How we treat cheaters on this board

[gpatb43]

I know he doesn't need to show me but I wasn't posting to you. And the fact that he can't show me just further proves my point and even if he did, most likely I would still think it's a farce because so far I have only seen none on this board and in this world who have been completely remorseful for what they've done. I have not seen one cheater on this board and in this world actually keep their mouths closed and agreeing in unison with BSs instead of trying to protest and justify their actions and until I see that, my view of reconciliation will not change.

 

That's fair - so long you remain open minded to seeing it when you do

[gpatb43]

No.

 

The point is - it's up to everyone to evaluate on their own, whether it's success or not. You may think some are, some aren't, somebody else may think all failed, yet another person thinks all succeeded.

 

Nobody can prove another one wrong, because concept isn't reality

 

You can call all you want, that their criteria for successfulness are outlandish, ridiculous, etc. But it won't change jack ****.

 

That's exactly my point. One persons success is another persons failure - and neither are 'wrong' so long its their choice. That's the fundamental flaw of most of the haters on these pages - it seems they themselves are displaying the very disrespect they preach is the hallmark of those that cheat

[Jason Todd]

That's fair - so long you remain open minded to seeing it when you do

 

I don't need to remain "open-minded" about anything. That's a subjective, semantic, complex discussion about opinions that will leave all of us, including myself in a whirlwind.

[Untouchable_Fire]

People may hurt us, but our pain is our own.

I don't feel WSs are more especially culprits than anyone else here. They are in some cases more honest open expressors of the whole heap of sh*t that is a R gone wrong.

It's just someone who won't pretend wholesale, they just pretend a little for a while.

As are often about change. It's not nice to be deceived, but so what?

I think the hurt is about the loss of control. About the abandonment in terms of emotion.

If I were being deceived by a partner, I would have some initial Qs.

What are they expressing? Why? What has gone wrong, and is it us or him?

Unless I knew the cheater to be a shallow player in general, (which is sometimes but not often the case), I would have every reason to feel their pain as well as my own. If I had any.

I am also feeling at the mo that pain as opposed to sadness is about ego. Feel sad, feel betrayal, but the pain is only necessary as long as you hold on to ego investments.

 

A WS is someone who takes the trust given by a person they have pledged to love and honor, then uses that to hurt them in a very deep and personal way.

 

Betrayal is just the worst thing someone can do... and that betrayal hits the BS at their most naked and vulnerable spot.

 

I've been cheated on twice. The effects last forever. I struggle to trust anyone... I literally have to fake some emotions now. I am no longer the same person I was before and my capability to love feels... damaged. Maybe this will heal in time... but that isn't acceptable.

 

Cheating is emotional abuse. Cheating on your spouse should be treated the same as physically punching your spouse. I've been physically beaten and it NEVER hurt like this. Ego investments? WTF is that supposed to mean?

 

Personally I think most of what you are saying is way off. I'm in the relationship... I know what sucks about it... I didn't go off cheating. What pain is my cheating SO feeling? Huh? What pain? Are you referencing the tickling of a conscience? Clearly their conscience isn't anywhere near as strong as their selfishness.

 

Do you really think the pain of being cheated on comes from ego? I'm sorry but that is dumb. The greatest loss I suffered was confidence. I need that confidence for everything I do in life. Taking that away is like taking away my ability to live. That is where the pain comes from for me.

[Owl]

Success is relative too. He may not see any of these as successful reconciliations, and has every right to do so. And so do have people with opposite point of view.

 

Man, so many conflicts fade, after you accept relativity of certain concepts.

 

How could he possibly know or be in a position to determine what a successful reconciliation is...ESPECIALLY given his preconcieved belief that reconciliation is worthwhile or possible?

 

Jason...you asked someone to "show you" proof that reconciliation is possible. What would be sufficient "proof" for you?

 

Also...just curious...HAVE you posted previously here on LS under a different (banned perhaps) username? Your viewpoint and posting style combined sure seems VERY familiar...

[Owl]

People may hurt us, but our pain is our own.

 

I don't feel WSs are more especially culprits than anyone else here. They are in some cases more honest open expressors of the whole heap of sh*t that is a R gone wrong.

 

It's just someone who won't pretend wholesale, they just pretend a little for a while.

 

As are often about change. It's not nice to be deceived, but so what?

 

I think the hurt is about the loss of control. About the abandonment in terms of emotion.

 

If I were being deceived by a partner, I would have some initial Qs.

 

What are they expressing? Why? What has gone wrong, and is it us or him?

 

Unless I knew the cheater to be a shallow player in general, (which is sometimes but not often the case), I would have every reason to feel their pain as well as my own. If I had any.

 

I am also feeling at the mo that pain as opposed to sadness is about ego. Feel sad, feel betrayal, but the pain is only necessary as long as you hold on to ego investments.

 

Just curious...did you feel this way about things BEFORE you were a wayward spouse?

 

Or did this mindset come about as a result of being one?

