How we treat cheaters on this board

[StoneCold]

exactly, they are partly responsible for the success or failure of the relationship.

 

but not being cheated on.

 

 

Perhaps not.... but if you play a hand in a failed marriage...you cant expect much as a result either.

 

Its like playing with fire and then acting surprised when the whole farm burns down. Did you derserve to have the entire farm go up in flames? it might be a littler harsh...maybe burnt fingers would have been more fitting. But you should have known better to play with fire to begin with.

Edited June 10, 2011 by StoneCold

[Memphis Raines]

Perhaps not.... but if you play a hand in a failed marriage...you cant expect much as a result either.

 

then if a marriage is failing, why is usually only one of the spouses out cheating?

 

answer: the cheating spouse has a huge character flaw up and beyond that of either of them that had a hand to play in the relationship.

 

Just like my situation. I did everything in my power to do everything right in a marriage, but nobody is perfect. So I wasn't perfect, and my x-wife wasn't.

 

So why didn't I cheat?

[StoneCold]

then if a marriage is failing, why is usually only one of the spouses out cheating?

 

answer: the cheating spouse has a huge character flaw up and beyond that of either of them that had a hand to play in the relationship.

 

Just like my situation. I did everything in my power to do everything right in a marriage, but nobody is perfect. So I wasn't perfect, and my x-wife wasn't.

 

So why didn't I cheat?

 

Here we go again..... you are pitting one failure to another and trying to say one is the worse of the two. You are not qualified to make that conclusion for anyone else but yourself. I can just as easily say that the way you let your spouse down (however that is) is the result of a glaring character flaw as well; why? because theres always the other side of the story....others may see and interpret things different from you and there is no right or wrong interpretation...its simply the way they feel

 

You didnt cheat because thats YOUR limitation... I'm sure there ae things you have done that your X wouldnt have...because those are HER limitations.

 

Bear in mind there are many ways you could "cheat" your spouse. I'm sure in most failed relationships there is a whole hell of a lot of cheating going on on both sides and again I'm not just referring to the "popular interprtation" of cheating

Edited June 10, 2011 by StoneCold

[John Michael Kane]

Here we go again..... you are pitting one failure to another and trying to say one is the worse of the two. You are not qualified to make that conclusion for anyone else but yourself. I can just as easily say that the way you let your spouse down (however that is) is the result of a glaring character flaw as well; why? because theres always the other side of the story....others may see and interpret things different from you and there is no right or wrong interpretation...its simply the way they feel

 

You didnt cheat because thats YOUR limitation... I'm sure there ae things you have done that your X wouldnt have...because those are HER limitations.

 

Bear in mind there are many ways you could "cheat" your spouse. I'm sure in most failed relationships there is a whole hell of a lot of cheating going on on both sides and again I'm not just referring to the "popular interprtation" of cheating

 

It's nothing to do with limitation, man. When cheating is involved you're playing with people's lives.

[nyrias]

then if a marriage is failing, why is usually only one of the spouses out cheating?

 

Do you have statistics to back up the claim that "usually only one of the spouses out cheating"?

 

Furthermore, even if both spouses are "ready" to cheat, by definition, one will have to do it first. It is then POSSIBLE (but not always the case) that the other spouse just has not got around to it.

 

I make no claims about statistics, and certainly this is not a justification to cheat. However, I just don't buy into your claim that "usually only one of the spouses out cheating" without some evidence.

 

At this one site (http://www.infidelityfacts.com/infidelity-statistics.html) said that ~70% of people will cheat if they won't get caught. That indicates that MOST of us have the character flaw and are able to cheat. The only thing holding us back is the fear of consequences.

[John Michael Kane]

Do you have statistics to back up the claim that "usually only one of the spouses out cheating"?

 

Furthermore, even if both spouses are "ready" to cheat, by definition, one will have to do it first. It is then POSSIBLE (but not always the case) that the other spouse just has not got around to it.

 

I make no claims about statistics, and certainly this is not a justification to cheat. However, I just don't buy into your claim that "usually only one of the spouses out cheating" without some evidence.

