Seriously considering Divorce- need perspective, s

[irishdaisy]

I feel safe to tell my story here.

 

My husband and I have been married just over a year. We have no children.

Our wedding was a huge multi- cultural affair and for the first time in my life, my mom actually approved of my husband.

I also get along well with his mother. I have a very good high profile job in the entertainment industry. It's very competitive and can be stressful but I'm good at it.

All of my friends are actually also my work friends so I feel I can't disclose any of the private pain I've been going through with any of them.

 

My husband has an anger management problem and I just don't know if it will ever get better. Two weeks ago i was heading out to an event i was responsible for covering and was running late. My husband was angry about something and would not let me leave the house. He was blocking the door with his body and I got frantic. I started screaming and he pushed me three times into the stairs. I had bruises on both elbows and my pants were scuffed. I stood up and kicked him in the privates to disable him and stepped over him to get into my car. He then ran after me to try to get into the car but I had locked the doors and drove away. At work, 20 minutes later, i had to just smooth my hair and pretend everything was fine. All smiles. The next day i went over to visit his mother and showed her the bruises and told her everything that had happened. My husband came over too and we had a family meeting. My husband admitted then he has a problem and he can't control himself when he is triggered. We have separated for the past two weeks- he

 

went to stay with his mother and he says he has signed up for a 10 series of classes plus therapy sessions with his mom, which he says she is the core reason why he is a hothead today.

[Owl]

This is abuse, plain and simple.

 

I can't give good advice in this area, simply because personally I've not had much experience with people who successfully changed and stopped their behaviors.

 

I'm not saying it's not possible...but I know its outside my scope of experience.

 

I'd suggest that you find a good counselor who can help you sort through this...and be very, very cautious about resuming a relationship with this man. There's a thing called "the cycle of violence"...and each time the cycle repeats, the less time the next cycle takes to complete.

 

He may be remorseful now, but unless something truly changes...the risk that it will happen again (and escalate) remains high.

[irishdaisy]

Since we've been separated I've felt more at ease, lonely at times- but safe.

I don't want to be in a cycle of abuse with my husband that I read so much about. There were red warning signs even just 10 days before we were married when he went off on me in a parking lot. A bystander called the police

and when they arrived and saw a red mark on my arm from him tugging me, they put him in handcuffs and he spent a night in jail. I was so in shock and traumatized, and already feeling crazy stress from wedding preparations. We were already in premarital counseling at the time so we went to see the counselor he told me basically that I was going to be unhappy with either choice- if I cancelled the wedding it would be traumatic and if I swept this experience under the rug it would be traumatic too. My husband seemed very sorry for the experience and promised all sorts of things and in my wanting for everything to be okay I went ahead and got married. Now I feel like with this recent episode I can't forget what he's done. I feel so so so so embarassed if I were to file for divorce. I can't help but think how that would shatter all the perceptions all of my aquaintances have of me. Instead of this wonderful cool life where I have it all together, I have a miserable Jerry springer episode of a personal life. Does anyone have an experience like mine and it does get better? My husband seems committed to his new therapy but like I said I can't forget .

[irishdaisy]

I wish I didn't feel so alone in what I'm going through. Thanks to Owl for replying but with 127 views and no other bites on my situation I feel maybe I'm in the wrong place. Maybe everyone is window shopping so they can feel better about their own situation. Who knows. I'm lonely and feeling quite sad.

Oh well.

[Mauschen]

Hello ID,

 

I was married to a man with an "anger problem" for several years. People often ask me why I married him. I loved him and never realized that people would treat each other that way in a marriage. What your husband is doing is abusive.

 

In my case, each time my husband trapped me a little more, the abuse got worse. For instance, once we moved in together, he started trying to alienate me from my friends and family. He would say things like, "your friends are all stupid and uneducated" and "your parents are so simple that they don't have the capacity to love you." Once I got pregnant with our first child, the abuse got a lot worse. Following the birth of our child, I was hit, thrown across a room, held down, choked, and insulted constantly. I was so disappointed in my then-husband, that I lost total respect for him.

