Do old fashioned (single) men still exist out there?

[Darren Taylor]

There are many men like that around.

 

They're the ones that in the past you would have been just friends with or ignored in favour of the 'LOTS of jerks' you went out with.

 

 

I don't know if I'm really old fashioned or not but I'm a decent man and I've always been so. I'd never get involved with a woman who has a past of constant relationships with a*sholes. I'm not going to be her safety net just because she's 'over it'

 

As I approach 30, I'm seeing this sort of mentality quite a bit from my single/divorced female peers.

I can't say I feel any sympathy for them at all.

Everyone is accountable for their actions, even women.

 

 

Well said. The problem is women aren't held accountable for their actions. Keep those women out of the gene pool. I don't want anything to do with such women. I say let them die out and keep the good women. The ones that don't chase a**holes/players. They deserve to be happy and they deserve good men.

 

 

This whole topic can be turned around to the other side.

 

How many guys go through their late teens to mid 30s being players; going from chick to chick, screw to screw, from one hot party babe to the next, using plenty of women just for fun and sex...........then he's approaching mid to late 30s (or older) and suddenly he wakes up one day and has an epiphany...........he's never been in love, he wants to settle down, build a future with a good woman, have a family, etc........but the decent/mature/devoted/down to earth woman who aren't into the club scene are just not to be found -- because someone else has long since snapped them up. So then he's bitter and claims there are no good women left. Really? They were there and around you all along.......but you were too busy looking for fun, hotter, tighter, no strings, no commitments, hit it and quit it, notches in your bedpost, etc.

 

 

Those guys are rare. You either have to be good looking, have money/status, or a massive amount of game to be a player. A guy being a player requires much more skill than a woman doing the same. To get laid, a woman just has to show up. No game required. Men that are players, do so because they want to. The majority of them don't want to get married.

[salty goodness]

and that's great, if they're happy i'm happy for them.

 

but people can't wake up one morning and decide to be who they're not. it doesn't work that way.

 

oh, i totally agree with you what i don't agree with are some of the posts here made by men claiming that young women like the friend i described above are clamoring to marry 40 yr old guys who after living lives of debauchery now want good Christian women to marry.

[sanskrit]

This whole topic can be turned around to the other side.

 

Wrong... 100% wrong.

 

1. The genders are situated entirely differently in how they seek and obtain sex, apples and oranges. For women, sex is a given, something they can have whenever they want, they merely have to ask men they find attractive until one says "yes," likely the first one. Not so for men. Other than the top X% of men in looks, wealth, social value, if a man wants to get -any- sex, he must be seeking sex frequently if not constantly. Unlike a woman, a man has no control over which of his efforts to get sex will result in sex.

 

2. Men approach, women select. Men make themselves content with one of the broad cross-section of women who accept their advances, whether it's a "nice girl," "bad girl," whatever, men have MUCH less control than women over whom they end up in a relationship with. Women choose one of the men who approaches, and even average women are approached in a week more than average to above average men are approached in a -year-.

 

3. How many guys go through their teens and twenties as carefree players? A tiny percentage, in comparison to a -majority- of women who do it today. Because 60% of women seem to have no problem fighting over the same 5% of men, whether they are taken or not (a wedding ring is the most potent aphrodisiac), and seem quite willing to "harem" themselves to the same tiny percentage of men, the "player" lifestyle is available to very few men.

 

4. Men are told that a certain amount of sexual experience is -expected- of them or they are not desirable relationship partners. There are recent threads all over this board attesting to this. Women are not told this to the same degree, in fact, as this thread evidences, they are told the opposite.

 

5. It is insulting to claim that women could be treated badly in domestic courts. Of course they could, they generally aren't though, whereas men are out and out REAMED via exorbitant child/ex support payments, accusations of sexual abuse, etc.

[carhill]

I respect the tone of the arguments here, at least those pertaining to 'old-fashioned men' walking the talk wrt the types of women they prefer/choose/dismiss, etc. I think it only fair to bring to the table what one wishes to view on the table from another. The 'old-fashioned' philosophy was how I lived for nearly 20 years as an adult. Bluntly, pragmatically, it didn't work, not in my generation at least, and was decidedly impotent in attracting and retaining a compatible partner.

