever that she hooks up with for sex from time to time and puts on an "asexual island" appearance otherwise.

 

Avoid.

[somedude81]

asked her if she had any crushes in high school or anything like that. that will tell you if she's leaning towards being asexual or gay.

 

i have a friend almost like that, she's a late bloomer. we could not understand that she did not have any interest in guys and she cannot even name one crush, even a celebrity lol. then some guy asked her out and it all changed everything. she may be on the process of discovering herself. i think you will be the agent for that task but it sounds like too much work with her.

Nope, no crushes on anybody. She seems like she really matches your friend. Just a late bloomer.

 

Yeah it's going to be a lot of work, actually work isn't really the right word. I like her company and would like to spend more time with her. I'll keep going after other women and if something happens with her, then it means I finally got to her

I thought you already tried and she turned you down?? Did I misunderstand your post?

 

I guess I'm the type that doesn't beat around the bush. If I talked to her about it, I would have gone straight for let's go on a date. I don't really care if she "dates or not". I only care if she "dates me or not". So for me to get a general "I don't date xyz" statement, usually that's just an attempt at a "softer" excuse for turning me down. And once I'm turned down, I'm outta there.

 

Anyway, bottom line, push till you get a yes/no (or something you are satisfied with that means yes/no). Then act accordingly... i.e. take her out, or honor the "no" and never bug her about it again.

 

And yes, I would trust lesbians' thoughts on women, by default, more so than straight women.

Yeah she turned me down and the no is solid. But it doesn't feel permanent. Spending more time with her, might get her to change her mind, might not. I don't really lose anything by trying. Since I like who she is, I don't mind spending time with her.

There's a big difference between goofy/nerdy-chic and weirdo. I think you have found one of the latter. Not worth your time, which is better spent on more socially and sexually mature women.

 

Have also known this type to have hidden relationships, guys from high school, back home, or wherever that she hooks up with for sex from time to time and puts on an "asexual island" appearance otherwise.

 

Avoid.

LOL, she might be a weirdo, but I'm not exactly normal either

 

At this point there are not other women to focus on. They all turned me down already. I probably won't meet any new girls till school starts in the summer.

 

As for her having hidden relationships. She's a virgin. Never been kissed, etc.

[sweetjasmine]

i have a friend almost like that, she's a late bloomer. we could not understand that she did not have any interest in guys and she cannot even name one crush, even a celebrity lol. then some guy asked her out and it all changed everything. she may be on the process of discovering herself. i think you will be the agent for that task but it sounds like too much work with her.

 

This is anecdotal, but I've also known a few girls like this who never really showed much interest in relationships with either gender in their teens and early 20s but then changed later on. The impression I got from conversations with two of them is that it was largely a hormone balance issue mixed with shyness and social awkwardness. They found it pretty insulting when guys didn't believe their clear "I'm not interested in dating" statements and insisted on trying to convince them otherwise as if they knew better.

 

Who knows what this girl's reasons are? It's hard to say.

[sanskrit]

She's a virgin. Never been kissed, etc.

 

My first college GF was a "virgin, never been kissed til me," I never asked, she volunteered. Then, coincidentally, I met the guy who took her to the senior prom, and he told me about the guy who dated her before him... and the one before him... and...

[fishtaco]

Yeah she turned me down and the no is solid.

 

That's enough reason to stop trying. I can't believe LS people are saying you should keep bugging a woman that already turned you down. I thought being persistent like this is annoying and stalker-ish?

 

Time spent with her would be:

 

1) the infamous bait and switch strategy that is the downfall of nice guys. Because secretly you want her to turn around and feel romantically toward you. Bad move.

2) wasting your time. Sure, you don't mind spending time with her, but think about the opportunity costs, you could be meeting other women, but instead you're stuck up her butt. Bad move.

 

Right now friendship is the only thing that's possible. So truly be her friend. I don't think you have the discipline to do that. My suggestion is to get a date with at least one other woman, then with that in your back pocket, you can come back and try to be friends with her.

 

Also, do NOT bank on what could happen in the future. "This is not permanent" is wishful thinking. I guarantee you, if you go out there and mingle, you will meet someone just as good, if not better, than this one.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I can't believe this thread!!

 

She turned you down solidly. She re-iterated in the above conversation that she is not interested. She could be lying about not having crushes on people to soften the blow. If she is a nice person, it's not exactly easy to say; "Hey, I was crazy about Tom but he turned me down" to the guy that she knows really likes her. It's the typical "It's not you, it's me" thing.

