Wife leaving?

[disco9000]

My wife had an affair with a family friend in September last year. She told me about it in October, saying they had just kissed but that she had strong feelings for him. We have always had a good relationship but had been going through a rough patch where I was pushing for more sex and intimacy and then sulking when I didn't get it. After almost leaving, she decided to stay with me and broke it off with him.

 

We've been trying to make it work since then but she's remained reluctant as far as sex is concerned and admits to still struggling with her feelings for this guy. She is now saying that she doesn't think she can go on with this constant pain in her heart.

 

She sees me as her best friend but I don't think she's that physically or emotionally attracted to me. Sex has never been high on her list of priorities so maybe she never has been.

 

We got together 20 years ago, when we were just 15, and have 4 amazing children. The youngest is 6 and the children growing up has left a big hole for her. She's also starting to feel that she's not so young any more and wonders if this is a mid-life crisis for her. We've both only really had this one relationship so are struggling to interpret our feelings.

 

This has been the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with by a long way. What should I do?

[jstobo]

What you need to do is going to be the hardest thing you've ever had to do in your life. You need to let her go. I'm not saying, get divorced. You need to let her go figure this out on her own without you by her side. Many people will tell you to adopt the 180 rules. Somebody will probably post them for you. It's basically don't beg or plead, don't talk about the relationship, take care of yourself and your kids. I spent 6 months not doing the 180 and didn't get anywhere. I adopted the 180 philosophy and a week later, my W started coming back. We still have a lot of work ahead of us. But she couldn't figure out what she was losing or leaving behind until I let her go. Luckily she figured it out pretty quick. My W also had another guy involved emotionally, not physically.

 

Take care of your kids

Take care of yourself

Let her do what she needs to do, she is going to anyway

 

If she crosses lines you can't let her come back from, that is your decision to make. Trust me, she is going to cross those lines or not cross those lines no matter what you do. I'm not a bitter betrayed spouse. I'm taking responsibility on what drove my W away and I'm taking action to be the man she originally fell in love with. But I'm at the point mentally, I can go either way. I want her back, but I now know I can live without her. I really believe this 180 thing is a way for you to strengthen yourself in case it doesn't work out, but also give you the best possible chance to win her back. If that's what you want.

[Surfer203]

I can relate to the lack of sex thing.. and the feelings of trying to be intimate and the wife not wanting, feeling bad afterwards and sulking. I know that all too well. My wife said the same crap "I see you as my best friend" - your response should be.. I would hope so, we are married for heaven's sake! That is primary.. everything else that comes with it is secondary. You marry some one primarily because they are your best friend.

 

180 is a good idea. Not talking about the relationship is a good idea. I am trying to reconcile with my wife currently.. when I talk about the relationship and worry about little crap all the time it irritates her. You need to just live and let it go. Things will work out one way or another.

[disco9000]

Thanks for the pointer. I've read up quite a bit on plan A and plan B but hadn't seen the 180 degree rules before. I seem to have intuitively adopted that attitude over the last day or so.

 

I have been trying to do plan A and be the best I can for the past 6 months but, while she recognises the effort, it doesn't seem to have changed her feelings, although things have slowly improved.

 

I knew that I might have to cut her loose completely and go no contact at some point and that's what I'll do if/when it comes to it. While the current situation hurts a lot, I know that I'll be OK whether she stays or not.

 

After her comments earlier in the week I have backed off and am starting to mentally cut her loose. She said she's sorry for everything and tried to cuddle me this morning and does seem to be a bit less convinced that she is leaving today compared to yesterday.

 

I need to read more on 180 because I'm not sure how to respond to positive actions from her at this point (while she still has obvious feelings for this other guy). Do I remain cool or cuddle her back with intent?

[disco9000]

Yeah, I think not talking about the relationship at this stage is good advice. Every time it came up over the past 6 months (usually initiated by me) it resulted in her feeling worse. I don't want to risk bringing her down any further at this point.

[jstobo]

Thanks for the pointer. I've read up quite a bit on plan A and plan B but hadn't seen the 180 degree rules before. I seem to have intuitively adopted that attitude over the last day or so.

