The old "Can men and women be friends?" debate

[Rinnix]

I have this happen to me often too. I like having male friends, but then they get interest in me. Back to square one.

 

I had to cut contact with many old guy friends because they didn't respect boundaries or assumed that "just friends" means "keep trying."

 

I have a partner so I don't go out often 1 on 1 with other males either. If I'm out it's in a group setting and they know I'm taken. Boggles the mind.

 

All you can continue to do is be honest. Tell him how you will not be more then friends. If he keeps going over boundaries then consider spending less alone time with him. (More group settings) Or see eachother less until feelings go down.

[Dusk1983]

This is BS. Men also take more interest in women they initially find attractive. If she's not attractive to us, but has a great personality and makes an effort to be friends, then some of us will reciprocate. But in this case where she is making a strong effort, she probably likes you more than friends. Still, there may be all kinds of social scenarios that keep it in the friend-zone.

 

That has nothing to do with my point. Sure, both sexes pay the opposite more attention if they find them attractive. That's a given.

 

But, in my experience, a woman puts a guy in a category very soon after meeting him, and there is virtually no chance of that category changing. It's all about the initial 'chemistry'.

 

Men, on the other hand,frequently do go from not finding a woman attractive - at all - to falling hard for her over the course of a friendship, as those shared experiences and intellectual connections grow into a genuine intimacy.

 

And the funny thing is, women will always tell you this is how men should be, how they want men to be. But they themselves don't work like that. And even complain when we do.

[EasyHeart]

Men, on the other hand,frequently do go from not finding a woman attractive - at all - to falling hard for her over the course of a friendship, as those shared experiences and intellectual connections grow into a genuine intimacy.

In 35 years of dating, I have never once had this experience, nor have I ever heard any man say this. I decide whether a woman is potential dating material the moment I see her, and pretty much nothing is going to change that.

[EasyHeart]

I'm not good with stone-cold bitch, but working on it.

ZOMG, you can practice on us; that's what we're here for.

 

Give us a look that says, "Don't even think about it, buster!" and we'll tell you how you do.

[betterdeal]

I wonder, how many people (men and women) who find inter-gender relationships so difficult to maintain don't have brothers or sisters?

[carhill]

I've had many successful and fulfilling inter-gender relationships and am an only child of two parents who were married for life and provided a drama-free home base to grow up in. Perhaps it's the drama-free home base which is more important than the only child. Unknown. One datapoint.

[betterdeal]

I hear you. Thinking about it, I have female friends who are good at friendships who have no brothers, but all have a great sense of self-identity, and supporting parents. When women say they think of me, or treat me like, a brother that's it: I think of them like one of my sisters. It's like a switch in my head.

 

But overall, I guess it's not how we fall but how we land that matters.

Edited May 12, 2011 by betterdeal

[fwang]

I don't think so. A guy at first chooses to be your friends only because he finds you are physically attractive.

 

I used to have 2 good male friends. And I know that they had special feelings for me at that time. We hanged out and partied together for almost 1 year. Now, they have girlfriends respectively. I remembered the last time we talked on the phone is 3 month ago. lol

[Dust]

Yes men and women can be friends, but it requires boundaries that are probably being crossed by both of you. Also while men and women can be friends, a specific man and a specific woman may have no hope of ever being platonic.

[fwang]

I wonder, how many people (men and women) who find inter-gender relationships so difficult to maintain don't have brothers or sisters?

 

I am the only child and my family is broken. Mom passed away and Dad is

in prison.

 

I have never been in love before. The longest relationship I ever had only lasts 2 months.

 

I guess I am trying to find a partner who can replace my family. Of course it won't work out.

[betterdeal]

That sounds like a really difficult starting point.

 

I think finding a way to live that makes you happy is a better goal. It might involve a lover, but it doesn't have to. And by building a life you're happy with, if you meet someone you like you can add them to your happy life instead of rely on them too much to create that happy life.

[nyc_guy2003]

if that's you on that photo, then i think you're stunning

 

Definitely agree.

[nyc_guy2003]

A guy at first chooses to be your friends only because he finds you are physically attractive.

 

Believe it or not I kind of agree with this. I think back to all the female friends I have proactively chosen to have versus female friends that approached me first. Of the ones I approached first, I would say 90%+ of them are very good looking. Of the ones that approached me first, probably 30-40% of them are good looking.