[Dust]

I can't believe this thread!!

 

She turned you down solidly. She re-iterated in the above conversation that she is not interested. She could be lying about not having crushes on people to soften the blow. If she is a nice person, it's not exactly easy to say; "Hey, I was crazy about Tom but he turned me down" to the guy that she knows really likes her. It's the typical "It's not you, it's me" thing.

 

A solid turn down would be refusing to hang out with and talk to a guy who is obviously interested romantically.

 

I’ve had girls turn me down only to change their minds through persistence. The thing is he has to be upfront about his intentions through actions.

[somedude81]

My first college GF was a "virgin, never been kissed til me," I never asked, she volunteered. Then, coincidentally, I met the guy who took her to the senior prom, and he told me about the guy who dated her before him... and the one before him... and...

I highly doubt that she's lying to me and her friends. The lesbian girl is also able to analyze her pretty well.

That's enough reason to stop trying. I can't believe LS people are saying you should keep bugging a woman that already turned you down. I thought being persistent like this is annoying and stalker-ish?

I don't think I'm being an annoying stalker. I give her plenty of space and only contact her a couple times a week.

 

1) the infamous bait and switch strategy that is the downfall of nice guys. Because secretly you want her to turn around and feel romantically toward you. Bad move.

There is no bait and switch. She knows I like her. I seriously doubt she expects me to stop liking her when I'm around her.

 

2) wasting your time. Sure, you don't mind spending time with her, but think about the opportunity costs, you could be meeting other women, but instead you're stuck up her butt. Bad move.

There is no opportunity cost. If I end up spending time with her, the only thing I'd miss out on doing is playing video games and doing stupid stuff online.

 

Spending time with a real girl and interacting with her is far better use.

 

Right now friendship is the only thing that's possible. So truly be her friend. I don't think you have the discipline to do that.

I will try to be her friend. Friends are something I could use more of.

 

How does discipline come in?

 

 

My suggestion is to get a date with at least one other woman,

Getting dates is hard. I'm not going to wait till I have one to be friends with her.

I can't believe this thread!!

 

She turned you down solidly. She re-iterated in the above conversation that she is not interested.

And that's why I'm not going to keep asking her out and just focus on being a friend. We both know I like her and if that doesn't make her want to stop being my friend, why should I let it stop me?

 

She could be lying about not having crushes on people to soften the blow. If she is a nice person, it's not exactly easy to say; "Hey, I was crazy about Tom but he turned me down" to the guy that she knows really likes her. It's the typical "It's not you, it's me" thing.

A few weeks before I asked her if she liked anybody, she gave the same answer to a girlfriend when they were talking about why she doesn't have a boyfriend.

 

Why would she lie to a female friend about that?

Edited May 13, 2011 by somedude81

[spiderowl]

For whatever reason, I don't think she's interested in dating you. She knows you are interested in a relationship and she's not so she's coming up with all sorts of reasons which amount to her not going anywhere with you fast.

 

I think you should give up on her as anything but a friend. She may be gay or bisexual and truly not that interested in dating as such. If she is gay, then you are wasting your time. I have a friend who is bisexual who shows little interest in 99.9% of guys and just a few women. Guys fall at her feet but she's really not interested. I feel for them. Just because she looks pretty and is interesting, it doesn't mean this girl will ever be attracted to you if she's not that way inclined.

 

I know you really like her. You are probably missing out on other lovely women you are barely noticing at the moment. Once you really start being aware of other women, I think you'll find someone who will feel attraction towards you and return your affection.

[fishtaco]

Spending time with a dead end is not useful. I say you don't have discipline because you don't have full control over your emotions. You can't just shut it off. That takes taking punches and kicks to the face repeatedly enough times to develop. If you don't have full control, then you're hanging out with her for the wrong reason.

 

The worst way to spend your time - video games. That's correct. Spending time with a dead end is also not useful. If you go out and mingle, even if you don't get dates, even if you get rejected, that will actually yield more useful experience than hanging out with her.

 

Success at dating is directly proportional to the number of new people you meet.

 

But, it's your choice. Seems like you're dead set on this woman. And the people of LS are surprisingly supportive of a move like this. Carry on. Best of luck to you.

[Els]

LMAO . .. .haven't really run into this but somehow I think it's true enough to find it really humorous.

 

Huh, what's wrong with this? If you told them that some Westerners have sex with a person whom they don't even intend to be in a relationship with (aka FWBs), I think they would probably find it equally humorous. Each to their own.