 

I have been trying to do plan A and be the best I can for the past 6 months but, while she recognises the effort, it doesn't seem to have changed her feelings, although things have slowly improved.

 

I knew that I might have to cut her loose completely and go no contact at some point and that's what I'll do if/when it comes to it. While the current situation hurts a lot, I know that I'll be OK whether she stays or not.

 

After her comments earlier in the week I have backed off and am starting to mentally cut her loose. She said she's sorry for everything and tried to cuddle me this morning and does seem to be a bit less convinced that she is leaving today compared to yesterday.

 

I need to read more on 180 because I'm not sure how to respond to positive actions from her at this point (while she still has obvious feelings for this other guy). Do I remain cool or cuddle her back with intent?

 

All I can do here is answer according to my own experience. After D day, I went through all kinds of emotions. Somedays I would have total sadness, anger or hate. Other days I would have hope and feelings of being madly in love. When I was positive, she was positive back. The longer I was positive, the more she reached out. Unfortunately the anger would take over from what happened and we would go back to square 1. If I could go back to D day, I think I would have been nice, but adopted the 180 technique. If she reached out to me, then I would respond positively, but not change the 180.

 

If you're W is trying to cuddle with you, that tells me she is conflicted. If she was done, you would be the last person she wanted to cuddle with. That is a small positive sign. During these last 6 months, I have realized my W didn't feel loved by me for the past 3 years. I contributed to her getting to where she got. She has to own her decisions after she got there. She chose not to come to me and tell me how serious things were. She chose to get involved with an old college friend emotionally. But, she still really loves me. I need to prove to her that I love her and will work on the things I contributed. I want to be real careful and not fill you with hope because every situation is different.

 

How have you treated her over the last 2 or 3 years? Is there any way, she wasn't feeling loved by you for quite some time? My W has felt she was never going to be a good enough W for me. She gave up trying. Is there any possibility of something like that? You may have to look deep. I'm trying to get you to a point that took me six months. Do you have any insecurity or anger issues?

[Surfer203]

jstobo brings up some good points. The rollercoaster of emotions is the worst, you don't know how you will feel one day to another.

 

Look for signs from your Wife but do NOT over analyze every word/action. That is what I have been doing and it is driving me crazy for no reason. Take everything in as a whole, do not dissect it all.

[disco9000]

"she wasn't feeling loved by you for quite some time? My W has felt she was never going to be a good enough W for me"

 

I think that has a lot to do with it. There's always been a big difference in the amount of intimacy and sex we've both needed. Perhaps not for the first few years, but certainly for most of our marriage.

 

I used to be disappointed but would accept it and remain upbeat. About 5 years ago, I started to feel resentment. Her rejection of intimacy started to feel very much like a rejection of me. If I'm honest, it hit my self esteem and I became angry and sulky. I stopped talking and laughing with her.

 

We got to the point where I was angry and she was already rejecting me before we even got started. She felt a lot of pressure from me and, exactly as you said, felt she was never going to be good enough.

 

I honestly didn't see it while it was happening. After I found out about the affair, I took a good look at myself and have made big changes.

 

I told her to forget about sex, that she could take as much time as she wanted. After a few months I started to approach her gently and have continued that since then...always smiling and backing off if she wasn't comfortable.

 

Unfortunately, 9 times out of 10 she will feel awkward, so I back off and she then feels bad. It seems to reinforce the feeling that she's not with the right person.

[jstobo]

"she wasn't feeling loved by you for quite some time? My W has felt she was never going to be a good enough W for me"

 

I think that has a lot to do with it. There's always been a big difference in the amount of intimacy and sex we've both needed. Perhaps not for the first few years, but certainly for most of our marriage.

 

I used to be disappointed but would accept it and remain upbeat. About 5 years ago, I started to feel resentment. Her rejection of intimacy started to feel very much like a rejection of me. If I'm honest, it hit my self esteem and I became angry and sulky. I stopped talking and laughing with her.

