WTF? What makes me sick about all these stupid porn discussions

[Grinning Maniac]

Originally posted by moimeme

We're all about saving time, ladies

 

Yeah, GM. Me, too!

 

HOT.

[Caroli]

Originally posted by Grinning Maniac

Ladies, I want you to give me one good reason as why we should bother to have "fantasies" when looking at some random internet titty is easier, faster, and achieves the same result.

 

You are right, why you need to use your brain?

 

Originally posted by Grinning Maniac

Another thing. Do we begrudge the fact that you have vibrators?

 

it's funny, my boyfriend doesn't care at all if I look at porn but he goes crazy if I use a vibrator

 

I don't think that a person can say that looks at porn is sick or that a girl that doesn't like her bf or husband looking at porn is crazy. I think that is something that depends on the circumstances of each couple and on the way of thinking of every person involves in the relationship. However, if my boyfriend tell me "I am going to look at porn, I don't care about how you feel about that and I don't care if your self-esteem suffers with that" OK, he can go to hell, he and his porn. Fortunately he is not that kind of person and we could talk about that and made some conclusions together.

[InmannRoshi]

Originally posted by Caroli

You are right, why you need to use your brain?

 

We use our brain, we just use it differently.

 

 

Originally posted by Caroli "I am going to look at porn, I don't care about how you feel about that and I don't care if your self-esteem suffers with that" OK, he can go to hell, he and his porn. Fortunately he is not that kind of person and we could talk about that and made some conclusions together.

 

Your self esteem and your self worth is your responsibility. And if this theoretical boyfriend has to constantly find himself giving up things in his life that he enjoys, or at the very least finds himself having to apologize for it constantly, simply because you can't self sufficently feel good about yourself don't be surprised if he starts resenting you for it. Just like you would resent him forbidding you from watching Troy because he feels inadequate compared to Brad Pitt.

[Grinning Maniac]

Originally posted by Caroli

You are right, why you need to use your brain?

 

 

 

it's funny, my boyfriend doesn't care at all if I look at porn but he goes crazy if I use a vibrator

 

I don't think that a person can say that looks at porn is sick or that a girl that doesn't like her bf or husband looking at porn is crazy. I think that is something that depends on the circumstances of each couple and on the way of thinking of every person involves in the relationship. However, if my boyfriend tell me "I am going to look at porn, I don't care about how you feel about that and I don't care if your self-esteem suffers with that" OK, he can go to hell, he and his porn. Fortunately he is not that kind of person and we could talk about that and made some conclusions together.

 

1) Why exactly would you need to "use your brain" for masturbation? Please explain that to me. Jerking off is far from an intellectual exercise, dear. We're just trying to cum. Nothing more. Furthermore, you didn't answer my question. Why would any man want to waste the time fantasizing when porn gets the job done quicker and easier and all we are interested in is busting a nut? Give me one good reason. Also, explain to me why for some reason the women here seem to find masturbating to fantasies more acceptable than masturbating to porn. Sexual fantasies are just "mind porn". We're still beating off, so what's the difference?

 

2) How you feel about yourself is your own problem. Why should he give up jerking off every now and then just because YOU don't feel pretty? Good point with the Brad Pitt analogy, Inmann haha. Also, I don't know why your boyfriend would have a problem with you having a vibrator, personally I think that's a turn on. As I said in another thread, if I came home and found my S.O. using a vibrator, I would want to immediately pounce on her and **** her brains out. When women catch us having a wank, they act like we're a dog that shat on the rug.

 

PS: I want someone to address the rest of what I said in my original post, if you dare.

[InmannRoshi]

I would love to learn more about the amazing cerebrial experience that comes from reading novels entitled "Absolute Pleasure", "He's All That", "His Hot Number" and "The Toy Box" (all real titles I pulled off of the Harlequin Romance Novel homepage). Or the intellectual enlightenment that comes from watching movies like "How to Lose A Guy In 10 Days", "Maid In Manhattan", "The Wedding Planner" or "Never Been Kissed".

 

Obviously, the intellectual stimulation derived from enjoying such fine works of literature and cinema is something that my feeble and primative male mind can't possibly comprehend.

 

 

(and I totally agree with you on the vibrator being a turn on... for most men I know, nothing is more beautiful than a woman having an orgasm ... which is probably why the woman's pleasure is so exaggerated in porn, no?)