 

And if the latter...have you considered at all that this mindset may have resulted as some internal rationalization and justification processes, rather than have any true basis in reality?

 

When you consider the point that pretty much nobody agrees with your mindset unless they're currently participating in an affair or have recently...doesn't this kind of ring a bell that the mindset may actually be pretty far away from the reality that most people live in?

[rafallus]

How could he possibly know or be in a position to determine what a successful reconciliation is...ESPECIALLY given his preconcieved belief that reconciliation is worthwhile or possible?

Everyone does this. So in fact did you, calling a reconciliation successful. So did nyrias. And so did I (except my opinion remains undisclosed as irrelevant now). And criteria needn't agree at all. And there is nothing that can be done to make them meet towards all people. You can ignore other's determination, because you find it ridiculous, you consider yourself wiser/more experienced than them, etc., but that's it.

 

Also...just curious...HAVE you posted previously here on LS under a different (banned perhaps) username? Your viewpoint and posting style combined sure seems VERY familiar...

Unless someone used some mind-control on me to post some stuff under different username, then no. If you don't believe me, feel free to report me to admins to check your claim out. Edited July 11, 2011 by rafallus

[Owl]

Everyone does this. So in fact did you, calling a reconciliation successful. So did nyrias. And so did I (except my opinion remains undisclosed as irrelevant now). And criteria needn't agree at all. And there is nothing that can be done to make them meet towards all people. You can ignore other's determination, because you find it ridiculous, you consider yourself wiser/more experienced than them, etc., but that's it.

 

Well...my question still remains. You commented that he might not believe that any of these reconciliations are "successful". So I asked, what's Jason's "criteria" for successful reconciliation?

 

Here's the thing. If people come here and claim to have successfully reconciled their marriage...by their criteria...then how could he POSSIBLY know more about their relationship and the success of their reconciliation or not?

 

He can't. Plain and simple.

 

He remains convinced that he can and does...which is simply ridiculous.

 

He can say that HE couldn't reconcile after infidelity, and be on the money. But to claim that no one can? Perhaps not by "his" standards (which remain undefined, by the way)...but why should "his" standards apply to someone else's relationship?

 

Unless someone used some mind-control on me to post some stuff under different username, then no. If you don't believe me, feel free to report me to admins to check your claim out.

 

My apologies. In truth the question about other usernames wasn't directed at you, but Jason. My post simply wasn't clear enough.

[Jason Todd]

How could he possibly know or be in a position to determine what a successful reconciliation is...ESPECIALLY given his preconcieved belief that reconciliation is worthwhile or possible?

 

The same can be asked for you about your perception of the betrayed who decided to divorce and find someone better than settling.

 

Jason...you asked someone to "show you" proof that reconciliation is possible. What would be sufficient "proof" for you?

 

I already stated what would make me believe one or two pages back.

 

Also...just curious...HAVE you posted previously here on LS under a different (banned perhaps) username? Your viewpoint and posting style combined sure seems VERY familiar...

 

I'm Jason Todd, former apprentice of Bruce Wayne.

[donnamaybe]

The same can be asked for you about your perception of the betrayed who decided to divorce and find someone better than settling.

But Owl isn't saying that a BS is incapable of making a R with a new person after being cheated on.

 

Owl doesn't make blanket statements about a subject he knows nothing about.

[anne1707]

I know he doesn't need to show me but I wasn't posting to you. And the fact that he can't show me just further proves my point and even if he did, most likely I would still think it's a farce because so far I have only seen none on this board and in this world who have been completely remorseful for what they've done. I have not seen one cheater on this board and in this world actually keep their mouths closed and agreeing in unison with BSs instead of trying to protest and justify their actions and until I see that, my view of reconciliation will not change.

 

Apparently this is the proof Jason needs. How he knows what Owl's wife thinks and feels is beyond me

[Jason Todd]

Well...my question still remains. You commented that he might not believe that any of these reconciliations are "successful". So I asked, what's Jason's "criteria" for successful reconciliation?

 

Here's the thing. If people come here and claim to have successfully reconciled their marriage...by their criteria...then how could he POSSIBLY know more about their relationship and the success of their reconciliation or not?

 

He can't. Plain and simple.

 

He remains convinced that he can and does...which is simply ridiculous.

 

He can say that HE couldn't reconcile after infidelity, and be on the money. But to claim that no one can? Perhaps not by "his" standards (which remain undefined, by the way)...but why should "his" standards apply to someone else's relationship?

 

 

 

My apologies. In truth the question about other usernames wasn't directed at you, but Jason. My post simply wasn't clear enough.

 

Again the same can be said for you and your perception of the betrayed who divorce their cheating POS, especially considering that your own wife did not go on the trip to see her internet/phone OM. Your dealings with your WS are only limited to an emotional affair. Every betrayed man who comes here are dealing with their wife doing the complete deed with the OM so how can you apply your situation to others when your wife didn't go physical with the OM. Sorry man your attempt to be superior because you're still married cannot hold the weight like a professional boxer.