[alphamale]

This guy is really nice...

there is problem #1

 

 

 

Do I need to just restrict my friendships to friendships with either women or gay men?

pretty much yes

[chuckles11]

 

Men, on the other hand,frequently do go from not finding a woman attractive - at all - to falling hard for her over the course of a friendship, as those shared experiences and intellectual connections grow into a genuine intimacy.

 

And the funny thing is, women will always tell you this is how men should be, how they want men to be. But they themselves don't work like that. And even complain when we do.

 

 

I agree with EasyHeart, I've never had this happen and I don't think I can ever remember one of my friends doing this either. I've observed that guys are just as quick to write women off as undateable due to their physical appearance as women are men, if not more so.

 

As for the OP, I think that some guys just can't take no for answer and don't realize that they should move on mentally and look for new dating prospects once they get friendzoned. Guys like this agree to continue to hang out with you because they see it as an opportunity to continue to audition for the role of love interest.

[alphamale]

Guys like this agree to continue to hang out with you because they see it as an opportunity to continue to audition for the role of love interest.

yea well they are fools who have no idea how womens feelings operate

[ASG]

A few years ago a friend of mine fell in love with me. It sucked for me, cause I could spend HOURS talking to this guy, we had everything in common! But I wasn't attracted and the awkward factor was also very high.

But he wouldn't give up. I noticed and tried to deflect and we would very rarely hang out one on one, except when I drove him home after or nights out with friends, as we were neighbours and he didn't drive.

Then at one point he decided to tell me how he felt. And I had to tell him that it was never going to happen... It was a nasty conversation.

He backed off for a while, but we continued hanging out, cause our group of friends was always hanging out. Every once in a while he would try again. And I would reject him. Again.

At some point he stopped trying and now that I've moved contries, I think he has moved on. We still hang out a lot when I go visit.

 

That being said, though, I do have several male friends who I have no interest in sleeping with and most of them feel the same way. They are kinda like older brothers. Some of them I've known all my life.

 

So yes, men and women can be friends. You just need to respect boundaries.

[fortyninethousand322]

I often seem to end up in this situation where I have a close guy friend that I'm not attracted to who ends up "falling in love" with me (for lack of a better phrase) or some such thing. The most recent one is problematic, because I have had "the talk" with him several times - "the talk" consisting of - "you know we are never going to date or have sex, right?" but in sort of a nicer way, or after we've both been drinking so it comes across easier.

 

This guy is really nice and we've become rather close over the past few months, but he talks out of both sides of his mouth. He's like "yeah, we are NEVER going to date" and then he gets ridiculously flirty - head leans in, etc. Last night he kissed me on the cheek when I complimented his photos (he's a part-time photog). Gheesh.

 

WHY does this keep happening to me? Am I doing something unconscious to make him believe I'm interested in him? Body language or something? Do I need to just restrict my friendships to friendships with either women or gay men?

 

Well I'll be quite honest I have met exactly three women in my life with whom I could truly be friends with. One is a coworker 20 years my senior, another is a girl I grew up with, and the third is a girl that I find extremely annoying but who is probably the biggest expert on the Af/Pak region I have ever met (I could listen to her talk about it for hours and never be bored).

 

Anyway, the other girls that I'm friendly with are all girls who are my friends girlfriends, I don't really count them as "friends". I'm not interested in them, they're not interested in me, it's "safe". Otherwise I don't think I could ever truly be friends with an interesting single girl (other than the ones listed above) because eventually I think I might develop an interest in them. There are always exceptions of course, but I think I've met those already.

[sanskrit]

If I were a single woman, attracted to men generally, and my male friends hit on me, I'd have sex with them because I'd want to make my friends feel good. There would be a baseline of attractiveness they'd have to meet, but it wouldn't be nearly as high as my standard baseline. If they started to demand too much or get lovey, I'd say "Cut that sh-t out right now or this vajayjay gonna grow teeth real fast. If you want to keep getting the hokey-poke, man up."

 

Mostly I expect they would just be grateful, and I'd reply, "Hey man, what are friends for? If you can't f_ck your friends, who can ya f_ck?"

 

No?

 

EDIT: Just wanted to qualify that if they weren't good at it and couldn't make me come regularly, I'd give them some time to improve their technique then cut them off if they didn't improve, "Find that button or you're gettin nothin" kind of attitude.

