My Mum is asset rich but income poor, and I worry about her...a lot

[Thinkalot]

OK, well I've posted about this kind of thing before.

 

Basically I am an only child, and I have always been very close to my Mum. In recent years I have learnt to draw my boundaries a little further away (something which had to happen to accommodate my current relationship with my partner and adult life...etc)

 

Despite the increasing independence I have found, and ability to stand back a little, I still worry about my mum very much, and often feel what many have described as an over developed sense of responsibility...making sure she is happy, has enough money etc.

 

The situation which pops up and causes me grief from time to time is her financial situation.

 

She is a spender, yes, and is not the best saver. But the main issue is - she has bought (in the past year) a big fancy house near the ocean. She is, as my financial planning bf would say, asset rich, but income poor. Her cash flow is low in other words. She also owns four pets which cost a bit to look after.

 

She loves the house, and feels it add much to her quality of life. She is retired and has issues with her neck and back.

 

Anyway, I constantly feel anxious because she doesn't have a great income, even though I know it was her choice to buy the house, and do a few renovations when she first bought it.

 

My bf said she needed to leave more money to invest, but she didn't.

 

Now what she does have is running short.

 

Meanwhile, we are planning to quit our jobs in a year and take off around Australia travelling. We are saving really hard to do that, and have been planning this trip for a couple of years now. We are also putting money aside to buy a house down the track and so on. We've tightened our budget right up so we can do these things. It's our choice to put our money towards travel and trips now, while we are free of ties, and can do it.

 

I can't afford to give mum as much money as I used to. My bf firmly believes she needs to take responsibility for her own situation anyway, and finds the issue very frustrating. I'm much softer and more emotional on the subject obviously.

 

I was today discussing our plans with her. She is right behind us 100% and thinks it sounds great. She did say she'll miss me LOTS however, and I immediately felt worried for her. I said she could fly across the country to see us when we get over to Perth. She said I won't be able to afford to do that. Instantly, I started trying to figure out how I could put money aside to pay for her flights when the time comes.

 

I can't always fix everything though.

 

Just not sure how to handle it the best....maybe I'm just venting.

 

BTW, I've helped her on little holidays etc, by giving some money, or with grocery money and so on....or shouting her to the movies and stuff like that.

[Tony T]

Your mother can take care of herself. When she gets desperate, she'll start liquidating her assets. My guess is she has more money around than you are aware of. Many very wealthy people live as if every penny is their last.

[Arabess]

Think,

I know this has caused you a great deal of concern for quite awhile. I'm going to think about it tomorrow morning to see if I can come up with any solutions whatsoever. I just didn't want to go to bed without responding.

 

Arabess

[Thinkalot]

Thanks Arabess...you're a sweetie. And yes, you no doubt recall my earlier posts on the same subject. Still worrying away...Mum does try to assure me that it is not my responsibility, that "this is your time to do what you want sweetie"...and so on. But at the same time, i know she'll miss me, and she tells me when she feels anxious about money (she has noone else to vent to really, so I understand).

[Thinkalot]

Originally posted by Tony

Your mother can take care of herself. When she gets desperate, she'll start liquidating her assets. My guess is she has more money around than you are aware of. Many very wealthy people live as if every penny is their last.

 

Tony, I don't think she has any money hidden away..she's pretty open with me.

 

I hate the thought of her being forced to sell up.

 

I'm even looking into some new loan options, which involves the bank lending money to retirees against the value of the house....the bank can then get back what they need through sale of the house when that person has passed away.

 

I don't know if there are similar loans where you are.

[Tony T]

Yes, it's called a reverse mortgage and a lot of retired folks cash out that way for a steady income. You might look into that for your mother.

[moimeme]

I hear some of those can be real scams. Have Bunnyboy check out all the possibilities very carefully if you go that route.

[Thinkalot]

I'm sure he'll check carefully Merry.

 

We used to have 'personal money' accounts...just a small amount to do with what we each please. We have now both decided to donate that money towards our travels...if we save it up we can do a trip during our final year of work this year...and not have to dig into our main savings. We've decided we'd rather do that, than spend the money on clothes or possessions etc.

 

BUT..that means I don't have any 'personal money' to hand over the mum every now and then, like I used to.

