dyermaker Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Does anyone else notice that people use love as a weapon? That certain posters, almost all female, tend to say things like, "by not doing what I say, he's not respecting my feelings." Or simply, "He's disrespecting me."--or, my personal favorite, "If he loves me, he'd do what I say" The most obvious point is that they're doing the exact same thing. They have an idea, I don't want to get specific, so let's just say, "action X is disrespectful."--They then use whatever they can, respect, love, trust--whatever it is to blackmail you into being emotionally responsible for their pain. Then, because you do 'action X'--you're hurting them. Let's call that cycle 'action Y'--'action Y' is equally disrespectful and a misuse of love. Why aren't more men blackmailing their women into stopping their 'action Y'? It truly disgusts me that people justify their insecurities with something as pure as love. Honestly, if you're not willing to communicate (and the kind where you listen openly, not just bitch) with your man about 'action X', why the hell are you in a relationship with them? I wish I could explain this better. Link to post Share on other sites
Thinkalot Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 I think I hear what you are saying Dyer...and sadly, I think I may have been guilty of doing that very same thing, but without realising it at the time. So has my partner done it to me. Sometimes we just don't realise what we are doing, and our human flaws get in the way. Speaking for myself and my love though, we try to at least be aware of this trap, and to not go down that road. What irks me, is when people KNOW they are doing it, and do so anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
saintfrancis Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Well I guess it depends upon what "action X" is specifically, however I don't see how wanting someone -- anyone, spouse or other -- not to do something that shows disrespect for you is "emotional blackmail." Link to post Share on other sites
Thinkalot Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Sometimes drawing the line is the hard part. What do you have some kind of 'right' to ask for, and what do you not have a 'right' to ask for. Rules in the relationship, standards of behaviour, respect etc etc Similar arguments have arisen many times in relation to the 'should he/she be allowed to watch porn' argument. Link to post Share on other sites
saintfrancis Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Yeah. I guess the important thing then is to find someone who shares your values regarding "action X." Someone's disrespect might be another person's turn-on. Link to post Share on other sites
Thinkalot Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Good point. And I guess that's the battle, because no two people will ever think the same way on everything. Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 I don't think that love is "used" as blackmail. Some things you simply don't do if it is upsetting to the other person...it's just not worth it. It's a two way street, too. You mainly hear about us women griping about it, but men also request things from their "women" that they would like them not to do. Not doing something because it bothers the other person shows a great level of maturity and committment to your partner. It's not about getting what you want or getting your way, it's about respect and understanding. Dyer, I don't want a flame war with you....my flame resistant jump suit is at the cleaners! Link to post Share on other sites
Author dyermaker Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by saintfrancis Well I guess it depends upon what "action X" is specifically, however I don't see how wanting someone -- anyone, spouse or other -- not to do something that shows disrespect for you is "emotional blackmail." It's not a question of wanting something, if you have a legitimate concern, you should communicate it. Instead, what I see people bitching on LS about, is DEMANDING something, because you see them not doing what you want as disrespect or a lack of love, and it's sickening. Originally posted by Fedup&givingup I don't think that love is "used" as blackmail. Some things you simply don't do if it is upsetting to the other person...it's just not worth it. I see it all the time on this forum. "If he loves me, he wouldn't look at porn"--perfect example. Perhaps relationships work differently for different people, but a relationship in which you don't do something simply because it upsets someone, regardless of how you feel about it, sounds unhealthy to me. Because where do you draw the line? I'm talking specifically about when gals (and I say gals because I haven't yet heard a man do this) SILENCE communication on an issue by claiming it's an issue of love or respect. Not doing something because it bothers the other person shows a great level of maturity and committment to your partner. Or a willingness to have a quiet house. Are we talking about the same thing? Link to post Share on other sites