 

The good news is, after the resultant brief vacation, I'm back to that naturally occurring 'style' and don't really care anymore whether it's well received or not. That's the life lesson. Walk the path; own the path; respect the paths of others, not to be confused with conforming to the paths of others.

 

As the OP has never returned to this thread, I'll leave it at that. Hope it works out for her.

[thatone]

Wrong... 100% wrong.

 

1. The genders are situated entirely differently in how they seek and obtain sex, apples and oranges. For women, sex is a given, something they can have whenever they want, they merely have to ask men they find attractive until one says "yes," likely the first one. Not so for men. Other than the top X% of men in looks, wealth, social value, if a man wants to get -any- sex, he must be seeking sex frequently if not constantly. Unlike a woman, a man has no control over which of his efforts to get sex will result in sex.

 

2. Men approach, women select. Men make themselves content with one of the broad cross-section of women who accept their advances, whether it's a "nice girl," "bad girl," whatever, men have MUCH less control than women over whom they end up in a relationship with. Women choose one of the men who approaches, and even average women are approached in a week more than average to above average men are approached in a -year-.

 

3. How many guys go through their teens and twenties as carefree players? A tiny percentage, in comparison to a -majority- of women who do it today. Because 60% of women seem to have no problem fighting over the same 5% of men, whether they are taken or not (a wedding ring is the most potent aphrodisiac), and seem quite willing to "harem" themselves to the same tiny percentage of men, the "player" lifestyle is available to very few men.

 

4. Men are told that a certain amount of sexual experience is -expected- of them or they are not desirable relationship partners. There are recent threads all over this board attesting to this. Women are not told this to the same degree, in fact, as this thread evidences, they are told the opposite.

 

5. It is insulting to claim that women could be treated badly in domestic courts. Of course they could, they generally aren't though, whereas men are out and out REAMED via exorbitant child/ex support payments, accusations of sexual abuse, etc.

 

you misunderstood what she was saying, in all points except #5.

 

true, in terms of the means by which men and women get together, men have it completely different.

 

but when it gets to the point of people trying to change who they are, they have to accept the fact that they will not easily find a willing person to do that with. none of those things you mentioned have anything to do with that.

[Jynxx]

Wrong... 100% wrong.

 

1. The genders are situated entirely differently in how they seek and obtain sex, apples and oranges. For women, sex is a given, something they can have whenever they want, they merely have to ask men they find attractive until one says "yes," likely the first one. Not so for men. Other than the top X% of men in looks, wealth, social value, if a man wants to get -any- sex, he must be seeking sex frequently if not constantly. Unlike a woman, a man has no control over which of his efforts to get sex will result in sex.

 

2. Men approach, women select. Men make themselves content with one of the broad cross-section of women who accept their advances, whether it's a "nice girl," "bad girl," whatever, men have MUCH less control than women over whom they end up in a relationship with. Women choose one of the men who approaches, and even average women are approached in a week more than average to above average men are approached in a -year-.

 

3. How many guys go through their teens and twenties as carefree players? A tiny percentage, in comparison to a -majority- of women who do it today. Because 60% of women seem to have no problem fighting over the same 5% of men, whether they are taken or not (a wedding ring is the most potent aphrodisiac), and seem quite willing to "harem" themselves to the same tiny percentage of men, the "player" lifestyle is available to very few men.

 

4. Men are told that a certain amount of sexual experience is -expected- of them or they are not desirable relationship partners. There are recent threads all over this board attesting to this. Women are not told this to the same degree, in fact, as this thread evidences, they are told the opposite.

 

5. It is insulting to claim that women could be treated badly in domestic courts. Of course they could, they generally aren't though, whereas men are out and out REAMED via exorbitant child/ex support payments, accusations of sexual abuse, etc.

Post Of The Year imo

[persevere]

The gist of the problem is, women really don't like nice guys. Outwardly, at least. Many modern women would like to have the type of guys who seem to have everything, but who also have a propensity to be players or jerks. Take a look at any of the women's magazines and media, for example. It's all about appearance, financial prowess, wearing the nicest fashions, driving the nicest cars. If you are a nice guy, average looking with not a lot of money, you get left out in your earlier years (20's-30's). Believe me, I have seen it time and time again. As you get older, the same women who would have nothing to do with you when you were flat broke, are now divorced to the jerk guy they married during the time they ignored nice guys. Now, they want the nice guy who has made it in life, ala solo. Too many people are after the wrong things. The soul is what matters in a successful relationship. Everything else can be taken away. Also, many men are scared of getting ripped off. In a divorce, the woman can rake a successful man over he coals with a blink of the eye, but that's another topic perhaps.

