How we treat cheaters on this board

[What_Next]

A BS will always think/say that when a WS tells the story of what happened that lead up to the affair.....We're justifying. We're really not. We're merely telling how & what happened.

 

More sweeping generalizations.

 

I have listened to countless WS tell their story, and some of them yes I feel as though they are attempting to justify their choice to have the affair. Many also attempt to re-write their marital history.

 

However, some clearly do not. Some simply state the facts of the situation.

 

The one clear behavior pattern that I have seen in almost (yes almost) all cases is selfishness.

 

If I were to turn my attention to your case CIK I would say there is a bit of both, stating the facts AND justifying your actions. That is of little consequence to me as I am fortunate enough not to be married to you (as I am sure you would say of me ). It is your often smug attitude (just my interpretation) about your affair that rubs many of us the wrong way. You almost seem proud to have had an affair and for many; even those who have not had the pain of an affair inflicted upon them this will most definitely raise their emotions.

 

In either case, I still stick by my original thought process whereby I will give any and all WS a dose of reality if I think the poster deserves it. If others don't like it, then so be it.

 

The bottom line is that cheating cannot be justified. There are always options and it is up to the person in question to chose them or live with the consequences.

Edited May 17, 2011 by What_Next

[nyrias]

More sweeping generalizations.

 

The one clear behavior pattern that I have seen in almost (yes almost) all cases is selfishness.

 

 

While that is possibly true, who haven't been selfish once in a while?

 

There are all sorts of selfishness too.

 

Do you think those who abandon his spouse, and children are less selfish than those who have affairs?

 

Some of those who had affairs committed another betrayal by lying, but they still contribute to the finances of the family. Is that worse (or better) than those who did not lie, run away and refuse to pay a dime?

 

I don't think you need to look at WS to see selfishness. And before you say it .. this certainly is NOT an "justification" for being W. However, it is a general observation on human nature.

[donnamaybe]

While that is possibly true, who haven't been selfish once in a while?

 

There are all sorts of selfishness too.

Oh, sure, but MOST of the time the selfishness is there for all to see. In an A, the selfishness (the having of the A) is hidden, so no one is aware.

 

Go ahead. Have an A. Just let your spouse in on your "selfishness" so they can make choices about their own life.

[Snowflower]

Interesting conversation!

 

It's nice that things are pretty civil on this thread despite such a volatile topic.

 

What I think it all comes down to is this...are a WS explanations or reasons for an affair the same thing as a justification?

 

For some posters here explanations=justifications (or excuses).

 

For other posters here explanations are just that explanations. Not excuses or justifications for what happened but an explanation of the why's and how's the affair happened.

 

It just depends on your own perception of explanations vs. excuses.

[StoneCold]

what did I miss?

[donnamaybe]

For me, when the "explanation" includes making someone else partially culpable in the choice to cheat, it's an excuse, AKA justification, i.e. "I cheated because my wife/husband was partially responsible for the state of our M."

 

If the explanation goes something like this: "I was unhappy because I felt my wife/husband was making no effort while I was doing everything for our M, so I made the poor choice to have an A instead of addressing the issues," then I would call that an explanation.

[StoneCold]

oy...

 

are we still gripinjg about explanation vs justification?

 

Two easily confused but ultimately different things people.

[Snowflower]

For me, when the "explanation" includes making someone else partially culpable in the choice to cheat, it's an excuse, AKA justification, i.e. "I cheated because my wife/husband was partially responsible for the state of our M."

 

If the explanation goes something like this: "I was unhappy because I felt my wife/husband was making no effort while I was doing everything for our M, so I made the poor choice to have an A instead of addressing the issues," then I would call that an explanation.

 

I get the distinction and the second explanation is more palatable than the first, IMO.

 

However, many WS get royally ripped even if they offer an explanation like the 2nd one you wrote above.

 

My distinction was that for some people, there is no explanation as to why the WS cheated that will possibly make a difference.

 

It is up to the individual-we'll say individual betrayed spouse-because they are the ones who will have to decide what to do-if the WS's explanation is going to be enough.

[Snowflower]

oy...

 

are we still gripinjg about explanation vs justification?

 

Two easily confused but ultimately different things people.

 

Not griping.

 

Yes, they mean different things to different people.

