How we treat cheaters on this board

[bentnotbroken]

Is this a case of the chicken and the egg? Unless i'm wrong, I seem to remember TB posting how remorseful he was and glad he chose his wife, how happy he was being back with her and many OW came at him hard. So, he fought back, went on the defensive as many people here do when they're attacked.

 

 

He hasn't been the only one. But he took a pretty big beating.

[tami-chan]

Is this a case of the chicken and the egg? Unless i'm wrong, I seem to remember TB posting how remorseful he was and glad he chose his wife, how happy he was being back with her and many OW came at him hard. So, he fought back, went on the defensive as many people here do when they're attacked.

 

He was not only happy to be back with his wife and working on the marriage ( we applaud him ) but He was calling his OW all kinds of things and was very, very nasty. If he had chosen to divorce his wife to be his mistress and said nasty stuff about his wife, he would have gotten the same treatment from the BSs.

[thomasb]

I don't name call, never have. I did however speak of actions. And she certainly invited that with her choices when I ended it.

[LilyBart]

He was not only happy to be back with his wife and working on the marriage ( we applaud him ) but He was calling his OW all kinds of things and was very, very nasty. If he had chosen to divorce his wife to be his mistress and said nasty stuff about his wife, he would have gotten the same treatment from the BSs.

 

You know Tami, this is my theory:

 

The sheer fact that this is STILL a topic of discussion some 20+ years (or whatever the number is) post-A, means the OW is STILL on his mind.

 

He can insist all he wants about how he chose his W, how happy he is and what scum the OW was.....but love and hate are two sides of the same coin.

 

Unless one can get to the stage of "indifference" - this OW still has a hold on him. And spewing vitriol about her is because he hates the fact that she's residing in his mind.

[bentnotbroken]

Sometimes the indifference is not an option when the AP does not go away or goes after the BS or children. The bunny boiler. Not saying that is the case for all or even a majority, but some people have had that experience. From Thomas previous post..that was his experience. It is kind of hard to speak kindly of a person who goes after your family. There are a couple of other sites where the AP has stalked the BS (and BS have stalked AP). It is a very real situation for some and it has nothing to do with the happiness of the marriage,but of the need to protect family from non-family.

[donnamaybe]

You know Tami, this is my theory:

 

The sheer fact that this is STILL a topic of discussion some 20+ years (or whatever the number is) post-A, means the OW is STILL on his mind.

 

He can insist all he wants about how he chose his W, how happy he is and what scum the OW was.....but love and hate are two sides of the same coin.

 

Unless one can get to the stage of "indifference" - this OW still has a hold on him. And spewing vitriol about her is because he hates the fact that she's residing in his mind.

 

This is so transparent!

[thomasb]

So very true, BNB.

DM, I have seen so many times since I have been here, where an OW or OM thinks that their affair partner has fond memories of the affair. That is just not true for me. When I think back to that time it just makes me feel sick about what I did. I feel nothing but horror that I caused my wife so much pain and showed my children such a bad example! And I doubt it is very much different for a lot of wandering spouses.

 

And Tami and Lily... thanks for completely backing up my statement! You proved my point.

Edited May 17, 2011 by thomasb

[tami-chan]

You know Tami, this is my theory:

 

The sheer fact that this is STILL a topic of discussion some 20+ years (or whatever the number is) post-A, means the OW is STILL on his mind.

 

He can insist all he wants about how he chose his W, how happy he is and what scum the OW was.....but love and hate are two sides of the same coin.

 

Unless one can get to the stage of "indifference" - this OW still has a hold on him. And spewing vitriol about her is because he hates the fact that she's residing in his mind.

 

I don't really know his full story, but of the posts that I read by him, he said a lot of nasty things about his OW. But...wow....20+ years ago, post-A? he must have treated his wife horribly! Perhaps talking about his xOW the way he does now alleviates the guilt somehow. Somebody needs to forgive himself and heal.

[tami-chan]

I don't name call, never have. I did however speak of actions. And she certainly invited that with her choices when I ended it.

 

hmmm...I didn't say you were name-calling, although I am not sure if you haven't. It does not make you a better person by trashing her when she can't defend herself. But I am pretty sure you do not see anything wrong with that. Somehow that kind of thing only works one way.