[sanskrit]

you misunderstood what she was saying, in all points except #5.

 

Quite certain that I didn't, as I have seen the same fallacious "double standard" argument posted here over and over, and generally reply to it as I did. Could even have a "cut and paste" response as it is seen so much here on LS.

[thatone]

Quite certain that I didn't, as I have seen the same fallacious "double standard" argument posted here over and over, and generally reply to it as I did. Could even have a "cut and paste" response as it is seen so much here on LS.

 

how old are you?

 

maybe it's an age difference thing here. i don't disagree with anything you said, just don't think it's applicable to this particular argument.

 

maybe it's just because i'm older than you, and find that those women who were once out of reach are now very much in reach, since they've suddenly decided that they are more interested in someone to provide for those kids they're dying to have. and i'm in no way offering to marry every one that shows interest, or give them those children. they have to prove themselves to me just as much as i do to them.

[eerie_reverie]

I am horrified at the pages of posts telling the OP she doesn't deserve a relationship. What is the point of coming to a relationship forum to offer advice if your advice is, "fcvk you, you're screwed"?

 

OP, a lot of people marry in their 30's and later. You just need a better people-picker - next time you meet a guy who lives at home and smokes pot all day long, DON'T GET INVOLVED.

Edited May 22, 2011 by eerie_reverie

[musemaj11]

I respect the tone of the arguments here, at least those pertaining to 'old-fashioned men' walking the talk wrt the types of women they prefer/choose/dismiss, etc. I think it only fair to bring to the table what one wishes to view on the table from another. The 'old-fashioned' philosophy was how I lived for nearly 20 years as an adult. Bluntly, pragmatically, it didn't work, not in my generation at least, and was decidedly impotent in attracting and retaining a compatible partner.

 

The good news is, after the resultant brief vacation, I'm back to that naturally occurring 'style' and don't really care anymore whether it's well received or not. That's the life lesson. Walk the path; own the path; respect the paths of others, not to be confused with conforming to the paths of others.

 

As the OP has never returned to this thread, I'll leave it at that. Hope it works out for her.

Call it oedipus complex, but I do want someone like my mother. An intelligent career woman who is also a good mother and a good wife. My dad is a very lucky man. If only he is more grateful for what he has.

[Els]

I am horrified at the pages of posts telling the OP she doesn't deserve a relationship. What is the point of coming to a relationship forum to offer advice if your advice is, "fcvk you, you're screwed"?

 

OP, a lot of people marry in their 30's and later. You just need a better people-picker - next time you meet a guy who lives at home and smokes pot all day long, DON'T GET INVOLVED.

 

Probably the best advice in this thread.

[sanskrit]

how old are you?

 

47.

 

maybe it's an age difference thing here. i don't disagree with anything you said, just don't think it's applicable to this particular argument.

 

Broken record on LS:

1. Men express preference for women who don't have a mattress attached to their back.

2. Women bristle and say, "Well you are doing it too, why aren't men judged for having a partying younger lifestyle and lots of sex, yet women are judged? why the double standard? what's good for the goose is good for the gander!"

3. Sanskrit busts the double standard up in several different (brilliant and compelling ways) ways. (and I had company come to the door:laugh: so left out the "women aren't judged for having a normal sexual lifestyle nearly as much as in the past, while men are in fact judged for having a promiscuous lifestyle more and more plank)

4. Women claim that LS is full of misogynists because they don't have a rational response.

 

So, yeah have seen this exact issue many times here. OP wonders where are all the good old-fashioned men? despite that OP has only recently decided to become a good old-fashioned girl. Men bristle and complain that you can't just change in midstream and be taken seriously in a modern marriage climate that is very risky for men. Women come to OP's rescue citing the above mentioned "double standard."

[thatone]

47.

 

 

 

Broken record on LS:

1. Men express preference for women who don't have a mattress attached to their back.

2. Women bristle and say, "Well you are doing it too, why aren't men judged for having a partying younger lifestyle and lots of sex, yet women are judged? why the double standard? what's good for the goose is good for the gander!"

