Do old fashioned (single) men still exist out there?

[Woggle]

What about successful women who stand to lose a lot, too, should they marry and end up in a divorce? Without meaning to sound arrogant, there are many of us who have worked very hard from an early age to support ourselves, make a good living, own a nice home, have a retirement and pension plan in place. We also stand to lose a lot should things go south. Here in Canada (not sure about the U.S.) if you live together (common-law) and split, the same rules apply as if you were married and divorcing. Do I want to take a chance and lose my home or half of the equity in it? Or potentially have to pay alimony because the chances are good my future husband will make less than me? It's not just men who are at risk.

 

They are to an extent but there is not a walkaway husband epidemic and successful women are generally protected by the courts.

[ladyinlimbo]

Being a stay at home mom is honorable, but the time to make such a choice for a girl is in her teens. When a woman has had a few hundred hookups, several live in relationships (as the op admitted to having one) and suddenly wants to be "traditional" after having decades of fun, no man will go for that.

 

The fact is, many women find their looks have faded and now want to "settle down" with someone. Why didn't they do this at 18? It's simply the wrong time. She has made her choice, now she gets to live it.

 

Says who, says you? Who elected you to be the final word on what men will "go for"? A little arrogant to profess to speak for all of them.

 

What about the men? You think all of these men are chaste virgins? Who's to say they haven't had plenty of hook-ups or live-in situations? Sometimes both genders grow and evolve and change over time. An 18 yr old woman is hardly ready to be settling down. People have the RIGHT to change their views and lifestyle as they get older. Could the chip on your shoulder toward women be any larger? Why so much hostility? We all have a past, even you do. You talk like a woman in her early 30s is a used-up has been who is of no worth or value. Who $h*t in your cornflakes, seriously?

[carhill]

When I read the words of the young men here, my heart sinks. They grew up in a family somewhere. They saw examples. They were socialized. They have dated women. They have heard stories from friends and family. They have perhaps experienced some of it themselves. It's tough being an old-fashioned man in a modern world. Disheartening sometimes. I feel for them. The good news is that it's possible, at the other end, to get out of it with one's sanity and at least some modicum of integrity intact. TBH, if I hadn't 'given in' to societal norms, and continued along the 'old-fashioned' path, I likely would have gone insane. Hope you (guys) can find a healthy middle ground.

 

OP, I hope you find some peace in solitude with your child and work on your people-picker to better select a compatible mate. Sometimes you are fortunate early; sometimes it's a life-long process. In any event, you have only one life. Make it count.

[Jazzari]

I am 32, pretty (I am told), intelligent and fun. I seem to date a LOT of jerks though. They always seem nice at first... too perfect almost. Then I date them for a few years and they turn out to be cheaters or scary control freaks-

 

My question: Are there still single men out there in their 30s who have Christian morals and make enough money to support a wife and children? I want to raise my children myself. I don't want to be faced with choosing between paying attention to a career or my children. I am not a gold digger. I just want to live comfortably, keep a tidy house, spoil my husband and be a great mother. 40 years ago this is was how things were. Women who wanted to stay home weren't considered to be lazy. It seems all the men I know are underemployed and don't really care to be doing better. They expect women to do everything around the house and raise the kids and make all the money. That isn't the life I want.

 

Words of encouragement anyone? I am losing hope? Where have all the old fashioned good men gone

 

The original poster has already told us that she has been in a bunch of failed, short term relationships. Now, suddenly, she wants a "traditional" man, after a lifetime of rejecting such men in favor of the fun with the bad boys.

 

So it is the original poster who has told us the facts, and I am here to tell her that she is not wrong. This is the way it works. Traditional men do not want middle age party girls who suddenly look for someone to support them now that they're too old to get the attention they once got.

 

Life is tough. Get used to it.

A few years per relationship is hardly short term. You make it sound like she is bouncing from one man to the next, month to month. She is trying to find a good man. As many here can testify, good mates are hard to find. She said they seemed nice at first - doesn't sound like she favors bad boys.

 

32 isn't exactly middle aged and nowhere did I see even a hint that she was a party girl.

 

Your ability to read "facts" seems to be lacking.

[carhill]

FTR, *I'm* 'middle aged'. The OP could be my daughter

[carhill]

Oh, cr@p, I'm 'over the hill' now! Hope there's not too many rocks on the way down

[lovingADove]

These discussions are getting ridiculous. Maybe it is time to go back to the times, where women were married in their teen years to old rich men... and were forced to remain in these relationships ...