 

I am not a proponent of divorce, but in some cases it is better to just cut your losses before you are in too deep. Of the women and men I know who have lived with abusive spouses, I know none who have changed for long periods of time. Some of them seek therapy and do well for a few months at a time. I'm sure somewhere there are exceptions.

 

Be happy that you don't yet have children and the opportunity for you to have a normal, abuse-free life for yourself and your possible future children is still there.

 

I grieve for my 2 children that they have a father who insults them, neglects them, and punishes them with physical force. It is not healthy for them, they are confused by it because they don't understand how someone who loves them and sometimes has lots of fun with them can also hit them, and I have to make sure they attend therapy to overcome what their father does to them (if that is even possible to overcome).

 

You have the choice to stay with your husband hoping he will change, or to move on. If I had to do it all over again (and I'm not wishing my children away here; I love them!), I would have cut my losses and left. I would have found someone new, someone kind and loving, someone just like my current husband, and I would have made a life with him without complications (i.e. having to maintain contact with my ex because of our 2 children).

 

In my experience, my ex would only change very temporarily and was never able to change the way he thought. My ex could somewhat understand that he shouldn't hit me, but I think only because he didn't want me to leave. He was never able to understand why he shouldn't insult me and often accused me of being too sensitive. I have no such problems with my current husband who is not abusive.

[irishdaisy]

Thank you for your thoughts Mauschen. Im glad to hear you are doing better in your current marriage. I had my second therapy session on Thursday. What I concluded was that there is probably a 10% chance of my husband getting better from all his counseling and anger management sessions that he has volunteered to go through. I don't feel he has the will power to stick to any new behavior patterns he may learn. At that point in the session I broke down and sobbed like a baby. I don't understand why everything in my life professionally goes well but my personal life is always such a mess. If I go through with divorcing my husband it will be my second and I'm not even 40 years old. I just feel so sad to start over again. I feel it would just break me. Everyone was so happy for me to find love when I met and married my husband and I just don't know how I'm going to manage emotionally

from all of this.

[redemption1]

Before I even read others post, let me give you my input.

 

Allow him to go to the classess...all of them. After he completes the classes, ask him if there is anything else he should do to better aid his illness. If he says no, then its go time.

 

Now, just wait and see what happens. One physical abusive contact with you and you call the police and he's gone. He will not change. Corrections or classes and medical help might later change him, but do not stay there and wait.

 

He's calling for help. Allow him that once and only once more. Do not accept verbal abuse and do not allow physical abuse. 911.

[irishdaisy]

Yesterday I came home to my husband's car in the garage. We had agreed to separate for an additional two weeks but he said he may have to be back to get a few things, use the printer. I don't like it and wish he had given me a heads up so I didn't have to see him. Waited in my car while he put his things in his trunk. He tried to talk to me but I wouldn't roll down my window so he left. Later tonight I went to unfriend him on my face book and noticed that he took down all the pictures of the two of us together from his photo album and deleted his relationship status. That stung a bit. Then this his morning I get a friend request from him?? Makes no sense at all.

 

Since he's been gone I've felt pretty good overall. I don't miss the drama, the mental chaos, the lack of empathy he has displayed for my feelings and all the work I do. I don't miss the mess he'd leave around the house. I don't miss him spending endless hours on the internet and then checking out emotionally together. I don't miss the bizarre 'baby talk' he'd engage in when he wanted to feel close.

 

I don't miss his lack of sex drive and the damage it's done to my self esteem.

 

I just keep replaying all the abuse I've suffered. All the times he followed me up and down the stairs and around the house to talk to me after calling "time out". Physically blocking me from closing a door for space and privacy when I asked for that 'timeout'. The pushing episodes. His withdrawing from speaking at family get togethers and leaving me to carry all the conversations- especially with his mom. My birthday- when he ruined my only day off that month- my birthday- by throwing my birthday cake down and yelling at me because I "ruined the surprise" by getting out of bed too early. He's even told me in an angry rage that if I divorce him that I better write him a check for 25,000 for all he's had to deal with.

