How we treat cheaters on this board

[donnamaybe]

If it doesn't matter, then she can't attribute any of the causation of the affair to her spouse.

It matters TO THE MARRIED PARTNERS. Not to you or I.

 

It helps if you don't parse out just the little pieces you feel you are able to refute without the original full context.

[What_Next]

Not that I need to come to anyone's defense but I do believe Janey is one of those few who are truly remorseful for her cheating. She DOES take responsibility for her own actions. That in my opinion is rare from WS.

 

If you laid it out to your husband like you said you did Janey and he didn't listen then that is also somewhat more rare.

 

I sure as hell wish my wife said what you appear to have said Janey. Then again WS often re-write marital history. Others are simply ____. Fill in your own blanks; I have.

[Memphis Raines]

I agree with this. Janey pretty much laid it out that cheating was on the horizon. It is exactly what BS' ask for.

 

 

yup, the cheater is the victim here.

[ladydesigner]

yup, the cheater is the victim here.

 

No I also do not believe the cheater is the victim, but a lot of BS say they would have liked to have known a lot of these thoughts before the A happened, myself included.

[bentnotbroken]

So what is the husband supposed to do here? Nowhere does janey indicate what she thought her husband was doing in the marriage that was somehow inadequate.

 

No, I don't think the BS wants to be threatened by an unhappy spouse with cheating, prior to the cheating. I think the BS wants to hear what specifically is bothering the WS that the BS can actually do something about.

 

Why was the marriage in trouble?

Why was she tempted to cheat?

Why was she unhappy?

Why wasn't she feeling close to him?

Why were OM hitting on her?

 

How did she determine that cheating was the solution to any of her marital problems?

 

This sounds like it's just a more subtle form of blame-shifting onto the betrayed spouse.

 

I haven't read anything Janey posted that shows what her husband did, or didn't do, that she thinks "caused" her to cheat.

 

 

Actually using the "I" statements are what MC encourage couples to do so that the other spouse does not feel attacked. I have not read this whole thread, but is it possible she used the word "I" because she was looking to explain her decisions instead of what she "perceived" to be wrong? In all honesty there will be times that one can't explain what the problem is. There may be a combination of things or nothing at all.

[Memphis Raines]

So what is the husband supposed to do here? Nowhere does janey indicate what she thought her husband was doing in the marriage that was somehow inadequate.

 

 

exactly

 

and where is her husband's side of the story. was Janey unhappy because of her H's behavior and her H's behavior a result of Janey possibly not being the best wife?

 

Like you said, there are alot of "I's" in her words. In assessing the state of the marriage, was her H's behavior solely to blame? Or was her H's behavior only part of the problem and she had a responsibility in it all before she decided to cheat?

 

No, I don't think the BS wants to be threatened by an unhappy spouse with cheating, prior to the cheating.

 

if someone threatened me like that, I'd open the door and ask them to walk through it.

 

maybe Janey made her H feel like she was blaming him. sure sounds that way based on recent posts.

 

 

I think the BS wants to hear what specifically is bothering the WS that the BS can actually do something about.

 

that coupled with the WS looking at their own behavior that contributes to the state of the marriage before the cheating took place.

 

2 people screwed up the marriage, but only one decided to get gratification elsewhere.

 

 

This sounds like it's just a more subtle form of blame-shifting onto the betrayed spouse.

 

and that was my point. I have read Janey's posts, and if ever I did decide to give a cheater a 2nd chance, it would be Janey's mentality that would warrant it. I believe she is bending over backwards to show her husband that she is willing to sacrifice whatever she has to do to make this up to him.

 

its just the slight backslide with the blame shifting that threw me a curve.

 

 

I haven't read anything Janey posted that shows what her husband did, or didn't do, that she thinks "caused" her to cheat.

 

or what Janey did to contribute to the poor state of the marriage prior to the cheating.

[Memphis Raines]

Maybe Janey TOLD her husband all that but doesn't want to get into it here. She brought her A here, aired that part of her life out for all to see, owned responsibility for it, and was looking for help getting her marriage back on track. What does it matter what went on in their M before the A?

 

I agree, what does it matter?

 

that being said, why does janey feel the need to make us believe that it was his fault. he didn't listen, even ladydesigner insinuated her H got what he deserved.

 

if what happened before the affair doesn't matter, why try to convince us her cheating happened "for a reason".

[Memphis Raines]

If it doesn't matter, then she can't attribute any of the causation of the affair to her spouse.

 

exactly. or is stating what happened before the affair only to be afforded to the WS?

[Silly_Girl]

It was a constructive thread. Why on earth does it have to degenerate in to attacks on one poster?

[dale_gribble]

I guess the real question is- Is cheating spouse allowed feel to pain? Sure they are, but their pain takes a back seat to the irreparable damage they have done. I find it a bit funny that now that they have had their "fill," they feel that they also are entitled to compassion- PLEASE! There is no measure to the damage they have done to their significant other. Right now YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO ANYTHING remotely associated to compassion. Let ME ask something- While You(cheater) were in the throes of so-called "passion" with OP, did YOU feel ANY ounce of compassion toward your spouse- I THINK NOT! That is why you get the short end of the stick when it comes to compassion. You reap what you sow- SO REAP IT!

