How we treat cheaters on this board

[Woggle]

It goes without saying...BUT...seriously, why would your life stop or be destroyed by one person's betrayal of a vow that includes a future that nobody knows about? People have to stop looking at other people as their reason for being, for living or for whatever it is.

 

Betrayal hurts and what about kids from these marriages. I see people long into adulthood who still have scars from witnessing their parents do this to each other.

[donnamaybe]

His point about the knee jerk reactions around here still stands

 

I think that poster doesn't't need you to speak for them

[donnamaybe]

Well said. Oprah said last week that when she met with some women prisoners who killed their own children, they told her they thought she would be angry with them. They didn't understand her compassion. She said that she told them, "pain is pain." As a fWS I have felt the worst pain in my life. I am thankful for the people who have showed compassion and have been supportive. People do desperate, stupid things when the pain is so strong you can't see past it. The last thing a WS who is remorseful and needs help is more condemnation. People don't seem to understand we beat ourselves up enough without their help throwing punches. I'm glad that I can see things more clearly now. Don't listen to people who condemn. Listen to those who really want you to thrive and survive. Listen to those who want to help you when you reach out for help.

 

and I was one of those supportive people.

[bentnotbroken]

Betrayal hurts and what about kids from these marriages. I see people long into adulthood who still have scars from witnessing their parents do this to each other.

 

 

Woggle, a number of people don't believe in marriage being a lifetime commitment. Even if it does not include abuse like your former marriage or the one I was in. A lot of people believe in "till I am pissed off, resentful enough to cheat or someone richer and better looking comes along". It is a fact of the times. *sigh*

[JaneyAmazed]

and I was one of those supportive people.

 

Yes you were! Your posts gave me hope. You were the one that said "Keep your eye on the prize." You don't know how much that has helped me.

[What_Next]

Welcome back Janey, I am happy to see you are still hanging on and apparently doing well.

 

You know I was one of those who took you to task when I thought it necessary, I was even quite harsh when I also thought it necessary. The bottom line was you needed tough love. You didn't need to be coddled and told your actions were acceptable.

 

You also are one of those rare cheaters that actually confessed and got out in front of what you had done. That alone sets you apart from most.

 

Compassion is one thing, acceptance of unjustifiable behavior is quite another.

[StoneCold]

I think that poster doesn't't need you to speak for them

 

 

....Dead to rights eh?

[John Michael Kane]

Gosh the numerous attempts to justify sick, selfish narcissistic behavior! Too bad He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named will be closing down this thread in a little while.

 

Look if you have an alcoholic spouse and you honestly tried everything to help them get themselves clean, and they don't want to, then get out of the marriage. Don't use your spouse's problems to create more problems and then say it's all their fault. That's just stupid and all of you know it. If your spouse is smoking too much weed or cancer sticks:laugh: and won't quit, separate for a while to see if they'll get themselves into rehab or something. If they don't simply divorce and walk away with your head high, knowing you tried all you could. We're grown ass adults here (hopefully most of us here are). Own your poor choices to the max and stop trying to place blame on your spouse, who didn't even know you were cheating for 2 years.

[JaneyAmazed]

Welcome back Janey, I am happy to see you are still hanging on and apparently doing well.

 

You know I was one of those who took you to task when I thought it necessary, I was even quite harsh when I also thought it necessary. The bottom line was you needed tough love. You didn't need to be coddled and told your actions were acceptable.

 

You also are one of those rare cheaters that actually confessed and got out in front of what you had done. That alone sets you apart from most.

 

Compassion is one thing, acceptance of unjustifiable behavior is quite another.

 

This is true. When I thought I was the worst person in the world, people reached out to me and told me I am not defined by my actions and I that I do have the power to change. I needed compassion but, like you said, I did not need anyone to accept unjustifiable behavior. I think that's one reason I didn't come here before I ended the affair. I KNEW what I was doing was wrong and didn't want to hear it from anyone else. What next, you have helped a lot and I appreciate it. It was tough hearing the harsh words from others who believe once a cheater, always a cheater, but I never believed that. Deep down in my soul I knew I would not always cheat. I knew that I had learned a hard lesson.

[donnamaybe]

 

....Dead to rights eh?

Hmmm.... Let's see what someone this thread is actually about has to say about my posting style:

 

Well said. Oprah said last week that when she met with some women prisoners who killed their own children, they told her they thought she would be angry with them. They didn't understand her compassion. She said that she told them, "pain is pain." As a fWS I have felt the worst pain in my life. I am thankful for the people who have showed compassion and have been supportive. People do desperate, stupid things when the pain is so strong you can't see past it. The last thing a WS who is remorseful and needs help is more condemnation. People don't seem to understand we beat ourselves up enough without their help throwing punches. I'm glad that I can see things more clearly now. Don't listen to people who condemn. Listen to those who really want you to thrive and survive. Listen to those who want to help you when you reach out for help.