 

We got to the point where I was angry and she was already rejecting me before we even got started. She felt a lot of pressure from me and, exactly as you said, felt she was never going to be good enough.

 

I honestly didn't see it while it was happening. After I found out about the affair, I took a good look at myself and have made big changes.

 

I told her to forget about sex, that she could take as much time as she wanted. After a few months I started to approach her gently and have continued that since then...always smiling and backing off if she wasn't comfortable.

 

Unfortunately, 9 times out of 10 she will feel awkward, so I back off and she then feels bad. It seems to reinforce the feeling that she's not with the right person.

 

OMG, the parallels are unreal here. My W and I have lived apart for two months now. This has really helped the two of us. It's also been horrible, but I think it could save our marriage.

 

I really hope ShatteredReality hops into this thread, because she is your W and my W in this story. Keep doing what you're doing. Keep letting her find her voice, her identity, her legacy in life. Support her in every way you can and put yourself second. Still protect yourself and adopt the 180. If she reaches out, respond positively. If she doesn't, still respond positively (that last bit of advice is my greatest challenge). You may wake up one morning and realize you really don't want to be with her. Who knows. Until then, be nice, kind and supportive. You can't go wrong doing that. In fact, give yourself a goal. Maybe 14 days. If you reach the goal, reward yourself with something. I don't know. I'm thinking out loud. I need to go have my first therapy session to hopefully deal with my insecurity and anger issues. BTW, my W is very excited I'm doing this.

 

Keep updating!!

[Surfer203]

After my wife came back, we were not intimate for about 2 months because she felt "weird". It is totally understandable. In your situation it sounds like it had been going on for a long time. The only thing I can think of is, figure out what it takes to make your wife comfortable and feel wanted and desired. Be smooth. Anger issues will repel your wife like kryptonite. If she does not feel comfortable or safe, intimacy and/or a normal relationship will never happen. Mellow out, see a therapist, relieve some stress.

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[disco9000]

Surfer, what you say about over analysing is timely. I'm generally able to keep that under control but yesterday was the first time in months that my wife went out by herself. She's avoided doing that because I would worry that she's meeting up with the other guy, so she's either spent time with me or gone out with her parents.

 

I thought I could sense that something was different about her last night and checked her phone to find that she'd sent 7 texts to this guy and it looks like she's had 2 in return (I don't know the contents, just how many messages). I think the guy's out of town at the moment so, for what it's worth, I doubt they met up. It's the first time in a couple of months that she's texted him. I'm gutted and half inclined to give up and really move on.

 

I'm trying to decide what to do next. Plan A seemed to help her feel enough for me to stick around and things even improved. Recently though, it hasn't been enough. After she told me she was struggling with her feelings, I switched to 180 and she has responded by being equally cool towards me and then texting this guy. She might have texted him anyway, but it feels like a warmer approach works better (of course, Plan A also talks about being strong and not needy so I've been doing that part of 180 all along).

 

I think I'm going to tell her that she seemed different yesterday and ask her if she's been in contact with the other guy. I'll let you know what she says.

[Surfer203]

disco9000: We need to talk further about this.. our situations are kind of similar at the moment. Except I am almost positive that my wife is not talking to the OM.

 

What my wife is doing that is similar is.. she did not go out for months for my own good. She waited until I told her I was comfortable. Now she has gone out quite a few times and it makes me nervous. Do I have a reason to be? Probably not,but it is still causing me to worry.

 

Your wife has already crossed the line by texting the other dude. I think you need to confront her and not p**** foot around.

 

I was going to say don't read in to what she does too much - it will drive both of you crazy but seeing as she had texted him, bring it!

[disco9000]

I have just spoken to my wife. I asked how her trip to into town and walk with the dog went yesterday. She said she had been trying to get a bit of breathing space. I said she'd seemed distant last night and asked whether she'd been in contact with the other guy.

 

She replied no, but it was a weak no...I think deliberately so. I asked her again and her reply was an even weaker no. I said "so that's a yes then" and she said nothing. I said we should just drop it. She would normally be glad to avoid any further discussion but kept talking. She said she was trying to feel the good things between us, that she enjoyed yesterday with the family, that these feelings might just be a blip that she needs to get over.