 

At this one site (http://www.infidelityfacts.com/infidelity-statistics.html) said that ~70% of people will cheat if they won't get caught. That indicates that MOST of us have the character flaw and are able to cheat. The only thing holding us back is the fear of consequences.

 

Statistics are false. People will not cheat unless they want to, regardless of the situation.

[viennawaits]

then if a marriage is failing, why is usually only one of the spouses out cheating?

 

answer: the cheating spouse has a huge character flaw up and beyond that of either of them that had a hand to play in the relationship.

 

Just like my situation. I did everything in my power to do everything right in a marriage, but nobody is perfect. So I wasn't perfect, and my x-wife wasn't.

 

So why didn't I cheat?

 

My husband hasn't bothered to even try to have sex with me in about 10 years. Perhaps he just doesn't have the drive. Why would he seek it elsewhere? Is this a character flaw? If I told him about it, stated that it was a problem (before and after the A) and went to counseling to discuss it, doesn't that count for anything?

 

Look, I have never justified my actions, and why you think my posts are showing some sense of entitlement, I really don't understand. I, too, am not perfect. I don't blame my husband for the A, those actions are all mine. However, to say that he did not play a role, given everything that I tried for all those years is just plain stupid. Yes, STUPID!

 

Here I am, two years after the A. Faithful, rebuilding the trust with my H that I lost two years ago. Guess what? Nothing has changed with our physical relationship. NOTHING! You can call me shallow, or heartless or whatever, but I do expect to have a sex life.

 

Bad mouth all you want, but everyone has a story. This one is not yours, and until you take your seat in a throne way up in the clouds, you are not my judge and jury. I am plenty comfortable looking myself in the mirror because I have made the changes in my life that I needed. I will continue to do so, and whether my marriage survives is yet to be seen.

[anne1707]

can anyone clear up the acronym on this board WS what does it stand for

 

Here you go:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t228723/

[Memphis Raines]

Here we go again..... you are pitting one failure to another and trying to say one is the worse of the two. You are not qualified to make that conclusion for anyone else but yourself.

 

nobody on this board is qualified to make "conclusions" for anyone else.

 

they are opinions, and everyone has them.

[Memphis Raines]

Look, I have never justified my actions, and why you think my posts are showing some sense of entitlement, I really don't understand. I, too, am not perfect. I don't blame my husband for the A, those actions are all mine. However, to say that he did not play a role, given everything that I tried for all those years is just plain stupid. Yes, STUPID!

 

I never said he didn't have a role to play in the state of your marriage, just not YOUR choice to have an affair. who is stupid?

 

 

 

Here I am, two years after the A. Faithful, rebuilding the trust with my H that I lost two years ago. Guess what? Nothing has changed with our physical relationship. NOTHING! You can call me shallow, or heartless or whatever, but I do expect to have a sex life.

 

then divorce him and go get a sex life.

[StoneCold]

It's nothing to do with limitation, man. When cheating is involved you're playing with people's lives.

 

It has everything to do with limitations...and when you cheat you arent playing with one's life (oh brother) any more or less than any other way of letting someone down

[StoneCold]

I never said he didn't have a role to play in the state of your marriage, just not YOUR choice to have an affair. who is stupid?

 

 

 

Right...and she clearly said she takes responsibility for her choice to have an A.....so what your point?

 

you may need to rethink who the stupid one is and remains to be.

[John Michael Kane]

It has everything to do with limitations...

 

No it does not.

 

and when you cheat you arent playing with one's life (oh brother) any more or less than any other way of letting someone down

 

When you cheat you are playing with one's life. Letting someone down is not in the same caliber as giving someone an STD on purpose.

[John Michael Kane]

Right...and she clearly said she takes responsibility for her choice to have an A.....so what your point?

 

If she was honestly remorseful then she would no longer blame her husband for her affairs, and actually take full responsibility for the way her marriage is today.

 

you may need to rethink who the stupid one is and remains to be.

 

Memphis isn't the one who is stupid here.

[Memphis Raines]

Right...and she clearly said she takes responsibility for her choice to have an A.....so what your point?

 

you may need to rethink who the stupid one is and remains to be.

 

the point that she said that I said he didn't play a role in the problems they had, when I never said any such thing, and called it stupid.

