GF stolen by PUA

[coin80]

Hi,

 

I posted in a thread on GIGS before. But after I obtained some additional information on my ex's new BF it appears that she was seduced by a PUA using a bf-destruction technique. I read up about this stuff on the internet.

 

Does anyone have any experience with this? I know it is somewhat unsual. We were in a LTR of 6 yrs and agreed to be in LDR from Oct10 till May11. BU occurred in Feb11.

He totally turned her into just wanting to party etc, forget about her former career ambitions and wanting family.

She will be 30 this year, he just turned 27.

She was pushing to get engaged with me and start a family this year.

 

Any comments would be much appreciated, especially from self-declared PUAs or women, but anyone's POV would be great really.

 

My story:

My ex (29) left me (30) in January for another guy after a 6 year relationship. We have been in a LDR since Ocotber as I am spending 9 months abroad for professional reasons. We were in a LDR before for 7 months at one point, no prob. She has been very intent on becoming engaged in 2010. She even sent me an online link for the right engagement ring for her. She came to visit me in October for a week, we had a good time, but I didn't propose and she was disappointed but we didn't talk about it then.

 

Around November 2010 she got to know someone at work who started hitting on her. She spent some time with me and my family over Xmas at our house and asked when we would see each other again. She absolutely adores my parents and saw them as the perfect parents-in-law.

 

To cut a long story short: she fell for the other guy who exerted pressure on her to dump me. In late January she told me that she had met someone else and her feelings had changed. I told her that I had thought about proposing in spring '11. She was surprised and said had she known she would not have let the other guy approach her. Then she grew more and more distant, first asking for a break. I made all the usual mistakes, told her to think twice, whether she really wanted to throw 6 years away for a potential fling, that it is normal to experience disenchantment in a LTR, etc.

We decided that we should see each other and I visited her in late February. She then confided that she had already cheated on me with the other guy and that they were behaving like a couple.

Also, the other guy used told her, if you don't dump your LTR bf now, I will break up contact with you. She says that she loves him, but she knows he is not the right one for her. She is 29, he was 26 then, now 27!

 

We broke up and she told me that she had already made a decision, wanted to experience something new now. She is working in a bank and was always really ambitious and I supported her with her plans. The other guy (also works there, but has according to her zero ambition and just wants to enjoy life).

 

We broke up and she is now with the other guy. I went NC directly after my visit, but there were still lots of my stuff in her flat. My parents dropped by to collect my stuff and she simply told them that she wanted to remain in touch with them. That she had doubts about our relationship for the last two years (why on earth she was pushing for getting engaged and talking about children all the time, plus sending me cards that everything was so swell only God knows).

 

She has been sending me messages throughout March, using letters that arrived for me at her address as a pretext and then told me about all the things she was up to (except for her new bf). I replied some days later in a reserved, polite and terse way. She sent a few more messages enquiring how I was and what my future plans were. How she was doing not so well professionally etc. Again I replied NC-style, very terse.

 

Now she is no longer sending messages. I know through friends that she and the other guy are still together, having the occasional tiff, but she is trying to establish a new relationship.

 

As she left me for another guy, I don't think this is a rebound, but rather GIGS if anything.

 

Is there anything to do but 100% NC. Is LC a better option here? Using her occasional messages, should they sill come, as a pretext to convey anything?

 

During the breakup she told me things like, maybe we still have a future. The other guy is so different. I want to experience this now, etc, etc.

 

I know the other guy is very pushy, even not allowing her to see long term male friends of hers (totally harmless) as he gets jealous. She respects all of that and seems to try to please his antics.

 

Very bizarre. I got my mind set on simply letting her go. I am 1000s of miles away and can't do anything anyway. But then she tries to keep in touch and she kind of panicked briefly when I told her that I don't think we will remain good friends. But now she seems to be over it and she created a narrative according to which she was unhappy for a long time in our relationship and the other guy opened her eyes.

 

Note: she has been very pushy about having kids for the last 2 years (she'll be 30 this year) but now told me that she no longer wants kids, maybe adopt in the future.

 

 

Thanks for your comments, it's much appreciated.

[marqueemoon4]

PUA = pickup artist?

[PegNosePete]

What, so this guy has telepathic powers?

He is Prof Xavier or something, he can mind control people to doing what he wants?

SHE did it.

It was HER choice to believe what he was telling her and to respond.

He didn't hold a gun to her head.

Nobody can "steal" anyone's GF (or BF) unless they want to be stolen. If they do, it's called kidnap.