 

Yeah, right. Looking at the number of messages sent and received it looks like this guy blew her out. I know he'll come round though...he's a single 41 year old with nothing better to do. I'll check later to see if there's been any more texting today.

 

I didn't call her on it because I don't want her to know that I can see when she sends and receives text messages just yet. It's my only true measure of the truth. I need to think more about how to move forward with this.

 

I went out shopping this morning and bought some new clothes...it's something I've been doing quite a bit lately. When she came back from work, before I asked her about yesterday, she said "Oh, you've been shopping...by yourself??" in a 'I wanted to come' kind of way. You know what, maybe 180 is the way to go.

 

Surfer, you're right...we should talk more. I don't really feel qualified to suggest much at this stage but would say that, until yesterday (while my wife still wasn't talking to the OM), I found taking the long view helped me to relax about the situation. Basically, as burned spouses, we are watching our other halves like hawks so, if they are up to no good, they are going to get caught out at some point. The fact that they haven't been caught yet means can we assume the best, treat them nice and keep the positive momentum while continuing to watch carefully and remaining prepared for it to all go wrong.

[Owl]

OK...please don't take this as an attack, but an observation.

 

You KNOW she's been in contact with OM.

 

She as much as admitted it yesterday...and then you backed down, changed the subject, avoided the conflict...and bought her clothes today???

 

You're rewarding her negative behavior.

 

What you're doing will UNDERMINE any respect she may have for you.

 

The more she can keep doing what she's been doing...the more she can walk all over you and treat you like a doormat and you do nothing to defend yourself or your marriage...the more respect she loses for you.

 

And a woman cannot remain in love with a man she can't respect.

 

A woman CAN respect...and fall in love with...a man who will fight for himself, for her, for his marriage.

 

Stop being afraid.

 

Stop giving her the decision making power.

 

Take that power back, and start INSISTING on what you need to recover your marriage...or move on and divorce if that's the only choice you've got.

 

But STOP letting her benefit from her actions/behaviors.

 

Surfer can tell you what that gets...and can tell you what happens when you start setting boundaries and enforcing them.

[robf1971]

OK...please don't take this as an attack, but an observation.

 

You KNOW she's been in contact with OM.

 

She as much as admitted it yesterday...and then you backed down, changed the subject, avoided the conflict...and bought her clothes today???

 

You're rewarding her negative behavior.

 

What you're doing will UNDERMINE any respect she may have for you.

 

The more she can keep doing what she's been doing...the more she can walk all over you and treat you like a doormat and you do nothing to defend yourself or your marriage...the more respect she loses for you.

 

And a woman cannot remain in love with a man she can't respect.

 

A woman CAN respect...and fall in love with...a man who will fight for himself, for her, for his marriage.

 

Stop being afraid.

 

Stop giving her the decision making power.

 

Take that power back, and start INSISTING on what you need to recover your marriage...or move on and divorce if that's the only choice you've got.

 

But STOP letting her benefit from her actions/behaviors.

 

Surfer can tell you what that gets...and can tell you what happens when you start setting boundaries and enforcing them.

 

Ignore this advice at your peril OP

[Surfer203]

When my wife came back luckily I did not have to put down to many boundries, she just naturally chose to respect me and do things slowly. Now that we have some confidence back she gets out more on her own and I MOSTLY trust her. There will always be a little worry there.

 

Here is what I suggest, tell her what YOU want, what YOU expect. Texting this guy is not acceptable. If she will not stop texting him then you need to let her know you are not willing to be option B. You are being to delicate with her. She is doing wrong and you are letting it happen, don't!

[disco9000]

Thanks for the input Owl. There might be some confusion. I didn't buy her clothes, I bought myself clothes. And I didn't back down, I postponed the discussion because this is a 20 year marriage with 4 children involved and I want to make sure I handle this right.

 

Having said that, you're right of course. I am afraid. But it looks like it's time for her to leave and me to go no-contact. Guess it's gonna get even rougher from here on.

