The best post i have ever seen on affairs. READ

[Angel1111]

I think there's a lot of truth in this post but I will say that it's rarely a good idea to walk away with anger and rage and hate over these situations. It's so easy to make accusations and call the married person a liar, user, cheater, etc. Maybe in some cases, the married person is a habitual liar and cheater but, in most cases, they can feel just as caught in the middle as anyone. We'd all like it to be one way or another, black or white, but it's rarely that way. Everyone would be so much better off if they could make peace with these situations. By that, I mean walk away from it, yes, but walk away believing that the person you were once with and loved is still a good person and that they most likely never meant to hurt you. It helps.

[OldOnTheInside]

Do you truly not know how you (and many other of your like-opined posters) come across? Seriously?

Your question goes both ways...

 

Why can't you accept their opinions without being so judgemental cheer? Situations are hardly black and white. Often, life is a shade of grey. All sides have shades of truth.

 

Every r/s has the chance of failure, or severing, or heartbreak, or boredom, or fizzling, or humiliation, or despair. Likewise, every r/s has the chance of joy, or frutifulness, or discovery, or comfort, or longevity, or warmth, or ecstasy. I've just learned that many OW in A have a far higher chance of depair and humiliation than does ANYONE else in ANY OTHER setup! If it bothers you, to hear me say so, then kindly show me the error in my thinking.

Beautifully said IMO. And I'm not a fan of kissing *ss either.

 

Going along on this subject, if there is one thing that I think is quite obvious, it's that people are more inclined to accept arguments that are more in line with their own thinking, while also being overly-dismissive of arguments that they do not agree with. What an amazing coincidence that is...

 

Everyone would be so much better off if they could make peace with these situations. By that, I mean walk away from it, yes, but walk away believing that the person you were once with and loved is still a good person and that they most likely never meant to hurt you. It helps.

I agree with the first sentence, everybody must find peace in their own way, rather than being consumed by discord.

 

Somebody feel free to expand on the bolded bit plz. That, I'm not so sure is always the most realistic attitude.

 

THis is one EFFED UP support board.

You haven't spent enough time on the internet my dear. There is a distinctive lack of bizarre pornography on here, for one thing. No comments egging OP to kill him/herself. No jokes about HIV. We also need more rping furries. This board is quite tame by comparision. Edited July 19, 2011 by OldOnTheInside

[SoleMate]

cheergirl said:

 

Are you actually serious?

Do you truly not know how you (and many other of your like-opined posters) come across? Seriously?

Apparently not. Would you be willing to explain how I "come across" in a way that makes my posts less useful? Reference to my actual posts would be most helpful. I would definitely like to tailor my anti-A-for-OW message to be as effective as possible.

 

I guess I should confess to a spot of thread hijacking here. I don't really find myself in total agreement with the original poster. He made affairs sound like a 100% certain disaster, whereas I think they are more like a 96% certainty of a bad outcome and in maybe 20-30% of the cases, life-changing or life-destroying disasters. More so for the longer term ones, of course.

 

So if I am lucky enough to get some response to this, I would appreciate acknowledgement of the slight differences between the OP and me. But I don't require it. I will take whatever criticism of my ideas and statements (or of my personality, likely motives and "tone" if you prefer) that I can get. I'm feeling very emotionally resilient right now.

[Summer Breeze]

Have you not read the insults and derogatory attitude toward those who have an opinion different than a certain subset of OW? Many OW and BS have no yrouble sharing opinions and advice, and then there are a few who can't get along with any but a small handful of posters.

 

Sorry donna but I'm not quite sure what you're asking. Of course I see the insults and derogatory attitudes of everyone. I also see the merits of people who have been on here for a very long time trying to share something and help people heal.

 

It may be that this has been one really long and miserable day but I can't see what you're saying. I'm not trying to be argumentative or thick. Please just give me the benefit of the doubt-I think I just finished the second Monday of the week!

[Summer Breeze]

Great point that I will remember and repeat!