 

By the way, there are still cultures in the world (including the USA), where this is common practice. If I remember properly, there is a Mormon group somewhere in Utah, where polygamy is common practice and women are married in their teen years to old grumpy men...

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Did she really say that all divorced men are child rapists?

 

Okay, I'm never trusting anything that comes out of Jaz's fingertips anymore.

[Jazzari]

Earlier you characterized all divorced men as child rapists, so it is you who has some sort of psychological problem. I note with amusement you never retracted as much. My dad got divorced, he never raped any children. Most of the men here who have been divorced never raped a little girl either. I'd imagine you need to apologize to your peers on this forum now.

You need serious help. My sarcastic reply to your insulting post was not in any way an accusation to the men on this forum. As you well know. If that's the way you read posts then I guess you were talking about me (and all the other divorced women here) when you said that women who get divorced do it because they are bored and want to steal the man's money and kidnap his children. I really must learn to take things more personally.

 

Some women are golddiggers and take a man to the cleaners. Some men are cheaters and bang the babysitter. Unlike you, I don't see this as the rule, but as the exception.

 

Oh - and I've blocked you. You said I was creepy, but you are seriously freaking me out at this point.

 

Back to the topic at hand, now that you've personalized and sexualized it in the creepiest of all possible ways, the time to look for a traditional life is in your early adulthood. Being traditional entails *tradition*, that is, a historical precedent of keeping a traditional lifestyle. One doesn't come into tradition for convenience sake after abandoning it. Hope this helps you understand the simple concept. Take care.

Yeah, you're kinda freaking me out too. So I'm "divorcing" you, lol. *blocked*

[Jazzari]

Did she really say that all divorced men are child rapists?

 

Okay, I'm never trusting anything that comes out of Jaz's fingertips anymore.

NO!! I didn't say that at all!! The guy's a nut job.

 

Here's the post. Judge for yourself but that is NOT what I said or what I meant.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3413447&postcount=18

[sagetalk]

 

1. Old fashioned good men generally don't 'shack up' in an unmarried state. That's a parameter you can easily monitor and filter for.

 

2. 'But too many women love jerks, maybe I can get some pointers from your man so I can find a gf too.'

 

3.During those years, many years ago, I recall only too well the windburn I felt from the gale force of multitudes of women blowing by to get at the 'real men', one of whom you outlined in that thread. It was truly disheartening.

 

1. I couldn't agree more. An old fashion guy would never shack up after 1 month, never.

 

2. It's not rocket science, it just makes shaving in the mirror harder.

 

3. I've never changed (old fashion to say the least), women for the most part hate it. They say they love it but most don't. At the end of the day they want you to nail them in a few dates, move in with them, and then get married before the bastard baby is born.

 

I wish it wasn't so, but I've hardly seen anything in my life, other's lives, or this forum to lead me to a different conclusion.

[Disillusioned]

I am 32, pretty (I am told), intelligent and fun. I seem to date a LOT of jerks though. They always seem nice at first... too perfect almost. Then I date them for a few years and they turn out to be cheaters or scary control freaks-

 

My question: Are there still single men out there in their 30s who have Christian morals and make enough money to support a wife and children? I want to raise my children myself. I don't want to be faced with choosing between paying attention to a career or my children. I am not a gold digger. I just want to live comfortably, keep a tidy house, spoil my husband and be a great mother. 40 years ago this is was how things were. Women who wanted to stay home weren't considered to be lazy. It seems all the men I know are underemployed and don't really care to be doing better. They expect women to do everything around the house and raise the kids and make all the money. That isn't the life I want.

 

Words of encouragement anyone? I am losing hope? Where have all the old fashioned good men gone

 

I'm no Christian and I'll never have kids, but I don't dig any of this modern day single game-playing nonsense.

[Jazzari]

3. I've never changed (old fashion to say the least), women for the most part hate it. They say they love it but most don't. At the end of the day they want you to nail them in a few dates, move in with them, and then get married before the bastard baby is born.

I married an old fashioned man and we had a great life together. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want anything else.

 

I know people have been hurt and burned. I have only to look at my brother to see the effects from a bad woman. But to never love again? I couldn't live like that.

[musemaj11]

That was uncalled for. Being a stay at home mom is a very honorable and respectable choice in life. Guys can't complain that there are no traditional women and then devalue the meaningful work that they do. The problem is that too many women have used up and spit out men in the provider role and that is why there are afraid to take it on.

Yes being a homemaker is an honorable thing.

 

But if you don't wanna have a career, don't go to school. Let the money be allocated to a male who is actually going to be the provider.

[carhill]

Old fashioned doesn't have to be as stereotypical as it might otherwise seem. I'll offer my 'Beaver Cleaver' datapoint.

