psionyx Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Hi everyone. I've been lurking here for a few months, but have been reluctant to post my own tale. Given how things are escalating, I think it's about time. My wife and I have known each other for 16 years, and have been married for 11. We are in our early 40's and have one eight year old daughter. We've been living together in a foreign country for the last three years. We are both educated (we met in grad school), high income earners (though she's part time), and are in general responsible people who stay out of trouble. We both come from religious backgrounds, though neither of us have "practiced" for a long time. To the outside world we've always been the typical "role model" couple, without a hint of trouble noticed by friends or family. Starting to sound familiar? First consider my background. Religious upbringing, and no divorces in the extended family (it was always a dirty word growing up). My parents married at 19 because I came along, which forced my dad to leave college and support the young family. Though my parents are now in their 60's and still married, my dad never let go of the resentment, instead choosing to "bury" it. Their relationship has been a constant series of sad compromises because they are so different, yet "duty" bound to preserve the marriage come hell or high water. They've never seen a counsellor as far as I know, but I believe they should have. In grad school, at age 24 I met my future wife and we became friends. It wasn't long before I wanted to take things further, but she was recovering from an incident of sexual abuse. I tried to be patient and understanding, but months later I decided I was not willing to wait longer for a relationship with physical intimacy. Sex always has and always will be a very, very important part of a long term relationship to me. I'm a romantic, and to me it's essential for feeling emotionally connected. So I met someone else who lived a few states away, and just before I was to fly out to visit this new woman, my W (in panic, looking back) "seduced" me back to her. So I swung back to her because after all, we were already close friends and it seemed more natural (and I still had the hots for her). A bit more background. My W was the last of about a half dozen intimate relationships I'd had throughout high school and college. But there was someone in and out of my life during this time, let's call her "L" who I've always considered my true "soul mate" (though I hate how this term has been distorted from its original meaning). For various reasons L and I never stayed together long, but that had more to do with circumstances than lack of feeling. Because my feelings for her ran so deep, I had always thought she was "the one", which made my other relationships a bit confusing at times. Flash forward five years. From the two year mark, my W had begun making noises about marriage. Around this time L (who was living in another state) and I had some serious talks, about whether we'd ever be together or not. This culminated in her visiting me, and we slept together. I don't consider it cheating (though I know in the eyes of the world it was) because it felt like closure and nothing else. Soon after, my W moved in with me and made more noises about marriage. L got engaged, my parents talked about grand kids, and I was faced with either giving in to the pressure or breaking up. After L was no longer a possibility, I felt tired of the continuous searching, and maybe because of the external pressures I said to myself "well, maybe this is as good as it gets". After all, if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with, right? That's how I felt at the time. My W felt like a great friend, companion, and human being - and while I wasn't happy with our sex life or emotional connection, I figured it would get better if she got the marriage she wanted. I did put off the decision for a long time (a couple of years) because I had so many doubts, and in retrospect maybe I should have listened to them or at least talked to someone about them. One thing to understand is that I'm your typical, obliging "nice guy". I am not confrontational at all, and tend to bury things (like my parents do, surprise surprise). I had self esteem issues growing up, but gained a lot of confidence once I was on my own. I had always considered myself a very honest person, but yet I did not discover until very recently how dishonest I was being - to myself, and to my W - by withholding my past and compromising away my needs. Over the next 10 years, our sex life did improve slightly, but nowhere near what I was used to in past relationships. The frequency wasn't enough for me, she only enjoys a couple of positions, no "funny business" in the bath, she wants me to go down on her every time (and I do), I haven't had a BJ in 16 years, she can't fall asleep naked, and she doesn't even like to french kiss! I'm clean and above average in looks, so I don't think it's me in particular. Yes I have talked to her about it on many occasions, and she always promised to "do better" but it never happened. Yes I realize this may have a lot to do with her past and her upbringing, but I have never felt like I was asking for something that was unreasonable. Maybe I didn't make it clear how important this side of the relationship is to me. She also has trouble expressing affection physically outside of sex... little in the way of kisses, cuddles, little touches in the right places, etc. I finally discovered (recently) what you guys probably already know, which is that we have completely different "love languages". I feel that I satisfy her language quite well, which is maybe why she feels that things in our relationship are alright. I give her security, safety, gifts, encouragement, companionship, and partnership. To her, that