Is being involved in an affair humiliating?

[OWoman]

Also, yes I read a thread on another site of ow discussing the things they did when they were ow that they could not believe they actually did. I find it hard to believe that not every ow, cheater, or betrayed does not have an embarrassing humiliating feeling about the whole affair ordeal.

 

Not every OW does those kind of things. In fact, I'm sure very few OW do. Perhaps the "other site" where OWs listed those kinds of things draws a different "type" of OW, the kind who does skulk around in the shadows and leap when the MM says leap, but I'd guess that OWs like that are in the minority. I don't see someone like Katherine Hepburn ducking down in Spencer Tracey's car, or Simone de Beauvoir jumping for a 6am "booty call" from Jean-Paul Sartre, and most of the OWs I know IRL are as independent and self-sufficient as they are.

 

I mean, I can't call by MM at home this weekend because he is with the W and kids, is something I would find difficult.

 

Again, not all As follow that pattern, and for some that do, it is often a mutual thing. I would certainly not have tolerated an MM dropping by my house unscheduled, and I would not have considered dropping by any of theirs unannounced. Nor would I have dropped by a SG lover's unannounced, or allowed him to drop by my house unannounced either. That privilege is reserved for a very small inner circle of friends only!

 

In the case on an OW (or anyone for that matter) who sees no wrong in what they are doing, IMO, there can be no humility.

 

There is a difference between humiliation and humility, but if you substitute "humiliation" where you've written "humility", I agree with your point. I don't agree that humility is impossible if one does not consider what one is doing to be wrong - Mother Theresa performed charitable works that she would not have considered to be wrong, with great humility.

 

The old adage is true: People treat us the way we treat ourselves.

 

Which may explain why in some As the OWs are treated well, with great respect, while in others they are treated badly.

[donnamaybe]

Which may explain why in some As the OWs are treated well, with great respect, while in others they are treated badly.

I think when an AP "knows their place" (wherever that place may be as defined by the WS) the MM/MW will treat them just fine.

[Silly_Girl]

I think when an AP "knows their place" (wherever that place may be as defined by the WS) the MM/MW will treat them just fine.

 

Donna - please expand on this? A real-life example (whether an actual occurrence or not) would be a great help.

[East7]

OMG East we are always on the same page...I agree with you totally.

 

I do remember a instance when xMW met for coffee in the morning before her work. I was taking her back to her office and we were driving down the street when she saw her co-worker. At the time she was holding my hand and when we drove by and she she immediately pulled her hand. I drive a SUV and it stands kinda tall and where are hands were there is no way anyone could have seen our hands holding. FML

 

Sorry I have been too busy to answer earlier.

 

That's very painful C4N..I can imagine how you felt. MW and I were in a car once, she was driving and at some lightstop some friends of her H stopped by and waived at her. She freaked the hell out

 

 

I, the faithful spouse, was sooooooo humiliated! How could I not know? Was I stupid? Blind? Too trusting? Yes, to all of the above.

 

So, East, do you think this is something you only realize in hind sight?

 

Did you feel this way during the affair? Or did you deny, justify, or compartmentlize it?

 

Confused, please answer too, if you want to.

 

Spark, first of all i understand your frustration for not seeing the red flags. I think the benefit of trust to WS is stronger than the doubts.

 

Second, no I didnt need much insight to realize that. I was VERY conscious at those moments..I was like "G0d, why do I have to endure this for the woman I love" but the feelings, the addiction and fog were stronger than some small humiliations.

 

Funny thing is that MW was telling me how much she is doing to make me happy. She was like "I'm putting my family on hold to please you"...We were both focused to our respective reality. She was sorry for herself, I was sorry for me...still staying in the A because as she used to stay "our love is bigger than anything else".

[bloppy]

Being a BS I was humiliated by my H's affair. He had an affair with a coworker & everyone he worked with knew it. The OW got pregnant so they really couldn't hide it. I know the OW was humiliated once the affair was over & he didn't leave me to be with her(I read it one of her emails).

 

I would imagine that while the affair is going on they don't think about the humiliation. I think most of the points in the questions asked would only add to the excitement of the A. Once the affair is over I think the OW would be at least embarrassed if not humiliated to have done the things asked in the questions. But that is just my opinion.

[OWoman]

I think when an AP "knows their place" (wherever that place may be as defined by the WS) the MM/MW will treat them just fine.

 

As a fOW, I certainly was the one who defined "my place", and I was treated more than "just fine". I can't say I know any OW IRL who "knows their place" (as defined by the WS) or who would feel anything but outrage at the mere suggestion!

 

I know you claim not to have been an OW or a WS or a BS, so what personal experience of yours is this claim based on - or is it just supposition?

[donnamaybe]

Donna - please expand on this? A real-life example (whether an actual occurrence or not) would be a great help.

Any situation where the OW/OM doesn't make waves, doesn't ask the MM/MW to leave their spouse, doesn't threaten to "tell," doesn't make phone calls during "those times" when the spouse might be around. One who, basically, knows all the rules to keeping the A secret and the MM/MW happy with the status quo.