She went with him voluntarily.

 

Yeah let her go dude, NC all the way.

BTW "replying NC style" means, err, not replying

[betterdeal]

Sounds like about-to-hit-thirty jitters. She'll be banging the boss in six months, then a plumber, then her dealer, some guy she meets on a bus, the cast of Les Miserables etc. She wants to experience as much fun as she can before she gets old.

 

So, you're about to hit thirty too. Why not follow her lead and live a little? I can assure you, you will have a lot more fun boning the cute waitress in your favourite bar, making love to a sexually liberated but frustrated mid-forties housewife, and some random chick you don't speak a word to, you just gravitate to one another in a club and f*ck in the toilets. And in 4-5 years time after lots of casual sex then an in-between, not-the-real-thing-but-we'll-pretend-it-is relationship with a poor facsimile of your ex, you'll both be single, and more stable, and not have any grudges, and settle down together.

 

For the sake of your relationship with this woman in five years time, change your phone number, and go and get laid!

[oldguy]

Walk away. She cheated, she left you, she's with someone else. Tell her you don't want to be friends with her & to forward your mail somewhere else.

Tell her to have a nice life. You need to stop caring about her being 30 & wanting kids or that he miss-treats her. She's a big girl.

I it sounds cold but; walk away. Go through the grieving period and do better for yourself.

[Ajax]

During the breakup she told me things like, maybe we still have a future. The other guy is so different. I want to experience this now, etc, etc.

 

 

She believes that she can come back whenever it's convenient for her and you'll be waiting on the shelf ready to jump back in. What a wonderfully good deal for both of you! Now if you could only convince yourself that she deserves this chance to go out and explore other options and sew her wild oats (is that what we call it for women, or is it just men?) and that because you love her so much, you'll take the emotional hit and let her do what she needs to do.

 

She being about as selfish as she can get. She wants her cake and wants you to hold onto your cake so she can have it when she gets hungry again.

 

She needs to learn that there are consequences in life, and that when you leave someone for someone else/cheat on them, the consequence is that you give them up. They're gone. You can't undo that. She also made the calculated risk that she will find someone who makes her happier than you do. I know it hurts to hear, but let's call a duck a duck.

 

I think the best thing you can do for yourself is to keep up that wall of NC. Hold her accountable for her actions ad her choices. And whatever you do, don't blame yourself for what she does. She quite clearly doesn't know what she wants, and probably hasn't for quite some time.

 

Go your way, let her go hers.

[coin80]

Well, she said the other guy seduced her real quick and now she couldn't let him go. She kept saying "I need a break". I told her that's no break, that's terminating our LTR as you are leaving me for someone else. She cried etc. Then said again that she didn'T like the last two years of our relationship. I asked her so why were you pushing to get engaged then. She didnt have an answer, but told her friends that I was the "right one", but now she had doubts. The other guy is definitely not "the right one" for her she said, but she also claims that he opened her eyes. No kids, no job advancement, just fun (going out every night, etc).

 

Weird, no?

 

Also re: kids, she's been basically bringing the issue up regularly for the last two years. Plus really pushing for engagement until October/Nov last year. Then she got to know the other guy and all of a sudden she says she was not happy anymore. But then says that had I given her an engagement ring, she would not have touched him.

 

I'll surely let her go, still think it is weird.

 

She has been very embarrassed about the entire thing. That's why she is saying she had all those doubts, but then can't explain why she did not mention it beforehands.

 

I should add that the break up was stretched out over a month during which she was very ambivalent. She was drawn to the other guy and he was pushing but she didn't want to lose me. So she said maybe we can have a "break". I said that's not a break. Even after she told me it is over and I went to see her anyway to collect some of my stuff and speak to her face-to-face, she was crying and saying things like, "no, I will have to lose the other guy, but now I really like him". "Neither he nor you is the right one."

Her criterion for ending the relationship was that it could simply not be true that she might develop feelings for another person. If that was the case, our relationship must be dead. I said that is not SO unusual in a viable LTR, as disenchantment inevitably sets in at some point. Up to you whether you want to work on things. She said she did, but the other guy kept pushing and convinced her that she was fundamentally unhappy.

Now she is casting everything aside, her family plans, her professional ambition, just to please this moron.

 

I'll let her go, but not w/o a good dose of remorse.

[PegNosePete]

Dude sounds like you did nothing wrong.

She cheated and tried to justify her actions.

Then tried to justify them again using a different excuse.