3. Sanskrit busts the double standard up in several different (brilliant and compelling ways) ways. (and I had company come to the door:laugh: so left out the "women aren't judged for having a normal sexual lifestyle nearly as much as in the past, while men are in fact judged for having a promiscuous lifestyle more and more plank)

4. Women claim that LS is full of misogynists because they don't have a rational response.

 

So, yeah have seen this exact issue many times here. OP wonders where are all the good old-fashioned men? despite that OP has only recently decided to become a good old-fashioned girl. Men bristle and complain that you can't just change in midstream and be taken seriously in a modern marriage climate that is very risky for men. Women come to OP's rescue citing the above mentioned "double standard."

 

in that case nevermind, we agree, lol.

 

i just don't bristle much about it. not really looking to be a family man so i don't care if the women i meet aren't family women.

[musemaj11]

I am horrified at the pages of posts telling the OP she doesn't deserve a relationship. What is the point of coming to a relationship forum to offer advice if your advice is, "fcvk you, you're screwed"?

 

OP, a lot of people marry in their 30's and later. You just need a better people-picker - next time you meet a guy who lives at home and smokes pot all day long, DON'T GET INVOLVED.

People aren't saying you can't find someone to marry after 30. People are just saying that a 32 year old woman wanting a man who will marry her and rich enough to give her a comfortable life without her having to work is pretty dam unrealistic.

 

Firstly with the advent of women in the financial ladder, there are less and less rich men. And second rich men want young beautiful women.

[sanskrit]

Well, very few men get really rich til 50, and everyone knows that 30-40 y.o. women look younger and younger these days, and are -demonstrably- better in bed, so it's not unreasonable for a woman to expect to find a sugar daddy in her 30s.

 

Hell, in my 40s, have been "upgraded" for geezer multimillionaires several times by 38-45 y.o. women. The older women have also shifted to a "Coldplay/KennyG" bad taste in music, art and culture generally from a "Justin Beiber/L Gaga" abysmal level of bad taste, which is much more tolerable when you have to actually spend "quality time" with them, so a plus.

[Jazzari]

People aren't saying you can't find someone to marry after 30. People are just saying that a 32 year old woman wanting a man who will marry her and rich enough to give her a comfortable life without her having to work is pretty dam unrealistic.

It depends. If you are in the upper middle class, then it's very doable.

 

Firstly with the advent of women in the financial ladder, there are less and less rich men. And second rich men want young beautiful women.

And these are the men that get taken to the cleaners. When the guy gets too old, the (still young and beautiful) woman takes the money and runs off with the pool boy. I don't have alot of sympathy in this case. If you buy a woman, you better do it with your eyes wide open.

[Imajerk17]

I agree with sanskrit.

 

I browsed the OP's threads in the past. She as a lot of women on LS, has a horrible way of screening guys, all on the basis of "chemistry".

 

It's going to be hard for someone who has dated a lot of jerks to land that good man. They are going to find out about her past and be wary. Sorry ladies, but that is the truth.

[Imajerk17]

I know I know, past performance doesn't pick future results, but it is how a lot of us screen when it comes to becoming serious with someone.

[Els]

It depends. If you are in the upper middle class, then it's very doable.

 

And these are the men that get taken to the cleaners. When the guy gets too old, the (still young and beautiful) woman takes the money and runs off with the pool boy. I don't have alot of sympathy in this case. If you buy a woman, you better do it with your eyes wide open.

 

Definitely. Going for hot young ass without a pre-nup is literally (quote myself from another thread) asking to be brought to the cleaners.

[thatone]

 

The older women have also shifted to a "Coldplay/KennyG" bad taste in music, art and culture generally from a "Justin Beiber/L Gaga" abysmal level of bad taste, which is much more tolerable when you have to actually spend "quality time" with them, so a plus.

 

you think that's strange?

 

try the female attorney who still likes heavy metal shows. that's what you get in your early 30s these days .

 

i distinctly remember once with my pothead friends once in college joking about whether we would go into a restaurant or elevator one day and hear our music being turned into a cheap electric flute-ified background music for some stiff's office. now alex skolnick is playing jazz versions of his old metal songs, older people love it, and well, the rest is history?