 

At this point I don't care what kind of therapy he's engaging in. Like I said in my first post, apparently he's seeing a psychiatrist with his mom to deal with their conflicted relationship. He's also going to anger management for 10 weeks. He probably loves all this stuff because all the focus is on him.

He might think that once he's done with all that I'll be ready to come back to him.

I'm angry today. I need to drink some water and workout.

[coolheadal]

Yes once the spouse acts like this you, you need to think about "is this the guy really someone you want to spent for the rest of your life with"? My two brother-in-laws are like your husband there. One of the wives got out and warned me about the wife I had married she would do the same. True she does get very angry to the point it could get dangerous for me. The bothers grab their wives by the throat into a choke hold. That's crazy to put up with that type of physical abuse. The other wife is so scared she has one kid by him the other had two kids.

 

Best you get out of this marriage and find someone else and don't rush getting married. Don't go to his mother as she won't take your side as that's her son and he's counts more than you do as it would be normal for her to think that way. Same with my mother-in-law. The brother-in-laws wives had gone to her and she didn't even bother to help them out. All she can do is take them in when they start acting wacko.

 

Mine always runs off to her mothers house when she got mad. And mad over stupid things.

 

Take care don't drink too much you'll just hurt yourself.

[Downtown]

I concluded was that there is probably a 10% chance of my husband getting better from all his counseling and anger management sessions that he has volunteered to go through.

Irish, your H's chance of staying in therapy long enough to make a difference is more like 1% -- not 10% -- if he has strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), as seems likely. The traits you describe -- inappropriate anger, verbal abuse, lack of impulse control, emotional immaturity, and temper tantrums -- are hallmarks of BPD. Only a professional can determine whether the traits are so severe as to meet the diagnostic criteria for having full-blown BPD. It nonetheless is easy to spot the red flags when a man exhibits strong BPD traits. I therefore suggest you read my description of the other BPD traits (there are nine altogether) and see if most of them sound familiar.

 

My two posts in Cy's thread start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3417491#post3417491. If that discussion rings a bell, you may want to read my four posts in GreenEyedRebel's thread, which start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3398735#post3398735. Those posts also provide links to articles on BPD written by professionals. If you have any questions, Irish, I would be glad to try to answer them. I am not a psychologist. Rather, I am just a man who lived with a BPDer (my exW) for 15 years. Take care.

[whichwayisup]

Make sure you get some counseling for yourself. The emotional damage and pain you've suffered, maybe you feel insecure too.. All can be fixed by doing therapy.

 

My suggestion, take it or leave it, is divorce him. This man is going to have issues forever. Imagine having to deal with him when you're pregnant? Have 2 kids etc., he cannot deal with stress, well, kids bring stress!

 

Because you've only been married for a year, see if you can get an annulment. Unless you are completely in love with him and feel he is worthy of another chance, I say stay separated and when he's had more time and therapy, approach him for a divorce. Until then, stay safe and IF he needs to come over for whatever reason (more personal belongings, whatever) then ask a friend or a neighbour to come be with you so you're not alone.

[Kriss]

My husband has an anger management problem

Cut your losses and get divorced before either or both of you wind up in hospital or the cemetery.

[irishdaisy]

I really appreciate all the posts about my situation. It definitely gave me food for thought. I'm going to address some the points here.

#1 on my mind is NO, this isn't the guy I want to spend the rest of my life with- or rather this behaviour pattern is not what I'm going to spend the rest of my life with. I have given him chances - this would be the third chance that I would be giving him if he were to reenter my life. It is the first time that I have involved the family and the one where the family is seemingly taking the physical abuse seriously. He has been going weekly to therapy and anger management since the incident occurred 3 weeks ago.

