During your affair, did the MM/MW tell you they were not having S**

[LilyBart]

Since most of the BS I know acknowledge there was an emotional connection(if in fact there was), I assume you are talking about the BS's you know. I think emotional affairs while devastating, provide less of a opportunity for someone to contract and die of an STD. For me that would have been preferable, though I cannot speak for others.

 

Only if the A-Partners are not being faithful to each other. Yeah, I know that might sound "odd" to you and yes, it sounds like an oxymoron. But such things DO exist. Affair Partners who are faithful to each other.

 

So the BS (while unknowing) is protected sexually.

[Silly_Girl]

It's so sad that so many of the mistresses who are posting here, have a psychological need to "one up" the Betrayed Spouse of their MM, by imagining that they (the mistress that is) is their cheater's "one and only" when it comes to sex.

 

There's no "one-up" in my case. The more time that passes with us out of the affair dynamic, the more I'm understanding how sad and tragic it was that a couple missed out on so much, at such an important stage of their lives.

 

Also, there is fairly frequently posts on the Infidelity board - both genders - about marriages where there's zero (or almost zero) sex. So it happens. I wouldn't assume all these ladies are being fed lines...

[bentnotbroken]

Only if the A-Partners are not being faithful to each other. Yeah, I know that might sound "odd" to you and yes, it sounds like an oxymoron. But such things DO exist. Affair Partners who are faithful to each other.

 

So the BS (while unknowing) is protected sexually.

 

 

I think most BS would rather make that decision for themselves(especially those with children)whether or not being protected sexually is an option by people who are cheating. Since those parties don't get to suffer for the BS or die if that were the case. The fact that some AP are both married certainly leaves the idea that there is no exclusivity.

 

The OW in my situation claimed her spouse cheated, yet she was having sex with him. That by definition not only exposed me to her escapades, but her husband's escapades if he indeed cheated. So it appears as long as AP "believe" they are exclusive it is okay to expose the BS. Interesting concept when you think about what the "real" consequences could be for the one who didn't make the choice and those who lives would be altered by those consequences.

[Rose1977]

Only if the A-Partners are not being faithful to each other. Yeah, I know that might sound "odd" to you and yes, it sounds like an oxymoron. But such things DO exist. Affair Partners who are faithful to each other.

 

So the BS (while unknowing) is protected sexually.

 

 

Oh, this reminds me of the lovely days when OW was harassing me and I told her I wasn't available because I was off to get my STD tests and she told me she could sue me for insinuating someone of her social stature could POSSIBLY have an STD. Then she called my BF at work and told him I was accusing her of having AIDS.

 

I should not have HAD to be worried about where she had been and who she had been with in her life. I should have been able to let those worries go when I entered a committed relationship. No BS feels protected at all whether the A was "monogomous" or not.

[Heart On]

Narcissistic men who cheat,tend to have Madonna/Whore Complexes and lie and betray BOTH women in his life,while he triangulates them both.

Of COURSE he's having sex with his WIFE! My god was I a fool of his making!I was the "Whore" and she was the "Madonna" in his MIND, and he was the Sex addicted Narcissist.Too bad I didn't realize he would have NO respect for me once I gave into his seduction.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=madonna-whore%20complex

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna%E2%80%93whore_complex

 

According to Freudian psychology, this complex often develops when the sufferer is raised by a cold and distant mother. Such a man will often court someone with qualities of his mother, hoping to fulfill a need for intimacy unmet in childhood Often, the wife begins to be seen as mother to the husband a "Madonna]" figure—and thus not a possible object of sexual attraction For this reason, in the mind of the sufferer, love and sex cannot be mixed, and the man is reluctant to have sexual relations with his wife, for that, he thinks subconsciously, would be incest.

He will reserve sexuality for "bad" or "dirty" women, and will not develop "normal" feelings of love in these sexual relationships. This introduces a dilemma where a man may feel unable to love any woman who can satisfy him sexually and is unable to be sexually satisfied by any woman whom he can love.

 

No wonder most of them don't actually LEAVE thier wives....they don't even RESPECT the OW once she has given him what he needs and wants on a temporary basis! And it's no wonder they can't remain faithful to thier wives.