 

I think OP is doing the right thing by just being friends with her and being open to where it'll lead to, but not focusing on her too much. *shrug* People are often too hasty to burn bridges.

[somedude81]

Bumping my thread because I saw her today.

A solid turn down would be refusing to hang out with and talk to a guy who is obviously interested romantically.

 

I’ve had girls turn me down only to change their minds through persistence. The thing is he has to be upfront about his intentions through actions.

Very interesting point.

 

Earlier today we spent about four hours hanging out at the mall. We both had a good time.

 

She definitely knows that I really like her. But I don't know if she actually acknowledges that when we're together. Meaning, does she pretend that I'm just a guy friend who has no interest in her. Using the fact that she rejected me to rationalize that I gave up. Or does she know that I'm still very much interested in her?

 

That's one thing I never understood about women who continue to spend time with guys who they know like them? If I knew a girl liked me, and I didn't feel the same way; I would simply not spend any time with her at all. So this girl going on a non-date with me means something right?

 

Also I learned something about her today. She doesn't like affectionate touching. I tried to go for a goodbye hug and she give me a stiff arm to my chest. She explained that she's not a touchy person. Doesn't hug her friends and that her family isn't affectionate with each other.

 

Though I did touch her arms and shoulders throughout the day she never said anything or puled away.

 

Ugh this girl is going to be a challenge. Though aside from being asexual and not wanting to be hugged, she's perfect.

 

What is the best way to make persistence work?

 

My plan for our next get together is to have a game and movie night. I'll make a couple of drinks and maybe that'll get her to loosen up so I can at least put my arm around her.

 

She's already been to my place before, but never at night. So I don't know if I can get her to agree to it.

[Dust]

Bumping my thread because I saw her today.

 

Very interesting point.

 

Earlier today we spent about four hours hanging out at the mall. We both had a good time.

 

She definitely knows that I really like her. But I don't know if she actually acknowledges that when we're together. Meaning, does she pretend that I'm just a guy friend who has no interest in her. Using the fact that she rejected me to rationalize that I gave up. Or does she know that I'm still very much interested in her?

 

That's one thing I never understood about women who continue to spend time with guys who they know like them? If I knew a girl liked me, and I didn't feel the same way; I would simply not spend any time with her at all. So this girl going on a non-date with me means something right?

 

Also I learned something about her today. She doesn't like affectionate touching. I tried to go for a goodbye hug and she give me a stiff arm to my chest. She explained that she's not a touchy person. Doesn't hug her friends and that her family isn't affectionate with each other.

 

Though I did touch her arms and shoulders throughout the day she never said anything or puled away.

 

Ugh this girl is going to be a challenge. Though aside from being asexual and not wanting to be hugged, she's perfect.

 

What is the best way to make persistence work?

 

My plan for our next get together is to have a game and movie night. I'll make a couple of drinks and maybe that'll get her to loosen up so I can at least put my arm around her.

 

She's already been to my place before, but never at night. So I don't know if I can get her to agree to it.

 

You should have tried to kiss her. At worst she would have probably pushed you away and nothing would have changed.

 

Yes inviting her over and serving her drinks is a great idea. You want to get her nice and buzzed. Do shots when she firsts gets there. Heck make it a double shot glass of something hard like vodka at least. Then make her a tasty mixed drink. Try to kiss her before she is even half way through her drink.

 

You need to try to kiss her. If she doesn’t want to come to your place suggest you go out for drinks. You buy first round then say she should buy second round. After two drinks try to kiss her.

 

If you can’t get drinks involved just try to kiss her any ways. Make sure you don’t get drunk what so ever. Buzzed is fine but drunk you could end up doing something stupid. You don’t want her getting to drunk either or she’ll just want to sleep or act insane.

 

Also hit on other girls. Things may or may not work out with this girl. This means you need to try with other women. If it gets to a point where you gain momentum like you guys are making out and she seems into you.. then focus on only her.

[somedude81]

Try to kiss her? Did you miss the part where she gave me a stiff arm when I tried to hug her? She literally kept me at arms length till I gave up. If I try to surprise her with a kiss, she'd slap me. She's not ready for that.

 

She hardly ever drinks, so we won't be doing shots. I'll make us some mixed drinks since neither of us likes the taste of alcohol.

 

There is a much better chance of her coming over to play video games then going out and getting drinks.

[Dust]

Try to kiss her? Did you miss the part where she gave me a stiff arm when I tried to hug her? She literally kept me at arms length till I gave up. If I try to surprise her with a kiss, she'd slap me. She's not ready for that.