I don't know whether he has BPD- I think he has low impulse control and he tends to be a follower. He also retreats into a kind of "baby voice" whenever he wants to get close. It drives me absolutely nuts. He also says sometimes he's not aware of when he is "speaking baby" or even when he has raised his voice. And I agree with whichwayisup-- we don't have children to raise or even plants that need watering..and this is how he is dealing with stress?!

 

It really helps to write all this on paper-- As I type this I'm just incredibly amazed that I've put up with all this.

 

I'm going to my 3rd therapy appt tommorrow. I have some questions for her. Her #1 suggestion is to leave him. If I do, my main concern, aside from my emotion healing, is dealing with the social aspect of the divorce.

What do you think of if I told my work friends that it didn't work out because he wanted children and I didn't ? This is actually not far from the truth. I've never wanted children and he said he's always leaned that direction too but what if the "story" suddenly became about his change of heart with regards to children and "we part as friends"?

thoughts please...

[Yasuandio]

Know one, your peers, family, or friends would give a hoot about whatever you came up with to "save face," if it's even necessary.

[Steen719]

I am concerned for your safety above all. The truth is that most abusers harm their victims when they are leaving, so be very careful. This is serious. I know you must think he would not harm you, really, but he could. You have nothing to feel ashamed about when you tell your friends. You just tell them it did not work out. I don't know how to get back to the post while I am posting (sorry), but someone answered you by sharing their experiences and her regret included how her children were affected. Go while you do not have children. She gave you good advice from someone who lived with it. Be careful and make sure you have new locks on your doors. I don't mean to scare you, but it can be intense. I worked in a Family court for a while as a social worker.

This is not your fault; do not blame yourself.

[irishdaisy]

Hi all,

 

I'm still here and it helps to post an update and get my thoughts out there.

 

So Friday I've made my first appointment with a lawyer to file for divorce.

I've been spending some time getting my financial papers together along with a growing list of questions to ask once I'm there. Even though I'd rather go pro per given that our marriage is a short one and with no kids or property, I feel I might have to use an attorney should he decide to hide his money and assets in his other accounts out of the country.

 

I've been seeing my therapist and it's good to have the feedback but I'll admit that I feel like caving sometimes. Since it's been over 4 weeks of separation, I have been idealizing many aspects of the relationship and how he treated me. I have these thoughts like, "It wasn't so bad, he knows he did wrong, he's getting help,he's really sorry, he'll change, he won't push or yell at me again,..."

 

I'm sure every abused spouse goes through this dialogue with one's self. I have real compassion now for those who find it impossible to leave because I can feel the impulse is sometimes really, really strong to stay.

[bc83]

I really appreciate all the posts about my situation. It definitely gave me food for thought. I'm going to address some the points here.

#1 on my mind is NO, this isn't the guy I want to spend the rest of my life with- or rather this behaviour pattern is not what I'm going to spend the rest of my life with. I have given him chances - this would be the third chance that I would be giving him if he were to reenter my life. It is the first time that I have involved the family and the one where the family is seemingly taking the physical abuse seriously. He has been going weekly to therapy and anger management since the incident occurred 3 weeks ago.

I don't know whether he has BPD- I think he has low impulse control and he tends to be a follower. He also retreats into a kind of "baby voice" whenever he wants to get close. It drives me absolutely nuts. He also says sometimes he's not aware of when he is "speaking baby" or even when he has raised his voice. And I agree with whichwayisup-- we don't have children to raise or even plants that need watering..and this is how he is dealing with stress?!

 

It really helps to write all this on paper-- As I type this I'm just incredibly amazed that I've put up with all this.

 

I'm going to my 3rd therapy appt tommorrow. I have some questions for her. Her #1 suggestion is to leave him. If I do, my main concern, aside from my emotion healing, is dealing with the social aspect of the divorce.

What do you think of if I told my work friends that it didn't work out because he wanted children and I didn't ? This is actually not far from the truth. I've never wanted children and he said he's always leaned that direction too but what if the "story" suddenly became about his change of heart with regards to children and "we part as friends"?

thoughts please...