 

So REALLY,if they are not having sex,it's far from the BW's fault and it's far from the OW's responsibility to be "void filler" even if they aren't.

 

I hate how easily I fell for the lines and became his sympathetic sexual accomodater/marriage betraying enabler, not knowing the TRUTH of his relationship,let alone him, until long afterwards.

I actually told him that if HE wasn't having sex at home and using me to get it,why the hell couldn't SHE do the same?

 

HAHAHA...he laughed in my face and said...She would NEVER cheat on me!

Nor would that be acceptable for his 'lil 'Madonna'!

 

What a f*cking hypocrit!

 

She went without sex,because HE was being a selfish prick having sex with me and it was simply elicit enough to turn him on.

 

But it's not like he went without totally at home.She wanted babies and loved a man she didn't even know..

 

 

Oh....not sure how they managed it without sex and all,but she got pregnant while he was pursuing/seducing me.All the worse,while she was pregnant!

 

There is NO NEED to fight over these men ladies!It's the most unhealthy,toxic triangle that creates such pain and humilation for both women while they deny any and all accountablity and "choose" to stay with thier unknowingly betrayed wives thanks to us protecting them.

 

They are losers and the woman who winds up with them is the loser too!

 

I am not into being someone's "go to girl" for forbidden sex and enabling MM to have thier cake and eat it too,but when it was happening,I was TOLD

that they had sex "every other blue moon".That she didn't like oral sex giving or recieving it..Awww...POOR xMM!

 

Wonder why? He was a callous, selfish,irresponsible man and it's a wonder she or I wanted him AT ALL! He actually told me he got "his" and left her hanging.Nice guy.It was only a matter of time before he did the same damn thing to me.

 

Once i realized all of this,I bailed out.It's easy to leave a MM when you know his TRUE COLORS and stop denying the reality of the situation!~

 

Would you knowingly have sex with a MM who WAS having amazing sex with his wife?

 

Not the most convincing line considering what they are IN the affair for is SEX!

 

Let's not be naive!

 

If they wanted a full blown relationship with us,would they keep going home?

 

I don't think so.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Heart On

[Silly_Girl]

Heart On, that must have hurt like HELL. I've often wondered how I would have reacted had my bf been in a sexual relationship with his wife. Or had he even had a marriage-like relationship actually. I'm too sensitive, I think I MAY still have fallen in love, not sure, but I'd have not been able to carry on. I think about that regularly.... If their circumstances/history had been different there would be no us.

[Snowflower]

There have been a few threads on the subject of affair sex lately. I am always a bit puzzled when I read these threads because many OW insist that their relationship with their MM is more than just about sex.

 

But then in the next post there is another OW post talking about the amazing connection during sex and how awesome the sex is, etc. etc.

 

I don't understand the dichotomy. Just how important is the affair sex then?

[Snowflower]

Only if you're doing it to "please" someone and not because you derive pleasure out of the act itself.

 

Then I agree - it's manipulation.

 

Of course there is this little issue about W's having sex when they're not that into it.......shall we call that manipulation as well?

 

 

Never mind...not worth it.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Snowflower

[thissecretgirl]

Just how important is the affair sex then?

 

To me it held the same importance as it would in any of my relationships; extremely important.

[TinaniT]

He did and I did and I still do believe it was the case and everything seems to support that it was the case.

[HappinessSeeker]

I never asked because I didn't want to know the answer which was... yes

[Arrangrl]

Thanks everyone for responding to my thread, as usual interesting points of views.

 

Arran

[waytogo]

No sex. No french kissing. No anything. They TRIED penetrative sex, but aborted it. She had one session with a sex therapist, never went back.

 

Sorry to come so late down the thread with this one. I have to ask Silly, does this MM and his wife have any children? If so, did he tell you it was artificial insemination?

[Silly_Girl]

Sorry to come so late down the thread with this one. I have to ask Silly, does this MM and his wife have any children? If so, did he tell you it was artificial insemination?

 

Naturally there have been no pregnancies.

[waytogo]

I watch porn with him, i know about porn..silly !!

 

He pursues a lot and gets turned down even more.