 

so when she can show where I said that, then she can call me stupid. and if she can't, she can just consider herself that.

[rafallus]

It has everything to do with limitations...and when you cheat you arent playing with one's life (oh brother) any more or less than any other way of letting someone down

So I guess everyone suddenly got a superpower of fighting off STDs with their middle finger, except me. Great, teach me, how to do it.

[cheergirl]

When no one has to stay in an elective (relationships are elective) situation that causes them pain, there is also no reason to cheat.

 

If you want to change your life and cannot change your current association for the better, you leave. If someone else is such a better fit for you and your well being, why would you keep the person who is a poor fit and a detriment to your well being?

 

Cheating is lazy. Betrayal is either a selfish act or one of revenge. So what is there to sympathize with?

So one-sided... there are many varied reasons why people are not faithful... not just the two you profess to be the only two genuine reasons...

some people stay in bad marriages because they know they'll lose their homes, access to their children, and be paying loads of money in child support if they leave...

[OldOnTheInside]

there are many varied reasons why people are not faithful

Certainly are. Doesn't really mean much unless you are an apologist.

 

some people stay in bad marriages because they know they'll lose their homes, access to their children, and be paying loads of money in child support if they leave

Agreed. But then again, people don't just magically fart out kids and houses.

 

I'm amused by people who dig themselves into their own mess, then start baaawing at others when things get ugly. Not people in affairs specifically, just in general.

[nyrias]

Certainly are. Doesn't really mean much unless you are an apologist.

 

Agreed. But then again, people don't just magically fart out kids and houses.

 

I'm amused by people who dig themselves into their own mess, then start baaawing at others when things get ugly. Not people in affairs specifically, just in general.

 

You don't believe there are cases where circumstances create messes? People get into messes because they dig into it every time? Again, not people in affairs specifically, but in general.

[silktricks]

So one-sided... there are many varied reasons why people are not faithful... not just the two you profess to be the only two genuine reasons...

some people stay in bad marriages because they know they'll lose their homes, access to their children, and be paying loads of money in child support if they leave...

Absolutely. And some people cheat not because the marriage is bad but because of one of those other "many varied reasons" . And they stay in the marriage because that's where they want to be.

[OldOnTheInside]

You don't believe there are cases where circumstances create messes?

 

There certainly are.

 

But allow me to repeat myself.

 

I'm amused by people who dig themselves into their own mess, then start baaawing at others when things get ugly. Not people in affairs specifically, just in general.

Having said, that I have to ask: Have you ever had a job where you commanded a lot of authority and responsibility? Blaming the circumstances will get you laughed out of the room. In fact, since the circumstances will rarely fix a mess on their own, the person still has to take responsibility... Edited July 1, 2011 by OldOnTheInside

[cheergirl]

I'm seeing a common theme where someone comes here to ask for advice, they are the WS, and they get put through the ringer. I know many of us are hurting here, but this board isn't just for the BS. Isn't it? None of us are perfect individuals. I've been slowly acknowledging my own contributions to the demise of my marriage which assisted in my WH's infidelity. As much as we'd like to think it was all about the infidelity, it is much more than that.

 

Infidelity hurts both parties, the BS and the WS. This is a very hard time for everyone involved. If the WS comes here asking how to save their marriage, rather than putting them down, we should be helping them repair their marriage by sharing our experiences and feelings.

 

I know for many of us the feelings are raw and it is difficult, but the WS OPs are not YOUR WS so we should not take our anger out on them. These aren't the WS we generally see on this board. Just like the compassion we show to BS, we should be showing it to the WS, too.

 

Everyone involved in infidelity is hurting. Attempting to punish/flame WS's here is not constructive. It feeds into the anger/pain we are feeling which is self destructive and not healing. I'm sure I'm not going to win many friends here by this post, but this board is to discuss infidelity, support each other, and provide constructive feedback not to break people down. Everyone is just trying to get through this the best they can.

 

Wow, so beautiful and evolved...

 

I don't think the issue in the OP is essentially about what they deserve or not, or whether we should show sympathy. They may deserve nothing at all, but the main question for me (not only in this section of the board, but in general when someone asks for advice) is how you foster change in human beings. If you want to assist someone out of an affair, then you have to think about what will help that person change his/her behaviour. Personally I don't think name calling is a very effective way of fostering change, but constructive reality checks can be.