 

I said I would be fine with that...but now I'm wondering if I should maybe see if we can put aside a very small amount each...then I could afford to fly mum over to visit us when we are somewhere around Australia. I just worry too much.

[bluechocolate]

QUOTE]Originally posted by Tony

Yes, it's called a reverse mortgage and a lot of retired folks cash out that way for a steady income. You might look into that for your mother.

 

Be very careful with reverse mortgages

 

A couple I know who are in their sixites and live in Canada looked into this - a home with a value of $175,000 would nett them about $50,000 from the bank. - so for $50,000 they give up an asset valued at $175,000. But of course you continue to live in that house until you die - for these folks another 20 or so years - by which time that home would have appreciated considerably in value. A nice one for the banks.

 

In my opinion a reverse mortgage can work but only if your life-expectancy was short, say less than 10 years. For instance you knew you had a terminal illness which will require progressively more expensive care and you wish to die at home - in that circumstance I would recommend one. But of course that means that the family home now belongs to the bank, therefore you can't will it to your descendants.

 

You say your b/f is a financial planner? Have him look into it closely for you - maybe there are better deals out there.

 

It is truly commendable that you help your mother out and wish to do more. But like you yourself said - I can't always fix everything though. I'm sure your mother knows this.

 

As for selling the house

 

<< I hate the thought of her having to sell up >>

 

this one has always baffled me. What good is a big expensive house if you're scraping the bottom of the barrell to live in it? And big fancy houses usually come with big fancy maintenance bills - especailly if they're by an ocean. Can she continue to afford the annual upkeep? How exactly does square footage equate to quality of life?

 

You mentioned that you've distanced yourself somewhat to strike out on your own - so I suppose taking a part ownership in the house and moving in with her is out of the question? If it is a big enough house could you seperate part as a self contained unit and live there? Thereby getting yourselves a home, helping your mother out and still living seperate lives ( albeit in close proximity ). What about your mother taking in a lodger? That could provide a steady income and possibly decent companionship for your mom.

 

I would strongly recommend that you do not alter your dreams and ambitions for travel. You may not think so now but I'm willing to bet that you will grow to resent your mother if you do.

 

<< My bf firmly believes she needs to take responsibility for her own situation anyway, and finds the issue very frustrating. >>

 

I think your b/f may be right here and if he is finding the issue very frustrating you should be careful lest this impact on your relationship badly.

 

I don't know exactly when you starting helping your mother out financially but she managed to get so far and raise a decent and loving sounding daughter in the process - and all without your financial assistance for many years. Have some faith that she can continue to do so in the future.

[meanon]

Thinkalot your Mum would not want you to take this level of responsibility for her, she's looked after herself for a long time and she has assets. She's made her choices, they are differnt to yours. You must try not to worry for her too much.

 

I think the best thing to do is to decide how much you want to set aside to support your mum and then stick to it if you can, it may be very little or none while you are travelling - she'll understand that. Maybe you will be able to help out more in the future. This is an important time for you and , you are making a lot of personal sacrifices. Don't make life more difficult than it is already.

 

This may be nothing more than worry over a parent, but if it bothers you a lot think about it from the perspective of wanting to control risks in life. That's something you've had difficulty with in the past - accepting that there are some risks we can't control no matter how much we may want to. Even if you had enough money to afford your Mum's airfare, the ongoing problem of her living beyond her means may be one which you have little influence over. I'm sure you will always do what you can to help but it should always be what you can afford.

 

Your mum is lucky to have such a caring daughter

[Arabess]

I was trying to put myself in your position, because I am very close to my Mom. Her welfare would always be one of my greatest concerns in life.

 

I believe I would sit her down and say pretty much the same thing you've said in your post. I would let her know the amount I have planned to help her along with which will be given on a monthly basis. I would then tell her if she surpasses her personal funds and the amount you have set aside to help....she will have to sell the house...and hand her a card from a local realtor.

 

If she values her current living arrangements, she will have to comply to the budget. If she goofs it up....well....MANY people have a great quality of life NOT living directly on the beach. It's her choice as an adult. You are not responsible for her personal choices.

 

Surely, she is intelligent enough to know she can't have her cake and eat it too. I'm sure she doesn't expect you to compromise your entire life plans to support her in a lifestyle she can't afford. Since she is YOUR Mom, I bet she's as loving and sweet as your are. She probably doesn't realize the great emotional and financial burden she is creating for you.

