echocrush Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by Fedup&givingup Nahhhhh, don't think so! As much of a sex kitten I am (purrrrrr LOL), I wouldn't want myself to be video taped in the act...I've got my pride. Besides, there's no telling on where or whose hands a video like that may fall into. That would be a disgrace But look what it's done for celebrities! I can't even stand to see myself dressed on camera... *shudder* you know maybe that's why women don't understand men looking at porn, I tend to think the naked human body is less art and more comedy myself... Link to post Share on other sites
Author moimeme Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 The topic has mutated away from its start, though Dyer tried to bring it closer with his remark about blaming porn for problems in the relationship. Hokey said: we have been so inundated that we now see sexual images everywhere I think that's because of the newness of it all for you. To me a flashlight's just a flashlight. I deem chronic, oppositional spousal porn consumption to be a species of infidelity committed by passive-aggressive, hostile husbands. Their goal is not just to get off. Rather, these pornboys wants to get off at the expense of their loving wives' self-image, feelings of self-worth, and love. Pornboy orgasms trump their marriages. So do affairs, which, somehow don't seem to earn nearly as much scorn from some people; the sort of dissonance I can't even begin to understand. Again, however, as Dyer keeps pointing out, it is unlikely that porn use is the cause of the relationship issues, but rather the symptom that there are issues in the relationship. The crux of this thread is supposed to be the thought processes in the heads of the women who get exercised about men's use of porn versus the men's stated reasons with the larger issue being what women believe to be true of men's ability to understand the differences between love and lust, as well as men's true reasons for looking at porn. If a man didn't give me enough sex in a relationship With all due respect, this isn't about sexual dysfunction in marriage. Interestingly, we have heard from some of the fellows who tell us their honest feelings about their use of this stuff - but nobody's listeneing. So we are back to the question - women, do you simply disbelieve your men when they tell you that they don't 'prefer' the ladies to you? If so, why? Are all men shallow liars? Link to post Share on other sites
End of my rope Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by UCFKevin We're now in round 92, and neither sides are going down any time soon! AMAZING! Neither side is wavering, not even close! It's like these two behemoths are just going at each other with everything they have and it's not doing a THING! For those of you watching on Pay Per View, just be glad it's not an hourly rate! Back to you, Bob. Gonna have to agree with Kev on this one. This is yet another porn discussion that isn't going to get any of us anywhere. For the most part it's split down the middle with men on one side and women on the other. (and there are exceptions to that) Some people think it's wrong and you can't convince them otherwise, and some people think it's perfectly normal and you can't convince them otherwise either. Link to post Share on other sites
meanon Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by Tony "You'd think that people would've had enough of silly porn threads." - Paul McCartney LOLOLOL but the next line goes something like: "you look around you and you KNOW it isn't so!!!" If a man didn't give me enough sex in a relationship...... I'm going to pack up his crap and send him down the road. Zara's right guys... this IS the bottom line. Forget the cause, context matters and if it affects the relationship it's TROUBLE. Link to post Share on other sites
Author moimeme Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 Not trying to convince anybody of anything except maybe to examine their own thought processes in figuring out why they get so upset. 'Because it makes me feel bad' isn't good enough. There are more 'whys' behind that. Plus, there are more causes of problems than just that. My hope in starting this particular thread is not to get people to go around the same loop but to do a little more investigation into their own beliefs and motivations. If you don't take out your old dusty attitudes and air them out every now and then, they tend to get fossilized even though they have become outdated. Forget the cause Oh no. Nosirree. That, IMHO, is the very worst thing people can do. If you have a problem, you *need* to uncover the cause otherwise you'll go find the wrong solution. You can only repair something properly if you figure out what it is that needs to be repaired. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Forget the cause?!? That's the whole reason women have problems with porn. If it wasn't porn, it would be football. If it wasn't football, it would be having friends. If it wasn't having friends, it would be having too many things in the house that begin with the letter 'r'. If not 'r', then 'w'. Nothing occurs in a vacuum, ever. And going around denying your own responsibility or mutual responsibility will never solve problems. Link to post Share on other sites