Edited May 13, 2011 by sanskrit

[Red Arremer]

A woman can be friends with a man no problem.

 

A man can be friends with a woman no problem... provided he's in a relationship, she's in a relationship, she's ugly or he's gay. Otherwise he's most likely thinking about boning you every chance he gets. Or not otherwise.

[Els]

Sure they can be just friends. Doesn't mean that they always will be. You indeed could be sending out wrong signals. You say you've been 'getting close' over the past few months. Define close?

[thatone]

i don't have many female friends. the few i do is because there's a natural boundary, rather than a stated one. two that come to mind are sisters of a male friend. why? because when i was around them, he was there. it would take a true jackass to hit on a male friend's sister in front of him, that's something you just don't do. so there was always a boundary there. not that they weren't attractive, especially when they were younger (we've known each other since high school). one is incredibly attractive even 15 years later.

 

all that said, the few that do not have a natural boundary, such as being a male friend's sister, got that way because they did not try to put something on me or get something from me that their boyfriend/husband/whatever didn't do for them. and when i say few, i mean few. as in, off the top of my head, three in all my adult years.

 

 

I can say, without exception, *every* female friend in my lifetime has attempted (some have succeeded) in turning me into a girlfriend, complaint box and tampon. They slide down the slippery slope of intimacy with a man and wonder why his penis gets in their way. They make the choice. I start with interests and interest in their interests. I don't flirt. My hands don't roam. My lips don't search for theirs.

 

Women, in general, want it both ways. They want their 'network' and they like feeling 'special', even with platonic male friends. They know exactly what they're doing when they do it. I see it every day. I see it with women I interact with privately on LS. I accept it as their truth.

 

the above is all absolutely true, your spoken boundaries as women aren't worth the air used to speak them, because 90+% of you have put stuff on your supposed male 'friends' that your boyfriend/husband/whatever didn't care to listen to, or asked your male 'friends' to do something for you that your boyfriend/husband/whatever doesn't do. that ain't friendship, honey. that's you taking advantage of someone's desire to get something that your boyfriend/husband/whatever doesn't give you. and 90% is being quite generous, 99.9% is probably closer to accurate.

 

I'm not good with stone-cold bitch, but working on it. Thanks for helping with the "boundaries" thing. He is limited to lunches from now on. Yeah, the huge "he's interested in me" sign was definitely his inability to act detached when I talk about other guys or even talk TO other guys in his presence. Yikes. Dinner / drinks is probably not a good idea. Sucks because men are much better drinking buddies than girls.

 

why persist? he made his intentions obvious, you said no. that's the end. letting him buy you lunch isn't gonna change his mind.

 

you said yourself that he's insecure and that's why you're not attracted to him, all you're doing is making him try harder. you like being friends with insecure people? of course not, you like being able to get what you want from insecure people, without having to give them what they want in return.

 

you wanna be a true friend to him?

 

stop calling him

stop having meals with him

stop drinking with him

go away

[DreamerGirl27]

In my experience, it goes both ways.

 

Me=friend zoned by the most attractive man I've ever met. He's not even universally attractive....or I dunno, he could be, but he's not like... some model type, muscly, macho guy...he's actually quite stick thin and doesn't have a lot of meat on him lawl, if you cut off his hair and added glasses and took away his killer wardrobe, he'd look like a nerd, lol ...okay...wait...no, he still would look hawt. (yes, I have it bad)

 

and I am dying to cross that "line" with him, but he has told me he only views me as a friend.

 

It's a soulless pit of a friendship nobody ever wants to be in and I am the girl saying this.

 

I really wanna just tell him, "will you eff me already dammit?!"

 

No joke. I'm hella attracted.

[DreamerGirl27]

Originally Posted by makelemonade1974

I'm not good with stone-cold bitch, but working on it. Thanks for helping with the "boundaries" thing. He is limited to lunches from now on. Yeah, the huge "he's interested in me" sign was definitely his inability to act detached when I talk about other guys or even talk TO other guys in his presence. Yikes. Dinner / drinks is probably not a good idea. Sucks because men are much better drinking buddies than girls.

 

You are aware that drinking makes you loose and horny, aren't you? Why would you put yourself in a situation like that with a guy you don't like?

 

[betterdeal]

I really wanna just tell him, "will you eff me already dammit?!"

 

And you don't say this because?