How we treat cheaters on this board

[donnamaybe]

The problem is to identify such a person. While everyone claims that they are honest & open, statistics show that MOST people would cheat if they can.

 

I don't think it is that easy to find such a person.

If statistics show most people would cheat if they can, you'd think it would be EASY to find someone who wants an open relationship.

 

Maybe they want it both ways; they want to cheat BUT they want their spouse to NOT cheat.

[betterdeal]

The problem is to identify such a person. While everyone claims that they are honest & open, statistics show that MOST people would cheat if they can.

 

I don't think it is that easy to find such a person.

 

True, that's why taking the long, gentle road helps. You find out the rhythms, nuances, inclinations someone has the more time you spend with them. Not just with respect to you, but with respect to others and the world at large. Part of that is how you and they negotiate, grow, learn, change and whether that works for you.

 

I know couples who will have sex with others from time to time. Neither approves, but neither spends much energy worrying about it. Other than pregnancy and infection - both of which can be avoided - their main concerns are loss of face or public humiliation and, of course, being let down emotionally, financially, sexually, sensually, spiritually &c. So as long as they don't sh*t in their own nest, it works for them.

 

It's not so much what you do with other people but what you do with me that concerns most people.

[nyrias]

If statistics show most people would cheat if they can, you'd think it would be EASY to find someone who wants an open relationship.

 

Maybe they want it both ways; they want to cheat BUT they want their spouse to NOT cheat.

 

I think it is because of social stigma. Open marriage is not a very socially acceptable convention. Just like divorce rate was really low decades ago, not because there is a lack of problems & infidelity.

 

Lastly, what you say has some truth to it too. Evolutionarily speaking, we do want our mate to be faithful to preserve our genes, but we don't have to do the same.

 

In fact, the ability to lie probably is evolved with this purpose as one of the primary drivers.

[John Michael Kane]

This is AWESOME advice............Although, Hind Site for most of us.

 

And not as easy as you say. This is another thing here in LS that amazes me.

 

So cheating is the correct way.

 

Just get a F'n divorce...........Seriously? As If it were THAT EASY.

 

Please stop using the excuse "not that easy" to justify being lazy to initiate the divorce process and cheating.

 

This advice flies around & is given so flippantly - Just amazes me.

 

And the same goes for cheaters and the "advice" they hand out.

 

I'm not sure who you're referring to - but I haven't read anyone that's posted that it's ALL THEIR (spouses) FAULT.

 

I'm referring to all those including you. Especially you.

 

I've always said that they play a role. (Way different than ALL THEIR FAULT)

 

Same difference.

 

It's never ALL someone's fault but your own when something like this happens.

 

Yet you keep saying the BS is somehow responsible for a cheater's decision to cheat.

[confusedinkansas]

So cheating is the correct way.

I've never said it was the correct way to handle things.

 

Please stop using the excuse "not that easy" to justify being lazy to initiate the divorce process and cheating.

 

The please stop assuming you know my exact situation. BTW - has nothing to do with being lazy.

 

I'm referring to all those including you. Especially you.

 

Yet you keep saying the BS is somehow responsible for a cheater's decision to cheat.

 

This is exactly what the OP is talking about. Why cheaters are treated as second class citizens. Doesn't matter if we cheated a 20 years ago or yesterday. Also doesn't matter if we come here with another issue outside the affair. We are all treated as if we should be burned at the stake like a witch hunt. (Thank goodness not by ALL BS's)

 

Nowhere have I said it was totally my husband's fault that I cheated.

Again, this is where assumptions start to fly around.

 

In case you haven't read my story - In a nutshell........He did not lose sleep. He did not crawl under a rock. He has not had a Woah Is Me attitude nor has he has not harbored any ill feelings towards me regarding the affair.

 

Once again. HE knows what role he played just as I know what role I played. There are BS's here that will & have said they played a role.......

[John Michael Kane]

I've never said it was the correct way to handle things.

 

Okay it's implied.

 

The please stop assuming you know my exact situation. BTW - has nothing to do with being lazy.

 

Yes it does. Cheating has to do with laziness also. "Oh divorce is so hard that it's not even an option. We have kids and so many bills to pay to make ends meet. Therefore, the only alternative is to find another man to relieve the stress of marital life.":rolleyes:

 

This is exactly what the OP is talking about. Why cheaters are treated as second class citizens.

 

Because cheaters treat themselves like second class citizens, and they treat their spouses even lower than any class of citizens.

 

Doesn't matter if we cheated a 20 years ago or yesterday.

 

Infidelity is a scar for life, and I'm pretty sure someone did actually cheat yesterday, and even right now as I type.

 

Also doesn't matter if we come here with another issue outside the affair.

 

Because the affair that one had just creates the problems the cheater is coming here to discuss about.