 

Give it to her straight and believe the best. It's ALL you are required to do as a wonderful daughter.

[Thinkalot]

Thank you all for the many caring and thoughtful replies.

 

I an actually at mum's place now, so I won't stay online too long.

 

I just wanted to say that I have just been speaking with her about her financial situation. I told her straight out that I am very worried about her well being and that I actually feel guilty for having more money and a 'better' lifestyle than she does.

 

I explained that for the next year, if my partner and I decide to take a cheap trip to Borneo to give us both a break from work, and saving etc etc, that we will have to be on a tight budget, and that I would not have money left over to help out with little bits and pieces. I said that even if we did not take the trip to Malaysia (which we are using our own individual spending money on) that the money would at this stage probably still be needed somewhere else and would get absorbed (ie, we'd add it to the round Australia Travel Fund, or to the money we are putting aside for our future engagement/wedding plans/house deposit and so on).

 

She told me that it's my life to live how I choose and that I am not responsible for looking after her. She also said though, that her life 'sux', which of course made me feel awful, because I take things on personally.

 

I mentioned the idea of having a boarder in. She is very private and was not too keen on that idea, which is fair enough. She turns 61 this year, and I said that from 65 she'd have access to a 'reverse mortgage' (yes I know..good for the banks). I wondered if she could hold on and make ends meet living in this lovely house for that long.

 

Mum said she was not sure she could. And I asked what she would do- she said 'I'llprobably have to sell"

A year ago she sold another house to clear off debts. Buying this house was SUPPOSED to fix the problem, and leaver her with enough savings. But it doesn't seem to have done that. When she sold the other house she was very sad, and also became a bit angry with me for not doing mored to help.

 

I have to explain here friends, that at the time she bought the house BEFORE this one, she asked my bf and I for some small amount of financial aid, and she expected it. We had already booked a trip to NZ skiing, and we had nothing else left over, so my bf said we could not afford to help her out.

 

That basically started world war 3 between them. I was caught in the middle. I became very depressed and cried all the time. For along time. My mum and bf stopped speaking. My bf nearly left me, because he said I needed to sort my stuff out with mum, and put 'us' and him first now. I realised he was right and stuck with him. My mum was so sad, and angry and I guess hurt, she really lashed out both at me, and my bf, accusing me and him, of being selfish and turning my back on family. At that stage my bf and I had not been together even a year. It was probably the worst period of my life. I even think it may have been part of what made me depressed before my obsessing got really bad. You see for a long time it had always been just mum and I, and we'd developed patterns of behaviour. She had always been my rock , my friend...whatever. Her pain and anger was almost too much to bear at the time. Counselling helped me through and helped me draw a line.

 

Anyway, that's all past history now. My mum has grown and evolved and also apologised, and 'let go' a lot more. So have I. It's been hard, but I guess we now have a more 'adult' relationship and we are best buds again. Plus my mum and my bf have made up and also get on really well now.

But you know, I still bear the scars of that time I guess...and when it comes to choosing a holiday for my bf and I, over saving money aside to help mum every now and then...a little girl inside myself says "selfish selfish selfish".

 

Mum told me to live and be happy, and speaks so differently now...but still...I worry. Perhap s now you can all understand where I am coming from a bit more.

 

Any more responses to this information and my talk with Mum today? I really appreciate objective feedback on this, because I get quite emotional about it all. My partner stays objective. I used to think he was too harsh, now I think he is a realist and understands the longterm situation. I told mum, 'even if I helped you now, it doesn't solve the long term issues".

 

Thanks for reading.

[meanon]

Ahhh Thinkalot I see why this is such a difficult thing for you to deal with now. It's so hard to change parental expectations - you've done a great job of helping your Mum become responsible for her own life and not rely on you too much. You already know this but I'll say it anyway: It's very selfish to try and get someone to do something you want by saying that if they loved you, if they cared for their family, they would do it. I went through a really bad patch with someone in my family who did this (our issue was not financial). It happens when someone relies on you to cope with their lot in life. Your love is all you owe your Mum and anything else has to be freely given. not demanded as proof of your love.

 

So what can you do? Be sympathetic, explain that the travel is an important goal for you both for which you are making sacrifices, suggest options to her making it clear she has to take responsibility for her choices.