[anne1707]

I guess the real question is- Is cheating spouse allowed feel to pain?

 

Allowed to feel pain? I did not know I had to seek permission to feel. But did I feel pain? Yes, very much so. I knew I was lying, deceiving, hurting others and I hated what I had become

 

Sure they are, but their pain takes a back seat to the irreparable damage they have done.

 

I knew that whatever I felt was nothing compared to how my H felt.

 

 

I find it a bit funny that now that they have had their "fill," they feel that they also are entitled to compassion- PLEASE! There is no measure to the damage they have done to their significant other.

 

I did not come to LS thinking I was entitled to compassion. I wanted/needed support and guidance but that to me is different. The pain I felt was nothing compared to how my H felt but I wanted to find my way and hopefully reconcile with my H hence coming to LS.

 

 

Right now YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO ANYTHING remotely associated to compassion.

 

And if the WS shows genuine remorse, would you still say that?

 

 

Let ME ask something- While You(cheater) were in the throes of so-called "passion" with OP, did YOU feel ANY ounce of compassion toward your spouse- I THINK NOT! That is why you get the short end of the stick when it comes to compassion. You reap what you sow- SO REAP IT!

 

Yes, I felt compassion. I felt guilt. I felt ashamed. But in turn I also recognise forgiveness which is one of the most powerful acts one can bestow on another.

[donnamaybe]

Yes it does matter to the married partners, but that's not what you said in your prior post. You said it doesn't matter what happened before the A.

 

I still don't see what Janey's h did that she actually considers having contributed to causing the affair. By the time she approached him about her perceived marital difficulties, she was already flirting with other men and contemplating having an affair. If she felt distant from her h, she's never explained why.

 

It is helpful to read for content AND context rather than merely searching for a phrase you might be able to argue against when taken completely out of context. :

[Woggle]

I am not knocking her but usually when a woman gets to that thinking of an affair point a man can move heaven and earth for her and she still would not be happy. I doubt there is anything whatsoever he could have done to prevent it.

[confusedinkansas]

It was a constructive thread. Why on earth does it have to degenerate in to attacks on one poster?

 

Look at the title of this thread

 

How We Treat Cheaters On This Board..............Prime Example.

 

Janey - what I've read just looks to me as typical BS (Bull*Hit)

Because posters here have said since the beginning of this forum that they only wish that their spouse would have told them they were unhappy & contemplating an affair YOU TOLD HIM!!! & See........the BS's here still aren't happy. It just is what it is here Silly....It's how cheaters are treated. Will be like this forever.

 

Some of us just suck it up & keep coming back because we KNOW that we have knowledge & can quite possibly help someone that's in the same position we found ourselves in.

[donnamaybe]

See........the BS's here still aren't happy.

Don't lump all of them together. MOST of them, especially the long time posters, have been VERY supportive of Janey.

[bentnotbroken]

Look at the title of this thread

 

How We Treat Cheaters On This Board..............Prime Example.

 

Janey - what I've read just looks to me as typical BS (Bull*Hit)

Because posters here have said since the beginning of this forum that they only wish that their spouse would have told them they were unhappy & contemplating an affair YOU TOLD HIM!!! & See........the BS's here still aren't happy. It just is what it is here Silly....It's how cheaters are treated. Will be like this forever.

 

Some of us just suck it up & keep coming back because we KNOW that we have knowledge & can quite possibly help someone that's in the same position we found ourselves in.

 

:confused:Really? So all BS get painted with the same broad brush that people who cheat don't want to be painted with?

[confusedinkansas]

:confused:Really? So all BS get painted with the same broad brush that people who cheat don't want to be painted with?

 

And so it begins..........Bent - Don't get so Bent.

 

I didn't mean ALL.....I completely forgot that I needed to clarify every single thing I type completely & totally so everyone understands.

 

My deepest apologies to anyone I offended. I did not mean ALL.

I was referring to those that kept pecking at Janey.

 

I know there are BS's out there that are helpful to those of us that have cheated. You are a rare find, you are kind, you help us to realize the hurt that people feel from the impact of infidelity, without bashing. To those of you that are like that & have helped me...........THANK YOU!!

[bentnotbroken]

And so it begins..........Bent - Don't get so Bent.

 

I didn't mean ALL.....I completely forgot that I needed to clarify every single thing I type completely & totally so everyone understands.

 

My deepest apologies to anyone I offended. I did not mean ALL.

I was referring to those that kept pecking at Janey.

 

I know there are BS's out there that are helpful to those of us that have cheated. You are a rare find, you are kind, you help us to realize the hurt that people feel from the impact of infidelity, without bashing. To those of you that are like that & have helped me...........THANK YOU!!

 

 

Just for the record....I am always bent....hence the name:p And yes I was offended because when you as an long term poster use the brush, then newer posters use the brush without even thinking of it. It is the same way posters who have cheated feel when a newbie comes on with their "fresh" attitudes and start with the "all the cheaters" posts. You don't like that.