is "love". Also, she makes a point of emphasizing the fact that we are "best friends". I don't want to demean that statement, but on the other hand I've always been able to be good friends with women, so this makes me cringe. I would so much rather her emphasize (and feel) the "connection" side of the relationship - which to me, is being MORE than just friends. And besides the physical issues, we also have very different personalities. I'm spontaneous, while she needs to plan everything. She's not very articulate whereas I like to use "big words" :-) (I'm not implying she's not smart, because she is - just a different communication style). She's Midwest, I'm West Coast, etc, etc. I have always had a feeling in the back of my head, probably due to this, and because of past loves like L, that my W isn't the big love of my life, or really "the one". I understand that differences can be an advantage in a relationship, but it seems like our differences have always pulled us apart. The bottom line is that I've pretty much ALWAYS felt like she was more of a "friend with benefits" than the true love of my life. And I know this is because of the lack of physical and emotional intimacy to match my own needs and expectations. By now you're probably realizing that a lot of this is my fault - and it is! I fully accept that I got married for the wrong reasons, had unrealistic expectations about our intimacy improving after marriage, and worse yet - not being honest with her about feeling disconnected from her and not being crystal clear about my needs. Which came from having real issues with feeling that I was the "bad guy" by making "demands"! I see now how wrong and dangerous this line of thinking is, and how it actually works against intimacy. Since moving overseas three years ago, things went downhill rapidly. We both had troubles adjusting. It took me about six months while for her it's three years and counting - during which our communication and intimacy went out the door. I've tried to be understanding, but again - probably because of the two very different love languages being spoken - we just seemed to never get through to each other. Yes, she did want to come here - we were both very excited about this adventure for our family. And apart from our relationship, it has been a very good experience indeed (my daughter loves it here). Finally, a few months ago, after feeling alone, resentful, and completely disconnected from her, I felt that something had to be done. I dug deep, gathered all my courage, and wrote about five pages of completely honest self analysis, past history, and things I felt were missing from our relationship. I read it to her, and as you can imagine she was shocked. Not so much about the feelings of disconnectedness (she's felt it too), but mostly about the things in the past and how long I've kept this bottled up. She refused to accept it. Which isn't terribly surprising since most of this was an internal struggle for me, and only occasionally bubbling to the surface. And being open and honest now finally has triggered a massive shift in thinking for us both, but especially me. I am not hiding anything any more. All the cards are face up on the table. It is liberating yet scary. Scary because now that I'm able to be honest with myself I feel like I want out. I know saying that will invite the typical responses of "the grass is never greener" and "you're just running away from the issues", and even "it's your fault, be a man and suck it up". I'm not interested in hearing accusations, because believe me every one you can think of I've already inflicted on myself (thank you mom for being such an inspiring martyr). But I'm honestly not sure that any amount of work will "fix" what's missing in our relationship. There is no woman waiting in the wings, and apart from my dalliance with L before I was married (14 years ago now), I have never cheated. I had a brief crush on someone when I first moved overseas, but I never acted on it - and it has never really entered my mind since. That said, there's a voice in the back of my head that knows the grass CAN be greener because I've been there before. Also, the first thing I did after this recent self realization phase began was to put myself into counselling - for the first time in my life. I've had a half dozen individual sessions so far, and one couples session. My W has had one individual session with the same counsellor. It is helping, but the counsellor is focussing more on helping me help myself - by blowing through a lot of my religious upbringing and parental issues so that I can act less out of feelings of guilt and duty, while doing what I need to do to focus on myself. I'm not used to taking care of myself, so this is strange and liberating at the same time. My W and I are in this really odd, uncomfortable place right now because I have instinctively pulled back from her. I say "instinctive" because I have trouble being dishonest, and intimacy with her feels dishonest now based on these thoughts of feeling that things will never change enough, because "enough" was never there in the first place. I know I should give her a chance to be someone else (because that's what it might take), but my heart just isn't in it. I don't know if this is being unfair to her or not, because I don't want her to work hard on herself just to please me, especially if it's ultimately doomed to fail. And I'm not sure I can re-wire my brain to be happy given what I've come to terms with finally, and what I've felt this entire time. I have no regrets at this point, but I do fear what is to come. Sorry for the super long winded post, and thanks for making it all the through! Link to post Share on other sites
Brenfy Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Divorce your wife. She deserves better. And, just curious, did you tell her you cheated on her? Link to post Share on other sites