 

I know there are some A situations where the AP is perfectly happy with that. Others, not so much.

[OWoman]

I think most of the points in the questions asked would only add to the excitement of the A.

 

I can honestly say I've never seen or heard of an OW - either on these boards or IRL - claiming that skulking around and being a booty call was "exciting".

[donnamaybe]

As a fOW, I certainly was the one who defined "my place", and I was treated more than "just fine". I can't say I know any OW IRL who "knows their place" (as defined by the WS) or who would feel anything but outrage at the mere suggestion!

 

I know you claim not to have been an OW or a WS or a BS, so what personal experience of yours is this claim based on - or is it just supposition?

I've read on another forum of an OW of 10 (yes - I said TEN) years who was tossed under the bus just because the MM THOUGHT his W might have found something out. She was very upset - was dropped via text message. He came back after the dust settled, and she's ready to let him back in.

 

She most definitely "knows her place" in that her particular MM wouldn't be in the A with her unless she was resigned to being his well kept secret - even to the point where she is tossed away like yesterday's news, but still lets him back in when he crooks his little pinky.

[OWoman]

Any situation where the OW/OM doesn't make waves, doesn't ask the MM/MW to leave their spouse, doesn't threaten to "tell," doesn't make phone calls during "those times" when the spouse might be around. One who, basically, knows all the rules to keeping the A secret and the MM/MW happy with the status quo.

 

I know there are some A situations where the AP is perfectly happy with that. Others, not so much.

 

If the OW is "perfectly happy" with that, why the assumption that she "knows her place" and is simply conforming to the demands made by the MM? Surely if she's genuinely happy with that, it's as likely that she set the parameters as it is that he did... else she wouldn't be so happy, would she? If someone was merely conforming, they'd wouldn't be "perfectly happy".

[OWoman]

I've read on another forum of an OW of 10 (yes - I said TEN) years who was tossed under the bus just because the MM THOUGHT his W might have found something out. She was very upset - was dropped via text message. He came back after the dust settled, and she's ready to let him back in.

 

She most definitely "knows her place" in that her particular MM wouldn't be in the A with her unless she was resigned to being his well kept secret - even to the point where she is tossed away like yesterday's news, but still lets him back in when he crooks his little pinky.

 

So the assumption is based on that information about a single case written on a forum of an OW who doesn't actually meet the criteria - she wasn't treated well, even though she supposedly "knew her place". How does that evidence actually support the argument you were trying to make?

 

And how does my (very real) counter-example support your claim when it shows that OWs can be treated far better than "just fine" when THEY call the shots instead of "knowing their place" as defined by the MM? :confused:

[waytogo]

Being a BS I was humiliated by my H's affair. He had an affair with a coworker & everyone he worked with knew it. The OW got pregnant so they really couldn't hide it. I know the OW was humiliated once the affair was over & he didn't leave me to be with her(I read it one of her emails).

 

I would imagine that while the affair is going on they don't think about the humiliation. I think most of the points in the questions asked would only add to the excitement of the A. Once the affair is over I think the OW would be at least embarrassed if not humiliated to have done the things asked in the questions. But that is just my opinion.

 

Bloppy, I'm so sorry to read YOU felt humiliated by your H's A. It wasn't your action. Hopefully you at worse feel humiliated FOR him and his actions.

 

As far as not thinking of humiliation while A ongoing. That was true for me during some points of feeling happy; but not true for the long run. It really haunted me that any day this could come out. Besides that, every trip I took, every family gathering or work event that included SO's, why was I alone?!? Because in reality, I was alone. No vacation or any other time that could be stolen changed that I was A L O N E. If I can't introduce you to my family and all of my friends, you are not with me, even if you find some time to be with me that works around what you do announce to the world.

 

Sorry, off track. Thankfully I didn't do any of the things asked in the questions. Better, I was only invited to do 2 of them, go to an event where then MM would be with W and 2 go to their home when she was away. I declined both. Actually, both invitations probably shortened his time with me. At least as far as these 2 ideas went, I had more respect for his BW than he did. That's not saying much I know. I never was against her. My actions were against her at the time, but I wasn't seeing that for a while.

[donnamaybe]

So the assumption is based on that information about a single case written on a forum of an OW who doesn't actually meet the criteria - she wasn't treated well, even though she supposedly "knew her place". How does that evidence actually support the argument you were trying to make?

 

And how does my (very real) counter-example support your claim when it shows that OWs can be treated far better than "just fine" when THEY call the shots instead of "knowing their place" as defined by the MM? :confused:

She seems to have been treated quite well UNTIL the you-know-what hit the fan. "Her place" includes knowing how to make her MM happy, which is to be there when he wants her, but NOT when he doesn't.

 

And if there is ONE case, there are others, and most of them NOT on a public forum.

 

You asked, I answered.

[donnamaybe]

So the assumption is based on that information about a single case written on a forum of an OW who doesn't actually meet the criteria - she wasn't treated well, even though she supposedly "knew her place". How does that evidence actually support the argument you were trying to make?