 

She hardly ever drinks, so we won't be doing shots. I'll make us some mixed drinks since neither of us likes the taste of alcohol.

 

There is a much better chance of her coming over to play video games then going out and getting drinks.

 

You think too much. I think I’ve told you this story but let me tell it to you again.

 

Once upon a time I attended a party. At this party I along with another guy was hitting on a girl. This girl among other things said I seemed like a creep, and I could swear she also said something about me seeming like a rapist.

 

Lets just say the night ended with us making out and her blowing up my phone.

 

Let me tell you another story it is of my current gf who I have been with for a few years now. She said I scared her when I first met her and didn’t like it that I touched her. She literally made an uncomfortable joke about me not raping her. I then decided to make an even more uncomfortable joke about how you can’t rape a girl who wants it.

 

The point of my stories is one thing. When you are with the right girl the only way you can screw up is by not trying. Not trying means hiding your true self and all that. Your true motives with this girl are you want her, more then just a friend. So, you need to be more then just a friend and go for things.

 

Dude if she slaps you I guarantee with the right mind frame you will have to hold back the smiles and laughter. Stop conforming to her reality and go for the things you want. You’re a respectful guy and really I doubt she will slap you. She knows the situation she has gotten herself into and it should just be funny if she continues to go out with you after how obvious you made it. Fact is if she truly doesn’t like you she just thinks you are so lame and castrated you will never make a move.

 

Make a move get slapped or what ever. Truly the worst that will probably happen is she leaves. Really I doubt she will even do that. She’ll probably just kiss you. Go for it you punk. I’m tired of giving you the advice you yourself already know. I want some payoff. I want you to get out of this loop you insist on living.

[LittleTiger]

sumedude81, you've been chasing after this girl for years (seems like it anyway) and you always get the same answer from her.

 

It really doesn't matter if she's gay or asexual, has low self-esteem, isn't attracted to you, doesn't want a relationship - the end result is always the same. She's happy to be friends with you and nothing more. Sometimes we just have to accept that an attraction isn't mutual.

 

Don't you think it's time you stopped banging your head against this particular brick wall and found another one that might be a little less impenetrable? (no pun intended!)

[Ruby Slippers]

Also to be fair guys who talk about “relationships” instead of just doing something are often hopeless. Less talk more action.

Yes

 

.......

[dispatch3d]

I think you're wasting your time on this one. I'd just move on. Who cares about her being the "perfect girl". "I don't know why you keep trying. I'm not worth it." Haha I'd be like alright, you've convinced me ;-).

 

She'd definitely miss you constantly chasing her. Why else would she want to setup this "friendship". Egoboosts are fun right? Anyhow, I just wouldn't be into it.

 

Also I only read the first line of each paragraph, to try to get a jist of what you were talking about. This is mostly because you are way into this girl, reading into everything, and it's killing your "game".

[somedude81]

The point of my stories is one thing. When you are with the right girl the only way you can screw up is by not trying. Not trying means hiding your true self and all that. Your true motives with this girl are you want her, more then just a friend. So, you need to be more then just a friend and go for things.

But I need to somehow go for it in a way that won't freak her out. It feels like I'm going to have to ease her into it.

Dude if she slaps you I guarantee with the right mind frame you will have to hold back the smiles and laughter. Stop conforming to her reality and go for the things you want. You’re a respectful guy and really I doubt she will slap you.

No, I'm pretty sure she'd slap or yell and get very mad if the time wasn't right.

 

She knows the situation she has gotten herself into and it should just be funny if she continues to go out with you after how obvious you made it. Fact is if she truly doesn’t like you she just thinks you are so lame and castrated you will never make a move.

Hopefully she understands the situation. I wish a girl would comment on that. I really don't know if she's naive or not. Or if she's rationalizing things.

 

She doesn't think I'm lame or castrated. In her situation, me trying to get a real hug is making a move. There are certain barriers I need to work through.

sumedude81, you've been chasing after this girl for years (seems like it anyway) and you always get the same answer from her.

Yeah, I've been chasing after her for a little over a year. But during that year I've felt like I've been making progress. She's definitely starting to be more comfortable and open with me.

 

It really doesn't matter if she's gay or asexual, has low self-esteem, isn't attracted to you, doesn't want a relationship - the end result is always the same. She's happy to be friends with you and nothing more. Sometimes we just have to accept that an attraction isn't mutual.