[sinner]

if my boyfriend tell me "I am going to look at porn, I don't care about how you feel about that and I don't care if your self-esteem suffers with that" OK, he can go to hell, he and his porn.

 

I fail to see how that statement is at all objectionable. Every relationship has built in demands, expectations, reciprocal dealings. Why is it wrong, inappropriate, bad, etc., for a lover/spouse to feel disrespected if their significant other disregards or breaches or violates their agreement that neither will pleasure themselves to porn? This is especially true if this agreement was made at the outset of the relationship. Adultery is so evil, but compulsively jacking-off to porn knowing it will damage, if not kill, a relationship is A-ok because boys will be boys and "how she feels " about herself "is her problem." Gimme a break.

 

News flash: When you're in a relationship how your partner feels about herself is not solely her problem especially when it's the guy's conduct that's causing problems by maliciously torpedoing his partner's self-esteem. Inflict no harm , as some like to say again and again and again.

 

There's more than a whiff of misogyny to this thread.

[InmannRoshi]

Funny, I detected the strong scent of misandry.

[moimeme]

Why would any man want to waste the time fantasizing when porn gets the job done quicker and easier

 

Precisely!

 

I bore myself to tears if I try to fantasize. I am too fussy and then get into scenarios and surroundings and... blah. Besides, I don't ever fantasize about guys in my past - that's over with, and if there's a person in my present, I'll use an image and insert the person of my dreams into it or just imagine the sensations of whatever's going on in the image - but NOT with the people in it! Ick!

 

reciprocal dealings

 

PRECISELY!!!!! Someone DEMANDING someone else not do something is not at all reciprocal. As for 'breaking promises', I've dealt with that a zillion times. There are promises and promises and promises to break longstanding habits of any sort (particularly harmless ones) are stupid promises to make. Habits are habits for a reason. They are difficult to combat at best - and anyway, it is a HARMLESS habit.

 

That women feel insecure is something they need to work on themselves for their own benefit, not something they must foist upon others. Tell me, ought a woman demand that her female friend dress in ugly clothes or not wear makeup because the friend's beauty threatens her? Ought she demand that a thin, svelte friend gain weight so that her self-esteem won't suffer? That whole argument is beyond ridiculous!!!!!!

 

And I'm getting sick of hearing all these women whine about their self-esteem. You females are giving men the impression we are all a bunch of pitiful, woesome creatures who can't hack living on a planet where people are - gasp! - different and some look better than you - or me! Listen, I am no beauty. Some folks think I look great but there are others who do not. I do not agonize over this. If a guy says I'm the woman he wants, I believe him!!! Imagine that!!!!

[Caroli]

One thing that I really want to say is this: I don’t have problem with my self-esteem if my bf looks at porn. It’s because that I have self-esteem that I don’t want to be involve in a marriage that I think that maybe I can not stand. It’s because that I have self-esteem that I think by myself and not only say: “all the men do it, of course my bf can do it”.

 

I don’t care about my bf looking at porn once in a while. I was worried that later that could be a big problem between us because he could start looking at his porn five times a day or something like that.

 

I said that after talking with my bf about this we made conclusions. Why a lot of people assume that the conclusions were that he needed to stop looking at porn?. Our agreement was put limits so we could try to avoid that this issue can be out of control later. I never said that he needed to stop doing that but he was the one who agrees that we needed to be sure that both of us could be comfortable in our relationship.

 

I’m sorry that I can not agree with your point of view but if you are in a committed relationship you should care about how the other person feels. Be can be serious here, if you say that you don’t care about the other person’s feelings do you think that you can stand her or him through a serious relationship? Do you think that a serious relationship is: “I do whatever thing that I want, I don’t care if you like it or not”, I’m sorry but in a serious relationship you need to communicate with your partner and you need to make some agreements.

 

I am not going to say that if some guy looks at porn then he is sick. In the same way I am not going to say that if some girl doesn’t like her bf looks at porn then she has low self-esteem. Come on, more than only try to insult someone and pretend that you know all the answers for everything it’s better only read the posts and think about that, if you have an open mind you can see other sides of the story and maybe understand better the people around you.

 

I'm getting sick of hearing all these women making all the other women that don’t agree with man looking compulsively at porn looking like stupid, low self-esteem girls. You females are giving men the impression that we need to accept everything without caring about our points of view. Women can talk now, we can say if we like something or not, we can argue and we can try to find reasons. We are not stupid girls that like to read romance novels and that feel insecure because guys look at porn. We want respect, we want to feel satisfied in life and sexually and if we think that something is threatening that we can try to solve it.