[Surfer203]

If your boundries are not being respected, she needs to step off and get her head together. Things will get tough but lean on family/friends/us here for support. I got through it.. every one eventually does. Just know this is not the end, but actually the beginning.

[Owl]

Sorry for the confusion on the clothes.

 

Please realize I understand where you're coming from.

 

My wife had an EA several years ago, when we still had four teenaged children living at home.

 

I understand your desire to 'do it right'.

 

But I want to warn you not to be so cautious that you undermine your own work to reconcile/rebuild your marriage.

 

I've been through this myself, and simply hoping to provide you a little input from someone who's on the "other side" of this...the benefit of what it took for OUR marriage to recover from something similar.

 

Don't postpone resolving issues too much, or too long. It begins to look like a sign of conflict avoidance and weakness...neither of which are attractive to your spouse.

[disco9000]

Thanks everyone for the input. It's very much appreciated.

 

Well, it's done. I saw her checking her phone as soon as I left the room so I confronted her again and she admitted to the texts straight away. She said she was still trying to decide whether to stay or go.

 

I told her that it was over. That I wasn't going to be with her while she was treating me and our marriage this way. I said I wanted her to move out tonight.

 

She looked resigned and agreed, saying she doesn't have the energy to fight her feelings for the OM any more.

 

I'm numb and am not looking forward to the feelings that are going to hit me later.

[Owl]

OK, if that's her choice, then let her start dealing with the consequences of her choice immediately.

 

Where is she moving out to? She needs to make sure that her mom/dad/OM/whomever will be able to cover her financially, because she should realize that you're going to have to continue to cover for your FAMILY...not her.

 

Personally, I'd cut her off financially. Remove her from joint accounts, have her immediately get her car/cell phone/etc... all moved into her name only...TODAY.

 

If she can't fight her feelings...that's her choice...but if she no longer "feels" married, there's no reason she should reap the benefits of being married to you. Remove them immediately. Let OM "feed her needs" for a while. Odds are, he's not prepared for that, and she'll very quickly start to realize what she's done.

 

Contact a lawyer ASAP, make sure you know your legal rights as they apply in your state.

[disco9000]

I assume she's going to stay with the OM.

 

We have talked about the financial side previously...about how we release equity from the house for her. She's going to live off the proceeds of that for a while, along with the support of OM. I need to be careful here because she has said this is all her fault and is asking for less than she's legally entitled to. If it comes to it, she could probably force me to sell the house, or even kick me out and claim the house until the kids are 18. It may yet come to that but there's no malice on her side at the moment so I'm treading carefully.

 

Bizzarely, she's just taken our son to one of his clubs, and plans to stay and help out. WTF! Where the hell is her head? I really don't think she has thought this through.

 

I'm avoiding talking to her before she goes but I wouldn't be surprised if she comes to me later and says she can't leave and wants to give it another go. She did this before when I found out they were texting back in March. I let her stay and we gave it a good go for the past few months but it obviously wasn't enough.

 

I want it to work out with her so much but it's starting to dawn on me that I probably need to let her go for good now. How many chances can she have? Then again, I'm not sure the reality of this situation has EVER really hit her. Maybe she's remained in the fog the whole time.

 

Do I force her out tonight regardless of her wanting to stay, or is it better to let her stay if she wants to? Arghhhh, can't think straight.

[Surfer203]

Wow.. man. She has done it - let her go. She is not thinking straight. So she needs to get the F out and live her own life and not depend on you anymore. She has lost a lot, I am sure you are a good guy. This will hit her like a ton of bricks. Do not let her stay... she made her decision time for her to move on. Do not get in an altercation though, be careful.

 

Like Owl says.. the OM will probably not able to take care of her financially.. like in my situation the guy was a loser.. my unemployed wife bought him a plan ticket, signed for a lease, etc. because he was broke and a human leach. It is a financial burden to take care of another.. chances are he is not ready for it.

 

Take care of your kids, keep your head on straight and focus on them. You will get through this.

[Surfer203]

Lock down all finances right away.. my wife was using our credit card and not paying me back.