echocrush Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 "Honey, do I look fat?" at nine months pregnant... when you show someone a picture years later they ask what that is behind you, your answer? "the refrigerator" "Honey, is she prettier than me?" of course he thinks I am the most beautiful woman on earth, stretch marks make the woman Maybe your question should be why do women ask such stupid questions??? Yes men lie, we expect them to lie, and we don't believe them... ancient as relationships themselves. Does he prefer me to the porn? Well... from a purely scientific viewpoint, let do the math. Me = 31, 160 lbs, 36D, my stomach looks like a relief map, my chest is migrating south, and my butt has more dimples than a golf ball and I am REAL Her= 19 (barely legal, hot teens), 100 lbs, DDD, flat tummy, no lines, no dimples, and she is FAKE Of course he prefers her from time to time for his fantasies, but he is with me, and I expect him to lie, and I thank him for it... I am real, she is fantasy... I can deal with that.... He can look at the menu all he wants because he always dines at home... now if he ever calls me and says he's dining out tonight... we'll talk. You know if a man boosts his womans self esteem enough she won't mind. maybe that's the point... My ex bothered me because I was invisible to him, I've had friends whose husbands actually mooed at them, or called them duck, or even used the porn as a illustration to show her what exactly was wrong with her... Then of course you will be bothered... but my husband... by putting me first, telling me why I am better than the woman he is looking at, and never ever putting my body down in any way, he has made me feel much more secure with myself and his love for me. I feel totally secure... Yes, he lies, and I love him for it... So you original comment was it's about appearance, and maybe a little... but it IS about how healthy the relationship is to begin with... so the entire thread is valid, everyone is right, and the battle is over, it's a tie right??? I have conflict issues... Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by dyermaker Forget the cause?!? That's the whole reason women have problems with porn. If it wasn't porn, it would be football. If it wasn't football, it would be having friends. If it wasn't having friends, it would be having too many things in the house that begin with the letter 'r'. If not 'r', then 'w'. Nothing occurs in a vacuum, ever. And going around denying your own responsibility or mutual responsibility will never solve problems. Now this is just not true, Dyer...nor is it fair of you to suggest that if we weren't bitching about this it would be about something else. I don't care if I'm with someone that watches football...I actually like watching the game. I don't have a problem with a guy having friends either. Link to post Share on other sites
meanon Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Dyer, I absolutely agree - if you indulge in anything to excess, to the extent that you no longer want to sleep with your partner then it's trouble. In one relationship it may be porn, in another football (?).... So many women tell us that rabid porn consumption has had this effect on their relationships - I believe them. There's nothing inherently wrong with porn - that's the point I was trying to make. The context in which it's used matters. Link to post Share on other sites
Author moimeme Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 I have conflict issues... Uh-oh. Well, then, avoid any threads whose titles include anything to do with religion, politics, or sex. Which leaves you the 'is my penis too small' and 'am I pregnant' threads, some Current Events, and the jokes. It's not about winning or losing, echo. It's about trying to provoke different ways of approaching problems. A lot of people stick to their own perspective and won't consider any other. Other folks are willing to look at problems and their solutions from different angles. This thread is about some of those different angles. but it IS about how healthy the relationship is to begin with... And you brought up some excellent points. You see, maybe the guys who want to look at the odd raunchy site without grief will take a page from your husband's book and go that extra measure to reassure their wives that they do love them and desire them - IF the porn isn't happening because communication and sex have broken down already. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by meanon Dyer, I absolutely agree - if you indulge in anything to excess, to the extent that you no longer want to sleep with your partner then it's trouble. In one relationship it may be porn, in another football (?).... The point I was trying to make was that it's NOT the indulgence that causes the problem, it's the problem that causes the indulgence. So many women tell us that rabid porn consumption has had this effect on their relationships - I believe them. There's nothing inherently wrong with porn - that's the point I was trying to make. The context in which it's used matters. I don't believe them. If they're not getting sex because their man prefers porn, it's a lot easier to say "IT'S PORN'S FAULT" then to actually address the intimacy issues. Link to post Share on other sites