[Caroli]

Originally posted by Grinning Maniac

I don't know why your boyfriend would have a problem with you having a vibrator, personally I think that's a turn on. As I said in another thread, if I came home and found my S.O. using a vibrator, I would want to immediately pounce on her and **** her brains out.

 

Ok, guys there is something that maybe you are not understanding here. If your wife/gf is using a vibrator when you are not at home, do you think that is because they want that you could come home and **** her brains out? Come on, if she is doing that it’s because she wants to do it, it’s because that makes her feel good, it’s because she can get something that maybe you can not give her not because “she was using it because you were not there (that could be sometimes but I don’t think that most of the times)”. So, stop fantasizing and lying to yourselves. If that can still turn you on that is so nice but that doesn’t mean that you are invited to the party.

[Grinning Maniac]

*reads moi's post* First off, I would like to nominate Moimeme for "Loveshack Woman of the Year".

 

Second, Caroli, you make a critical mistake in your last post by thinking everything revolves around YOU. I'm guessing that happens a lot. Not once in my post did I say she'd be doing it because she WANTS me to **** her brains out. I just said that walking in on my woman doing that would be a turn on, whereas with women concerning men masturbating, it's the exact opposite in most cases.

 

Also thanks for proving my point as to why we masturbate as well. Helped a lot.

 

Come on, if [he] is doing that it’s because [he] wants to do it, it’s because that makes [him] feel good, it’s because [he] can get something that maybe you can not give [him] not because you were not there

 

What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

 

As UFCKevin pointed out earlier, sometimes beatng off is easier. We don't have to worry about if you're getting yours.

[Mr Spock]

As UFCKevin pointed out earlier, sometimes beatng off is easier. We don't have to worry about if you're getting yours.

 

Hear, hear. That goes both ways.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Grinning Maniac

First off, I would like to nominate Moimeme for "Loveshack Woman of the Year".

But she's a disingenuous liberal who's so far outside the mainstream...

[Olivia_19742004]

Porn can be a healthy part of any relationship. It can also be an unhealthy part of any relationship. It all really depends on how it affects both parties. Anything in extreme can have an adverse affect on a couple.

 

I've had two relationship where porn was more important than sex (1: five years, 2: four years(marriage)). I don't have a problem with porn. It can be sexy. It can be fun. It can turn me on.

 

I have a problem with porn when it robs me of the intimacy I need with my lover/husband.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Olivia_19742004

I have a problem with porn when it robs me of the intimacy I need with my lover/husband.

Is it possible that the porn is an effect of that, and not a cause? Like, it's his way of dealing with the lack of intimacy?

[Olivia_19742004]

Is it possible that the porn is an effect of that, and not a cause? Like, it's his way of dealing with the lack of intimacy?

 

I don't think so. I've always had a very high sex drive and I'm extremely adventurous. The intimacy was there in the beginning. We had a active, yet simple sex life. He continuously claims he's vanilla so the simplistic side of it is to his liking. I'd try just about anything. There hasn't been any reason for him to feel as though he couldn't be with me sexually. As he increased his time viewing porn the more withdrawn he became. Almost to the point where he had convinced himself that our relationship was normal, that he didn't have a high libido, and that sex wasn't a priority to him (his own words).

[dyermaker]

Though, I think a lot of people confuse "amount of sex(ual interest)" with amount of intimacy.

[Olivia_19742004]

In this regard, we're talking sex. I figured that'd be a given. There are many things that are intimate that don't deal with sex, but I figured if I used the word intimacy it would give the image of more than just a quick romp in the sack.

 

A woman can only beg a man so many times to make love to her..

[dyermaker]

No, I knew what we were talking about, but there is a difference between sexual intimacy and sexual activity in general. It's possible that as the intimacy between partners declines, you find other ways to deal with your sexual needs, whether through porn or whining, or whatever.

[Olivia_19742004]

Well if you take a husband that masturbates to porn every night and a wife that tries to initiate sex every day (various ways of initiating) but no sexual contact occurs for weeks at a time, what came first? The detachment (which I believe was caused by porn. I read up on sex/porn addictions evaluated by doctors) or the lack of sexual intimacy?