faux Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by dyermaker ...I see it all the time on this forum. "If he loves me, he wouldn't look at porn"--perfect example. Perhaps relationships work differently for different people, but a relationship in which you don't do something simply because it upsets someone, regardless of how you feel about it, sounds unhealthy to me. Because where do you draw the line? I'm talking specifically about when gals (and I say gals because I haven't yet heard a man do this) SILENCE communication on an issue by claiming it's an issue of love or respect... Agreed. I do not believe that I ought to change personal aspects of my life simply because someone is annoyed, or uncomfortable because of it. All too often I have run into these types of situations, where women will demand something yet see no need to actually discuss it with me. I always thought this was wrong, as I was willing to try to find a compromise, or at the very least understand how they feel, but all I would ever get in response was that something was "bothering" her, or "disrespectful" to her. These things tell me very little, and I do not like being made to feel guilty. So far as the original post in this thread is concerned, I know what you are attempting to say, as I have dealt with these issues over and over. I notice the same things on the forum and I'm bothered by it. I used to give in to this sort of behavior every time, but over time developed very little tolerance for it. I do not believe that one should make another feel guilty in order to maintain some balance in a relationship, or to get what one wants. Communication is key. I make it very clear these days when I do not agree with how I am being treated. I will not stand for this sort of coercion. Link to post Share on other sites
saintfrancis Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Ok dyer, I actually agree with you to a certain extent, but let me play devil's advocate... What if you have already "asked" someone not to look at porn, leave the toilet seat up, or whatever "action X" is that profoundly bothers you. I personally do not have a problem with porn, however many people do, and for some it's a religious objection, so let's use your example. What if a wife has already told her husband -- nicely -- how it makes her feel, and also communicated how grave the issue is for her... He promises not to look at porn anymore, but then does anyway behind her back. I also see a lot of THIS kind of behavior described here on LS. That is not the wife's fault. So, at what point does the wife stop communicating openly and start making demands? If I asked someone to stop something and they just continued it behind my back, I would be pissed, if that "something" was really important to me. And i would certainly not trust the person. It seems like at some point with a lot of these men that open communication doesn't mean much to them. Now, to just right out of the gate start making demands without trying to have an adult conversation, that would be wrong... Link to post Share on other sites
Author dyermaker Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by saintfrancis What if a wife has already told her husband -- nicely -- how it makes her feel, and also communicated how grave the issue is for her... He promises not to look at porn anymore, but then does anyway behind her back. In and of itself, this behavior is unacceptable. However, in some cases the men are emotionally blackmailed into feeling like they should stop--if communication was effective, the man would WANT to stop, but with certain issues, it's just a battle until the man, or anyone, promises something to escape it, just to gain some peace and quiet or whatever. Again, totally NOT acceptable to lie to your partner, but given the irrational nature about certain people about certain issues, I understand why they lie. I also see a lot of THIS kind of behavior described here on LS. That is not the wife's fault. The fact that he's lying is his fault, but again, communication is a two-way street, and if you're going behind someone's back, you obviously have failed to communicate on this. I think that the entire reason that these problems occur is because of neither side wanting to communicate all that much. If a man's reverting to secrecy (again, totally not condoned) it's because he didn't get anything out of the communication, either because he didn't put anything into it (his 'fault') or because is partner isn't hearing any of it (her 'fault'). I see a lot of women say things like, "I begged and begged him to stop, he said he would, he didn't, and now he doesn't love me"--and I read it as--"I self-righteously invested our love in something that has nothing to do with love". I'm not saying it's easy to resolve all relationship-conflicts, but I do find attempts to circumvent communication totally counterproductive, and it's no wonder the problems don't truly go away. Whether it be 'emotional blackmail' or just lying about it, and you do have a point, men are guilty of circumventing communication as well, is it any wonder that their problems still hurt them? Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 I would suspect many of these women are the ones who were more concerned over what 'ring' he was purchasing than what his views were on child raising, finances, goals, religion, sex, politics and the ever popular 'toilette seat' issue. Example: They erroneously assume if all the towels match....he will put down the toilette seat. They NEVER discuss the seat issue....they focus on what towels should be in their gift registry. LATER, they bitch so much about the toilette seat....NO ONE is enjoying the towels. They, as Dyer said, whine about if the guy really loved them, he would put down the seat. The truth is....if she really loved HIM....she would've focused on what kind of person he was before the marriage....instead of the towels. Just my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