[whichwayisup]

hmmm...I didn't say you were name-calling, although I am not sure if you haven't. It does not make you a better person by trashing her when she can't defend herself. But I am pretty sure you do not see anything wrong with that. Somehow that kind of thing only works one way.

 

How is what TB has said about his exOW any different about an OW trashing or venting about their exMM? Or complaining about a current MM? He isn't here to defend himself. Or an OW trashing the MM's wife? She isn't here to defend herself.

 

People post for themselves, talk about stuff in their life, whether it be about a spouse, a boyfriend, a MM, a MW, or in other sections, a parent, a sibling, a friend. None of them are here to defend themselves to what's being said. Is that wrong too? I know at times I've posted and said some stuff about my mom when things were crap between her and I.

[betterdeal]

hmmm...I didn't say you were name-calling, although I am not sure if you haven't. It does not make you a better person by trashing her when she can't defend herself. But I am pretty sure you do not see anything wrong with that. Somehow that kind of thing only works one way.

 

I was once stopped by the police and given a speeding ticket for doing 53mph on a motorway at 6am on a Sunday morning. The normal speed limit is 70mph but there were roadworks about 500 metres ahead and the limit had been restricted to 40mph. I called that copper all sorts of names after he was gone.

 

Would I do the same now? No. Did it make me a better person? Yes, I felt relief afterwards and dispelled the fear / anger that I had in response to that interference in my business by that person. Thus I drove better, safer and didn't take it out by kicking a puppy / baby penguin or other such harmful way.

 

Mouthing off can let off steam. Doing it by typing on a PC with the vague notion that some other, random, unconnected people will read it can be cathartic.

[tami-chan]

I was once stopped by the police and given a speeding ticket for doing 53mph on a motorway at 6am on a Sunday morning. The normal speed limit is 70mph but there were roadworks about 500 metres ahead and the limit had been restricted to 40mph. I called that copper all sorts of names after he was gone.

 

Would I do the same now? No. Did it make me a better person? Yes, I felt relief afterwards and dispelled the fear / anger that I had in response to that interference in my business by that person. Thus I drove better, safer and didn't take it out by kicking a puppy / baby penguin or other such harmful way.

 

Mouthing off can let off steam. Doing it by typing on a PC with the vague notion that some other, random, unconnected people will read it can be cathartic.

 

Ok, unless the the cop somehow was related to you emotionally and/or physically the analogy is a bit off....but I understand what you are trying to say....you were just letting off steam...thomasB was not letting off steam....somebody claimed his affair was 20+ years ago...if that is true...my gosh, that's a long time of letting off steam!!!! Somebody needs to just let it go!

[bentnotbroken]

How is what TB has said about his exOW any different about an OW trashing or venting about their exMM? Or complaining about a current MM? He isn't here to defend himself. Or an OW trashing the MM's wife? She isn't here to defend herself.

 

People post for themselves, talk about stuff in their life, whether it be about a spouse, a boyfriend, a MM, a MW, or in other sections, a parent, a sibling, a friend. None of them are here to defend themselves to what's being said. Is that wrong too? I know at times I've posted and said some stuff about my mom when things were crap between her and I.

 

 

YUP. BS have been trashed as being abusive, lazy, fat, drunks...all with only the word of the poster and not a way to defend themselves.

[bentnotbroken]

Ok, unless the the cop somehow was related to you emotionally and/or physically the analogy is a bit off....but I understand what you are trying to say....you were just letting off steam...thomasB was not letting off steam....somebody claimed his affair was 20+ years ago...if that is true...my gosh, that's a long time of letting off steam!!!! Somebody needs to just let it go!

 

 

His story was that the OW was now harassing the family. He isn't the only one who should let it go(been there done that).

[Fugu]

I think people are getting carried away in their descriptions of cheaters and painting with broad brushes. Not all cheaters fall into some neat little category, as people end up cheating for different reasons. The one thing they have in common is that they've chosen a dishonest and counterproductive way of solving a problem in their marriage, but that doesn't mean that the BS isn't at least partly to blame, and I think that's what a lot of BS don't want to think about. For them, the blame goes in only one direction, which is sometimes valid, but sometimes it's not.

