Infidelity is a Good Thing?

[thomasb]

Yeah.....and thats when things arent quite so black and white

 

 

 

 

Yeah but according to who?

 

 

Any person who has any decency, integrity and a concience! Are you saying you don't have those attributes?

[Owl]

Wow you have been here a long time. But getting back to the subject of the thread, other than yourself, how many other people still posting at Love Shack for say >5 years claim to have "fully recovered/better marriage" than before the affair?

 

I think three years is probably not quite enough time, but 5 years is enough time, to declare "recovery" with a reasonable degree of assurance, so your situation would qualify.

 

If it's only yourself and two or three others, then I think Kane wins the point. Maybe not a 100% failure rate but close enough not to make any real difference.

 

Edit: Using the five year mark is based upon the commonly recited generalization that it takes "2-5 years" to fully recover from a serious affair. That is not to imply that anyone in recovery for less than 5 years won't be ultimately successful; however, since they haven't yet gotten to the five year point, they shouldn't be included as either "successful" or "non successful" on a long term basis.

 

Good luck finding a decent sampling of people who post on LS > 5 years. Sorry, the sample size is small enough that it doesn't support Kane's or anyone else's theories.

 

Frankly, I can agree that some percentage of marriages that try to recover don't truly improve or change, and that often in those situations subsequent affairs are entirely possible, especially if the WS didn't have sufficient reasons to change as a result of the 'first' affair.

 

But to globally claim that any BS who stays is "sucking up what the WS gives them" and claim that it's impossible for a marriage to improve or truly reconcile after an affair is horsepucky...even if you want to go with your pseudo-logic, it's statistically HIGHLY IMPROBABLE. When I combine that with my own personal experience and observations...I don't buy it, and I that is why I reacted strongly to it.

 

I reacted strongly to his statement because I find it insulting to insinuate that every BS who stays is 'settling' or somehow foolish for doing so...because that would also include me.

 

There's the source of my strong response...it has nothing to with denial...evidence in my own life supports my conclusion that my marriage succesfully recovered, therefore his blanket statement is false.

 

No warped thinking...a-b-c thinking here.

[thomasb]

Good luck finding a decent sampling of people who post on LS > 5 years. Sorry, the sample size is small enough that it doesn't support Kane's or anyone else's theories.

 

Frankly, I can agree that some percentage of marriages that try to recover don't truly improve or change, and that often in those situations subsequent affairs are entirely possible, especially if the WS didn't have sufficient reasons to change as a result of the 'first' affair.

 

But to globally claim that any BS who stays is "sucking up what the WS gives them" and claim that it's impossible for a marriage to improve or truly reconcile after an affair is horsepucky...even if you want to go with your pseudo-logic, it's statistically HIGHLY IMPROBABLE. When I combine that with my own personal experience and observations...I don't buy it, and I that is why I reacted strongly to it.

 

I reacted strongly to his statement because I find it insulting to insinuate that every BS who stays is 'settling' or somehow foolish for doing so...because that would also include me.

 

There's the source of my strong response...it has nothing to with denial...evidence in my own life supports my conclusion that my marriage succesfully recovered, therefore his blanket statement is false.

 

No warped thinking...a-b-c thinking here.

 

Well, my dear wife and I have 17 yrs under our belts since my affair. Her trust was fully recovered in me over a decade ago. Now the affair is meerly a blip on the radar (her words) of myraid life experiences. So you could say we are living proof. And by the by, I would never cheat again. I have defenses I didn't have when I was young and dumb. At forty this year, I know now what lying and cheating in any avenue of your life does to your soul.

Edited May 26, 2011 by thomasb

[John Michael Kane]

Well, my dear wife and I have 17 yrs under our belts since my affair. Her trust was fully recovered in me over a decade ago. Now the affair is meerly a blip on the radar (her words) of myraid life experiences. So you could say we are living proof. And by the by, I would never cheat again. I have defenses I didn't have when I was young and dumb. At forty this year, I know now what lying and cheating in any avenue of your life does to your soul.

 

Young and dumb? Is that the excuse nowadays?

[nyrias]

Any person who has any decency, integrity and a concience! Are you saying you don't have those attributes?

 

You exclude all the politicians and "leaders" of our country already. Push come to shove, i wonder what is the % of human beings who actually PRACTICE those values instead of paying lip service to them.

 

Have you *ever* lied in your life (not infidelity related)?

[reboot]

Everyone lies, not everyone cheats. I can't begin to see what one has to do with the other.

[donnamaybe]

Everyone lies, not everyone cheats. I can't begin to see what one has to do with the other.

People are constantly trying to equate the two. So if I tell my girlfriend her butt does NOT look fat in those jeans, I might as well be screwing around behind my baby's back.

[thomasb]

Young and dumb? Is that the excuse nowadays?

 

If you had bothered to read back on my posts, you would have found that I have never tried to excuse what I did. I did it. I own it. I have never and will never try to make my behavior anyones fault but my own. When you grow up you find that being snarky gets you few friends!

[nyrias]

People are constantly trying to equate the two. So if I tell my girlfriend her butt does NOT look fat in those jeans, I might as well be screwing around behind my baby's back.