 

Would it help to get a financial adviser to help her look at her options and draw up a budget? A friend in a similar position to you found this really helpful, both to help her Mum but also to help my friend let go. The adviser really brought home the point that my friend couldn't always be her Mum's safety net - she didn't have the assets and it would compromise her own careful financial planning.

 

I think you are doing all you can. The only thing you need to work on is feeling less guilt (it doesn't help you help your Mum) and possibly worrying about the impact on your relationship (it sounds as though that's been sorted out).

[Thinkalot]

Thanks meanon.

 

It's been a tough weekend. Full of ups and downs, like an emotional rollercoaster.

 

I took on way to much stress when speaking to mum about her financial position. I slipped back into old ways a bit actually, and sort of asked for her blessing or approval to put all my personal spending money towards this planned travel of ours this year and next (ie Borneo and Aussie trip). It's like making a choice, and putting myself and my partner first. Sometimes it's tough...I keep hearing phrases like "family helps family" which I heard during that bad time with Mum.

 

I felt a bit lame and hopeless asking for her approval, but suddenly I felt like I needed to hear from her that it was alright. Of course, she said it was alright, and that I should do these things while I can. But I also heard and tried to listen with compassion to her financial situation and look at the options. I find it VERY hard to detach emotionally when doing that. I went home quite anxious about it all. I discussed it with my bf, and he was sympathetic, but also frustrated (given past history, this is a touchy one), and keen for me to NOT look to mum for approval. I said I realised he was right, but that it was hard.

 

Anyway, we talked more about it today, and I feel a bit more grounded again now. I know it's mum's situation to sort out. She made her decisions. I've also realised that the impact of what went on with her those couple of years ago is still there to an extent, and I think drives the worry. She was really so angry at the time, it's hard to believe she now really has this new attitude. And I know I'm not supposed to worry one way or the other anyway.

 

Today my bf and I had a lovely picnic at a waterhole, and had a great time. Then we argued all the way home because we got to talking about mum's finances...I didn't really bring it up, he did , trying to be helpful...but it's way too touchy.

 

We've been up and down lately...he's fuse with me is so short, and my OCD has perhaps been one of the main causes (along with volatility which we've always had anyway). We both know we both need to try a bit harder at the moment and cut each other more slack. Trying. Sorry, not too upbeat tonight. By tomorrow morning I'll probably be back up. My life after all, is great right now. This is just a little rough patch.

[meanon]

It's so hard trying to find the right balance with a dependent parent - I found it very difficult for many years. The love gets so mixed up with their expectations of what your family responsibilities are. I think this problem is largely resolved but you are dealing with the anxiety that it may happen again and you need to avoid feeling caught in the middle and the conflicted loyalties that brings. I'll PM tomorrow when I have more time. You're never down for long, Thinkalot. Tomorrow you'll be back on form

[Kat]

Why does your boyfriend know so much about your mothers personal finances?????????

[Thinkalot]

Kat,

He's a financial advisor. Initially mum asked him for advice. He knows how much the house cost, and has offered help along the way, in trying to make her situation better. Of course, he disagrees with some of her choices, but now respects her decisions and her willingness to make whatever choices she needs to from here.

[Kat]

Ahh okay

[Thinkalot]

Just wanted to say thanks for everyone's help here. I'm feeling more calm and grounded on the whole issue again now. Boundaries are in place...but jeez it's tough sticking to them sometimes!

[notanangel]

I don't want to sound insensitive to this issue but this seems like a total role reversal to me. Its usually the child moving in with the parent or the parent bailing out the child. Is there anyway you can rationally sit down with her and go over her expenses. Maybe she needs to buy less or cheaper brands of certain items. My grandma got herself into a similar situation years ago but she solved it without my parents(who were frantic at the time they were raising 5 kids and didn't have to funds) She got a part time job doing birthday parties for kids at McDonalds. no she couldn't live on that but it was her fun money so she could buy what she wanted with it and her pension was her money she spent on the necessities.It also got her out of the house and her mind off how bad she perceived her life to be. I think that was more important than the paycheck.Oh and she was 72 at that time. Maybe an option like this would help. Your mom seems scared and rightfully so shes under financial pressure plus her only child is growing up and moving on its a typical emptynest sydrome. She sounds like she cares alot for you and that you care alot for you. I'm amazed at how close you two are as my mom and I aren't that close. I'm sure you both will come up with a solution. You sound very intelligent and I'm sure your mom is too.