I know the attraction isn't mutual. It's never mutual for me. Girls have never liked me. So just because a girl isn't attracted to me, is not going to stop me. The fact that she still wants to spend time with me, in-spite of knowing that I like her, gives me a yellow light.

 

Also, is it impossible to think that after spending time with me, she could start to fall for me?

Don't you think it's time you stopped banging your head against this particular brick wall and found another one that might be a little less impenetrable? (no pun intended!)

No other girl has ever let me get this close. I think I'd have an "easier" time banging my head against a brick wall, than one made of steel.

I think you're wasting your time on this one. I'd just move on. Who cares about her being the "perfect girl". "I don't know why you keep trying. I'm not worth it." Haha I'd be like alright, you've convinced me ;-).

I'll move on if/when she tells me, "I never want to see you again," / something similar. Or if I meet another girl who would let me date her. When she's my only "option" there is no point in moving on.

 

She'd definitely miss you constantly chasing her. Why else would she want to setup this "friendship". Egoboosts are fun right? Anyhow, I just wouldn't be into it.

I have no idea.

Also I only read the first line of each paragraph, to try to get a jist of what you were talking about. This is mostly because you are way into this girl, reading into everything, and it's killing your "game".

Yes I am way into her.

 

And no, I've never had any game. If I did, I wouldn't be in this situation

[Dust]

Some girls did come in and write “yes” to my advice about more action less talk.

 

Now get your act together. You’ve known this girl over a year. Enough of this ease her in talk. You’ll be doing yourself a big favor by pushing things because she will either dump you or you’ll just get so fedup with her. But probably things will just work out if you try things like kissing on the lips. (I say on the lips because you seem to think hugging is a move so you’d probably go for the cheeks.)

 

Your ignorance is on purpose. You know how to be genuine yet you try to be this fake friend. Go for it! Be yourself for once in your life. Having her like you has nothing to do with anything. If you need girls to like you to be yourself then you’ll always be like this. You need to like yourself.

[Mimolicious]

I really hate to keep making threads about a girl. I don't want to seem that I only have one goal but I can't get this girl out of my head

 

Yesterday I had a really good conversation with the girl I'm infatuated with and we finally got to talking about us. She's rejected me a couple of times before, but we never really talked about why.

 

Little bit of background in case somebody doesn't know. She's 21, nerdy/geeky, awkward and goofy but really nice and fun to be around.

 

So after a bit of small talk yesterday, we got to the heart of the matter that I want to date her, but she just doesn't want to date at all.

 

For whatever reason, she just isn't interested in dating. We clarified that she's never had a boyfriend and that she's never even liked a guy in that way. She's never gone beyond feeling that a guy may be cute. We were talking about why I like her so much and she thinks it's because she's more masculine than most girls, so I can relate to her better. That makes sense and there's also the fact that she's pretty, which I regret not saying to her. I mentioned how we have a lot of common interests, but then she brought up that the stuff that I invite her to, like going salsa dancing or just working on in the gym are things she doesn't like to do.

 

I don't really mind that she doesn't like doing physical stuff and I'd be happy doing what she wants to do. I know she likes art, aquariums, anime/video games, so there are lots of places we could go.

 

She knows I like her and is fine with spending some time with me. She mentioned that she likes having lunch with me but she doesn't want to really go anywhere off-campus till she "knows me better." Which I think is odd because she's already been to my apartment a couple of times.

 

Doesn't that also imply that she would be open to going to places (dates?) with me when she feels more comfortable? We've had two semesters of class together and she spent quite a bit of time with me after class last semester. I'm not exactly a stranger to her. Heck I've already been to her house and met her Mom and brother. So what does she mean by knowing me better?

 

But then she reiterated that she doesn't want to date anybody. Then she said how she's been fine with being single and I said that she doesn't really know about relationships since she's never been in one. She said that her friends have dated so she's kind of known by proxy but she really hasn't had any desire to see for herself. I then asked if she was curious. She looked at me, smiled, her eyes changed and she said,

 

"Curious about what?"

"Well that too" I said with a smile.

"No, not really."

 

I think that was a flat out lie. Though it's easy to understand why she would lie about not being curious about sex.

 

Towards the end of the conversation she said something like; "I don't know why you keep trying, I'm not worth it." I asked her if she has confidence in herself, and after a pause she said she has enough. She then added that she doesn't want me to be "lamenting" over her.

 

She did mention that she prefers that I stop chasing her, but she's not going to hate me because I like her.

 

I would love some insight because there are some things she said that really stuck out and I get the feeling that she's not being fully honest with me or herself.

 

 

She may like girls.