 

We are all treated as if we should be burned at the stake like a witch hunt. (Thank goodness not by ALL BS's)

 

If cheaters don't want to be "treated" like blacks were in the Civil Rights era, then don't treat the innocent spouses like that. They never deserved to live the rest of their lives with a nasty disease that could potentially kill them at any given moment. They never wanted another kid brought into their marriage that isn't theirs; hard-earned money coming out of their pockets to spend on a child that was made by their selfish spouse and a third party.

 

Nowhere have I said it was totally my husband's fault that I cheated.

Again, this is where assumptions start to fly around.

 

Yet you keep saying he partially contributed to your decision to cheat on him.

 

In case you haven't read my story - In a nutshell........He did not lose sleep. He did not crawl under a rock. He has not had a Woah Is Me attitude nor has he has not harbored any ill feelings towards me regarding the affair.

 

Now this ^^^^^^ is totally not only an assumption, but a disrespectful one at best. If you honestly think that man never sneaked an ugly look while your back was turned in the kitchen, while you were cooking up a nice dinner for the two of you, then you are sadly mistaken.

 

Once again. HE knows what role he played just as I know what role I played.

 

^^^^^

There you go again with that "he's partially responsible" stuff.

 

"HE" knows or is that something you tried to drill in his head? I'm sure he knows you pretty much lied to him and hurt his feelings without a care in the world.

 

There are BS's here that will & have said they played a role.......

 

Those who say that are clearly in denial, sucking up the lies and disrespect their cheating spouse feeds them.

[drifter777]

He did not lose sleep. He did not crawl under a rock. He has not had a Woah Is Me attitude nor has he has not harbored any ill feelings towards me regarding the affair.

 

Once again. HE knows what role he played just as I know what role I played. There are BS's here that will & have said they played a role.......

 

I understand that you and your husband were able to reconcile and you have truly survived infidelity with relative ease. Can you just accept that you are a minority case and that most people have a much more difficult time getting through this? All BS's are not like your husband. Losing sleep, being depressed, feeling anger and resentment toward your WS are all typical responses. Feeling devastated after d-day is not unusual, it's normal and the expected reaction. I think you have an important message for many people who visit LS in that you are a true example that marriage and people can survive infidelity. That message loses much of it's value by contrasting the typical, expected reaction of a BS to that of your husbands.

[whichwayisup]

Once again. HE knows what role he played just as I know what role I played. There are BS's here that will & have said they played a role.......

Yes, in the demise of the marriage, and problems/issues in a marriage. But no BS is going to take responsibility or even any blame for their spouse's choice to cheat.

[confusedinkansas]

Yes it does. Cheating has to do with laziness also. "Oh divorce is so hard that it's not even an option. We have kids and so many bills to pay to make ends meet. Therefore, the only alternative is to find another man to relieve the stress of marital life.":rolleyes:

Another assumption.

Now this ^^^^^^ is totally not only an assumption, but a disrespectful one at best. If you honestly think that man never sneaked an ugly look while your back was turned in the kitchen, while you were cooking up a nice dinner for the two of you, then you are sadly mistaken.

Assumption. You don't know my husband.

 

There you go again with that "he's partially responsible" stuff.

 

"HE" knows or is that something you tried to drill in his head? I'm sure he knows you pretty much lied to him and hurt his feelings without a care in the world.

He does know. You are going on ANOTHER assumption that we have NEVER talked about what happened over the course of about 2 years - or about what happened 5 years prior.

 

I understand that you and your husband were able to reconcile and you have truly survived infidelity with relative ease. Can you just accept that you are a minority case and that most people have a much more difficult time getting through this? All BS's are not like your husband. Losing sleep, being depressed, feeling anger and resentment toward your WS are all typical responses. Feeling devastated after d-day is not unusual, it's normal and the expected reaction. I think you have an important message for many people who visit LS in that you are a true example that marriage and people can survive infidelity. That message loses much of it's value by contrasting the typical, expected reaction of a BS to that of your husbands.

 

Oh, Drifter - I do know this.

 

What just chapps my Arss is when people like John ASSUME that I am like (our marriage is like) one of those people.

He goes on & on reading between the lines. Assumes many things & even interjects what he believes to be the truth.

 

YES we have more than survived. Which is why I come here to (NOT DEFEND) but try to help the WS realize that IT CAN WORK.....A marriage can be better than it was before an affair.....IT IS POSSIBLE.

[What_Next]

YES we have more than survived. Which is why I come here to (NOT DEFEND) but try to help the WS realize that IT CAN WORK.....A marriage can be better than it was before an affair.....IT IS POSSIBLE.

 

A marriage is terminated BY DEFINITION when there is an affair. Period. End of story.

 

Now whether or not a new relationship can be built out of the ashes of the old is entirely another question.