John Bigboote Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 One thing to understand is that I'm your typical, obliging "nice guy". No you're not. I'm sorry, but you're not. Even after all of this, you're using the "nice guy" label as social cover for extremely bad behavior. You've been lying to your wife about loving her for 16 years, most of that time carrying a torch for somebody else. That's 16 years that she could have used to find real love. You allowed her to marry you knowing that you didn't love her. You stole 16 years of her life and you call yourself a "nice guy." No, I don't think you get to do that. I know I should give her a chance to be someone else...How magnanimous of you. "Honey, every time I told you I loved you was a lie. But that can all change if only you would become more like my true love, L!" No, there's nothing you can really do to save this marriage except fall in love with her for the person she actually is. Maybe. If that is not going to happen, then there's nothing to do, because there is nothing to save, and never was. I have never cheated. YES YOU DID. You broke all kinds of promises. You promised that you loved her when you didn't. That's the most important promise of all, much more important than mere sexual fidelity. The fact that your cock stayed in your pants is irrelevant. You may never have slept with anyone during your marriage, but you nonetheless trampled all over her and the rules of the game. That's cheating. Beg her forgiveness. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Your wife loves you, and your relationship has improved since marriage. Yet you don't love her, and now you want freedom to seek your soulmate. I'm sorry, but you sound like a cliche for a midlife crisis I feel terrible for your wife It is true that "greener grass" exists, but it is also probable that your issues keep you from growing the green grass--not the person you are with. Link to post Share on other sites
mitchell Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 This is one of the saddest and longest stories I've read. You've now come to the realization that you've been living a 16 year lie with your wife whom you don't love. You told her this in a 5 page letter and were surprised that she was shocked with the news?? I have trouble offering advice since I cannot fathom this situation. If you truly don't love your wife, what's the point of MC? There is nothing really to reconcile, and all the counseling in the world will not make you love your wife. You should divorce and pray that your wife meets a deserving and loving mate. Link to post Share on other sites
Geminigrl Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Coming out of lurkdom here to say, I think the replies to the OP are unfair. He made a mistake. He was young. We all do things sometimes without fully thinking through to the end. Marriage is complicated and we get married sometimes for the wrong reasons. I can relate OP. I am in the same boat and I am going to get divorced. Yes, my H deserved better but we BOTH had our part in the problems in our marriage, even though I knew from the get go on some level I was making a mistake. I applaud the OP for having the guts to come out and tell his wife the truth. That said, I do think divorce is probably your only option. We are ALL entitled to be happy in our lives, to find our soul mate. You are not responsible for other people's feelings, you ARE responsible for your own. That doesn't mean you have to be cruel, but you do need be true to yourself. The kindest thing to do now OP is to try to make your divorce as amicable as possible. I have to say a lot of the people who post on this board, especially the women and I AM one are SO ridiculously judgemental. Try living in an unfulfilling marriage for 20 years and then tell me how you feel. Relationships are complicated. Sometimes it feels like either option is just as painful. But, staying with someone who you are not truly in love with is not fair to either party. Move on as gracefully as you can and learn from your mistakes. Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) Deary me, sounds a very sensitive and upsetting period for all of you. I feel for you all. You're taking affirmative, constructive action, first by talking with your wife and by entering into counselling. My view is that we tend to associate certain feelings with certain memories, and this becomes embedded in our subconscious. In your case, you may have associated carefree love with L, and also associated that sense of loss of an intimate partner with L too. You experienced these feelings with L, and attached them to her, and have, subsequently, avoided associating carefree love with your wife, as a defence against the pain of potential loss. However, fortune has pushed you into a situation where you are both drifting apart, and you are now feeling that sense of loss. No matter how guarded you have been against letting yourself have carefree love, you cannot avoid feeling loss as your relationship deteriorates, due to circumstances. It takes a long time to disassociate feelings from memories, but it can be done, and it's healthy to do so. It will allow you to feel those feelings now without reserve or regressing into memories of some other time. This presents a golden opportunity (but not a certainty) for you and your wife to really flourish in your relationship. Can you imagine how it would be to feel carefree, honest, open love with your wife now, and for her to feel the same? If you both desire this, you'll be making a start. There will be a lot of growing and learning to do. You will get burnt, but every fire is a lesson learnt. Although the letter sounds a bit clumsy, and was very upsetting for your wife, I get the sense that this was your attempt to change the course of events and not for this loving relationship to end like the most recent one before it. You might be able to revive it, and make it better, together. But be aware there are no guarantees. Terrifying? Sure, you have uncovered yourself and left your comfort zone. But in doing so you have started a process of choosing a different destiny for you, and those around you. Be naked and accept what you do have, instead of hankering for what you don't have. We can all change, if we want to and feel safe enough doing so. Edited May 25, 2011 by betterdeal Link to post Share on other sites