[fishtaco]

And no, I've never had any game. If I did, I wouldn't be in this situation

 

Yes. Unfortunately you are right. And if you keep doing the same things, guess what? You'll still never have game. So do you want to change your dating approach/philosophy or do you want to keep doing the same thing and getting the same results? Up to you.

 

Personally I can't recommend Dust's approach. That's not my style. I push the limit, because as a man, if you don't, you fail. But I don't push that far. I push until I get a no, then I shrug, shake hands, walk away, and hit on the next one.

 

My philosophy is that the ability to meet new people and generate new options is more important than the ability to focus on one woman and make her submit. Because having options will always give you a way out of any situation. What's the worse that can happen, even after you apply Dust's approach? She can still says no. But if I have options, I don't care, I just go with my other options.

 

So I prefer to have many paths as opposed to Dust's approach of bulldozing down one path. But that's just a preference. I can't tell you which method is more successful because I've never tried his approach. So pick something, my way, Dusts way, or maybe even another way; anything but the same thing you are doing now. I guarantee you, your method will get you nowhere.

 

Oh and as to why she keeps hanging out with you -- you are her boyfriend substitute free of charge. You provide the services she needs, but she doesn't have to pay you anything in return. In the dating arena, when you give something, you have to take something of equal value. Or the other person will lose respect for you, and you fail.

[somedude81]

Boyfriend substitute? I don't think so. She actually has a close guy friend that she went to high school with. He's part of her group of friends. I met him last year when he chaperoned our "date."

 

I'm wondering what my role is. I'm a guy who likes her, who is not part of her social circle. She knows I want to date her. So why keep me around?

 

Dust's method is too hardcore for me. Isn't there some sort of middle ground?

 

What I am doing with I'm with her is ramping up the flirting.

 

Also it just feels good being with her. When we were walking around the mall I ran into a guy that I'm kinda of friends with and he was with his girlfriend who I also know. It was just really cool for both of us to be there with "our" girls. Being with her makes me feel like I'm a real person.

[Dust]

Yes. Unfortunately you are right. And if you keep doing the same things, guess what? You'll still never have game. So do you want to change your dating approach/philosophy or do you want to keep doing the same thing and getting the same results? Up to you.

 

He’s in a loop of doing things he doesn’t want to be doing. He’s done it to himself.

Personally I can't recommend Dust's approach. That's not my style. I push the limit' date=' because as a man, if you don't, you fail. But I don't push that far. I push until I get a no, then I shrug, shake hands, walk away, and hit on the next one.[/quote']

 

I don’t recommend he follow any approach but his own. Right now though he’s afraid to do the things he wants.

 

If a girl says no to me and I’m still interested and she is still willing to hang out I’ll keep trying. Eventually I’ll get bored or get something going with another girl if she keeps rejecting me.

 

 

My philosophy is that the ability to meet new people and generate new options is more important than the ability to focus on one woman and make her submit. Because having options will always give you a way out of any situation. What's the worse that can happen' date=' even after you apply Dust's approach? She can still says no. But if I have options, I don't care, I just go with my other options. [/quote']

 

There’s nothing bad that can happen. The thing is he wrongly attributes his self worth to what others think about him. Seriously I could care less if a girl smacked me in the face for trying to kiss her. He on the other hand believes its worth going into a deep depression and means he is a loser.

 

 

So I prefer to have many paths as opposed to Dust's approach of bulldozing down one path. But that's just a preference. I can't tell you which method is more successful because I've never tried his approach. So pick something' date=' my way, Dusts way, or maybe even another way; anything but the same thing you are doing now. I guarantee you, your method will get you nowhere.[/quote']

 

He needs to pick his own. A way that doesn’t involve always worrying about what random girls will think of him.

 

I don’t just bulldoze down one path. I’m usually casually dating/pursuing multiple girls before I find one I want to be my girlfriend. I just don’t give up on a girl I like until she rejects completely (refuses to see or communicate with me) or I get bored (she still sees or talks with me but I don’t enjoy it)

 

 

Oh and as to why she keeps hanging out with you -- you are her boyfriend substitute free of charge. You provide the services she needs' date=' but she doesn't have to pay you anything in return. In the dating arena, when you give something, you have to take something of equal value. Or the other person will lose respect for you, and you fail. [/quote']

 

 

A girl will hang out with you just to boost her ego. Use you as some fake girlfriend.

 

The thing is its still an opportunity. Problem is you are so concerned about making her comfortable instead of kissing her like you want. Just go for it Somedude.