 

and I was one of those supportive people.

Yes you were! Your posts gave me hope. You were the one that said "Keep your eye on the prize." You don't know how much that has helped me.

 

By the way, JA, I'm glad I was helpful to you during the time you needed it most. I hope your M progresses to better than it's ever been!

[confusedinkansas]

Look if you have an alcoholic spouse and you honestly tried everything to help them get themselves clean, and they don't want to, then get out of the marriage. Don't use your spouse's problems to create more problems and then say it's all their fault.

 

This is AWESOME advice............Although, Hind Site for most of us.

 

And not as easy as you say. This is another thing here in LS that amazes me.

Just get a F'n divorce...........Seriously? As If it were THAT EASY.

This advice flies around & is given so flippantly - Just amazes me.

 

 

I'm not sure who you're referring to - but I haven't read anyone that's posted that it's ALL THEIR (spouses) FAULT.

I've always said that they play a role. (Way different than ALL THEIR FAULT) It's never ALL someone's fault but your own when something like this happens.

[bentnotbroken]

This is AWESOME advice............Although, Hind Site for most of us.

 

And not as easy as you say. This is another thing here in LS that amazes me.

Just get a F'n divorce...........Seriously? As If it were THAT EASY.

This advice flies around & is given so flippantly - Just amazes me.

 

 

I'm not sure who you're referring to - but I haven't read anyone that's posted that it's ALL THEIR (spouses) FAULT.

I've always said that they play a role. (Way different than ALL THEIR FAULT) It's never ALL someone's fault but your own when something like this happens.

 

 

It isn't easy to get a divorce at all. But it is easy to make the decision instead of holding someone hostage. If people aren't happy, decide that it is a difficult situation that does not deserve to get worse by adding affair and lying. Divorce-easy, no! But when the alternative it to deceive it is easier than adding to the mess.

[betterdeal]

Ok, unless the the cop somehow was related to you emotionally and/or physically

 

He was in that he physically threatened to run my car off the road if I didn't comply with his demands. This made me feel emotionally bullied.

 

the analogy is a bit off....

 

It's different, granted.

 

but I understand what you are trying to say....you were just letting off steam...thomasB was not letting off steam....somebody claimed his affair was 20+ years ago...if that is true...my gosh, that's a long time of letting off steam!!!! Somebody needs to just let it go!

 

And being or fear of being shouted down / judged / ridiculed obviously hasn't helped him let go yet, has it? In any case, my point is that letting off steam in a safe environment might help some people progress, let go, move on, deal with it and such like. It can be a step in the process of letting go, that's all.

 

Its not what we are shouting about that matters - it is the act of shouting and the pain being acknowledged by others that often helps us to move on.

[freestyle]

Its not what we are shouting about that matters - it is the act of shouting and the pain being acknowledged by others that often helps us to move on.

 

 

Very well said.....

[LifesontheUp]

This is AWESOME advice............Although, Hind Site for most of us.

 

And not as easy as you say. This is another thing here in LS that amazes me.

Just get a F'n divorce...........Seriously? As If it were THAT EASY.

This advice flies around & is given so flippantly - Just amazes me.

 

 

I'm not sure who you're referring to - but I haven't read anyone that's posted that it's ALL THEIR (spouses) FAULT.

I've always said that they play a role. (Way different than ALL THEIR FAULT) It's never ALL someone's fault but your own when something like this happens.

 

You've only got to look at the divorce rate to see how "popular" it is to do it. So yeah, why not get a divorce rather than lie and cheat? Or god forbid be honest with your spouse and tell them you have feelings for another and are likely going to act on them.

[confusedinkansas]

You've only got to look at the divorce rate to see how "popular" it is to do it. So yeah, why not get a divorce rather than lie and cheat? Or god forbid be honest with your spouse and tell them you have feelings for another and are likely going to act on them.

Yes & god forbid any of us try to explain to our spouses how unhappy we are.

Or how dare we try to fix what they don't think is broken

How dare we think that our marriage is anything but perfect.

See what I"m saying.

 

Many of us did try to explain things. We also tred water for a very long time before the affair happened. I know I'm not the only one here that tried countless times.

Divorce really wasn't an option (Before you all tell me it is always an option -please don't. In my case it really wasn't)

 

The affair never should have happened - but it did.

He should have never done the things he did either - but he did.

 

Can't change what's happened in the past.

Can only look forward to the future. Right?:)

[nyrias]

You've only got to look at the divorce rate to see how "popular" it is to do it. So yeah, why not get a divorce rather than lie and cheat? Or god forbid be honest with your spouse and tell them you have feelings for another and are likely going to act on them.

 

Well, even with the high divorce rate, to be fair, it is costly and takes effort.

