The old "Can men and women be friends?" debate

[Dusk1983]

I've observed that guys are just as quick to write women off as undateable due to their physical appearance as women are men

 

Yes. But despite the stereotypes of men as shallow, our initial assessments are overridden with incredible ease.

 

You could be cynical and say "men are horny, so they simply get desperate more often", but I really don't think that's the truth. Men fall in love with women; all the time. And they fall for women they didn't even initially desire.

 

In some way, I love every one of female friends because they're beautiful people, even if I wouldn't look at them twice in the street as strangers. That love feels as real to me, albeit in a different way, as that I felt for my last girlfriend.

 

Women need to realise that the boundaries between friend and lover are, for most men, completely and utterly blurred.

 

Girls, on the other hand, seem to maintain a permanent demarcation in their heads between friendship (no initial 'chemistry') and love (initial 'chemistry'.) That seems fixed and established almost immediately after meeting a guy.

[betterdeal]

After meeting you, perhaps, but that's not everyone's experience.

 

Different folk for different strokes. Some people are happy to have sex with each other, be friendly, and not be exclusive. Others have very defined roles for everyone in their life and place special emphasis on touching, sex, affection, gifts, anything really.

 

For me the trick is in finding out what makes the other person tick and deciding how well we can operate together, in what sort of arrangement &c. For instance, I do massage swaps with a woman who is also a trained massage therapist (I am a male massage therapist). Now she comes across as quite pushy and insistent on coming out for drinks / socialising with me and has vaguely tested the waters apropos getting involved with each other. I don't want that, and prefer to keep the arrangement as is. I know my boundaries with her, and I am quite happy to maintain them. If the pushy feeling continues, I may choose to end the massage swaps.

 

Then I have been friends with women in the past who, on occasion, we'd have sex. Some of which I am friends with now, others I've lost touch with. Some we became emotionally involved, others, it was just scratching an itch together.

 

These all-men-are and all-women-are declarations are highly inaccurate at best, tedious most of the time and positively harmful quite often. Just find your own groove and don't push anyone or let anyone push you.

[Wolf18]

There is nothing worse in my opinion than an inescapable friend zone.

 

There are very few instances where I get close enough to a woman and have a lot of interests in common with her and have (in my opinion) great "chemistry", enough to talk to her for hours every day. I can count maybe 3 occasions in my whole life. Now, some of these women have boyfriends and I kept my distance romantically, but there is one occasion where the girl was single and she just wouldn't budge. I gave up.

 

What hurt me wasn't that she rejected me romantically, what hurt me is that she got close enough and intimate enough with me where she wanted to see me all the time and would sleep over etc and be all over me. It was by no means a "friend zone" situation where I did everything for her and got nothing in return, she did as much for me as i did for her and we were genuinely friends who loved eachother's company and wanted to spend all our free time with eachother, virtually everyone thought we were together romantically actually.

Suddenly after I kept making moves, she had that nasty talk that she liked me a lot but she couldn't be with me.

 

This is the part that hurts. She loves my personality and character to the point where she trusts me completely and wants to spend all her time with me, yet she doesn't want me romantically. We get angry at the friend zone because you love our personality, but reject us for purely superficial reasons (no chemistry= not attracted to your looks). It shows you that no matter how much of a once in a life time connection you have with a woman (who by the way, anyone who asks will tell you this girl is well-within my league), she will reject you and instead have sex and romance with a guy she doesn't have half as much in common with for his looks or status. How is it possible to talk to someone for hours a day, trust them with everything, share so many memories with them...and still not be romantically interested in them? Ask women :/

 

A public service by women would be to only get authentically close to men you are attracted to or have a possibility of being attracted to. Don't become the best friend of a guy you would never want to date, because we men are spiritually destroyed when you reject us.

[DreamerGirl27]

There is nothing worse in my opinion than an inescapable friend zone.

 

There are very few instances where I get close enough to a woman and have a lot of interests in common with her and have (in my opinion) great "chemistry", enough to talk to her for hours every day. I can count maybe 3 occasions in my whole life. Now, some of these women have boyfriends and I kept my distance romantically, but there is one occasion where the girl was single and she just wouldn't budge. I gave up.

 

What hurt me wasn't that she rejected me romantically, what hurt me is that she got close enough and intimate enough with me where she wanted to see me all the time and would sleep over etc and be all over me. It was by no means a "friend zone" situation where I did everything for her and got nothing in return, she did as much for me as i did for her and we were genuinely friends who loved eachother's company and wanted to spend all our free time with eachother, virtually everyone thought we were together romantically actually.

Suddenly after I kept making moves, she had that nasty talk that she liked me a lot but she couldn't be with me.