Edited May 22, 2011 by thatone

[Woggle]

I think it's funny how women want men to have empathy for the OP's situation but have no empathy at all for men who are betrayed and taken to the cleaners. If you wonder why some men are so cold hearted towards women it is because they are very cold hearted when we are screwed over.

[sanskrit]

you think that's strange?

 

try the female attorney who still likes heavy metal shows. that's what you get in your early 30s these days .

 

i distinctly remember once with my pothead friends once in college joking about whether we would go into a restaurant or elevator one day and hear our music being turned into a cheap electric flute-ified background music for some stiff's office. now alex skolnick is playing jazz versions of his old metal songs, older people love it, and well, the rest is history?

 

Was kidding about the bad taste, but know exactly what you are saying. Had a 38 y.o. GF play this Justin Timberlake song "at" me over and over a couple years back in a car until I "liked it." O the pain, really need PTSD therapy for that actually.

[Jynxx]

 

And these are the men that get taken to the cleaners. When the guy gets too old, the (still young and beautiful) woman takes the money and runs off with the pool boy. I don't have alot of sympathy in this case.

 

I don't think you should have sympathy for anyone, but I'm not sure if you understand the whole thing.

 

Women are on top of their attractiveness around age 20. It goes down afterwards. If a guy is bad with women during age 20-25 and doesn't get relationships or sex, he misses out on the most attractive women if he wants to follow the unwritten rules of society and date only a couple years younger than his own age. If later in life he does get better with women, he will be "good enough" for a woman his own age (now that she's uglier) that he wasnt good enough for while she was hot. Can you feel how this would not feel good for the balance in a relationship?

 

I know what I'm talking about, during the first years of my 20s I was really shy and bad with women, and when I became better with them I hated the idea that women my own age had been having relationships and ignoring me during the best years of my life while I was alone and frustrated. Why would I give them my precious time and attention now that I was the most desired party? Why wouldn't I make up for lost time, compensate for what I never had and finally pick someone younger and prettier than the ones that shot me down? I obviously realise a woman is not to blame for how other woman treated me, but it's hard not to think like that.

 

Add to that that a 30 year old with little experience has about the same emotional maturity as a 22 year old with lots of experience; they are basically at the same point in life. I'm 25 and I've never had a serious relationship that lasted over a month. How can I relate to a 25 year old girl that had 3 relationships lasting over 2 year? For her it's almost a routine, for me most of it would be new territory, and that once again is bad for the balance in a relationship and wil lead to a higher chance of faillure.

[Jazzari]

I don't think you should have sympathy for anyone, but I'm not sure if you understand the whole thing.

 

Women are on top of their attractiveness around age 20. It goes down afterwards. If a guy is bad with women during age 20-25 and doesn't get relationships or sex, he misses out on the most attractive women if he wants to follow the unwritten rules of society and date only a couple years younger than his own age. If later in life he does get better with women, he will be "good enough" for a woman his own age (now that she's uglier) that he wasnt good enough for while she was hot. Can you feel how this would not feel good for the balance in a relationship?

 

I know what I'm talking about, during the first years of my 20s I was really shy and bad with women, and when I became better with them I hated the idea that women my own age had been having relationships and ignoring me during the best years of my life while I was alone and frustrated. Why would I give them my precious time and attention now that I was the most desired party? Why wouldn't I make up for lost time, compensate for what I never had and finally pick someone younger and prettier than the ones that shot me down? I obviously realise a woman is not to blame for how other woman treated me, but it's hard not to think like that.

 

Add to that that a 30 year old with little experience has about the same emotional maturity as a 22 year old with lots of experience; they are basically at the same point in life. I'm 25 and I've never had a serious relationship that lasted over a month. How can I relate to a 25 year old girl that had 3 relationships lasting over 2 year? For her it's almost a routine, for me most of it would be new territory, and that once again is bad for the balance in a relationship and wil lead to a higher chance of faillure.

If you are talking strictly physical, then I can agree with you. Thankfully, not all men base their attraction on strictly physical. Most men my age (40s) would be happy to have sex with a 20 year old. Very few would want to actually marry them. A few years difference (even 10) is not such a big deal. But more than that, and I think you are asking for trouble. You're young enough that it doesn't really apply to you though.

 

I do have alot of sympathy for those that have been burned or ignored.

 

I don't understand why not having LTR experience puts you at higher risk of a breakup. But since I'm not standing in your shoes, I'll take your word for it.