 

In fact, the AP is not even as good as single. They have the downsides of commitment (not free to pursue a meaningful r/s) and few of the upsides (companionship, security etc.).

 

Take a look, do the math, then just say NO to EMA, boys and girls, please!

 

Why are APs not free to pursue other Rs? I did. I loved my xMM with all of my being but it was what it was and nothing more. From the start he knew I dated and there were quite a few times I changed plans with him because I had dates. I had a similar situation with a man I was seeing who travelled for work and I actually saw far less than xMM (that was from another time in my life, not the same time). I am absolutely not saying every A was like mine but I made up some ground rules at the beginning and I didn't give an inch.

[Angel1111]

I agree with the first sentence, everybody must find peace in their own way, rather than being consumed by discord.

 

Somebody feel free to expand on the bolded bit plz. That, I'm not so sure is always the most realistic attitude.

 

I can expand on it. I haven't been on this site for probably almost a year or so but something happened recently that I wanted to share with others here, something that gave me a lot of peace.

 

My xMM is the owner of the company I work for so, needless to say, this has created a lot of problems for me, even after ending the affair. He is also someone I feel a strong attachment to - not in the sick 'I can't let go this relationship' kind of way - but we have a real, deep friendship that is very difficult to walk away from. But staying friends after the affair has had its problems and there has been a lot to work through.

 

Recently I was basically at the point of completely ending everything with him - removing him from facebook, stopping talking to him - just getting him out of my life as much as possible. But I couldn't hit that delete key, I couldn't hit the send button that told him I was done. So I thought about it some more and realized that the reason for that was because, unlike some of my other exes, xMM is a person that I know is a good person. I know a lot about him and I don't believe at all that it was his intention to hurt me or make me feel bad.

 

So I told him that I decided that the hang-over feelings of hurt and pain of the affair are not worth losing our friendship over. I told him that I was sick of the whole topic, that I was an idiot for getting involved with someone who was married and an idiot for ever thinking it was anything more than what it was. I told him that I know he's a good person and that he never meant to hurt me. End of story. I'm done. I'm done feeling bad, I'm done letting this crap wreck my days, and I'm done feeling like I wasn't good enough, or beating myself up about getting involved in the first place. I'm just done with the pain. He's a good man, he's my friend, he's someone I once cuddled with and kissed. He's special to me. That's it. Over and out. I'm happy and at peace now. I have my friend and I have my happiness.

 

The trick here is that a) xMM never made promises to me that he didn't keep, and b) his wife doesn't know about the affair (as far as I know) so that part isn't an issue. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree and say that he and I shouldn't talk anymore but I'm just letting others know that even if they don't want to have a friendship but want to walk away in peace, then remember that the xMM was and it probably a good person. It was just a bad circumstance. There's no harm in believing in the good in people. It's better for you and your happiness.

[pureinheart]

I can expand on it. I haven't been on this site for probably almost a year or so but something happened recently that I wanted to share with others here, something that gave me a lot of peace.

 

My xMM is the owner of the company I work for so, needless to say, this has created a lot of problems for me, even after ending the affair. He is also someone I feel a strong attachment to - not in the sick 'I can't let go this relationship' kind of way - but we have a real, deep friendship that is very difficult to walk away from. But staying friends after the affair has had its problems and there has been a lot to work through.

 

Recently I was basically at the point of completely ending everything with him - removing him from facebook, stopping talking to him - just getting him out of my life as much as possible. But I couldn't hit that delete key, I couldn't hit the send button that told him I was done. So I thought about it some more and realized that the reason for that was because, unlike some of my other exes, xMM is a person that I know is a good person. I know a lot about him and I don't believe at all that it was his intention to hurt me or make me feel bad.

 

So I told him that I decided that the hang-over feelings of hurt and pain of the affair are not worth losing our friendship over. I told him that I was sick of the whole topic, that I was an idiot for getting involved with someone who was married and an idiot for ever thinking it was anything more than what it was. I told him that I know he's a good person and that he never meant to hurt me. End of story. I'm done. I'm done feeling bad, I'm done letting this crap wreck my days, and I'm done feeling like I wasn't good enough, or beating myself up about getting involved in the first place. I'm just done with the pain. He's a good man, he's my friend, he's someone I once cuddled with and kissed. He's special to me. That's it. Over and out. I'm happy and at peace now. I have my friend and I have my happiness.