[Owl]

The same can be asked for you about your perception of the betrayed who decided to divorce and find someone better than settling.

 

Why? I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with someone choosing to divorce and end their marriage, especially if infidelity is involved. In fact, I've recommended it many times on this forum. There's not a single thing wrong with choosing this route, or with the people who take it as an option.

 

The issue I have is with people who view it as the ONLY option, and try to INSIST to others that this is the case, and attempt to denigrate those that do reconcile.

 

The latter is a seperate group from the first.

[Jason Todd]

But Owl isn't saying that a BS is incapable of making a R with a new person after being cheated on.

 

Yet he goes on to say that everyone who hasn't cheated is more likely to cheat just as much as his own wife, who cheated before.

 

Owl doesn't make blanket statements about a subject he knows nothing about.

 

We all do, but in this case I know about the subject while Owl barely touches the surface.

[Jason Todd]

Apparently this is the proof Jason needs. How he knows what Owl's wife thinks and feels is beyond me

 

You assumed I assume about Owl's wife, nobody else.

[donnamaybe]

We all do, but in this case I know about the subject while Owl barely touches the surface.

Nope. Some of us have opinions while others continually spout their opinions as fact, especially on a subject having nothing to do with them - in THIS case Owl and HIS R with HIS W.

 

Now if you want to speak in absolutes about YOUR cheating situation, have at it.

[Owl]

We all do, but in this case I know about the subject while Owl barely touches the surface.

 

Really? Let's hear your backstory, so that I can clearly see the comparison of your knowledge base to mine.

 

C'mon...tell us all about what happened to you, so that we can compare what happened.

 

Or can't you? :D :D :D

[donnamaybe]

People may hurt us, but our pain is our own.

 

I don't feel WSs are more especially culprits than anyone else here. They are in some cases more honest open expressors of the whole heap of sh*t that is a R gone wrong.

Nope. In order for an A to happen, the WS has to be incredibly dishonest over a period of time.

[anne1707]

You assumed I assume about Owl's wife, nobody else.

 

According to you no one person on this whole planet has managed to successfully reconcile which would mean that you believe Owl and his wife have not reconciled (along with all the other posters on LS who say they have also reconciled).

 

How come you know our marriages better than we do?

[Jason Todd]

Why? I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with someone choosing to divorce and end their marriage, especially if infidelity is involved. In fact, I've recommended it many times on this forum. There's not a single thing wrong with choosing this route, or with the people who take it as an option.

 

Yet in every post to those who moved on it's always your perception of them that they are just angry, bitter people and nobody wants them. Now now Owl those blanket assumptions are not needed are they?

 

The issue I have is with people who view it as the ONLY option, and try to INSIST to others that this is the case, and attempt to denigrate those that do reconcile.

 

And the same can be said for you (not to mention your limited biased experience with infidelity) and your "need" to heavily advocate reconciliation as the only option.

 

The latter is a seperate group from the first.

 

......

[Jason Todd]

Nope. Some of us have opinions while others continually spout their opinions as fact, especially on a subject having nothing to do with them - in THIS case Owl and HIS R with HIS W.

 

So it's okay to have an opinion but when we speak it, it's spouting. Okay, gotcha.

 

Now if you want to speak in absolutes about YOUR cheating situation, have at it.

 

Why thank you for giving me the offer.

 

*Bows my head to your feet*

[Jason Todd]

Really? Let's hear your backstory, so that I can clearly see the comparison of your knowledge base to mine.

 

C'mon...tell us all about what happened to you, so that we can compare what happened.

 

Or can't you? :D :D :D

 

Married got cheated on the end.

[Jason Todd]

According to you no one person on this whole planet has managed to successfully reconcile which would mean that you believe Owl and his wife have not reconciled (along with all the other posters on LS who say they have also reconciled).

 

Not mentioning Owl (because I am well versed in his situation and his psychology his marriage has on him, as evidenced on LS) I think I previously said until I see a 100% remorseful spouse I promise that my view will change but until then, it will not, no matter who replies to me with their warped sense of thinking.

 

How come you know our marriages better than we do?

 

Because of the posts on here that display the true thoughts of what goes on in the minds of both the "betrayed" and wayward, along with my own personal experience with infidelity.

[anne1707]

Provide evidence that I am not remorseful. Provide evidence of me supporting affairs. Provide evidence of me b*tching about BSs.

 

And no, stuff I posted in the immediate aftermath of Dday will not do. You need to provide evidence for my thoughts, actions, behaviours as they now are.

[Jason Todd]

Provide evidence that I am not remorseful. Provide evidence of me supporting affairs. Provide evidence of me b*tching about BSs.

 

Just about every post of yours. The list of posts are nearly infinite.

 

And no, stuff I posted in the immediate aftermath of Dday will not do.

 

^

 

In fact, this is evidence right here!!!

 

 

You need to provide evidence for my thoughts, actions, behaviours as they now are.

 

I already told you, just nearly every post.