[StoneCold]

I get the distinction and the second explanation is more palatable than the first, IMO.

 

However, many WS get royally ripped even if they offer an explanation like the 2nd one you wrote above.

 

My distinction was that for some people, there is no explanation as to why the WS cheated that will possibly make a difference.

 

It is up to the individual-we'll say individual betrayed spouse-because they are the ones who will have to decide what to do-if the WS's explanation is going to be enough.

 

Generally speaking people have biases and slants that are based on their own personal experiences...people hear what they want to hear and see what they want to see. When it comes to charged discussions like this people generally lose the ability to think straight especially if they beleive themselves to be on "the victim" end of things...they take it personally even though it has nothing to do with them and their own personal situation.

 

Thats why I backed off here....its like beating a dead horse both ways

Edited May 17, 2011 by StoneCold

[donnamaybe]

However, many WS get royally ripped even if they offer an explanation like the 2nd one you wrote above.

Well, that's a tad counterproductive, isn't it?

[Snowflower]

Well, that's a tad counterproductive, isn't it?

 

Absolutely it's counterproductive to rip into a cheating spouse who is trying to do the right things (finally). But it is a public forum and you (general you) will get all types of responses and reactions.

 

I think this is what to what the OP was referring. WS often get treated poorly on this board no matter what they do or say.

[Woggle]

While I do understand having an alcoholic spouse is not fun I still do not think that it makes cheating right. I used to come home to find my ex with her face buried in cocaine like she was scarface yet I still never cheated. In fact I still was blame for her cheating. Besides maybe working a little hard to build a better life for us I can't think of anything that would excuse her not only from cheating but doing it with countless who she would go on the boardwalk and randomly take home while I was at work. I'm luckily she never gave me a disease but I guess there was an upside to her cutting me off during that time.

 

Can anybody explain how any of that is excusable?

[StoneCold]

Can anybody explain how any of that is excusable?

 

I didnt know the discussion was ever about what is excuseable and whats not

[Snowflower]

While I do understand having an alcoholic spouse is not fun I still do not think that it makes cheating right. I used to come home to find my ex with her face buried in cocaine like she was scarface yet I still never cheated. In fact I still was blame for her cheating. Besides maybe working a little hard to build a better life for us I can't think of anything that would excuse her not only from cheating but doing it with countless who she would go on the boardwalk and randomly take home while I was at work. I'm luckily she never gave me a disease but I guess there was an upside to her cutting me off during that time.

 

Can anybody explain how any of that is excusable?

 

Well Woggle, that was up to you if it was excusable. It's not up to anyone here on this forum or in IRL to decide that for you.

 

You determine what type of an explanation would be valid.

[nyrias]

Oh, sure, but MOST of the time the selfishness is there for all to see. In an A, the selfishness (the having of the A) is hidden, so no one is aware.

 

Go ahead. Have an A. Just let your spouse in on your "selfishness" so they can make choices about their own life.

 

This is exactly the kind of knee-jerk, emotional response that is counter-productive.

 

How did a general observation on human selfish-ness (and read very carefully what i wrote .. i did not excuse any kind of selfish-ness) generate a response that challenge me to have a A and destroy my life?

 

This is evidence to me that some are here just to rant and would slam on any post that does not in every sentence condemn cheating behavior to a death sentence.

 

If you have that much anger, get professional help (and not just for your marriage).

[StoneCold]

This is evidence to me that some are here just to rant and would slam on any post that does not in every sentence condemn cheating behavior to a death sentence.

 

If you have that much anger, get professional help (and not just for your marriage).

 

What he said.

 

 

As I said they will see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear

[donnamaybe]

This is exactly the kind of knee-jerk, emotional response that is counter-productive.

 

How did a general observation on human selfish-ness (and read very carefully what i wrote .. i did not excuse any kind of selfish-ness) generate a response that challenge me to have a A and destroy my life?

 

This is evidence to me that some are here just to rant and would slam on any post that does not in every sentence condemn cheating behavior to a death sentence.

 

If you have that much anger, get professional help (and not just for your marriage).

Ha ha ha! Not YOU in the sense of you personally. I mean you as in someone bent on cheating. I was certainly not referring to you yourself.