 

The trick here is that a) xMM never made promises to me that he didn't keep, and b) his wife doesn't know about the affair (as far as I know) so that part isn't an issue. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree and say that he and I shouldn't talk anymore but I'm just letting others know that even if they don't want to have a friendship but want to walk away in peace, then remember that the xMM was and it probably a good person. It was just a bad circumstance. There's no harm in believing in the good in people. It's better for you and your happiness.

 

Hi Angel!!!!! ((((((((((hugs))))))))) It is possible to remain friends...in my case, that's how it should have been all along...there doesn't have to be hate or condescending verbage...it does happen, although it's best if it doesn't...good to see you BTW:)

[Summer Breeze]

I liked the post and all the back and forth from the people that are still involved in someone else's household and those who are not. But at the end of the day the MM/MW goe's home to the Fam and all is well. The OM/OW is sitting somewhere all alone that why it's called cheating not dating. If that how you want to spend your time then have at it, IMO you could be sitting with another single person of which there are many and at the end of that day you at least know where you truly stand in the big picture because your in it. Not off to the side in the closet or better yet not the closet because you can't even come to the house un-invited. Strangers tend to frighten the little kids and the police frown on intruders.

 

With all due respect I don't think when someone returns home 'all is well'. When I found out my xH was cheating I never looked at our life together the same again. We were done immediately but he destroyed all of the 'all is well' moments we had. We had none. When I was an OW my xMM went home and did whatever he did but by virtue of having an A there wasn't a bit of 'all is well'. As an AP I was fine. I had friends and I dated and my life went on as normal. I was never put in a closet and I was surrounded by single people that I socialized with. I get the gist of what you're saying and I also know that my A was quite different but you can't just lay it out like that. You seem to be trying to make the AP look like some pathetic hanger on. Maybe some are but I'd lay 10 to 1 they would be the same in ANY r, not just with an MP.

[Summer Breeze]

I can expand on it. I haven't been on this site for probably almost a year or so but something happened recently that I wanted to share with others here, something that gave me a lot of peace.

 

My xMM is the owner of the company I work for so, needless to say, this has created a lot of problems for me, even after ending the affair. He is also someone I feel a strong attachment to - not in the sick 'I can't let go this relationship' kind of way - but we have a real, deep friendship that is very difficult to walk away from. But staying friends after the affair has had its problems and there has been a lot to work through.

 

Recently I was basically at the point of completely ending everything with him - removing him from facebook, stopping talking to him - just getting him out of my life as much as possible. But I couldn't hit that delete key, I couldn't hit the send button that told him I was done. So I thought about it some more and realized that the reason for that was because, unlike some of my other exes, xMM is a person that I know is a good person. I know a lot about him and I don't believe at all that it was his intention to hurt me or make me feel bad.

 

So I told him that I decided that the hang-over feelings of hurt and pain of the affair are not worth losing our friendship over. I told him that I was sick of the whole topic, that I was an idiot for getting involved with someone who was married and an idiot for ever thinking it was anything more than what it was. I told him that I know he's a good person and that he never meant to hurt me. End of story. I'm done. I'm done feeling bad, I'm done letting this crap wreck my days, and I'm done feeling like I wasn't good enough, or beating myself up about getting involved in the first place. I'm just done with the pain. He's a good man, he's my friend, he's someone I once cuddled with and kissed. He's special to me. That's it. Over and out. I'm happy and at peace now. I have my friend and I have my happiness.

 

The trick here is that a) xMM never made promises to me that he didn't keep, and b) his wife doesn't know about the affair (as far as I know) so that part isn't an issue. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree and say that he and I shouldn't talk anymore but I'm just letting others know that even if they don't want to have a friendship but want to walk away in peace, then remember that the xMM was and it probably a good person. It was just a bad circumstance. There's no harm in believing in the good in people. It's better for you and your happiness.