 

However, no one says one cannot declare to the other spouse that the marital relationship is over, and getting the divorce is just a formality.

 

It is of course better to make it official to sign the dotted line on divorce paper, however, i believe a declaration (and also possibility a separation) is good enough in my eyes.

 

There is no more cheating if you let the other person know where you stand.

[jthorne]

This is AWESOME advice............Although, Hind Site for most of us.

 

And not as easy as you say. This is another thing here in LS that amazes me.

Just get a F'n divorce...........Seriously? As If it were THAT EASY.

This advice flies around & is given so flippantly - Just amazes me.

This seems a bit self-serving, IMO. After all, it takes quite a bit of effort to lie and sneak around to deceive your partner. The planning and all that, as you well know, isn't exactly easy either.

 

It just depends upon what one wants to put their effort in, I guess.

 

And who said it required a divorce to tell your partner you intend to screw around on them, just in case they might want to do it themselves, or make other plans?

[LifesontheUp]

Yes & god forbid any of us try to explain to our spouses how unhappy we are.

Or how dare we try to fix what they don't think is broken

How dare we think that our marriage is anything but perfect.

See what I"m saying.

 

Many of us did try to explain things. We also tred water for a very long time before the affair happened. I know I'm not the only one here that tried countless times.

Divorce really wasn't an option (Before you all tell me it is always an option -please don't. In my case it really wasn't)

 

The affair never should have happened - but it did.

He should have never done the things he did either - but he did.

 

Can't change what's happened in the past.

Can only look forward to the future. Right?:)

 

But did you actually say to him "I have feelings for someone else and am likely to have sex with them" unless you sit up and listen. To me that gets the attention. I often wonder when a WS say things like "I tried to explain how things in the marriage weren't right etc etc", how honest and open they actually were.

 

With regards to the divorce bit, I was just making a point that the figures actually show how many are getting divorced these days - therefore, it isn't something that doesn't and can't happen. I've only got to look at the small section I work on in work and 8 out of the 12 people have been divorced.

 

And yes, you should look forward as long as the issues that led you to an affair have been dealt with, otherwise you are merely storing up trouble for the future.

[nyrias]

This seems a bit self-serving, IMO. After all, it takes quite a bit of effort to lie and sneak around to deceive your partner. The planning and all that, as you well know, isn't exactly easy either.

 

It just depends upon what one wants to put their effort in, I guess.

 

And who said it required a divorce to tell your partner you intend to screw around on them, just in case they might want to do it themselves, or make other plans?

 

That is the key point. An official divorce is just a red herring.

 

As long as one told the spouse that they intend to pursue other people, and they don't treat him/her as a spouse anymore, it is as effective as a divorce, minus the legal consequences.

[LifesontheUp]

Well, even with the high divorce rate, to be fair, it is costly and takes effort.

 

However, no one says one cannot declare to the other spouse that the marital relationship is over, and getting the divorce is just a formality.

 

It is of course better to make it official to sign the dotted line on divorce paper, however, i believe a declaration (and also possibility a separation) is good enough in my eyes.

 

There is no more cheating if you let the other person know where you stand.

 

Personally I prefer the open and honest route i.e. telling your spouse that you have feelings for someone else. That way all parties are aware of what is going on and can make a decision on what they want.

[LifesontheUp]

That is the key point. An official divorce is just a red herring.

 

As long as one told the spouse that they intend to pursue other people, and they don't treat him/her as a spouse anymore, it is as effective as a divorce, minus the legal consequences.

 

Its not a red herring, in some cases divorce is what should and does happen when the affair is found out. So why not be open and honest and do it at the start before the sneaking and lieing occurs.

[nyrias]

Personally I prefer the open and honest route i.e. telling your spouse that you have feelings for someone else. That way all parties are aware of what is going on and can make a decision on what they want.

 

Sure. However, from a strict moral stand-point, i believe that a declaration of "i am no longer exclusively for you" is enough.

 

The principle here is that a person has NO OBLIGATION to disclosure anything to another person, aside from his wife because of the marriage contract or a promise of being truthful. Once that relationship is dissolved, there is no need to provide full information anymore.

 

He, in addition, has no obligation to help the ex-spouse to make the best decision.

 

Of course it is NOT saying that he cannot be nice and provide that information anyway. However, i don't think he *needs* to and i can think of circumstances that it may be counterproductive (for example, litigation is involved, or the ex-spouse may harass the new person).

[betterdeal]

Personally I prefer the open and honest route i.e. telling your spouse that you have feelings for someone else. That way all parties are aware of what is going on and can make a decision on what they want.

 

Probably best to connect with someone who shares your values in that case.

[nyrias]

Probably best to connect with someone who shares your values in that case.

 

The problem is to identify such a person. While everyone claims that they are honest & open, statistics show that MOST people would cheat if they can.

 

I don't think it is that easy to find such a person.