 

My marriage ended the day my wife chose to have her affair. It died right then and there. I was then damned fool enough to add fuel to a burning fire and further destroy our vows by getting revenge by sleeping with someone myself.

 

Now we have chosen to attempt to reconcile our relationship and build a new one. We are BOTH taking what we have learned by our previous failure and applying to this new relationship. The old marriage can never be, it just cannot. I will never again celebrate our 'wedding anniversary' or any other date associated with our previous marriage. I will however celebrate the many new dates and the many new memories we hopefully will forge together.

 

For the record I still ache over the fact that her affair happened, I am not now nor will I ever likely be grateful for it, or thankful for it. There were many many choices that she could have made and the one she made she'll have to live with, as will I.

 

You are speaking for your husband, you are speaking in absolutes for your husband. Make no mistake he does not forget what you chose to do. Unless he was dropped on his head or stumbled into a lobomty he will never forget. He has chosen to forgive and put it behind him, but it isn't erased from his memory. If you feel as though he has no bad feelings towards what you have done, then that is your own opinion. Before you state the obvious; of course I do not know your husband, nor do I know you personally and for that I am thankful

[John Michael Kane]

Another assumption.

 

Assumption. You don't know my husband.

 

Yea deflect the obvious by saying the typical you-know-nothing-about-my-situation phrase.

 

He does know. You are going on ANOTHER assumption that we have NEVER talked about what happened over the course of about 2 years - or about what happened 5 years prior.

 

You just said the man NEVER EVER showed any physical symptoms of pain from your infidelity. Now you're saying something completely different. Typical behavior.

 

 

 

Oh, Drifter - I do know this.

 

What just chapps my Arss is when people like John ASSUME that I am like (our marriage is like) one of those people.

He goes on & on reading between the lines. Assumes many things & even interjects what he believes to be the truth.

 

There's no assumptions. Only obvious facts.

 

YES we have more than survived. Which is why I come here to (NOT DEFEND) but try to help the WS realize that IT CAN WORK.....A marriage can be better than it was before an affair.....IT IS POSSIBLE.

 

Of course it's possible to stay, but what EVERYONE needs to realize is that it will never be the same again.

[seren]

As an XBS who has succesfully reconciled and has a healthier relationship despite my H's A I can categorically state that WE both contributed to our marriage going off track, HIS job (military) produced circumstances that sent him totally off the track BUT he was the person that chose to have an A rather than work it through with me. I take full responsibility for our marriage problems, absolutely none for the A. However, it was also OUR decision to rebuild a relationship that we are both committed to and are happy in.

 

A's happen, it is a sad and very hard fact of life, I was a it will never happen to me person, the A had certainly changed all that, I put the blame for hurting me on my H, but I also wish that AP would acknowledge that they were enablers too. For anyone who has decied to work on a relationship after an A takes hard work and committment, in fact, it has in some ways been harder for my H to accpet what he did than it has been for me. I just wish he would learn from it, of course never repeat it and then forgive himself. I dislike that he blames himself 100% for our marriage difficulties, but then part of the problem that saw him have an A was him not feeling he was good enough, not matter how and what I tell him.

 

I find how people are treated on this board is generally in proportion to how they treat others, of course there are some that are here just for sport, but they are easily identified and often ignored or just prodded every now and again.

[confusedinkansas]

Of course it's possible to stay, but what EVERYONE needs to realize is that it will never be the same again.

 

Yes & I thank God every single day for that.

[confusedinkansas]

 

You just said the man NEVER EVER showed any physical symptoms of pain from your infidelity. Now you're saying something completely different. Typical behavior.

.

 

I've never in my life seen anyone who could twist words around like you do.

 

Talking about things is what helps us to move on.

I'm not sure of the Physical Symptoms of pain you're speaking of. I don't think that a husband & wife having a conversation about their past behaviors is hardly Physical Symptoms Of Pain...........

 

We'll just disagree........You think the cheater deserves no forgiveness. I think there are still good people in this world that DO forgive.

[silktricks]

Yes & I thank God every single day for that.

 

And as a fBS, so do I.

[tami-chan]

Its not what we are shouting about that matters - it is the act of shouting and the pain being acknowledged by others that often helps us to move on.

 

Actually, it matters what you are shouting about because people respond/react to that. This is a forum. We respond to WHAT is being said.

 

Anyhow,if thomasB wants to be acknowledged that he is still in the process of healing (20+ years later) then he needs to be truthful about it. It is one major step towards healing, don't you think?

[thomasb]

Wow, I go on vacation for a few days and come back to Tami still harping on me. It really bugs you to think a MM regrets an affair, doesn't it! No I'm not still healing. Neither is my wife. She knows how powerful our love is. I come on here to help others heal. I hope I help them. I helped myself by coming clean to my wife and letting the Lord in my heart.