[donnamaybe]

I didn't take anything out of context.

 

You seem to want to force others' opinions into a shape that you want, perhaps through a lack of understanding.

 

You also seem to want to dictate to others how they should read, interpret, and respond to posts. You are free to do that for yourself, but others are entitled to formulate their own responses.

Simply read what I write. We were discussing her TELLING US ON LS about what she said to her H, and you translated that into "it doesn't matter" as regards what goes on directly between them.

 

"...a lack of understanding." And the insults begin.

[bentnotbroken]

It would certainly provide useful insight into the situation if there was more information on what was perceived as deficient in the marriage, or in the betrayed spouses' behavior.

 

 

Sometimes it is hard to pinpoint the source of an issue especially if it is based on something from the past. I could be wrong, but it seems the deficiency may have been within herself. In a number of cases it has absolutely nothing to do with the behavior of the BS but what is happening(or not happening)within.

[donnamaybe]

Unfortunately for Janey, some people want to read as much ugliness into her situation as they possibly can in order to demonize a cheater. Very transparent, and I read that as more a deficiency on their part than hers.

[reboot]

Well said.

[donnamaybe]

And now folks are reading things into Janey's situation they cannot POSSIBLY know, but of course they are choosing to imagine it all in the most negative light possible which is actually proving the point of the original post of this thread.

 

Janey has made very clear her contrition over the A and is doing everything she can with her H to salvage their M, yet she's being dragged over the coals. There have been others who haven't shown such contrition and have, in fact, asked LS members if it's okay to remain friends with their AP. In those cases, I've been much less understanding. To me, there is a clear cut difference.

[silktricks]

Actually I totally agree with this, and that's the point, as in a lot of these situations. Except for someone to realize that, they have to go step by step and hopefully reach their own conclusion. It's difficult on a board like this to get there because there are so many "peanut gallery" type responses that interfere with a serious conversation.

 

But you're right, the indirect point I was trying to make is that there IS no stated reason for the affair deriving out of the marriage or the husband's overt actions. This implies that's it all something "inner" specific to the cheater.

 

However rather than simply assuming that's a correct interpretation, I asked for the clarification. Maybe there is something specific there--who knows?--alcoholism, abuse, not excuses for the affair, but perhaps part of the motivation--and if she doesn't want to talk about it, fine. The person has to be able to really look within to try to figure it out rather than looking outside themselves.

 

Knowing that Janey's father cheated on her mother for four years, this wasn't disclosed to her adulthood, they come from a religious background...it wouldn't be completely impossible that in marrying her husband, she probably chose someone a lot like her father, and her affair is some kind of delayed reaction or displacement as a result of finding out about her father's affair. She wasn't really cheating on her husband, she was getting back at her father. But then again maybe not.

 

Very thoughtful post.

 

First, I'd like to say to Janey that I as a former BS can see and appreciate the fact that you have been very remorseful about what you did in the past. Whether you were or were not "more" remorseful at first than you are now is moot, in my opinion, as attitudes change with time. No one can (or should IMO) stay in a pit of despair and self-loathing, which is pretty much where you were when you first came.

 

Most WS start out blaming their partner totally for what happened, then slowly move towards taking some of the responsibility upon themselves. You on the other hand, started out blaming yourself totally, and over time have come to realize that some responsibility for the situation in the marriage was your husbands. It doesn't seem to me that you have blamed him for the choices you made, though (that's good ).

 

But, (you saw that coming, right ) I'd like to say, as a former BS that saying to your spouse that you feel like cheating may or may not actually be offering insight into what is going on with you. Situations matter. Context matters. Tone matters. So when I've said in the past, "why didn't he talk to me?" I'm not saying that he didn't. Maybe he did. Probably he did. But what he didn't do is talk to me about the depth of the problem in a manner I could take in. That was his responsibility, and that was your responsibility, too. And that's the hard part. That's the putting yourself on the line and saying you are in more pain than you can bear. Getting back a response of "go read your Bible" instead of sitting and working with me, would probably have put me over the edge (not saying that is an excuse, now... ).

 

But, now, back to the original post. How DO we treat cheaters on this board? By and large, in my opinion, quite poorly. I, for one, appreciate those who are able to stick around and provide input. It's got to be pretty d*mn difficult, as they get beat up quite often. So, thank-you Anne, Janey and CIK (and any others I'm not remembering) for sticking with it here. You are appreciated by many of us.

Edited May 25, 2011 by silktricks

[What_Next]

But, now, back to the original post. How DO we treat cheaters on this board? By and large, in my opinion, quite poorly. I, for one, appreciate those who are able to stick around and provide input. It's got to be pretty d*mn difficult, as they get beat up quite often. So, thank-you Anne, Janey and CIK (and any others I'm not remembering) for sticking with it here. You are appreciated by many of us.

 

I don't agree. I think they receive what they deserve. Period. They need to develop a thick skin and defend themselves if they feel it necessary.

 

I also do appreciate those BS that do stick around and become involved with LS, especially those like Janey and Thomasb etc. CIK, my opinion on this person is well known. I'll leave it at that.