Everything she's said is just excuses to avoid facing the reality, that she cheated on you.

[Chi townD]

Well, time to let her go and time for YOU to start enjoying life rather than worrying about what she's doing and who she's doing it with. You need to go completely NC with her. Delete her off your Facebook page if you have one. Don't answer her letters, e-mails, texts or phone calls.

 

Remember, she wanted you out of her life and that's EXACTLY what you should give her. You are never gonna fully heal until you can get her out of your head. She made her bed, now she will have to lay in it. You are not her back-up plan. You should not be in her future just because she says so. Someone she can fall back on once she gets bored. I mean, MY GOD! SHE CHEATED ON YOU! That should be enough motivation to move on right there!

[Ajax]

But then says that had I given her an engagement ring, she would not have touched him.

 

You have no reason to believe this. I don't want to get all "judgy," but she has no moral compass right now. She doesn't know what she would have done in the situation, just what she likes to think she might have done.

 

It really comes down to a lack of direction and discipline on her part. And a scoop of unbridled selfishness on top.

 

I don't mean to demonize this girl, you were with her for years and I'm sure she has many positive qualities. And she may honestly be unable to help herself. She's a loose cannon. A rogue elephant. A bull in a china shop. Destructive. And unfortunately you ended up getting hurt. The only thing you can do is to minimize and ideally eliminate any future damage to you.

 

I'll let her go, but not w/o a good dose of remorse.

 

I see no shame in this. You'll still need to greive the relationship. Mourn the future that was lost with her. Start the process of healing. Stay true to yourself.

[nyc_guy2003]

The other guy doesn't sound like a true pick up artist, don't those guys only go in for the quick one-nighter and then disappear? I didn't know pick up artists picked girls up to have long-term relationships with.

[betterdeal]

I see no shame in this. You'll still need to greive the relationship. Mourn the future that was lost with her. Start the process of healing. Stay true to yourself.

 

And go out and get laid.

[coin80]

The other guy doesn't sound like a true pick up artist, don't those guys only go in for the quick one-nighter and then disappear? I didn't know pick up artists picked girls up to have long-term relationships with.

 

Not really, but she basically bargained with him. You won't get anywhere with me unless you commit cos I got a BF. She was scared that he might just abandon her and forget about her for a while when he went on vacation. That's when she told him that she would definitely ditch me but needed some time.

 

The reason I suspect PUA is that he basically started convincing her that she is unhappy with me whereas she wanted to get married etc until a few weeks ago. He planted doubts in her mind. Sure she was open to all of this, it is not that PUA are Jedi or anything, it is just a trademark technique that probably would not work on anyone who does not like you in the first place.

 

But I'm posting here, nevertheless, as I'd like to hear from some self-identified PUAs what they'd do if their "target" basically says: yes, but only if you commit to a serious RS will I ditch my BF for you. Otherwise forget about it. He went along.

 

My ex is very very pretty and would be a trophy GF for just about any guy. This guy is VERY narcissistic and jealous. Really put pressure on her to ditch me while she still wanted to have her cake and eat it.

[homebrew]

I think you are making a mistake worrying about the "other" guy. He didn't use some Jedi Mind Trick, put a gun to her head or threaten to kill her. She CHOOSE to want to enter into a relationship with him.

 

If she is that foolish to fall for some sleeze bag then count your lucky stars and be glad that you were not married to her. Do you think it would you would have had a different outcome if you were married? The answer is no!

 

This isn't about you... She simply doesn't know what she wants and is out their trying to figure that out. It just so happens, this loser is part of that exploration at the present moment.

 

My advice,

 

1. Go NC

2. Grief the loss

3. Move Forward

4. Find someone that knows what she wants

 

There is a reason you dated her for 6 years and never asked her to marry you... Tell us about that... That might be more productive than talking about some loser that isn't going to be around for very long.

[Art_Critic]

GF stolen by PUA

 

If this is true then she was never yours to begin with.. something to think about

[coin80]

I think you are making a mistake worrying about the "other" guy. He didn't use some Jedi Mind Trick, put a gun to her head or threaten to kill her. She CHOOSE to want to enter into a relationship with him.

 

 

I totally agree, my thread title is misleading in that sense. What I was tring to convey is that, based on what I heard he tried on her - and I understand that there is no causal relationship between his "tricks" and her falling for him - this really smells like PUA approach. Hence, I thought it is plausible (though not certain) to conlude that the guy thinks of himself as a PUA. This guess is backed up by looking at his FB profile which only shows pics of himself "posing" in ludicrous and self-enamoured postures (no sense of irony or humility whatever), nightclubbing, drinking, and hanging out with former GFs and other, mediocre girls that seem to venerate him on the pics.