Sundaymorning Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 OK I HAVE A NEW QUESTION....... As a female, Yeah, I do get jealous that my bf may get horny over another girl....I understand its nature, etc. BUT I think doing the same thing (only with males) will make me feel a lot better, more equal,etc, and even more sexual. So, would it be wrong or weird of me, to do just as guys do, in a natural feminine way? Looking at playgirls, checking out other men...all while I have a bf? It makes me feel weird, but it is liberating all at the same time. AND I think it would make my jealousy go away, because we are equal, and hey, I am getting an eyeful too! Link to post Share on other sites
UCFKevin Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 The only reason it would be wrong for you to do that is if you're ONLY doing it to get back at your BF. You seriously are telling us that you want to masturbate just for spite? C'mon, honey, get a grip. Link to post Share on other sites
Sundaymorning Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by UCFKevin The only reason it would be wrong for you to do that is if you're ONLY doing it to get back at your BF. You seriously are telling us that you want to masturbate just for spite? C'mon, honey, get a grip. not really for spite, but to see what it is like really. I have always tried to cut all guys out of the picture when in a relationship, and of course, that isnt reality or something. what would it be like to be equal in this sense, i guess is what i truly am wondering. what would it be like to be non-ladylike *gasp*. Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by Sundaymorning OK I HAVE A NEW QUESTION....... As a female, Yeah, I do get jealous that my bf may get horny over another girl....I understand its nature, etc. BUT I think doing the same thing (only with males) will make me feel a lot better, more equal,etc, and even more sexual. So, would it be wrong or weird of me, to do just as guys do, in a natural feminine way? Looking at playgirls, checking out other men...all while I have a bf? It makes me feel weird, but it is liberating all at the same time. AND I think it would make my jealousy go away, because we are equal, and hey, I am getting an eyeful too! OR would your BF have a problem with you getting off to some virtual sex video by Bill (or whatever), where the guy acts like he's doing you, poking you. That's the ultimate, as far as I'm concerned. Link to post Share on other sites
meanon Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 The point I was trying to make was that it's NOT the indulgence that causes the problem, it's the problem that causes the indulgence. That is contrary to everything I know about the nature of addiction. A heroin addict, an alcoholic, a gambler, a chronic porn user does not indulge because they have problems in their relationships. They have problems in their relationships because they are addicts. Link to post Share on other sites
Author moimeme Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 The main reason most people use porn (at least according to anecdotal evidence; haven't looked for research) is to imagine themselves with their partners doing whatever's going on in the image. People look at pictures of people for the body parts. Some people do fantasize about other people, but lots don't. I'd be very surprised if you found yourself desiring the people in the pictures, and even more so if you find yourself desiring them more than your bf. Generally, this stuff gets people itching to schtup their own honeys. Link to post Share on other sites
Author moimeme Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 That is contrary to everything I know about the nature of addiction We are not talking about addiction. That's a whole other issue. We are talking about occasional or even regular, but not excessive, use of porn. to some virtual sex video by Bill (or whatever), where the guy acts like he's doing you, poking you It isn't the guy which is of interest. It's the activity. Link to post Share on other sites
Sundaymorning Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 To add to this: I am tired of hearing girls say they dont like to see men naked I am tired of intentionally not looking at another good looking guy cause I am protecting another man's feelings I am tired of sitting here while other men look and hearing that it is natural for them. Maybe it is natural for us too!!! I am tired of being a lady and looking at porn seriously and loving naked men would be weird for others to learn that I may do I am just tired of feeling like I have to sit here and listen to the porn issue being only the man's problem. WHY cant it be a woman's problem too?! WHY is it always men that get us women in a tizzy?!? Why dont women get men in a tizzy?! How about it all be equal and none of