 

And how does my (very real) counter-example support your claim when it shows that OWs can be treated far better than "just fine" when THEY call the shots instead of "knowing their place" as defined by the MM? :confused:

That's why I said there are some who just don't care - those who wouldn't want a full time with their WS.

 

I could pull out 1,000 examples, and I would still be told they aren't enough.

[ladydesigner]

I felt humiliated not because of my XOM ending the A, but the way he ended it.

 

He ended the A via email

 

One of his reasons for ending was because of the age difference (which I agree but it was still humiliating in that I was being called "too old")

 

He stated that his feelings for his gf were stronger than he had thought.

 

He stated that he wasn't a liar (I guess he thought I was the only one lying, yet he was betraying his gf of 5 years:rolleyes:)

 

He asked me "Did you honestly think this was going to work out?" And honestly no I never thought it would work out, but it hurt to hear that and was humiliating nonetheless.

 

Most of my humiliation came after ending not during the A.

[26pointblue]

Here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t116968/

 

It wasn't hard to find.

 

No wonder.

 

Oh wow that was really sad to read. And sobering because it sounded so much like xMM's BW. It could have been her writing it!

 

I'm sorry GreenGoddess.

 

Wow I feel so down today.

[26pointblue]

I feel a little conflicted here, I don't know gg's intent with that post, maybe she generally was trying to understand or maybe she just wanted to see who would confirm some of the ow here do or have done her examples.

 

We all know gg is short and to the point and she is very blunt in most of her writing here which ruffles feathers at times but yet I've also read her posts when she supports an ow who wants out of an unhappy situation.

 

 

I completely agree. GreenGoddess is supportive when an OW wants to get out of the situation. And she is good at asking inquisitive thought-provoking questions that even an OW who thinks she is happy probably has but hasn't explored. I appreciate and respect most of her posts and points of view. But sometimes maybe without meaning to [?] she comes across as spiteful, hurtful & rude. Perhaps it is the pain lashing out, which I can understand. Now that I know the backstory I feel that overall she has been quite gracioius. I could never be so nice if this had happened to me-I know that. So. I too am conflicted. And not trying to talk about GreenGoddess in the third person [hi GreenGoddess].

 

I'm glad that BS & OW post here together because I really feel that sharing these different views are helpful. Overall GreenGoddess's posts help me & so I thank her. :-)

[Silly_Girl]

As a fOW, I certainly was the one who defined "my place", and I was treated more than "just fine". I can't say I know any OW IRL who "knows their place" (as defined by the WS) or who would feel anything but outrage at the mere suggestion!

 

I know you claim not to have been an OW or a WS or a BS, so what personal experience of yours is this claim based on - or is it just supposition?

 

First bolded - my EXACT first thoughts!

 

Second bolded - no, Donna was an OW way back, so perhaps she did/didn't know her place and is speaking from experience.

[waytogo]

That's why I said there are some who just don't care - those who wouldn't want a full time with their WS.

 

I could pull out 1,000 examples, and I would still be told they aren't enough.

 

I like your posts DM. I wasn't M while in an A. It was actually while in the A I decided it 'made sense' for me not to have anyone full time. I say myself now, what about BW's idea of whether she wanted part or full time

 

Hard times for me then, yes. Excuse, NO! I was so self absorbed in enjoying this part time escape, when it suited me, feel better for a while without thinking of the rest. I grew to think I loved MM and according to words, vise versa. We both want each other to be well.

 

Move a mountain to be together? Nah, that would be some trouble. We weren't in it for trouble and lucky we didn't get the worst kind.

Stop a bullet for each other? Nah, likely one of us would have someone in the area we would step in front of first.

 

Even talk about feeling bad, good or indifferent of shared bad behaviour? Nah, when we are in the same places, 'hello' and 'glad you are doing well' is how it is. So much for that seemingling undying passion

 

That whole fog description makes COMPLETE sense

[Mimolicious]

Some things never change...

 

Why can some of ya answer the questions and keep it at that?

 

Does everything have to turn into one up from the last post?

 

It's actually not such a novel trait for someone to be involved in an A and feel no humiliation. What is there to be proud about when rolling with someone that is committed to another person? Regardless of the situation. Bottom line, if someone is married and living under the same roof, they have a marriage.

 

People come up with all sorts of excuses to justify their grimmey behavior.

 

Where is the pride in that?

 

AND to the poster that said that who would go and do the wild thing in the family home. There are plenty of LS"ers that have.

 

Just because you (general) can man-up to admitting your wrong doings (because you fail to see it as such) doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

Some people need to get off their unicorns and move out of bullshyte land!

 

And yes, there are plenty of AP that are told what their "place" is and sometimes this is the way that they are able to sustain an A for so long. For the most part, those who act up end up getting cut off and thrown under the bus. Huge example all over the media, look at what happened to Arnold's maid for getting out her place (in this specific situation). Most MM who cheat that I have personally know, would agree to this.