Alfie Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Dang some people are totally cold and unfair!! I actually commend you for staying in a loveless marriage so long, not that you're supposed to, but bc you tried to make it work, you hung on and you tried to follow your religious and familial beliefs, you did not cheat like many unhappy sexless men do. Ok, you made a mistake bc being young and pushed up against a wall makes you do that. I am in your situation now but not married...yet...and I know just how it feels like to hold on and make things work when you don't have that all consuming love inside you for that person (they're not the love of your life). And come on people, I don't think that he is being unfair or mean to his wife by writing her the letter or being honest about all this, she is obviously feeling the same way, she is not intimate with him, she is obviously not desiring that from him, she calls him her best friend, they are both in the same boat, he just chose to step up and speak up about what's lurking beneath all the tension and unhappiness in the marriage. Honestly, I think you are finally leading towards the first real step/attempt at fixing your marriage. Its never too late to do so. Good job on being a real man and confronting your wife about all this, it needed to be out in the open and you both deserve the truth. Good luck, really mean that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author psionyx Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Thank you to Alfie, geminigrl, and especially betterdeal for your insightful and constructive replies. To the first batch of posters, I have a few things to say. I did not post what I did in the expectation of receiving sympathy, vindication, permission, or even understanding. However, I truly did not expect bitter vitriol and black and white judgements carrying a cold and unwavering sentence of divorce. This makes me think that I misrepresented things, or slanted them in a certain way unintentionally (or subconsciously). To say that I've been "living a lie" and that I "never loved her" is not true. While it may be possible that I married for some wrong reasons, I did so with a positive view toward achieving the kind of marriage that we both wanted. If you truly think that a marriage made for reasons other than love and love only is doomed to failure, then you also imply that happiness cannot be found in any one of the millions of arranged marriages found on this planet. It may take a lot of work, but I was willing to do that work. And ours was not an arranged marriage - there was friendship and love from the beginning. My mistake was in concentrating on making sure her needs were met, while not giving voice to mine for fear of rocking the boat (yes I have issues, more on that later). And as the years passed, we went through all the trials and triumphs that any couple who "makes it" this long does. We gave each other solace, we had adventures, we built homes, and formed a strong partnership and friendship. Whether or not our expectations about romantic love were met, I cannot honestly say that we have not loved each other. Nor have I really "carried a torch" for L. I never pined for her or fantasized over being with her. She is happily married, out of my reach, and I do not have any regrets over that. However, she is a reminder and an abstract conceptualization of profound physical and emotional compatibility that I have since missed. While I am over her in particular, I cannot forget the idea of her. In a similar situation, could you? Also, about "wanting out". I have not yet told her that I want out. If I truly did want out, then I would have done it and not gone to all the trouble of finding a counsellor or writing here or going through the painful process of iterating on these issues with my wife (though one might argue that my issues with guilt are behind these actions - I am not sure if that's true). When I wrote that, I was expressing some of the typical escape instincts a lot of people have when under great emotional strain. I was actually hoping more of you would try to talk me out of that course, rather than steering me into it. So back to my "issues". Yes, I have issues. I fully own them, accept that I have them, and at this point want to work through them with honesty and integrity if that is possible. A lot of the root causes center around feelings of guilt, self deprecation, and avoidance of conflict. I had problems opening up to her about my true feelings, needs, ideals, and yes the past - for fear of rocking the boat so much that I would lose her. Yes, it's spineless and dishonest - I can see that now. However, my mind would always rationalize burying those things to protect her from being hurt - which in turn would hurt me. The proverbial road to Hell truly is paved with good intentions. However I cannot truly believe that I'm unique in this problem. Based on what I've seen, I believe a lot of communication issues in other relationships also stem from similar insecurities. So now back to the implied accusations at hand. Apparently I should get a divorce because my crime was the crime of betrayal. Because I withheld a feeling that she wasn't the "love of my life" (even though she was / is my best friend, and