 

Dear old dad was a young man with a family when Hitler decided to turn the world upside down back in the late 30's. He answered the call to duty and went to Europe like millions of other men from many countries. While on duty, he got a 'dear John' letter from his wife telling him she was leaving and divorcing him and taking his children. I've read the letters (he saved them) so I know the details of a family I would never know.

 

He luckily survived, returned home and dealt with the aftermath of his family breakup, going so far to have the marriage annulled in the church so he could remarry within his faith. He paid child support to daughters he would never again see (I saw the canceled checks) and evidently greatly cherished the cards and letters (which he kept until his death) from them. He did not speak of nor complain about any of this. I knew none of it until after his death, and I was already an adult. I did know I had half-sisters but that was all.

 

He later met my mom, who was a successful and independent early 30's working lady who became acquainted with him by selling him a suit. He kept going back and buying suits until she agreed to 'go out' with him. Later, they married and, prior to tricycle boy being born, mutually decided (my mom told me this) that she would be a SAHM. That is what they did and she did not 'work' in any significant income producing capacity until after his death 32 years later.

 

The lessons I learned by osmosis were that people face challenges in life and they have choices as to how they deal with and process those challenges. 'Old-fashioned' can describe many things. For myself, it describes one path, the one I know. For others, their path.

 

In another time, in another society, after each facing personal and societal challenges (like WW2), my mother was about the same age as the OP when she met my father. As she was a quite attractive young lady, I'm sure she entertained the attentions of men while in her 20's and, typical of her generation, a lady keeps her discretion, though she would much later in life tell me about a couple of 'romances' she experienced. Her love and commitment, for life, ran with the old-fashioned man who quietly went about his business, and the son they would produce.

 

So, for her, she found her old-fashioned man, after, for her generation, many years of looking. Perhaps the OP, if she is of the right mettle, can be equally successful in her search. I hope so. Myself, I'll be happy to live out the rest of my life in relative peace with the knowledge that I gave it a shot. At the other end, what was once so important seems to not be so much anymore. Other facets of life intervene. It's all part of living. Hope it works out

[Jazzari]

Yes being a homemaker is an honorable thing.

 

But if you don't wanna have a career, don't go to school. Let the money be allocated to a male who is actually going to be the provider.

Education is valuable, even if you don't use it to earn money. Being able to hold an intelligent conversation with your spouse (and others) is a good thing. It broadens your mind and makes you a more well rounded person. And homemakers need to handle finances, deal with insurance paperwork, understand health issues, help with schoolwork, etc.

 

Also, if they divorce or the spouse dies or can't work for some reason, its good to have some skills in order to support your family.

[Jazzari]

Old fashioned doesn't have to be as stereotypical as it might otherwise seem. I'll offer my 'Beaver Cleaver' datapoint.

 

Dear old dad was a young man with a family when Hitler decided to turn the world upside down back in the late 30's. He answered the call to duty and went to Europe like millions of other men from many countries. While on duty, he got a 'dear John' letter from his wife telling him she was leaving and divorcing him and taking his children. I've read the letters (he saved them) so I know the details of a family I would never know.

 

He luckily survived, returned home and dealt with the aftermath of his family breakup, going so far to have the marriage annulled in the church so he could remarry within his faith. He paid child support to daughters he would never again see (I saw the canceled checks) and evidently greatly cherished the cards and letters (which he kept until his death) from them. He did not speak of nor complain about any of this. I knew none of it until after his death, and I was already an adult. I did know I had half-sisters but that was all.

 

He later met my mom, who was a successful and independent early 30's working lady who became acquainted with him by selling him a suit. He kept going back and buying suits until she agreed to 'go out' with him. Later, they married and, prior to tricycle boy being born, mutually decided (my mom told me this) that she would be a SAHM. That is what they did and she did not 'work' in any significant income producing capacity until after his death 32 years later.

 

The lessons I learned by osmosis were that people face challenges in life and they have choices as to how they deal with and process those challenges. 'Old-fashioned' can describe many things. For myself, it describes one path, the one I know. For others, their path.

 

In another time, in another society, after each facing personal and societal challenges (like WW2), my mother was about the same age as the OP when she met my father. As she was a quite attractive young lady, I'm sure she entertained the attentions of men while in her 20's and, typical of her generation, a lady keeps her discretion, though she would much later in life tell me about a couple of 'romances' she experienced. Her love and commitment, for life, ran with the old-fashioned man who quietly went about his business, and the son they would produce.