Juggs Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by Arabess Example: They erroneously assume if all the towels match....he will put down the toilette seat. They NEVER discuss the seat issue....they focus on what towels should be in their gift registry. LATER, they bitch so much about the toilette seat....NO ONE is enjoying the towels. They, as Dyer said, whine about if the guy really loved them, he would put down the seat. The truth is....if she really loved HIM....she would've focused on what kind of person he was before the marriage....instead of the towels. Just my opinion. That about sums it up, alright. My husband and I made sure to discuss all the important stuff before we walked the isle and I know that if he and I change opinions on anything, we will discuss it and meet 1/2 way for the most part. I would never make a demand on my husband and tell him if he loved me he would do as I asked. I would tell him how his behavior effects me and my feelings and ask him to help me find a way to resolve things that is best for us both. A lot of people make assumptions about a lot of things and are very hurt when they find out they assumed wrong. And if it wasn't something discussed prior to marriage, then it is not something you have the right to make demands about afterwards. Link to post Share on other sites
UCFKevin Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Agreed. I do not believe that I ought to change personal aspects of my life simply because someone is annoyed, or uncomfortable because of it. DAMN skippy. Christ, you and I seem to have a lot in common. If you people don't like something your guy does, talk to him about it. If he doesn't want to change it, either accept it and move on, or dump him. Don't try to change him. NEVER TRY TO CHANGE SOMEONE. Let someone change for themselves and if you benefit, good, otherwise, do your own thing. You are your own person, just like they are theirs. You aren't their parent. Their owner. Although sometimes it seems like some of you want to be. "He shouldn't think about anyone else ever. He should only think of ME. Always." Paraphrasing, of course, but I've seen that many times here. That's VERY upsetting to me and pretty alarming. If I ever knew a girl I was seeing thought or said that, I'd say goodbye immediately because there are serious control issues involved. Link to post Share on other sites
tattoomytoe Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 my bf does not like some things i do, so i did say i would stop...did it behind his back, he found out, got pissed. we try to discuss the issue, but he believes one thing and will not bend or change his belief. so basically he said do what ypou want, but i might not hang around if you do what i do not think you should. what is that? Link to post Share on other sites
UCFKevin Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 That's lame as hell. What happened to acceptance nowadays? Respect? Don't people understand that other people aren't exactly the same as they are? Do different things? Feel different things? Think different things? Either adjust or get out of the kitchen. Damn! I'm beginning to be glad as all hell that I'm single. Link to post Share on other sites
Author dyermaker Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by tattoomytoe we try to discuss the issue, but he believes one thing and will not bend or change his belief. so basically he said do what ypou want, but i might not hang around if you do what i do not think you should. what is that? That's not really what I'm describing. He's being open and honest with you--he's never going to change how he feels, at least he's taking responsibility for his feelings. Isn't it better that he makes it his issue, instead of trying to force you to change by making it an issue of love or respect? Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by UCFKevin I'm beginning to be glad as all hell that I'm single. And I'm so looking forward to it myself! Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by UCFKevin I'm beginning to be glad as all hell that I'm single. It's exactly why I stay single!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Bubbles Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Me three! Don't forget me! Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 What happened to acceptance nowadays? Respect? Don't people understand that other people aren't exactly the same as they are? Do different things? Feel different things? Think different things? Either adjust or get out of the kitchen. Don't despair, Kevin et al. There are good folks out there; it only means that your screening procedure has to be rigorous It's why it is SO important to talk and talk and talk before you even start thinking someone might be a worthy mate no matter the level of 'chemistry' or whatever. Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 dyermaker You call it emotional blackmail. I call it manipulation. When was the last time you were happy after being manipulated? I think some women see marriage as some kind of yoke. “When you get married, you will make changes.” I’m not exactly a beast of burden. Link to post Share on other sites
Author dyermaker Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 Blockhead, you can call it whatever you'd like, it's still disturbing. Link to post Share on other sites
UCFKevin Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 I'm curious if this behavior exists thru out the relationship or does it slowly build? Warning signs? Link to post Share on other sites
Author dyermaker Posted April 13, 2004 Author Share Posted April 13, 2004 I think you'll know it when you see it, but there's no way to stop it, because it's fueled by their delusion that not doing what they say actually means a lack of love or respect. You can't win Kevin, because it's YOUR fault. YOU don't love them. YOU don't respect their feelings. If you truly loved them, you'd just abandon communication and do what they say... Link to post Share on other sites
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