even though we have tried very hard to attain true love), and because I could not express my needs and built up resentment over time - because of these, I should do her and my daughter a favor and just pack up and leave. Drop the counselling because it will never work, don't try to work on my issues, don't discuss it, just leave. Am I reading you guys right? Have you given any consideration to what my wife thinks? What my daughter thinks? No, you've made your assumptions about that already. To the poster who called me a cheater, I may have some self loathing but I refuse to sink that low. You are saying that I belong with the same group of men who abandons their vows in the arms of other women and then lies to their wife about it. I hope perhaps in light of what I've said now that you change your mind, because I won't accept that judgement, and what's more I sincerely hope you are not in a position of power over other people - because it's exactly that kind of blind and polarized thinking that has caused some of the greatest tragedies in history. Someone here just said "relationships are complicated", and cannot be judged in black and white. Once again, thank you betterdeal for providing some insights that offer an alternative between the extremes of divorce and going back to how it was (if that's even an option). That is exactly the kind of good, constructive advice I was hoping to find here. Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) You're welcome. I hope you have success in evolving some of your careful love into the carefree kind. Edited May 26, 2011 by betterdeal Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 This is all eerily familiar ... Best of luck to you. Link to post Share on other sites
reboot Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I stopped at "So I met someone else...." And then you rewrote the history of your marriage. I think that's in Chapter 1 of the Cheaters Handbook. No offense meant. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Is there any chance you're doing important research? Link to post Share on other sites
Author psionyx Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 I stopped at "So I met someone else...." And then you rewrote the history of your marriage. I think that's in Chapter 1 of the Cheaters Handbook. No offense meant. What was I "cheating" on? We were platonic friends at that point with zero commitment. And in the end I never even met the "someone else". Did you even read what I wrote? No, you said it yourself. Seriously, the cheater card gets tossed around this forum like children throwing sand at each other on the beach. Link to post Share on other sites
vsmini Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Is there any chance you're doing important research? LOL is "L" a sexy young intern? Link to post Share on other sites
reboot Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 What was I "cheating" on? We were platonic friends at that point with zero commitment. And in the end I never even met the "someone else". Did you even read what I wrote? No, you said it yourself. Seriously, the cheater card gets tossed around this forum like children throwing sand at each other on the beach. Were you not still married? Link to post Share on other sites
LilyBart Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 However, she is a reminder and an abstract conceptualization of profound physical and emotional compatibility that I have since missed. While I am over her in particular, I cannot forget the idea of her. In a similar situation, could you? It was completely refreshing to read your honest original post. What can I say? Life happens, you make decisions and you go with it. But sometimes after a while you stop, look around and realize you're nowhere near the destination you wanted to reach. So you have a choice. You continue to walk the path you're currently on, always wondering what "could be". Or you change direction and choose to walk a different path. PSI - I know EXACTLY what you mean when you talk about a profound physical and emotional connection. And I don't think you SHOULD 'forget' what that is like. I'm not saying to throw away your M without considering all the options. But if you never had IT with your W, you're never going to 'get it back'. It's the kind of thing that either there or not. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 you are NOT the man you think you are... and you are not the man your wife thought you could be. to have and hold such strong feelings for another woman - other than your wife... how COULD YOU EXPECT her to compete with a fantasy? let your wife go- tell her (in your honesty) that you are not the man you portrayed yourself to be - you are a sham - you are not who she thought she knew. Link to post Share on other sites
Author psionyx Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 Were you not still married? No, that happened a few months after we had met, and five years before we were married: In grad school, at age 24 I met my future wife and we became friends. Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Any progress? Link to post Share on other sites