 

NO. I think people are constantly trying to use extreme examples to separate the two.

 

There is a continuum of lies.

 

mild - tell your girl friend her butt does not look fat

 

less mild - tell your wife you have a salad for lunch, but you actually ate a steak

 

more so - tell your wife your parents love her, but they actually look down on here.

 

a little serious - hide the fact that you are happy that a new hot girl just join your office .. although you never talk to her yet.

 

serious - you try to have more contact with the new girl (still professionally) without telling your wife

 

cheating - .. well i don't have to draw the picture, do i?

 

The point is that there is a continuum and people are everywhere in between the two extreme .. and obviously some are at the extremes.

 

It is NOT black & white.

[reboot]

Whatever the number actually is, I think it's probably way less than half.

 

Dude.

 

The divorce rate in the U.S. is more than 50%. Less than half of marriages make it period. Obviously reconciliation would be WAY less than that.

 

No one is saying some incredibly high percentage of couples survive infidelity. They're simply saying some percentage does. And they do. It's silly to argue that point.

[Snowflower]

 

I think my marriage has successfully recovered too but my fact pattern is not typical either. But for some reason I didn't take what Kane said personally.

 

No need to.

 

So you are a former betrayed spouse?

[reboot]

No, I have to disagree. The issue we were discussing is not mere "survival," but what percentage of marriages actually "get better" or improve after the affair.

 

Big difference.

 

And I have to disagree. When (most at least) people here who have been there say "survived" they mean "got better and improved after the affair". They don't mean "we managed to stay together even though we despised each other". Seriously, think about it.

[Snowflower]

And I have to disagree. When (most at least) people here who have been there say "survived" they mean "got better and improved after the affair". They don't mean "we managed to stay together even though we despised each other". Seriously, think about it.

 

Yes, that would be my definition of surviving as well although I don't apply surviving to my own situation.

[John Michael Kane]

When you grow up you find that being snarky gets you few friends!

 

Cheating also, correct?

[reboot]

OK who/where are all these successfully recovered folks? Are they posting in one of the other forums?

 

Several have posted in this thread. You just choose not to believe them. I'm not one of them, and I suppose I should be bitter enough to agree with you, but I just don't see the point.

[Snowflower]

O.K. You have been at love shack a while.

 

Who beside spark, thomasb, and owl, either in this thread or elsewhere? If you don't have any others that come to mind, that's fine, but that's the only ones I'm aware of who've posted in this thread.

 

My reconciliation is successful. 2.5 years.

[reboot]

O.K. You have been at love shack a while.

 

Who beside spark, thomasb, and owl, either in this thread or elsewhere? If you don't have any others that come to mind, that's fine, but that's the only ones I'm aware of who've posted in this thread.

 

There's actually been quite a few over the years I've been posting here. I even thought I was one of them for a while. I don't remember many of the names, and it would be pointless for me to list the ones I do remember since few of them post here anymore. Successful reconciliation ended their need for this site I suspect (and truthfully I suppose it's possible some reconciliations may have suffered a reversal but they were too ashamed to admit it here). The ones that are still here are here for reasons of their own.

[silktricks]

So all we can do is try, right?

 

O.K. So far we've got you, about 6.5 years;

 

Spark, about 3.5 years;

 

Thomasb, out 17 years but it sounds like it took several years for the recovery to be assured.

 

3 out of several hundred, or several thousand, or whatever the sample population is, I would consider a statistical "outlier." Let's say there's a few more, it's still less than 1%.

6+ here

 

But you cannot take the positive stories here and say "oh, there are very few" ergo there is only "x"%. That is specious reasoning, as you are very well aware. But that said, if there was EVEN ONLY ONE recovered marriage in the entire world, it would make Kane wrong as he says it is impossible.

 

Whatever the number actually is, I think it's probably way less than half.

 

it probably is way less than half. But way less than half is still way more than none.

 

 

 

 

No I am not just talking about more cheating later on. I am also talking about relationships like drifter777's, where the parties stay married but there's not really anything one could fairly call "better than before the affair" marriage.

 

 

 

But it's not my pseudo-logic. I've repeatedly said that I think Kane is literally wrong. But you have to be realistic. You, Spark, and thomasb are clearly the exceptions. That's what makes you stick out like sore thumbs here.

no, again, you don't get it. People generally don't stay and keep posting. Some of us hung around. Others not so much, but regqrdless LS is not a microcosm of the broader world, and cannot be assumed to be such.

How come there is only ONE male former wayward spouse of longstanding, with a recovered marriage, i.e. thomasb, who ever even posts here? Rare as a purple unicorn.

no causation or correlation with what you are claiming, as there are many reasons why people do or do not post..

Even YOUR situation doesn't really "count" if we restrict things to recovery from affairs involving actual sex between the affair partners.

 

And Spark, while I am happy for her and respect her, has only been out 3.5 years.

 

Are there ANY former wayward wives currently posting, who had been involved in sexual affairs, and who can fairly say that their marriages are better than before, and are at least two - three years out from their affairs, and fully recovered?