 

Oh ID, please do the right thing and leave the marriage. As to what to say to "save face" - can't it be enough to say that there were incompatibility issues between you two that didn't really surface until after the wedding, and that you are making the best of a bad situation, learning from it and moving on? That you hurt, he hurts, but it will be OK in the end. Fudging the truth may lead you down a discussion path that will quickly become uncomfortable.

 

People who love you will understand. People who only know you may or may not understand, but that's OK too.

 

Please take care.

B

[irishdaisy]

Thank you thank you bc83-- this advice is well put, honest, and non accusatory which is what I was looking for-- I'm going to commit to coming across this way when I get to the point of having to tell everyone.

 

 

"As to what to say to "save face" - can't it be enough to say that there were incompatibility issues between you two that didn't really surface until after the wedding, and that you are making the best of a bad situation, learning from it and moving on? That you hurt, he hurts, but it will be OK in the end. Fudging the truth may lead you down a discussion path that will quickly become uncomfortable.

 

People who love you will understand. People who only know you may or may not understand, but that's OK too."

[irishdaisy]

I went today to the county clerk and filed the divorce papers against my husband.

 

Heavy day. Heavy heart.

 

I intend to represent myself until a judgement has to be written then I'll consult with an attorney and have him/her write up papers.

The paperwork should be straight forward since we never had joint accounts and no property, no children. I know I'm lucky for that.

We still live in a community property state however so I know some things will have to be dealt with financially. I just want what is mine to stay mine and he can keep all his things as they were. I intend to be calm and peaceful towards my husband in order to get the best settlement possible. The thing weighing on my mind is how to tell him the news, how to serve him the papers.

 

I still haven't told anyone about my marriage troubles- not family, not friends, no co-workers-- only my therapist. My husband still thinks I'm taking time out for myself (almost 6 weeks now). I'm debating inviting him to my next therapy session and telling him there in front of my therapist. I don't know. He keeps sending me texts asking to meet and talk even though I've told him I don't want to talk right now.

 

I feel sad- like I'm betraying all my dreams with this man. Flashes of our wedding ceremony keep coming up and I think of all that his mom has done for me. I feel guilty- so guilty. I must believe somehow that I'm doing the right thing. Have to stay strong.

[Steen719]

No matter what place you choose, you need to make sure you can be safe since he has an anger problem. Call and ask your therapist what they think about you bringing him there to tell him or at least get their advice since you have described his behavior to him/her.

 

Sorry you feel so sad and have a heavy heart. That is hard, bound to be when you leave a marriage, no matter what. Do be careful, though, and take care of yourself.

[bc83]

Yes - please be very careful. We are pulling for you. You are doing the right thing and being true to yourself, and the fact that it's hard is OK. Please keep us informed. I know I for one am pretty impressed that you are moving forward so resolutely even when it's so painful. Way to go, and hang in there my dear.

 

BC

[irishdaisy]

Thank you Steen and BC83, I can't tell you how it means to me to hear your comforting words. Yes, I will consider my safety when proceeding with serving him the divorce papers.

 

I spent all morning carefully packing all his things into boxes and stacked them in the closet. I am going to call the Sheriff's office this week anyway to see about serving the papers so I'm going to tell them my situation and see what they have to say about getting his things.

 

I read somewhere that you will only leave a partner when he or she starts to treat you worse than you treat yourself. I think that day when he pushed me into the stairs and I saw how black and blue my elbow got, was the definitive day. I depend on my arms for my performing career. Sometimes I feel I'm not doing this for myself but for my instrument. It's my baby.

 

Another thing I'm noticing is that I am developing zero tolerance for people who interrupt me now.I used to brush it off as normal and my friends do this all the time so I gradually developed more of a listener type of personality.

So I really surprised myself the other day when a hyperactive friend asked me a question then interrupted me yet again mid-sentence as I was answering.