Lecturer Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Ok - the irrationally bitter anti-cheating crowd needs to take it easy. I guess they haven't had enough cheaters to hate on lately, so it's time to hate on guys that haven't cheated. They read the title of this thread, and started making assumptions from the get-go. Divorce your wife. She deserves better. And, just curious, did you tell her you cheated on her? Fail. I stopped at "So I met someone else...." And then you rewrote the history of your marriage. I think that's in Chapter 1 of the Cheaters Handbook. No offense meant. Fail AND the bolded shows your glaringly ignorant attitude. The man never cheated! His marriage certainly has problems, which he is very possibly the cause of. But I can't deny that I am in a similar emotional situation to the one he is in, and for many of the very same reasons. Most people go into relationships hoping to make them work. And as each problem is encountered, we try to fix it rather than just declaring its a lost cause and running. Unfortunately, aggregate enough of these problems & solutions together, and you end up with a broken yet long-term marriage. I'd say stick with the course you're on, keep communication lines open, but try to remain objective. Ending things may be best for the overall happiness of you both, so try to keep that as a reasonable and possible outcome. Link to post Share on other sites
patagonia Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I love it when people make comments based on nothing but the original post...they know nothing about you or have ever experienced the heartache or feelings you have gone through...it's ok. People show how foolish they are when they open their mouths. I was in the same boat but on a much smaller scale. I only made it 3 yrs. I couldn't see myself trying to make it 15 more yrs in a situation like that so things came to the surface much earlier. We ended...or I ended things in divorce back in December. I wanted it. I felt like it was right. I thought there was more. I thought she was too good for me(still do). As depressed and crazy as I was the last 4 yrs or so, I couldn't tell you how much I feel your pain, agony, heart break, etc etc. I didn't want to tell my wife because I didn't want to hurt her but there comes a time where it's beyond selflessness and it's just idiotic to hold things in. Long story short, I would encourage you to get close to God again. Your heart is hardened and hers is hardened. There is a lot going on. You will feel all sorts and every terrible pain and thought there is. Don't give up yet! I'm getting another shot with the wife I sent home. I realize things should have perhaps been handled differently, we will never know for sure what the outcome or feelings would have been if handled another way but I can assure you that time can fix a lot of things. Keep seeing the counselor. Make sure they are excellent and not just giving you some nonsense. Work on yourself. Make an effort to love your wife. Put all things aside and think what marriage is. It's worth it. I realized what I lost and gave up. I am getting another shot at love with an amazing incredible woman who at one time, I was not sure I should have been married to. Good luck... Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Sorry my first post wasn't more constructive. Reading your op, I got the impression you were looking for support in leaving your wife--not that you were looking for encouragement to stay. I know I should give her a chance to be someone else (because that's what it might take), but my heart just isn't in it. I don't know if this is being unfair to her or not, because I don't want her to work hard on herself just to please me, especially if it's ultimately doomed to fail. I don't think her changing is the solution--because she isn't the one with the problem. She is in love with you, and committed to the marriage. Sure, there may be some things that she can improve to help the marriage, but fundamentally, she is "in" the marriage. YOU are the one that needs to change for this marriage to truly improve. You have changed--but from one extreme to another. You missed the healthy middle ground where relationships thrive. I'd suggest that you focus less on what your wife is or is not, and more on what YOU are doing to promote intimacy with the wife you have. Link to post Share on other sites
Scarlett77 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [ Dear Psionyx There are some very cruel and judgmental people here on LS, also , as you have seen by some of the other replies, some very wise and compassionate ones. Don't be so hard on yourself, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and we all are trying to do the right thing.you sound like a thoughtful, hinest and caring man. Remember something though, your truth is not necessarily your wires truth, and you can't make anyone understand you.at the end of the day, all you can do is be as honest and as true to yourself as possible, try as much as possible not to hurt the ones you love, and let other peope take responsibility for their own emotions. Good luck, and take care. =psionyx;3419485]Hi everyone. I've been lurking here for a few months, but have been reluctant to post my own tale. Given how things are escalating, I think it's about time. My wife and I have known each other for 16 years, and have been married for 11. We are in our early 40's and have one eight year old daughter. We've been living together in a foreign country for the last three years. We are both educated (we met in grad school), high income earners (though she's part time), and are in general responsible people who stay out of trouble. We both come from religious backgrounds, though neither of us have "practiced" for a long time. To the outside world we've always been the typical "role model" couple, without a hint of trouble noticed by friends or family. Starting to sound familiar? First consider my background. Religious upbringing, and no divorces in the extended family (it was always a dirty word growing up). My parents married at 19 because I came along, which forced my dad to leave college and support the young family. Though my parents are now in their 60's and still married, my dad never let go of the resentment, instead choosing to "bury" it. Their relationship has been a constant series of sad compromises because they are so different, yet "duty" bound to preserve the marriage come hell or high water. They've never seen a counsellor as far as I know, but I believe they should