 

She was giving in for a while, but once again he is deep in the doghouse.. (no or VERY little sex)

 

Did you not read that he DOES tell me when she gives in... He has always been open about this. Yes, sometimes he does get sex from the wife. 100% not nearly as often as he wants or desires. I don't even get mad when she gives in she should be, I would never wish him lack of pleasure..

 

To bad she seems to give him even less emotional attention than sex !!

 

People do require attention you know. If they don't get it yes, they will find someone else to give it !! That's human nature !

 

And NO !! She does not watch porn with him.. She is far to conservative for that !!

 

OK, I'm backing up again. He speaks of his desire to have sex, WITH HER, "100 %" more than it happens. HE DESIRES SEX WITH HER, get it? You are putting all your emotion into this guy who wants to have sex with someone other than you (wife or not)?

 

Also, did you put a picture of yourself on this forum while telling this story? Is this a case of trying to get caught? Yeah, DD's turn out so well for everyone From everything I've read from you, you would be SO thrown under the bus, and backed over several times.

[26pointblue]

There have been a few threads on the subject of affair sex lately. I am always a bit puzzled when I read these threads because many OW insist that their relationship with their MM is more than just about sex.

 

But then in the next post there is another OW post talking about the amazing connection during sex and how awesome the sex is, etc. etc.

 

I don't understand the dichotomy. Just how important is the affair sex then?

 

I'm not sure if you're talking about my post about the sex & connection with xMM. For me both were important- the physical & emotional- & I think each fueled the other. Hope this helps.

[Snowflower]

I'm not sure if you're talking about my post about the sex & connection with xMM. For me both were important- the physical & emotional- & I think each fueled the other. Hope this helps.

 

No, I wasn't talking about your post-I don't think I saw it.

 

This is what I am trying to understand...sometimes there will be posts written that say the MM is in the affair just for sex. This type of statement obviously upsets the OW because face it, no one want to be a booty call when they have feelings involved. I completely understand that.

 

However, there are always many posts in this forum and lately a lot of threads where OW are "gushing" (sorry, bad word I know) about how incredible the affair sex was with the MM. There was an amazing connection or the sex was the best ever or they really miss the sex when the affair ends.

 

Okay, so which is it? Is the affair about the amazing sex or not?

[waytogo]

I'm not sure if you're talking about my post about the sex & connection with xMM. For me both were important- the physical & emotional- & I think each fueled the other. Hope this helps.

 

I can relate to this. For a while, xMM and I had both. The not being able to take him to parties, take him to family gatherings, go to his parties... think you get the drift; washed out both in the long run.

 

He didn't want to end our, I think I'm through calling it a relationship, so fling? Gee, wonder why . He had a guaranteed date to all the above gatherings and more. Also had a great homemaker and still a decent wage earner, and icing, me! What I didn't have in the situation caught up, and I am so greatful I pushed away my fears and chose the unknown for what little was a guarantee for me. It took being out of it to see what a very tired routine it was.

[Silly_Girl]

Okay, so which is it? Is the affair about the amazing sex or not?

 

Snowflower, does it have to BE about the sex, or NOT be about the sex?

Can sex be another important factor?

 

For me the sexual connection was unlike anything I'd ever known, yet my ex and I had a pretty fun sex life and I certainly never went short of orgasms. This was different, it ran deeper and we definitely grew sexually, together.

 

It was important but by no means the defining factor.

[26pointblue]

No, I wasn't talking about your post-I don't think I saw it.

 

This is what I am trying to understand...sometimes there will be posts written that say the MM is in the affair just for sex. This type of statement obviously upsets the OW because face it, no one want to be a booty call when they have feelings involved. I completely understand that.

 

However, there are always many posts in this forum and lately a lot of threads where OW are "gushing" (sorry, bad word I know) about how incredible the affair sex was with the MM. There was an amazing connection or the sex was the best ever or they really miss the sex when the affair ends.

 

Okay, so which is it? Is the affair about the amazing sex or not?

 

I think that amazing sex usually comes with the territory of an affair. Both people feel good & excited & like things are new & forbidden etc. And then there is an intense emotional connection. I'm talking about the kind of affairs that most OW/OM who come to LS are having . . . ones that feel super serious & in love & they want to be together etc. Usually there is an amazing physical & emotional connection [although this is usually built on a fantasy/superficial, temporary things, but it feels very real], & so yes, an affair is usually about amazing sex, & also about an amazing emotional connection.