I stopped, gave her a good look, shook my head and said "never mind". I have NEVER done that before. She called me later, apologizing profusely. Felt good to stand up for myself. I deserve to be heard.

[bc83]

You absolutely deserve to be heard, as do the rest of us (usually). Good job on staying focused. I know you know it'll get really hard when you have to talk about this with your family and friends, and you will definitely get some well-meaning advice that is not to be taken (you can rely on LS for help with that!), and having left a husband who was sliding down the getting violent slope I know you'll have to be extra-strong and vigilant when face to face with your husband. Just try to keep in your mind that he doesn't deserve you and that you can be upset but calm. That may drive him crazier - make sure you have others around and a clear shot to the door.

 

BC

[irishdaisy]

I'm starting to really feel things lately. It's going to almost 8 weeks that I haven't seen my husband and this Friday my therapist is booking a 2 hour session where the three of us will sit down and I will tell him I have filed for divorce. I'm getting nervous and anxious. I've been waiting so long for the tax accountant to file our taxes which was the reason for the delay in telling him till now. Wednesday I should have the copies in my hand and I'll have all his information on his LLC financials that I'll need should things get hairy later.

 

I feel sick to my stomach thinking about Friday. He has been texting me that he's coming to the appointment and he probably will bring all his anger management info and his therapy notes and empathy training and tell me what a good person he's been and how sorry he is-- He can really talk a good game.

 

I'm 99% committed to following through with the divorce. But like I told my therapist, the reason why I'm good at my job is because I see things in my career as I'd like them to be-- not as they are- which helps me improve. I just want my marriage to be better-- I can actually SEE and FEEL it better in my mind. But it's not just me in this relationship-- I'm only 50%.

 

I asked my therapist what a miracle would look like in my marriage. The 1% that I am secretly hoping and wishing for.

She said there is a world renowned marriage therapist that does 2 day intensive sessions-16 hours-one on one- with couples on the brink. She says this therapist is a miracle worker- that if I wanted the satisfaction of knowing I did everything I possibly could with this marriage that this is her highest recommendation. I looked over the info and the cost is almost $6,000 plus airfare. My therapist said if I wanted to go this option that she would also make the trip and observe the sessions if I wanted her there.

Depending on how things go on Friday, I am considering this as my 1% option to my husband. My stipulation will be that he would have to cover the entire cost of the sessions, plus airfare.

I have been searching online for some evidence that abusive men change.

Not many cases out there. Still looking for 1% hope.

[irishdaisy]

Yesterday we met at a coffeeshop and my husband handed over the tax return that I've waiting forever to file. I mailed it today and I'm so relieved about finishing that business. I hadn't seen him since early May it was like pulling teeth all over again with our conversation. I had to repeat myself over and ever again just to get the simplest things across to him. He is just so stuck on himself, not even asking me a simple, 'how are you? are you okay?' No caring or concern. Nothing like that.

He just wanted to dialogue about how his therapy is going with his mother and how he is working on himself and how his anger management is going- just another day in sun for a narcissistic man. He simply has no room in his mind to be an attentive man- a loving, caring husband. He said that in his anger management class he was told he has low markers for empathy and that he's sorry for abandoning me in our marriage.

I don't even think he knows what that (low empathy)means really, and he asked me what was it I needed to hear from him, I couldn't even articulate myself. I'm so angry that my feelings have been dismissed for so long. I am so angry that he physically attacked me and he doesn't even bring it up. I asked him if he told his therapist about his physical violence against me and he said "yes, the therapist said I'm like a coke bottle, I let things shake up inside of me and then I explode." Oh really genius?? That's it? No remorse? Is that how it is?! Tell your therapist his amazing insight should win the noble prize. How PROFOUND.

I'm so sad and angry I just can't wait till Friday when we sit with my therapist and I tell him it's over. I want to put all this behind me. I'm just stewing in all my sadness and it's just too much to bear.