 

So, for her, she found her old-fashioned man, after, for her generation, many years of looking. Perhaps the OP, if she is of the right mettle, can be equally successful in her search. I hope so. Myself, I'll be happy to live out the rest of my life in relative peace with the knowledge that I gave it a shot. At the other end, what was once so important seems to not be so much anymore. Other facets of life intervene. It's all part of living. Hope it works out

That was a great post. Thanks so much for sharing that story.

[SlevinKalebra]

Wow, this got bloody fast. I think a lot of general male sentiment is in here though. Both men and women have an idealic image of what they want in the opposite sex, neither one accounts for what the opposite sex wants though. Women want to enjoy their youth as much as men, and why shouldn't they. They want someone that will take care of their kids(this means the kids they had TOGETHER. Why would a man want to pay for another man's child?)

Men want to have a trustworthy devoted life long wife. One that does not make him feel like she would have blown him off a few years back prior to getting knocked up and having a few baby daddies in the picture (rude crude and not a popular thing to say to women but it is what it is and it's how most men feel.)

At any rate Boxer 88 hit it on the head (more than once) those "good old days" are gone. I have had a handful of serious relationships and have more than my fair share of baggage. I have finally come to the realization that the way the world is I far perfer to be eternally single, deal with the lonliness, live my life for me and my children. And if the right someone comes along and want to be friends, lovers whatever, great but I expect nothing and won't be disappointed when it becomes nothing. That is the truth that more and more men are finding

[RedPill]

I think people are not old fashioned or modern, their actions are, and the actions depend on what they believe to be in their best interest depending on their current situation.

 

You might find an 'old fashioned acting' (provider) man depending on what you bring to the table.

[musemaj11]

Education is valuable, even if you don't use it to earn money. Being able to hold an intelligent conversation with your spouse (and others) is a good thing. It broadens your mind and makes you a more well rounded person. And homemakers need to handle finances, deal with insurance paperwork, understand health issues, help with schoolwork, etc.

 

Also, if they divorce or the spouse dies or can't work for some reason, its good to have some skills in order to support your family.

True, but pay with your own money. Government subsidy should be prioritized for people who are actually going to capitalize on the investment.

[carhill]

My understanding is my father returned home with the clothes on his back and a few bucks in his pocket. His exW, who had divorced him in-absentia while he was overseas, took possession of everything else. The child support checks I saw were for thirty dollars per month, which seems insubstantial, but, considering it cost 62 dollars (dad paid cash) for my hospital birth and their mortgage was 85 dollars per month (VA loan), that puts it in some perspective.

 

While we generally feel (I admit sharing this feeling) that we have it the roughest, adversity and unfairness and all the darkest sides of human nature and their manifestations in society and law have existed from the beginning of humanity.

 

Somehow, people wade through it all and hopefully live meaningful and fulfilling lives. My main regret is that I wasn't able to give a young man or lady an 'old-fashioned' start, as I feel there is value to be taken away from that perspective, even as applied to the 'modern' world. I would hope, even with challenges and disappointments, that son or daughter would have a positive attitude about their path in life, and not so much the reflection of pain I often read in these pages and experience with the young people I interact with. When I look in their eyes, I see our future, their future, and it gives me pause. Hope too, but, often, pause. I hold on to hope.

[Jazzari]

True, but pay with your own money. Government subsidy should be prioritized for people who are actually going to capitalize on the investment.

Sure, I can agree with that. I'm not much into government handouts in any case.

[musemaj11]

Sure, I can agree with that. I'm not much into government handouts in any case.

Unfortunately there's no way the government can avoid subsidizing people who don't deserve priority without being politically incorrect.

[ladyinlimbo]

 

This is why I would never join the military nor would I get married. We get it. Women hate us. The irony is, they still like having sex with us no strings attached, so it doesn't even matter.

 

 

And equally as ironic is that men still enjoy having sex with women who are, pretty much intimated by yourself and a handful of other man here, Satan's spawn. Irony abounds. Praise the Lord and pass the potatoes.

[Woggle]

Though I don't feel that a woman at 29 is unattractive I do agree that many women spend their prime years chasing after bad boys who do nothing but abuse and jerk them around though the women come back for more. When these women have finally had enough they seek out the good guys they used to reject but now they have baggage like a kid and a jaded and bitter attitude towards men and relationships.

 

They also still lust after these bad boys and the minute they see one that gets them hot they will be cheating on their reliable and faithful husband. When you try to show a woman like this a healthy relationship they give you nothing but drama because they are incapable of having one. They get bored in relationships with no little to no drama.

 

Sadly it seems that this is what single men in their 30s are stuck with.