 

I am also of the opinion that I have no excuse not to show other people a basic level of respect. The fact that they don't show respect to their BS or anyone else in their lives, doesn't relieve me of this responsibility.

Ditto:bunny:

 

 

 

I find that as well. When you see posters coming on here and calling other posters scum and all sorts of other names and react with such intense anger and hostility, something tells me that this reveals a lot about their character, and that maybe there's a reason they, too, were cheated on. Whenever I point out that, you know, maybe two people are to blame in a broken marriage, it always gets steered back to cheating -- never any willingness to accept responsibility for the fact that those who were cheated on could have contributed to the sad state of their marriage. This pigheaded refusal to see the world any other way, and this myopia of focusing only on the affair - which is often a reaction to the situation that has arisen before the act - tells us a lot about the quality of their contributions to their marriage.

 

Again, I want to be clear: you cannot justify cheating. It's wrong - unequivocally. But as you say, the visceral rage from posters says a lot about them.

 

I'm a bit saddened by the hard-line approach, by some people here, that cheaters are pure scum not to be given any compassion. The fact is, almost everyone has done things that are selfish and hurtful to others, yet, because some of those people aren't coming out and admitting to those things, people are willing to show them compassion. Then you have a cheater admit to their negative behaviour, and they are to be crucified?

 

If there is something I've learned in this life it is that everyone has their reasons for doing what they do and acting how they act. Maybe it takes having someone you love hurt you, and then working to forgive them - forcing you to see the big picture. I mean, when I was 7 my mother stole the money in my bank account and ran off, leaving my sister and I. For years prior she'd disappear when my bday would come around. On the surface, we can see that and judge her harshly for her actions, but of course this would be in ignorance of the fact that she was an incest survivor, and grew up on the streets and in institutions - that she had substance abuse issues that this brought on. That her psyche couldn't handle certain things, and something had to give. Once we realize this, our judgement changes to that of having more compassion (mine does at least).

 

So, when all I know is that someone is a cheater, I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt and know that there IS a reason, and that - chances are - it's not because they are evil. Too often humans want to categorize and segment others - Johnny is a hero, Sally is evil. That isn't reality... that's the easy and lazy way of looking at life.

 

Amusingly, just about every cheater seems to also say that until they actually cheated, they'd never imagine themselves cheating. Many had even been cheated on in the past! No doubt they judged cheaters harshly, too, prior to their own infidelity. Only then might they realize the complexity of life, and change how they judge others. But how inefficient, isn't it, to require everyone to have to actually BE IN THE SITUATION before they'll see things with a wider perspective, with more understanding, and with more compassion. If we never try to see things from another point of view (or at least give the benefit of the doubt) until we're actually in the other's situation, we will never make much progress as a society, and we'll always be alone to a certain degree... never truly understanding one another.

Hear, hear....

[John Michael Kane]

Wow, so beautiful and evolved...

 

Ditto:bunny:

 

 

 

 

Hear, hear....Of course this would come from someone who's involved with a MM.

 

Mmmhmmm....

[OldOnTheInside]

If that was a dig at me I'll just say...hey, life's unfair, cheergirl.

 

You think that if I ended up in an affair and said "Well golly, it was all because of the circumstances that this happened", my partner would take me seriously? Doubt it.

 

How do I know this? Because I've ended up in far worse situations than affairs. I'm probably less of a saint than most of the people on LS.

 

Either accept the possibility that some of the "mean, close-minded, and judgemental" people here might be speaking unpleasant truths, or close your mind to them. Either way works.

[bentnotbroken]

If that was a dig at me I'll just say...hey, life's unfair, cheergirl.

 

You think that if I ended up in an affair and said "Well golly, it was all because of the circumstances that this happened", my partner would take me seriously? Doubt it.

 

How do I know this? Because I've ended up in far worse situations than affairs. I'm probably less of a saint than most of the people on LS.

 

Either accept the possibility that some of the "mean, close-minded, and judgemental" people here might be speaking unpleasant truths, or close your mind to them. Either way works.

 

 

Nicely said.