[Snowflower]

YUP. BS have been trashed as being abusive, lazy, fat, drunks...all with only the word of the poster and not a way to defend themselves.

 

Oh yeah!

 

I have seen where OW with too much time on their hands posts all these personal details about the BW of her MM. How bad the wife and the marriage is...it's quite pathetic.

 

Details no doubt spoonfed from her MM. But geez, the unknowing BW has all these details about her childhood, her supposed sexual hang-ups, her parenting skills, housekeeping skills, you name it all posted out here on a public forum with out her knowledge or consent.

 

It's bad enough that the OW is sleeping with her husband but to post personal details. Now, that is bad!

 

Can't even really blame the MM for that because while he is the one who is sharing all these details with a 3rd party, he isn't the one who (likely) told his OW to go post what he said.

[confusedinkansas]

I think people are getting carried away in their descriptions of cheaters and painting with broad brushes. Not all cheaters fall into some neat little category, as people end up cheating for different reasons. The one thing they have in common is that they've chosen a dishonest and counterproductive way of solving a problem in their marriage, but that doesn't mean that the BS isn't at least partly to blame, and I think that's what a lot of BS don't want to think about. For them, the blame goes in only one direction, which is sometimes valid, but sometimes it's not.

 

EXACTLY.............

 

Now I'm going to duck & Fugu you should probably do the same.......

Watch out for the backlash!!!

[bentnotbroken]

I think people are getting carried away in their descriptions of cheaters and painting with broad brushes. Not all cheaters fall into some neat little category, as people end up cheating for different reasons. The one thing they have in common is that they've chosen a dishonest and counterproductive way of solving a problem in their marriage, but that doesn't mean that the BS isn't at least partly to blame, and I think that's what a lot of BS don't want to think about. For them, the blame goes in only one direction, which is sometimes valid, but sometimes it's not.

 

 

BS is partial to blame for the problems and issue within the marriage, NOT the affair. There is no reason for them to accept blame for something they didn't do or for the lies and deciet that go with it.

[Fugu]

You are you saying that it is alright to be abusive on the net? Do you not think that people should be able to control their emotions and nip that abusive streak even though they are "unseen"? There is value in being consistent, you know? Abuse is abuse is abuse.

 

I am not saying it is alright to be abusive; I was just pointing out that there might be some good that can come out of it. I still would advocate that people on these boards treat confessed wandering spouses with some degree of respect, because in the end, I think that whatever advice one has to give will be better received if the poster doesn't feel like they're being ripped to shreds. The BS-bashing will only make posters defensive -- doesn't get us anywhere. At the same time, in spite of the above, I do think that there might be some value in having an adulterer see just how bitter betrayal can leave people. I sometimes get the sense that they don't really appreciate that until the truth is finally aired out in their own home, and even then, there might be a tendency to assume that "It's just him/her." When they come here, BS understand that perhaps the pain and anger that cheating causes is almost universal.

[confusedinkansas]

BS is partial to blame for the problems and issue within the marriage, NOT the affair. There is no reason for them to accept blame for something they didn't do or for the lies and deciet that go with it.

 

Yes, BUT everyone chooses different means to deal with issues within a marriage. (when they arise)

 

Some chat about it

Some divorce right away

Some choose alcohol or drugs (in my opinion no different & just as bad as the affair)

 

Some choose to be counciled by a friend of the opposite sex - which sometimes turns into an affair............etc.etc.etc.etc

[Fugu]

BS is partial to blame for the problems and issue within the marriage, NOT the affair. There is no reason for them to accept blame for something they didn't do or for the lies and deciet that go with it.

 

I would agree with this 100 percent, which is why I almost always point out to confessed wanderers that the first thing they have to do is to end the affair pronto, and to accept criticism for it. However, I also point out to their critics - the ones who bash BS on LS - that it's important for both people to examine the chain of events that led up to that. However justified someone might be in their anger over an affair, it is important to calm down and find out what prompted their partner to split. Doesn't mean they have to agree with it, but it means that they should at least listen.