 

I don't think these things are as simple as they seem. In the beginning I thought I only wanted to have sex with my xMM & he thought he only wanted to have sex with me. But looking back in retrospect & with knowledge gained, I see that we had a very intense emotional connection before we ever hooked up. He put himself out there emotionally because he was unhappy, & I did the same, & so what we thought was about a desire for sex was really about fulfilling some other inner longing . . . & so that made the sex great, & the emotional connection great, & we were in a heap of trouble emotionally & couldn't have put it into a 'sex' box even if we wanted to [& at times we did want to, & tried, but it didn't work for either of us].

[Breezy Trousers]

It's not possible to know whether AP is having sex with BS or not.

 

The only source for that information would be AP, whose participation in an affair already demonstrates a willingness to lie on a routine basis.

 

It's natural to want to think highly of people we love, but to have so much faith in someone who is routinely lying is naive and perhaps self-serving.

 

In 2001, it came out in therapy that my husband told his AP that we weren't having sex. Total lie, of course. He told our therapist that telling OW was just "because." Eventually the truth came out: Telling AP that we didn't have sex made her feel sorry for him, so she wanted to take care of him by showing him how much better she was than me. The affair began.

 

Manipulation.

 

He also told her things about me. Reason I know this is because he told me things about her after the affair ended -- very unflattering, vulnerable things about her body, lovemaking, etc. .... Who knows if this was true? He won't discuss it anymore ... He was early in recovery (10 years ago) when he spoke of OW this way. He was desperately trying to "heal" our marriage by telling me what a loser she was compared to me, not realizing it was also showing me how much he tried to join with OW by similarly attacking me during his affair ... That was also another ugly thing we had to address in therapy.

 

So he was manipulating her as much as me. He's embarrassed by that now, of course. He's been helping other people with this same issue -- sex addiction -- for a decade. No one he works with is proud of what they did to get what they wanted, but they have to tell the truth about it to heal.

 

When I was in EA with MM, I told MYSELF the story that he didn't have connection and therefore probably didn't have sex with his wife. I had no real proof of that fact, besides seeing them interact once. It was just something my mind wanted to believe. Delusion. It would have been worse if MM aided & abetted me in my distorted thinking... As it was, I could only blame myself when I realized how self-serving that assumption was. Love fog isn't rational, though.

 

Also, I think I felt bad about the situation I was in -- attracted to another woman's husband. Thinking MM had a bad marriage rationalized/justified my participation in that.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Breezy Trousers

[Silly_Girl]

It's not possible to know whether AP is having sex with BS or not.

 

You could say it's not possible to believe anything anyone in the world ever tells you, unless you see it with your own eyes.

 

But you can, with all things taken in context, be pretty sure, on the balance of probabilities. Some MMs never stop spewing bull-S, others don't tell lies, then you've got all the range in between.

 

I say the situation is one to be cynical about, but a year and a half later there's not one thing to suggest I've been lied to on this and plenty to support that he was telling the truth. I know that's often not the case and I think it must be one of the hardest things to come to terms with, in an affair scenario.

[thissecretgirl]

When I was the BS, my husband and I didnt have sex and believe me, I tried. So I guess if he was telling his OW this he would have been telling the truth.

[SoMovinOn]

I know my mOW has sex with her H. I fully expect her to. If she didn't, he would become suspicious. The first thing most married guys seem to think when their wife loses interest in them is that she must be getting it somewhere else. It never occurs to them that perhaps it is there own lack of romance that leads her to not want them.

 

Married men make married women easy targets for guys who are looking for an affair.

[Breezy Trousers]

But you can, with all things taken in context, be pretty sure, on the balance of probabilities. Some MMs never stop spewing bull-S, others don't tell lies, then you've got all the range in between.

 

Silly, I completely agree with you that there is a range there.

 

However, in the end, it's impossible to know the truth unless you're actually in the experience. As outsiders, the only thing we can know is our story about someone else's marriage. Sometimes our story can be in alignment with reality, but sometimes not. We can't possibly know.