have. In grad school, at age 24 I met my future wife and we became friends. It wasn't long before I wanted to take things further, but she was recovering from an incident of sexual abuse. I tried to be patient and understanding, but months later I decided I was not willing to wait longer for a relationship with physical intimacy. Sex always has and always will be a very, very important part of a long term relationship to me. I'm a romantic, and to me it's essential for feeling emotionally connected. So I met someone else who lived a few states away, and just before I was to fly out to visit this new woman, my W (in panic, looking back) "seduced" me back to her. So I swung back to her because after all, we were already close friends and it seemed more natural (and I still had the hots for her). A bit more background. My W was the last of about a half dozen intimate relationships I'd had throughout high school and college. But there was someone in and out of my life during this time, let's call her "L" who I've always considered my true "soul mate" (though I hate how this term has been distorted from its original meaning). For various reasons L and I never stayed together long, but that had more to do with circumstances than lack of feeling. Because my feelings for her ran so deep, I had always thought she was "the one", which made my other relationships a bit confusing at times. Flash forward five years. From the two year mark, my W had begun making noises about marriage. Around this time L (who was living in another state) and I had some serious talks, about whether we'd ever be together or not. This culminated in her visiting me, and we slept together. I don't consider it cheating (though I know in the eyes of the world it was) because it felt like closure and nothing else. Soon after, my W moved in with me and made more noises about marriage. L got engaged, my parents talked about grand kids, and I was faced with either giving in to the pressure or breaking up. After L was no longer a possibility, I felt tired of the continuous searching, and maybe because of the external pressures I said to myself "well, maybe this is as good as it gets". After all, if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with, right? That's how I felt at the time. My W felt like a great friend, companion, and human being - and while I wasn't happy with our sex life or emotional connection, I figured it would get better if she got the marriage she wanted. I did put off the decision for a long time (a couple of years) because I had so many doubts, and in retrospect maybe I should have listened to them or at least talked to someone about them. One thing to understand is that I'm your typical, obliging "nice guy". I am not confrontational at all, and tend to bury things (like my parents do, surprise surprise). I had self esteem issues growing up, but gained a lot of confidence once I was on my own. I had always considered myself a very honest person, but yet I did not discover until very recently how dishonest I was being - to myself, and to my W - by withholding my past and compromising away my needs. Over the next 10 years, our sex life did improve slightly, but nowhere near what I was used to in past relationships. The frequency wasn't enough for me, she only enjoys a couple of positions, no "funny business" in the bath, she wants me to go down on her every time (and I do), I haven't had a BJ in 16 years, she can't fall asleep naked, and she doesn't even like to french kiss! I'm clean and above average in looks, so I don't think it's me in particular. Yes I have talked to her about it on many occasions, and she always promised to "do better" but it never happened. Yes I realize this may have a lot to do with her past and her upbringing, but I have never felt like I was asking for something that was unreasonable. Maybe I didn't make it clear how important this side of the relationship is to me. She also has trouble expressing affection physically outside of sex... little in the way of kisses, cuddles, little touches in the right places, etc. I finally discovered (recently) what you guys probably already know, which is that we have completely different "love languages". I feel that I satisfy her language quite well, which is maybe why she feels that things in our relationship are alright. I give her security, safety, gifts, encouragement, companionship, and partnership. To her, that is "love". Also, she makes a point of emphasizing the fact that we are "best friends". I don't want to demean that statement, but on the other hand I've always been able to be good friends with women, so this makes me cringe. I would so much rather her emphasize (and feel) the "connection" side of the relationship - which to me, is being MORE than just friends. And besides the physical issues, we also have very different personalities. I'm spontaneous, while she needs to plan everything. She's not very articulate whereas I like to use "big words" :-) (I'm not implying she's not smart, because she is - just a different communication style). She's Midwest, I'm West Coast, etc, etc. I have always had a feeling in the back of my head, probably due to this, and because of past loves like L, that my W isn't the big love of my life, or really "the one". I understand that differences can be an advantage in a relationship, but it seems like our differences have always pulled us apart. The bottom line is that I've pretty much ALWAYS felt like she was more of a "friend with benefits" than the true love of my life. And I know this is because of the lack of physical and emotional intimacy to match my own needs and expectations. By now you're probably realizing that a lot of this is my fault - and it is! I fully accept that I got married for the wrong reasons, had unrealistic expectations about our intimacy improving after marriage, and