us get either sex in a tizzy? *sigh* Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by Sundaymorning not really for spite, but to see what it is like really. I have always tried to cut all guys out of the picture when in a relationship, and of course, that isnt reality or something. what would it be like to be equal in this sense, i guess is what i truly am wondering. what would it be like to be non-ladylike *gasp*. But wait! Did I hear something significant in this message???? YES, I did! I heard you say that you cut all guys out of the picture. Bingo, that's important. And, what this amounts to is, since you decided to do that (eliminate all guys/men from your relationship, although porn is not "real" tangible people), it is not right nor fair if your boyfriend has not reciprocated. This is what makes things unbalanced. If you try it out just to test the waters, you will be going against your own beliefs in order to try to see what makes your boyfriend tick, and that's just sabotaging your relationship. Stick to your guns, that if you are not comfortable in being in a relationship where pornography is used by your partner behind your back, that it is not OK. Although I CAN and DO understand why men sometimes resort to pornography, I know that it is something I don't accept. And in my opinion, that makes me feel like I am mature in knowing what I will and what I won't tolerate, period. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by meanon That is contrary to everything I know about the nature of addiction. A heroin addict, an alcoholic, a gambler, a chronic porn user does not indulge because they have problems in their relationships. They have problems in their relationships because they are addicts. That's because you're calling it an addiction. A lack of intimacy is the problem, porn is just how you cure yourself of the physical need for release, when there's a trouble filling the emotional need with your partner. Link to post Share on other sites
Sundaymorning Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by Fedup&givingup But wait! Did I hear something significant in this message???? YES, I did! I heard you say that you cut all guys out of the picture. Bingo, that's important. And, what this amounts to is, since you decided to do that (eliminate all guys/men from your relationship, although porn is not "real" tangible people), it is not right nor fair if your boyfriend has not reciprocated. This is what makes things unbalanced. If you try it out just to test the waters, you will be going against your own beliefs in order to try to see what makes your boyfriend tick, and that's just sabotaging your relationship. Stick to your guns, that if you are not comfortable in being in a relationship where pornography is used by your partner behind your back, that it is not OK. Although I CAN and DO understand why men sometimes resort to pornography, I know that it is something I don't accept. And in my opinion, that makes me feel like I am mature in knowing what I will and what I won't tolerate, period. what my bf has done is minimal, and I do not think it is really bad at all. It does bother me though. but that comes because i do not understand men really. he will look at a pic here and there and it will make me sick, but that has to be my own issue. i do beleive cutting out men and thoughts of other men in my serious relationship is the best for me. being raised in a very modest household, it is all i know. asking my guy to not ever look again would be something awesome but no way i will never do it. i dont think anyone else on the planet thinks the way i do...so i cant expect him to. so i must find a solution...to change my ways! Link to post Share on other sites
UCFKevin Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Why dont women get men in a tizzy?! Wow. I don't think I can truly take anything you say seriously from now on. Link to post Share on other sites
wonderwhy Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 I think I'm finally starting to understand all of this. Men look at porn to get their jollies... nothing more. His gf or wife can do the exact same thing... she can do more to excite him. Afterall, how much repetition can one actually take. Porn is really all the same. Personally, I dont really find porn all the exciting. I mean sure MOST porn stars are somewhat attractive- no one would look at them if they werent. But MOST porn stars are fake. What's the point in competing with something that doesnt really exist. Your man loves you for you. Your looks are part of who you are... and as hard as it is to accept sometimes... he loves the way you look. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with not looking like Carmen Electra. If people aren't able to accept you for who you are, then they are not worth you time. THE END! Link to post Share on other sites
Sundaymorning Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by UCFKevin Wow. I don't think I can truly take anything you say seriously from now on. i meant in the same way (pornish type things) Link to post Share on other sites
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