[Thinkalot]

Thanks for the words. Actually we've gone over the budget,and she simply does not have enough coming in each week to meet her expenses. Therefore she is drawing on what she has left in thebank, which is slowly getting eaten away.

 

Soonish, she'll either have to sell, or get a loan, or get a boarder, or bring my grandma in to live with her (grandma will soon need more care...she is currently at a retirement village). My mum is also the only child, and has a lot of pressure on her shoulders looking after my grandma too, which adds to her stresses.

 

All these options seem tough...but I guess she'll work it out. And you're right, I care for and love her very much, and she me.

[Thinkalot]

I just wanted to inform those of you who were kind enough to reply, that my partner and I have been researching the various loans (reverse mortgages) available, and have found a product which actually doesn't look too bad. Sure the bank will make quite a bit, bit it will sove the present problem, and allow mum to stay where she is without financial strain. Given her health issues, I am very happy she will not have to move...she truly loves her home and her garden and it enhances her quality of life.

 

My partner will act as a financial advisor and plan out how to invest the money and make the situation work best. It looks like this is the path we are going to go down.

[Thinkalot]

Unfortunately, following further enquiries about the reverse mortgage, we have discovered that the bank will not loan to mum, because she lives in a small coastal area, and they have rules about people needing to live in proximity to a population of 10,000, to be entitled to the loan. This loan is the only one available to people 60 and over.

 

All other such loans at other institutions are available only to those aged 65 and over. Mum turns 61 this year.

 

So, back to the drawing board on finding a solution, other than her selling up again

 

I know it is not my responsibility to fix this, but I love her dearly, and I love her house, and I know she is happy there. My best friend, my partner and I all spent the weekend out there with her, and we all discussed options without reaching any great solutions.

 

Oh well. My task is to not worry to much I guess, when I cannot fix it myself.

[truthteller]

It it time for you to grow up and take responsibility for your own soul, my friend.

 

You have 2 people using you and you must put an end to it. The more you allow it to happen, the more they will each keep using you. You are a human being, not a pin cushion.

 

First of all, your mother is old enough to make her own decisions about her finances. If she has bought a house she cannot afford, that is not your problem. She can take in a boarder, she can sell the house, she can move to a smaller place and rent the house. She has options, she is not in danger of being homeless. You must let her make her own decisions and you must stop crying about it. You are an adult. So is she. Both of you need to grow up.

 

Second, I don't like the sound of you pooling your money with your "boyfriend". If you are both saving up for vacations, etc., that should be in separate accounts. Each of you can easily have your own savings accounts for various projects and you can show each other the bank statements to "share" the experience. If you have a joint account that you are pouring all your money in to, what is to stop him from taking it all one day?

 

Stop being a victim. It's not cute or sweet. People will not love you more if you are a victim, but they will respect you less. Put your foot down and tell people you are tired of crying and you want more happiness in your life. Build up your own financial security. (Joint assets with someone you are not married to, and don't have a legal contract with, are just stupid.)

 

You sound like a very smart and caring person. You can be of much more help to the people you love if you respect yourself and be a good role model for how to be a smart, caring, and financially stable adult. People will not love you less for this, they will love you more. Although they may get mad in the beginning, if they really love you, they will want what's best for you.

 

Take good care of yourself, you are worth it!

 

A friend.

[Thinkalot]

Hi...your words regarding my mum and I ring true. I am aware I need to step back fromthat situation, and am gradually doing so. No matter how hard it is. Thanks for making it clear again though.

 

Your words about my partner, however, are a bit off the mark. We are now engaged, and will marry next April. He is a loving and supportive man, and we have sorted through many issues during our past 3 years together. He is not the most easy going person in the world, and neither am I, but we are committed to working together, and trying to improve all the time. We are very much in love, and excited about our future. We used to have a separate expense account each, but decided to put our money together, as at the moment we are saving for our joint goal, which is to take a year off work after we marry, and travel around Australia with our caravan. When we come back home, we'll again set up separate personal accounts...with a joint expense account. I trust him completely, and he trusts me.

 

Any past disputes over money...and indeed, my mum...we have sorted through, well and truly.