 

Say a husband and wife woke up together, got dressed for work together, held hands in the car, held hands on the subway, kissed before leaving for work, talked three times throughout the day, met after work, held hands on the way home, ate dinner together, snuggled on the couch watching TV/Movies and then as soon as the conversation came to sex, he wasn't in the mood, she got tired of asking, she went to bed, and he masturbated to porn. Where is the lack of non-sexual intimacy? Do you think there is something missing?

 

Maybe I'm missing something. And I'm not trying to be sarcastic or argumentative. I'm seriously trying to figure out what came first. The lack of intimacy and then the porn or the porn and the lack of intimacy. I think the porn affected his need for sexual intimacy. I think it made him detached and every time it came up he felt he needed to defend himself. So much so that he preferred to demean me and my needs in order to make himself feel it was okay to go without sex for weeks a time because he would rather read a book, or he wasn't in the mood or he didn't have time or it'd make him tired and so on... I don't think porn is the problem. I think his dependency on the porn for stimulation became the problem and caused the relationship to deteriorate.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Olivia_19742004

Well if you take a husband that masturbates to porn every night and a wife that tries to initiate sex every day (various ways of initiating) but no sexual contact occurs for weeks at a time, what came first? The detachment (which I believe was caused by porn. I read up on sex/porn addictions evaluated by doctors) or the lack of sexual intimacy?

See, that's the thing. It's not about the sexual contact. I see the dichotomy as this:

 

1. The man has a sexual addiction/compulsion, and can' t get over it: In this case, he has an illness, and it won't go away unless treated. I find it alarning that a large number of women say "he's sick/ill/addicted" and use that to justify seperating from their husbands--what about in sickness and in health?

 

2. The man uses porn to deal with the lack of intimacy: This is, from what I've read, my most common conclusion. When the intimacy goes away, for whatever reason, I'd place money on communication problems, but it could be tons of things--the man turns to porn. Lacking an equal alternative, you see it as the porn causing the lack of intimacy, and become angry, which further drives him away from resolving the real problem.

 

3. The man has a problem with his sex-drive: He's on medication, he's stressed, etc...m

Say a husband and wife woke up together, got dressed for work together, held hands in the car, held hands on the subway, kissed before leaving for work, talked three times throughout the day, met after work, held hands on the way home, ate dinner together, snuggled on the couch watching TV/Movies and then as soon as the conversation came to sex, he wasn't in the mood, she got tired of asking, she went to bed, and he masturbated to porn. Where is the lack of non-sexual intimacy? Do you think there is something missing?

Yeah, I think, as I've said, it's more complex than passive-agressive porn users acting out against their wives. In most cases, I truly do believe number 2 is to blame, which makes it hard to quickly pass off the problem as "HIS PROBLEM" and makes patching up the lack of intimacy a priority that most aren't willing to do.

I think the porn affected his need for sexual intimacy.

I doubt it, Porn is an alternative to intimacy, not a substitute for it.

 

I'm really not trying to start an argument about you, I don't know enough about your situation to conclude something about YOU, I'm just telling you what I know from reading billions of threads on this topic. When people break up, it's way easier to blame the other person entirely than to examine the cicrumstances that lead up to whatever straw broke the camel's back.

[Olivia_19742004]

I doubt it, Porn is an alternative to intimacy, not a substitute for it.

 

So when your wife asks you what your fantasies are and you tell her you don't have any and you (the husband) never ask her what hers are the porn is an alternative?

 

When your wife puts on sexy lingerie, tries to unzip your pants or touch you in a suggestive manner and you tell her you're reading a book, porn is an alternative?

 

When your wife tells you she'd like to do [insert fantasy] and you tell her you'd do it but it wouldn't really do anything for you, porn is an alternative?

 

When your wife tells you she'd like to try [insert fantasy] and you tell her that people with fetishes have too much time on their hands and you are really just vanilla because everything else is stupid, porn is an alternative?

 

When your wife tells you she wants to have sex and you tell her you're not in the mood and she asks you if you do get into the mood please wake her up (she waited until 1 am for you to get into the mood) because that would be so sexy and she really wants to be with you and instead you masturbate to porn, porn is the alternative?

 

--

 

It started as a long distance relationship. Eight months later he moved in with me. We had sex about 5-7x a week. He started looking at pornmore and more. He continued to look. As the years progressed the sex life dwindled. It wasn't a priority. It wasn't necessary in the relationship. Every day was a normal hand holding, snuggling, baby-talk, giggles, sweet, loving day except for sex. As soon as sex came up he had no interest and turned to porn as soon as the night came and he was alone.

 

I'm really trying to see how there was something missing that lead him to prefer porn to being with his wife.