 

This is the part that hurts. She loves my personality and character to the point where she trusts me completely and wants to spend all her time with me, yet she doesn't want me romantically. We get angry at the friend zone because you love our personality, but reject us for purely superficial reasons (no chemistry= not attracted to your looks). It shows you that no matter how much of a once in a life time connection you have with a woman (who by the way, anyone who asks will tell you this girl is well-within my league), she will reject you and instead have sex and romance with a guy she doesn't have half as much in common with for his looks or status. How is it possible to talk to someone for hours a day, trust them with everything, share so many memories with them...and still not be romantically interested in them? Ask women :/

 

A public service by women would be to only get authentically close to men you are attracted to or have a possibility of being attracted to. Don't become the best friend of a guy you would never want to date, because we men are spiritually destroyed when you reject us.

 

 

Reverse that and that is my situation with a guy. I got the same feeling at the end of your whole post that you got. Feeling spiritually destroyed.

[DreamerGirl27]

And you don't say this because?

 

Because what I really want to tell him is "call me up, ask me out on a date, date me and fall in love with me dammit and then eff me"

 

But he is hawt, so... that came out first.

[Wolf18]

Reverse that and that is my situation with a guy. I got the same feeling at the end of your whole post that you got. Feeling spiritually destroyed.

 

Did you get sex out of it atleast? I'm pretty sure most guys would have sex with their female friends, even if they're not that great looking .

 

I pretty much was in a relationship, but with some other dude using her for sex. If I would've gotten some velvet along side my friendship with her...well actually then it would've been a relationship!

[DreamerGirl27]

Did you get sex out of it atleast? I'm pretty sure most guys would have sex with their female friends, even if they're not that great looking .

 

I pretty much was in a relationship, but with some other dude using her for sex. If I would've gotten some velvet along side my friendship with her...well actually then it would've been a relationship!

 

No. He won't even do that.

[DreamerGirl27]

He brings up sex a lot and I asked him once if he was offering and he said "negatory". Then he said something about why he'd be a bad way for a first time.

[thehead]

He brings up sex a lot and I asked him once if he was offering and he said "negatory". Then he said something about why he'd be a bad way for a first time.

 

Sorry to say this but it just doesn't get much clearer. He's really not into you.

Don't waste your time. Find someone who is.

[DreamerGirl27]

Sorry to say this but it just doesn't get much clearer. He's really not into you.

Don't waste your time. Find someone who is.

 

I'm not into anyone else.

[DreamerGirl27]

Sorry to say this but it just doesn't get much clearer. He's really not into you.

Don't waste your time. Find someone who is.

 

If I found someone who is, would he be his clone, meaning he would look exactly like him, smell exactly like him, talk exactly like him, etc. only have better DNA in the part of his brain that makes him like retarded girls that aren't me?

 

Because at this point, that is who I am looking for. I'd rather pluck my eyeballs outta my head one by one than be with anyone else at the moment.

[utterer of lies]

If I found someone who is, would he be his clone, meaning he would look exactly like him, smell exactly like him, talk exactly like him, etc. only have better DNA in the part of his brain that makes him like retarded girls that aren't me?

 

Because at this point, that is who I am looking for. I'd rather pluck my eyeballs outta my head one by one than be with anyone else at the moment.

 

Grow up. Or die lonely.

[oldguy]

Yes,

absolutely.

[Darren Taylor]

If there's no physical attraction, then yes. Otherwise, no.

[oldguy]

I'm not sure about that, I have had a long term female friend, we even dated many years ago when we where in our teens, I think she is very pretty, I always have, but I respect our friendship way too much to think of her as anything but a friend. Of course she is also friends with my wife and I am friends with her husband. Come to think of it; it just seems wrong to think of her any other way but a good friend who has been there.

[fwang]

I'm not sure about that, I have had a long term female friend, we even dated many years ago when we where in our teens, I think she is very pretty, I always have, but I respect our friendship way too much to think of her as anything but a friend. Of course she is also friends with my wife and I am friends with her husband. Come to think of it; it just seems wrong to think of her any other way but a good friend who has been there.

 

 

You are married. She is married. Of course you guys can be friends.

 

"A man can be friends with a woman no problem... provided he's in a relationship, she's in a relationship, she's ugly or he's gay."

 

This is so true. lol

[makelemonade1974]

Devilish - our "relationship" began as a working relationship. We are both writers and would read each other's work and provide feedback. In fact, the first time we met I was like "will you be my reader?" and he's like "will you be MY reader," and things worked out rather well after that. All of our drink dates were scheduled to talk about our writing Over time, we became friends because we saw each other a lot. Then I started confiding in him about my ex and he would give me advice. He's very level-headed and he was helpful in providing an objective viewpoint.