 

I'm fine, thanks. Sorry you misunderstood me.

[StoneCold]

Ha ha ha! Not YOU in the sense of you personally. I mean you as in someone bent on cheating. I was certainly not referring to you yourself.

 

I'm fine, thanks. Sorry you misunderstood me.

 

His point about the knee jerk reactions around here still stands

[JaneyAmazed]

I'm seeing a common theme where someone comes here to ask for advice, they are the WS, and they get put through the ringer. I know many of us are hurting here, but this board isn't just for the BS. None of us are perfect individuals. I've been slowly acknowledging my own contributions to the demise of my marriage which assisted in my WH's infidelity. As much as we'd like to think it was all about the infidelity, it is much more than that.

 

Infidelity hurts both parties, the BS and the WS. This is a very hard time for everyone involved. If the WS comes here asking how to save their marriage, rather than putting them down, we should be helping them repair their marriage by sharing our experiences and feelings.

 

I know for many of us the feelings are raw and it is difficult, but the WS OPs are not YOUR WS so we should not take our anger out on them. I'm sure it is especially hard for some of us here where our WS did/does not return or show remorse. These aren't the WS we generally see on this board. Just like the compassion we show to BS, we should be showing it to the WS, too.

 

Everyone involved in infidelity is hurting. Attempting to punish/flame WS's here is not constructive. It feeds into the anger/pain we are feeling which is self destructive and not healing. I'm sure I'm not going to win many friends here by this post, but this board is to discuss infidelity, support each other, and provide constructive feedback not to break people down. Everyone is just trying to get through this the best they can.

 

 

Well said. Oprah said last week that when she met with some women prisoners who killed their own children, they told her they thought she would be angry with them. They didn't understand her compassion. She said that she told them, "pain is pain." As a fWS I have felt the worst pain in my life. I am thankful for the people who have showed compassion and have been supportive. People do desperate, stupid things when the pain is so strong you can't see past it. The last thing a WS who is remorseful and needs help is more condemnation. People don't seem to understand we beat ourselves up enough without their help throwing punches. I'm glad that I can see things more clearly now. Don't listen to people who condemn. Listen to those who really want you to thrive and survive. Listen to those who want to help you when you reach out for help.

[tami-chan]

Then get a divorce. Easy, peasy.

 

:lmao:This. Easy peasy, huh? No wonder you had an affair...or hmm...maybe, just maybe..somebody is actually a BS pretending to be a WS so he can have "license" to slam WS/APs. :rolleyes:

 

Tripped again...!

[Woggle]

What about compassion and sympathy for the innocent people hurt by these lies and deceptions or the families torn apart by it?

[tami-chan]

What about compassion and sympathy for the innocent people hurt by these lies and deceptions or the families torn apart by it?

 

It goes without saying...BUT...seriously, why would your life stop or be destroyed by one person's betrayal of a vow that includes a future that nobody knows about? People have to stop looking at other people as their reason for being, for living or for whatever it is.

[JaneyAmazed]

What about compassion and sympathy for the innocent people hurt by these lies and deceptions or the families torn apart by it?

 

 

Hopefully compassion would be provided for innocent people hurt by lies and deception as well.

[Mme. Chaucer]

People make all kinds of mistakes and cause horrible pain and hurt to others ... all the time. I have done my own share. Still, I must say that no husband or wife is in ANY WAY responsible for his or her spouse's choice to screw around outside of the marriage. Yes indeed, both parties almost always hold partial responsibility for the demise of a marriage. How that demise is dealt with is the sole choice of each individual.

 

It bothers and yes, offends me when I read or hear someone claiming that a BS is somehow, in some way responsible for the wandering of the spouse.

 

Certainly we can relate to how a person in a dilapidated mess of a marriage with a nightmarish spouse could be sorely tempted and ripe to stray - and even sympathize or empathize with them when they do. But still - it's ALL ON THEM.

And it is going to be all on them to figure out how to resolve that mess.

 

I know "just get a divorce" rather than cheat is much easier said than done, and we humans are weak creatures who are often prone to take the softer, easier way. We are lured by temptation when we are in a bad place. I am too. I still won't ever condone or coddle a married person who chooses to stray, or a person who chooses to mess with a married person, myself. I respect those boundaries vigilantly.