 

see above

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like I said I'm the very first poster in this thread who suggested that marriages can recover from affairs, but the fact of the matter is, there's not very much in the way of proof to support that kind of optimism.

 

 

 

 

A lot of people would take the view that what Kane said doesn't even really apply to you since you stopped it dead in its tracks before it got physical.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think my marriage has successfully recovered too but my fact pattern is not typical either. But for some reason I didn't take what Kane said personally.

 

No need to.

 

Whoopee for you. Maybe after you've been here and bared your soul for a number of years about some pretty gut wrenching stuff you will also react to someone who is calling the basic premise of your life a lie... And not just once, but time after time after time

[thomasb]

6+ here

.

 

no, again, you don't get it. People generally don't stay and keep posting. Some of us hung around. Others not so much, but regqrdless LS is not a microcosm of the broader world, and cannot be assumed to be such.

no causation or correlation with what you are claiming, as there are many reasons why people do or do not post..

see above

 

 

 

I have great employees and my office practically runs itself. I spend mornings drafting. But, the afternoons can get a little boring. If posting here helps one person out of either having an affair, or getting out of one... it's worth my time.

[Spark1111]

6+ here

.

 

no, again, you don't get it. People generally don't stay and keep posting. Some of us hung around. Others not so much, but regqrdless LS is not a microcosm of the broader world, and cannot be assumed to be such.

no causation or correlation with what you are claiming, as there are many reasons why people do or do not post..

see above

 

 

 

I have great employees and my office practically runs itself. I spend mornings drafting. But, the afternoons can get a little boring. If posting here helps one person out of either having an affair, or getting out of one... it's worth my time.

 

That;s how I feel as my job ebbs and flows on certain days. I come back to help others. It is who I am.

 

Janey Amazed, anne1707 are two FWW who post here.

 

I do not believe LS can be used as any sort of proof of anything. Many people who have succesfully reconciled their marriages may not like the idea of blogging, own a computer, or seek counsel from strangers on the internet. They certainly do NOT have to prove it to anonymous strangers on the internet!

 

I assume for those of us who post and return, we find writing of our lives and receiving feedback therapeutic. THAT is the only assumption I could or would make from LS.

 

Similiar to other forums and web sites; when they have served their purpose to the poster, the poster moves on from LS.

[Spark1111]

Wow, GG, you really, really need to be right. Correct and Exact to the tee, don'tcha!

 

That does not bode well for relational success.

 

Who knows how many and who cares?

 

I have read elsewhere that 95% of all BS will briefly, initially attempt reconciliation.

 

I have read that if the WS is truly remorseful but still omits, trickle-truths, lies about the affair, there is a 55% chance of remaining married.

 

If the WS is both remorseful, and fully transparent, and does whatever the BS needs them to do to restore trust, it climbs to 87% remaining married.

 

Succesful? Define successful? In a marriage it is how the two people in it define "successful."

 

Happy now?

[ladydesigner]

Wow, GG, you really, really need to be right. Correct and Exact to the tee, don'tcha!

 

That does not bode well for relational success.

 

Who knows how many and who cares?

 

I have read elsewhere that 95% of all BS will briefly, initially attempt reconciliation.

 

I have read that if the WS is truly remorseful but still omits, trickle-truths, lies about the affair, there is a 55% chance of remaining married.

 

If the WS is both remorseful, and fully transparent, and does whatever the BS needs them to do to restore trust, it climbs to 87% remaining married.

 

Succesful? Define successful? In a marriage it is how the two people in it define "successful."

 

Happy now?

 

Great post Spark. Your post made my day:D

[donnamaybe]

Wow, GG, you really, really need to be right. Correct and Exact to the tee, don'tcha!

 

That does not bode well for relational success.

Boy, you sure got THAT right!

 

So I guess it's not just me then.

 

I can certainly understand why Owl got PO'd at the knee jerk DA replies about HIS life. As if anyone on a message board knows better. Hell, these people can't even run their OWN lives properly.

[Spark1111]

Boy, you sure got THAT right!

 

So I guess it's not just me then.

 

I can certainly understand why Owl got PO'd at the knee jerk DA replies about HIS life. As if anyone on a message board knows better. Hell, these people can't even run their OWN lives properly.

 

How do WE scentifically PROVE and QUANTIFY happiness using poster proof on an anonymous internet site?

 

What IF the happy reconcilers do not post on LS? OMG!

 

If they are not posting here, it must NOT BE TRUE.

 

Here's a premise: I AM HAPPY, DAMMIT!

 

Now prove otherwise!

[donnamaybe]

How do WE scentifically PROVE and QUANTIFY happiness using poster proof on an anonymous internet site?

Impossible.

 

What IF the happy reconcilers do not post on LS? OMG!

Indeed!

 

If they are not posting here, it must NOT BE TRUE.

...through the eyes of a blind man, perhaps.

 

Here's a premise: I AM HAPPY, DAMMIT!

Well, I could certainly tell when you started your reconciliation sex thread which, unfortunately, was shut down due to some bitter posters.

 

Now prove otherwise!

Well, you'll probably now endure a bunch of hogwash filled with absolutes and generalizations, but you know what they say. Opinions are like A holes. Everybody's got one.