 

I don't find him repulsive - just not attractive. It's sad.

[NeoGen85]

I would just like to say that there's is nothing wrong with you at all or him. He just does not know how to handle the situation with you two. The only way this can be fix is if another woman who he finds attractive has mutual interest in him. I know this because I use to dig one of my best friends and it took another woman to pull me away.

 

Either that, or you're going to need a change of tone with him. And if he wants to hang out with you, you'll need to tell him that your schedule is full. Bring another male body around that you do find attractive. Either way you will break is heart, and he'll get it over.

[oldguy]

You are married. She is married. Of course you guys can be friends.

 

"A man can be friends with a woman no problem... provided he's in a relationship, she's in a relationship, she's ugly or he's gay."

 

This is so true. lol

 

Okay, I didn't understand the rules :-)

So why did my ex had such a problem I wonder

[EasyHeart]

Devilish - our "relationship" began as a working relationship. We are both writers and would read each other's work and provide feedback. In fact, the first time we met I was like "will you be my reader?" and he's like "will you be MY reader," and things worked out rather well after that. All of our drink dates were scheduled to talk about our writing Over time, we became friends because we saw each other a lot. Then I started confiding in him about my ex and he would give me advice. He's very level-headed and he was helpful in providing an objective viewpoint.

 

I don't find him repulsive - just not attractive. It's sad.

I think that often women don't understand the male perspective on friendship. Men rarely talk about serious or personal stuff with their friends. We do stuff together or argue with each other about politics and sports. Sometimes we'll talk about work or taxes or investments, but that's pretty much our limit for "serious" talks. Talking about our feelings and emotions and such is for our wives and girlfriends (to the extent we're 'allowed' to talk about them at all, which is a whole different topic)

 

So when we meet a woman who talks to us about serious and personal stuff, then she moves (psychologically) from potential friend to potential girlfriend, because THAT'S the kind of stuff we talk about with girlfriends, not male friends. We start to develop emotional intimacy with her, which is something we don't normally have with "friends". Women seem to do things the other way around -- female friends are for emotional talking, boyfriends are to take her places and plan activities for her.

 

I think that's why we get this confusion with male-female friendships. From the female perspective, she's thinking "Oh, I can talk to him about anything! He's just like a girlfriend!" and from the male perspective, he's thinking "Wow, I can talk to her about anything! She seems to really trust me and want to get close to me! She's just like a girlfriend!"

 

They're both right, they just look at friendships and relationships differently.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Some of my closest friends are men. Some of them are gay, some straight, some are married to women friends of mine. Two of them are ex boyfriends (one of them has remained my dear friend for over 30 years!) and one of them had "unrequited love" for me while we were in our 20's.

[thatdog]

. Then I started confiding in him about my ex and he would give me advice. .

 

And this is obviously where things went wrong...

[Feelin Frisky]

Males and females have a better chance at being just real friends after they've gotten into middle age. Before that it is a crap shoot. If two healthy young people of the opposite gender are going to have each other's company in some way, feelings are going to happen in some cases. Even if a guy doesn't have an interest in the woman in "that" way going in, the amount of herself that she shows him may sway him emotionally on deep levels. Say, she literally cries about something heartbreaking in her life on his shoulder. He didn't know that he'd be considered for that. Now is he supposed to not have a heart, not have a gut, not have question marks in his mind about what he means and where he stands? It's ludicrous to think there's a single universal answer to this. The bottom line is that if there is any real hard unwillingness to ever entertain a fling with a guy, the relationship should probably go not much further than e-mail. If you're 50 and falling apart it's different.

[EyeJustDontKnow]

I am just going to come right out and say it, most men are dumb.

 

And since I am a guy I don't feel bad saying that.

 

What I mean is, even the most well intentioned guy is going to have a hard time separating the inner person from a woman that he may be even only slightly attracted to. I know women who bring up this topic and wonder why a guy they considered "just a friend" is into them. And in some cases flat out refuse to believe that is the case when everybody else can see it...it must just be a natural thing to her but to him he sees things like being asked for advice, crying on his shoulder and the like as steps towards something more intimate.

 

I think the bottom line is that everybody, male and female need to guard themselves from things like this. Especially when in a relationship. What may be perfectly innocent to you (and by you I mean the royal you) might be read in a totally different manner by the other party.

 

Sometimes easier said than done but to ignore it altogether is at best tedious and at worst a disaster waiting to happen.

[DreamerGirl27]

I don't keep male friends I'm not attracted to. It isn't nice.