[JaneyAmazed]

Wow, I go on vacation for a few days and come back to Tami still harping on me. It really bugs you to think a MM regrets an affair, doesn't it! No I'm not still healing. Neither is my wife. She knows how powerful our love is. I come on here to help others heal. I hope I help them. I helped myself by coming clean to my wife and letting the Lord in my heart.

 

 

What a blessing. Keep posting...you are helping others heal.

[Silly_Girl]

Wow, I go on vacation for a few days and come back to Tami still harping on me. It really bugs you to think a MM regrets an affair, doesn't it! No I'm not still healing. Neither is my wife. She knows how powerful our love is. I come on here to help others heal. I hope I help them. I helped myself by coming clean to my wife and letting the Lord in my heart.

 

You did ask for advice not so long ago on gestures that would help demonstrate to your wife how grateful you are that she took you back. I hope she also asks for tips on how to show her gratitude to you, else your M seems - to an onlooker - still to be suffering. And I don't think that's right for either of you.

[donnamaybe]

You did ask for advice not so long ago on gestures that would help demonstrate to your wife how grateful you are that she took you back. I hope she also asks for tips on how to show her gratitude to you, else your M seems - to an onlooker - still to be suffering. And I don't think that's right for either of you.

So a guy wants to show his wife how lucky he is to have her, and it gets chalked up to the M still "suffering?"

 

I guess the next time my sweety or I do something nice for each other, it must be because our R is "suffering" somehow.

[freestyle]

So a guy wants to show his wife how lucky he is to have her, and it gets chalked up to the M still "suffering?"

I guess the next time my sweety or I do something nice for each other, it must be because our R is "suffering" somehow.

 

 

 

I don't see the logic, either.

 

 

This last page's worth of exchanges do demonstrate that a WS can hardly win for trying, doesn't it?

 

If a fWS has enough courage to post on a forum where he/she is likely to be dissected from every angle, ---and they still stick around to help others......

 

well, I have to tip my hat.

 

If a former gangbanger spends time working with troubled youth, and has been for years, in an effort to give back & make amends, do they deserve to be criticized and told they must "still have issues"?

[Woggle]

I don't see the logic, either.

 

 

This last page's worth of exchanges do demonstrate that a WS can hardly win for trying, doesn't it?

 

If a fWS has enough courage to post on a forum where he/she is likely to be dissected from every angle, ---and they still stick around to help others......

 

well, I have to tip my hat.

 

If a former gangbanger spends time working with troubled youth, and has been for years, in an effort to give back & make amends, do they deserve to be criticized and told they must "still have issues"?

 

This is an entirely different thing. If a person has genuinely changed than I saw give them a second chance but a person who is still doing wrong and shows little to no remorse about it gets the cold shoulder from me. It's like the difference between Robert Downey JR and Charlie Sheen. The former turned his life around while the latter is still a trainwreck.

[freestyle]

This is an entirely different thing. If a person has genuinely changed than I saw give them a second chance but a person who is still doing wrong and shows little to no remorse about it gets the cold shoulder from me. It's like the difference between Robert Downey JR and Charlie Sheen. The former turned his life around while the latter is still a trainwreck.

 

 

I do agree with you here, Wogs. If you read my post a few pages back, I made it clear that I have no time for an unremorseful WS.I won't waste my breath.

 

In the post you quoted, I was specifically talking about the way thomasb has been getting questioned as to his motives for posting. I put the "f" before "WS" for "former wayward spouse".

 

Hence the analogy I presented.

[Woggle]

I do agree with you here, Wogs. If you read my post a few pages back, I made it clear that I have no time for an unremorseful WS.I won't waste my breath.

 

In the post you quoted, I was specifically talking about the way thomasb has been getting questioned as to his motives for posting. I put the "f" before "WS" for "former wayward spouse".

 

Hence the analogy I presented.

 

I agree. I respect him and anne1707. I don't know if those are the right numbers but these two have shown genuine remorse and I will support them in becoming better people. The ones who are just crapping on people with no regard for anybody but themselves I have no use for.

[betterdeal]

Actually, it matters what you are shouting about because people respond/react to that. This is a forum. We respond to WHAT is being said.

 

Anyhow,if thomasB wants to be acknowledged that he is still in the process of healing (20+ years later) then he needs to be truthful about it. It is one major step towards healing, don't you think?

 

No, I don't think. Not in the sense that you or I know the truth let alone that we can tell him the truth. Truth in this sense is entirely subjective. Truths about the physical world are easy to agree on. Truths about our own personal reality are entirely, and necessarily, subjective.

 

What is more important to you - that he lives in the present and stops hurting and being hurt, or that what you determine is right is vindicated by external source i.e. him?