 

So much for him.

 

I don't worry much about the guy, just wondered how a self-identified PUA who just turned 27 will react once his new "victim" starts asking for kids etc as her clock begins to tick again?

[collegeguy_24]

She cheated on you man, have some self respect.

 

If she contacts you again, tell her she cheated, you will never forgive her and you will never be her friend, and to go to hell.

 

After that, go NC, do not contact her and do not respond to her if she contacts you.

[coin80]

 

There is a reason you dated her for 6 years and never asked her to marry you... Tell us about that... That might be more productive than talking about some loser that isn't going to be around for very long.

 

There are several reasons. I am in grad school and about to finish, I wanted to propose at a time I finished and have a stable job this spring/summer, I got lots of very decent job offers now.

 

However, for us it was a forgone conclusion. We were so close that there was no doubt, in my mind, that we would end up together.

 

Another reason was her pushiness: She really insisted regulalrly that she wanted a family soon. This sort of pushing certainly made me hesitate but not forever and I was getting ready to propose with the right job and life perspective in mind.

 

She never, not once, said to me: well, I said this many times now and this is important to me. It is really a problem and renders me insecure or just bothers me. I'm not sure I see a future here. Or something like that.

 

Instead: sent me cards saying how great everything was, how much she appreciated spending "quality time" with me rather than simply hanging out every day.

[dreamingoftigers]

Honestly the engagement sounds like a recurring theme in your LTR. she probably was feeling very strung along the last two years and wasn't getting any younger. You seem to genuinely care for her but be a little slow on the uptake. I.e. She presses for engagement and you decide maybe about 1.5 years later. She breaks up with you in Feb and you are posting here at the end of May. Please don't be offended, just what I can see from her perspective. And no, I am not saying that she handled it the right way at all. Also the taking months to put it together seems to be a bit of a "guy thing." women have more connective tissues between hemispheres so we tend to connect emotion and action much quicker. Guys have more tissues clumped together giving them strength at individualized tasks. Thinking about your "feelings" may come long after figuring out what career move to make next etc.

[coin80]

She cheated on you man, have some self respect.

 

If she contacts you again, tell her she cheated, you will never forgive her and you will never be her friend, and to go to hell.

 

Thanks for your comment. OK, since several posters take this line, I think I should add one thing.

 

When she first broke the news to me that she had met another guy, she told me on the phone - remember between Fall 2010 and till now this was a LDR.

 

Back then, they had only made out. I then started fighting for her, telling her that we should see each other, that I had thought about proposing soon, etc etc. She said she needed time. I knew I was gonna lose the battle if I say, well if you don't avoid all contact now, I'm gone. Don't make the mistake of touching this guy again. That's ridiculous. So I tried a different approach: I told her that I understood some of her disappointment in our recent LDR and LTR as a whole, but that her wish to get married soon made me confident that we can go through this phase together and that we are resilient. Of course, I said, there is the inevitable disenchantment in a 6 yr LTR, that's just normal. I don't have butterflies anymore, and if you had until recently, then I'm glad that it lasted so long but also surprised. I have developed emotional connections to other people thr our 6 yrs (nothing ever happened, but it is normal), but I put it into perspective. Sometimes you get the urge and wonder what might be out there, but then you look back at what you have and just know it's good - with all its flaws.

 

Blablabla, didn't do a thing. I went at one point, when I was certain she had cheated on me so far to say: It deeply saddens me and I'm hurt, but even infidelity is not so uncommon, it happens. I don't want to promise you anything, but do you want to work on things. No clear answer again.

 

I think she took this understanding approach as a "permission" to cheat somehow.

 

Anyway, what happened, happened.

 

Yes, I'm moving on. I just think it is a shame cos you do build up levels of trust, companionship and understanding that aren't that easily achieved in a 6 yr RS. It is like an edifice. Why treat this, even if you fall for someone else, like it's been only 6 months and has no value? She seems fine with that.

 

I know NC helps the healing process, but it also seals the deal. We are estranged now and I mean beyond the point of split-up.