 

He said he was addicted, not me. He said he had been looking at porn since he was about nine years old. He said he had seen a trend in his relationships that show him having a normal sex life and then it dwindling as he increased his porn activities. He said he took tests online that showed he was about 65% addicted to porn.

 

He said this. I said I'm tired of asking you to make love to me. I'm tired of being told my fantasies are stupid. I'm tired of you talking to me like a piece of **** every time I bring up you don't touch me but masturbate to porn. I'm tired of going to bed with no sexual intimacy night after night while my husband does his own thing in the basement. I didn't tell him he was addicted.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Olivia_19742004

So when your wife asks you what your fantasies are and you tell her you don't have any and you (the husband) never ask her what hers are the porn is an alternative?

 

When your wife puts on sexy lingerie, tries to unzip your pants or touch you in a suggestive manner and you tell her you're reading a book, porn is an alternative?

 

When your wife tells you she'd like to do [insert fantasy] and you tell her you'd do it but it wouldn't really do anything for you, porn is an alternative?

 

When your wife tells you she'd like to try [insert fantasy] and you tell her that people with fetishes have too much time on their hands and you are really just vanilla because everything else is stupid, porn is an alternative?

 

When your wife tells you she wants to have sex and you tell her you're not in the mood and she asks you if you do get into the mood please wake her up (she waited until 1 am for you to get into the mood) because that would be so sexy and she really wants to be with you and instead you masturbate to porn, porn is the alternative?

You're still confusing sexual contact with sexual intimacy. There was a lack of intimacy, no doubt. Porn is the alternative--as in, his way of coping with the lack of intimacy. It's destructive to see that as a cause.

 

If he really had a sexual addiction, why wasn't it treated? Wouldn't you, as a wife, want to do that for him?

 

I'm speaking academically of course, I'm not interested in analyzing your paticular relationship. It's more scholastic to remain detached.

[Olivia_19742004]

You're still confusing sexual contact with sexual intimacy. There was a lack of intimacy, no doubt.

 

How can you determine there was a lack of intimacy? We talked every day. We snuggled every day. We laughed every day. We discussed our plans every day. We held hands every day. Maybe you should give me an example of sexual intimacy so I can understand the difference. And if using porn was an alternative to the lack of intimacy then why didn't he still want to have sex? If porn wasn't substituted for intimacy it shouldn't have affect his desire to be with a real person.

 

If he really had a sexual addiction, why wasn't it treated? Wouldn't you, as a wife, want to do that for him?

 

He said he was going to see a therapist. He bought a book to read about sexual addiction. He said he was going to stop looking at porn.

 

He kept looking a porn. He lied about it. He didn't read the book. He didn't make an appointment.

 

I said I was leaving.

 

He said he was going to see a therapist. He had a book to read about sexual addiction. He said he was going to stop looking at porn.

 

He kept looking at porn. He lied about it. He didn't read the book. He didn't make an appointment.

 

I said I was leaving it was over.

 

He said he was going to see a therapist. He read the book. He said he was going to stop looking at porn. He made an appointment for the therapist in two weeks.

 

I said I'm not sure I'm staying...

 

This is where we are now. Living in the same house. Separated. Living like husband and wife but living as roommates and dating. It's all so confusing..

[Caroli]

Originally posted by Grinning Maniac

Second, Caroli, you make a critical mistake in your last post by thinking everything revolves around YOU. I'm guessing that happens a lot. Not once in my post did I say she'd be doing it because she WANTS me to **** her brains out. I just said that walking in on my woman doing that would be a turn on, whereas with women concerning men masturbating, it's the exact opposite in most cases.

 

The point of my post was not to say that you thought that she was doing that for you. The point of my post was to show that if that is a turn you on for you that doesn’t matter. She is doing that for her and that is something in which you are not going to participate in most of the cases. You know, she and her vibrator, you are out of the picture. I don't think that she cares if you get turn on by that or not.

 

Originally posted by Grinning Maniac

*Also thanks for proving my point as to why we masturbate as well. Helped a lot.

 

Come on, if [he] is doing that it’s because [he] wants to do it, it’s because that makes [him] feel good, it’s because [he] can get something that maybe you can not give [him] not because you were not there

 

I thought that you were clever enough to recognize that I was using the words that most of the guys use, not my words. Look at all the posts about this issue and you can find exactly those words.

 

I don't know why the words self-centered and selfish come to my mind