worse yet - not being honest with her about feeling disconnected from her and not being crystal clear about my needs. Which came from having real issues with feeling that I was the "bad guy" by making "demands"! I see now how wrong and dangerous this line of thinking is, and how it actually works against intimacy. Since moving overseas three years ago, things went downhill rapidly. We both had troubles adjusting. It took me about six months while for her it's three years and counting - during which our communication and intimacy went out the door. I've tried to be understanding, but again - probably because of the two very different love languages being spoken - we just seemed to never get through to each other. Yes, she did want to come here - we were both very excited about this adventure for our family. And apart from our relationship, it has been a very good experience indeed (my daughter loves it here). Finally, a few months ago, after feeling alone, resentful, and completely disconnected from her, I felt that something had to be done. I dug deep, gathered all my courage, and wrote about five pages of completely honest self analysis, past history, and things I felt were missing from our relationship. I read it to her, and as you can imagine she was shocked. Not so much about the feelings of disconnectedness (she's felt it too), but mostly about the things in the past and how long I've kept this bottled up. She refused to accept it. Which isn't terribly surprising since most of this was an internal struggle for me, and only occasionally bubbling to the surface. And being open and honest now finally has triggered a massive shift in thinking for us both, but especially me. I am not hiding anything any more. All the cards are face up on the table. It is liberating yet scary. Scary because now that I'm able to be honest with myself I feel like I want out. I know saying that will invite the typical responses of "the grass is never greener" and "you're just running away from the issues", and even "it's your fault, be a man and suck it up". I'm not interested in hearing accusations, because believe me every one you can think of I've already inflicted on myself (thank you mom for being such an inspiring martyr). But I'm honestly not sure that any amount of work will "fix" what's missing in our relationship. There is no woman waiting in the wings, and apart from my dalliance with L before I was married (14 years ago now), I have never cheated. I had a brief crush on someone when I first moved overseas, but I never acted on it - and it has never really entered my mind since. That said, there's a voice in the back of my head that knows the grass CAN be greener because I've been there before. Also, the first thing I did after this recent self realization phase began was to put myself into counselling - for the first time in my life. I've had a half dozen individual sessions so far, and one couples session. My W has had one individual session with the same counsellor. It is helping, but the counsellor is focussing more on helping me help myself - by blowing through a lot of my religious upbringing and parental issues so that I can act less out of feelings of guilt and duty, while doing what I need to do to focus on myself. I'm not used to taking care of myself, so this is strange and liberating at the same time. My W and I are in this really odd, uncomfortable place right now because I have instinctively pulled back from her. I say "instinctive" because I have trouble being dishonest, and intimacy with her feels dishonest now based on these thoughts of feeling that things will never change enough, because "enough" was never there in the first place. I know I should give her a chance to be someone else (because that's what it might take), but my heart just isn't in it. I don't know if this is being unfair to her or not, because I don't want her to work hard on herself just to please me, especially if it's ultimately doomed to fail. And I'm not sure I can re-wire my brain to be happy given what I've come to terms with finally, and what I've felt this entire time. I have no regrets at this point, but I do fear what is to come. Sorry for the super long winded post, and thanks for making it all the through! Link to post Share on other sites
Scarlett77 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 You said what I clumsily tried to, , lovely post. Coming out of lurkdom here to say, I think the replies to the OP are unfair. He made a mistake. He was young. We all do things sometimes without fully thinking through to the end. Marriage is complicated and we get married sometimes for the wrong reasons. I can relate OP. I am in the same boat and I am going to get divorced. Yes, my H deserved better but we BOTH had our part in the problems in our marriage, even though I knew from the get go on some level I was making a mistake. I applaud the OP for having the guts to come out and tell his wife the truth. That said, I do think divorce is probably your only option. We are ALL entitled to be happy in our lives, to find our soul mate. You are not responsible for other people's feelings, you ARE responsible for your own. That doesn't mean you have to be cruel, but you do need be true to yourself. The kindest thing to do now OP is to try to make your divorce as amicable as possible. I have to say a lot of the people who post on this board, especially the women and I AM one are SO ridiculously judgemental. Try living in an unfulfilling marriage for 20 years and then tell me how you feel. Relationships are complicated. Sometimes it feels like either option is just as painful. But, staying with someone who you are not truly in love with is not fair to either party. Move on as gracefully as you can and learn from your mistakes. Link to post Share on other sites
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