[coin80]

Honestly the engagement sounds like a recurring theme in your LTR. she probably was feeling very strung along the last two years and wasn't getting any younger. You seem to genuinely care for her but be a little slow on the uptake. I.e. She presses for engagement and you decide maybe about 1.5 years later. She breaks up with you in Feb and you are posting here at the end of May. Please don't be offended, just what I can see from her perspective. And no, I am not saying that she handled it the right way at all. Also the taking months to put it together seems to be a bit of a "guy thing." women have more connective tissues between hemispheres so we tend to connect emotion and action much quicker. Guys have more tissues clumped together giving them strength at individualized tasks. Thinking about your "feelings" may come long after figuring out what career move to make next etc.

 

Point taken. I can empathise with that and I think this is what she must have thought at least at one point in time.

 

But why not give me a chance to explain? Why cast everything to the wind. She has lots of issues and problems (we all do) and I had to deal with them constantly.

One of my problems is certainly procrastination - and planning perfectionism (never works out), true. She knows that.

 

So one of her arguments was: Now that there is a 3rd person, you want to give me the ring, that's not sincere. I said: of course it is still sincere, been meaning to do this anyway, but understandably the situation changed.

 

Yes, I'm posting this months after the fact. Visited some other forums, too. But all I heard there was NC, NC, NC all the way. There is something to that, and it is the thing I did - almost by default. But even months after the fact, I'd like to comprehend what went wrong here and whether there might be ways to handle it differently.

 

Maybe not. That's life I guess.

[homebrew]

But why not give me a chance to explain?

 

It has been my experience that women are very deliberate and take their time on deciding if the relationship should be ended or not. They do not make these decisions in haste. Once they do decide to end it, IT IS DONE! So trying to justify your actions (or lack there of) or reason with them... is pointless and futile.

 

It took your Ex a LONG TIME (I imagine the last 2 Years) to get to

. Once she got there, your goose was cooked! Game Over Man!

 

The new dude was an enabler. He gave her the courage and strength to end things with you. He served his purpose and he is only a rebound at this point. She will be done with him soon enough.

Edited May 24, 2011 by homebrew

[coin80]

It has been my experience that women are deliberate and take their time on deciding if the relationship should be ended. Once they do decide to end it, IT IS DONE! So trying to justify your actions (or lack there of) or reason with them... is futile and will fall on deaf ears.

 

It took your Ex a LONG TIME (I imagine the last 2 Years) to get to

. Once she got there, your goose was cooked! Game Over Man!

 

The new dude was an enabler. He gave her the courage and strength to end things with you. Don't worry... She will be done with him shortly.

 

I so wish that was true as I could then understand what happened at least.

 

Sadly, your interpretation is not borne out by events. Before I left for my time abroad in Oct10 her she asked me for a "contract" once, semi-facetiously. Before she visited me over here she sent me several online links to engagement rings (even giving me her exact size) so that we could get engaged in Nov10 if I wanted to.

 

Would you do that, if you've emotionally checked out of a relationship and are just waiting for an enabler to come along?

 

When I didn't give her the ring in Nov10, yes, she was deeply disappointed and I realised that. Hence, I was shooting for spring so that I could also offer her several options: let's take this to the next level, where would you like to live, what are you preferences, here I got a better salary, there we got better conditions for raising kids.

 

It never came to that though.

[homebrew]

I so wish that was true as I could then understand what happened at least.

 

Sadly, your interpretation is not borne out by events. Before I left for my time abroad in Oct10 her she asked me for a "contract" once, semi-facetiously. Before she visited me over here she sent me several online links to engagement rings (even giving me her exact size) so that we could get engaged in Nov10 if I wanted to.

 

Would you do that, if you've emotionally checked out of a relationship and are just waiting for an enabler to come along?

 

When I didn't give her the ring in Nov10, yes, she was deeply disappointed and I realised that. Hence, I was shooting for spring so that I could also offer her several options: let's take this to the next level, where would you like to live, what are you preferences, here I got a better salary, there we got better conditions for raising kids.

 

It never came to that though.

 

All the women that I have run your story by have said the same exact same thing.

 

Which is...

 

"He didn't step up to the plate. She went from disappointed, frustrated to angry and then was DONE. Your WORDS meant NOTHING TO HER because you DIDN'T FOLLOW THROUGH with them."

 

Another guy came around and told her what she wanted to hear and since she was so over you due to you prolonging the marriage proposal... She thought she would give it a whirl.

 

Don't shoot the messenger, I am not a women and I don't understand either... But according to my sources, When a Women wants to get married or have a baby... PLAY TIME IS OVER!

[marqueemoon4]

i think its interesting in every case people say the OM won't be around long and rebound relationships never work blah blah.. no one really knows.