 

Of course the problem here is that there are trust issues and emotional volatility that come with cheating. It's also hard to be objective in this situation. That's why counseling should be strongly considered by both parties. A counselor isn't just a mental health healer; it's an objective third party who holds up the mirror without really taking sides or passing judgment. That's what a couple really needs in that situation. Getting family and friends involved at that point is a disaster waiting to happen. Counseling is the way to go, or it's off to divorce court.

[LilyBart]

So very true, BNB.

DM, I have seen so many times since I have been here, where an OW or OM thinks that their affair partner has fond memories of the affair. That is just not true for me. When I think back to that time it just makes me feel sick about what I did. I feel nothing but horror that I caused my wife so much pain and showed my children such a bad example! And I doubt it is very much different for a lot of wandering spouses.

 

And Tami and Lily... thanks for completely backing up my statement! You proved my point.

 

I wasn't necessarily referring to "fond memories" but just the sheer fact that this OW is apparently still a PRESENCE in your life - considering it is a topic that you mention over and over again (in various different formats).

 

I just don't think it's very healthy to give that much mental real estate to someone (supposedly) long gone in the past.

 

Whatever you insist, to an anonymous third party internet stranger - it looks like you haven't gotten over it. If you truly were, it wouldn't be a topic of discussion FOR YOU.

 

Sometimes the indifference is not an option when the AP does not go away or goes after the BS or children. The bunny boiler. Not saying that is the case for all or even a majority, but some people have had that experience. From Thomas previous post..that was his experience. It is kind of hard to speak kindly of a person who goes after your family. There are a couple of other sites where the AP has stalked the BS (and BS have stalked AP). It is a very real situation for some and it has nothing to do with the happiness of the marriage,but of the need to protect family from non-family.

 

Alrighty then. Since the A for like, TWENTY YEARS AGO, am I to assume that the OW is STILL stalking/bunny boiling Thomas/family?

 

Somehow, I doubt this. If that was the case, wouldn't the police be involved and the OW arrested? Or at least slapped with a restraining order?

 

This OW (20 years in the past!) has probably gone on and lived a full life for herself, with Thomas being just a blip on the radar on the screen of her past.

[LilyBart]

His story was that the OW was now harassing the family. He isn't the only one who should let it go(been there done that).

 

Like I said, if the harassment is really is still going on - it should be handled legally. I'm sure after 20 years, with all the "proof" collected any judge would be willing to grant a restraining order.

[donnamaybe]

Just because someone has had an A eons ago and still discusses it doesn't mean they "aren't over it." There are many people on LS who voice their opinions about A's. Obviously, since there is no A history, there is nothing they "aren't over."

[bentnotbroken]

Yes, BUT everyone chooses different means to deal with issues within a marriage. (when they arise)

 

Some chat about it

Some divorce right away

Some choose alcohol or drugs (in my opinion no different & just as bad as the affair)

 

Some choose to be counciled by a friend of the opposite sex - which sometimes turns into an affair............etc.etc.etc.etc

 

 

We completely agree there are things that are as destructive to marriage as infidelity...but I don't understand your point^^^^. Choosing an affair (no matter it's origins) is still the choice of one person. If it were by consensus then there would be no need for the lying and secrecy.

 

Fugu said,

I would agree with this 100 percent, which is why I almost always point out to confessed wanderers that the first thing they have to do is to end the affair pronto, and to accept criticism for it. However, I also point out to their critics - the ones who bash BS on LS - that it's important for both people to examine the chain of events that led up to that. However justified someone might be in their anger over an affair, it is important to calm down and find out what prompted their partner to split. Doesn't mean they have to agree with it, but it means that they should at least listen.

 

Of course the problem here is that there are trust issues and emotional volatility that come with cheating. It's also hard to be objective in this situation. That's why counseling should be strongly considered by both parties. A counselor isn't just a mental health healer; it's an objective third party who holds up the mirror without really taking sides or passing judgment. That's what a couple really needs in that situation. Getting family and friends involved at that point is a disaster waiting to happen. Counseling is the way to go, or it's off to divorce court.

 

I agree with everything you say except the family and friends part. I think if the support a BS can receive from those sources can counter act the gas lighting of the WS and sometimes the AP...I am all for it. For me the disaster waiting to happen never materialized and I would think for those who cannot afford professional counseling, this will be their life line.