 

There are ome differences in our stories but I came to the same conclusion too. There came a point where it was done. It had gone as far as it ever would and I wanted more. It wasn't going to happen so I called and told him that I loved him with all of my heart and I thought he was one of the most wonderful people I have ever met in my life and there wasn't a thing or a moment that I would ever regret.

 

It was done and the end was there. He tried to email and call and I don't. I don't want to give him hope things could resume. I miss him every day and I still get flowers on Valentines and my birthday. Once in a while an email lands and I tuck it aside unread.

 

It was done and I'm not one for drama so I let it be done. I can see your work situation could make a similar end much more difficult but I think we kind of were on the same page. Best to you Babes.

[Angel1111]

With all due respect I don't think when someone returns home 'all is well'. When I found out my xH was cheating I never looked at our life together the same again. We were done immediately but he destroyed all of the 'all is well' moments we had. We had none. When I was an OW my xMM went home and did whatever he did but by virtue of having an A there wasn't a bit of 'all is well'. As an AP I was fine. I had friends and I dated and my life went on as normal. I was never put in a closet and I was surrounded by single people that I socialized with. I get the gist of what you're saying and I also know that my A was quite different but you can't just lay it out like that. You seem to be trying to make the AP look like some pathetic hanger on. Maybe some are but I'd lay 10 to 1 they would be the same in ANY r, not just with an MP.

 

Well, not exactly a pathetic hanger-oner. I'm speaking in broad terms, I know. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we all need to understand that we do the 'affair dance' together. No matter how naive we were going into it, if we knew we were involved with a married person, then we already know the risk. All I'm really trying to say is that if the xMM is overall a good person and the two of you didn't end up together, what's the sense in calling them names and acting like they're the freakin' evil empire?

 

Not trying to sound all polyanna here but most people are good. Most people who get involved in affairs don't see it through and don't anticipate the kind of fall-out that can happen. I'm just saying, for your own peace of mind, try to remember that the xMM is probably a good person who got into a very sticky situation. You know, the married person's spouse could turn you into a villain if he/she so desired - and they often do - but really the affair doesn't define anyone to that degree, does it?

[Angel1111]

Hi Angel!!!!! ((((((((((hugs))))))))) It is possible to remain friends...in my case, that's how it should have been all along...there doesn't have to be hate or condescending verbage...it does happen, although it's best if it doesn't...good to see you BTW:)

 

Hey, you! Good to see you, too. I hope you've been well.

[Angel1111]

There are ome differences in our stories but I came to the same conclusion too. There came a point where it was done. It had gone as far as it ever would and I wanted more. It wasn't going to happen so I called and told him that I loved him with all of my heart and I thought he was one of the most wonderful people I have ever met in my life and there wasn't a thing or a moment that I would ever regret.

 

It was done and the end was there. He tried to email and call and I don't. I don't want to give him hope things could resume. I miss him every day and I still get flowers on Valentines and my birthday. Once in a while an email lands and I tuck it aside unread.

 

It was done and I'm not one for drama so I let it be done. I can see your work situation could make a similar end much more difficult but I think we kind of were on the same page. Best to you Babes.

 

You're smart to not go back and forth. I ended it so many times with xMM and that's part of the anger that stayed with me. I let myself believe that him wanting me back so badly actually meant that we'd end up together. I see now how dumb I was and wish with all my heart that I had never let him back in. The first time I ended it with him was 2 wks into the affair. I should've stuck with my instincts and never gone back. But I didn't and I can't undo it now. For you, though, I admire you. You did the right thing -- for you and for everyone involved. Best to you, too.

[SecretFlower]

Wow, where was this ten years ago? I completely agree and wish I had known what I know now all those years ago. I think if OW could see the end result of their affairs they would never put themselves in the position.

[OWoman]

I think if OW could see the end result of their affairs they would never put themselves in the position.

 

If I knew back then we'd end up happily M and living here, I'd have run a mile. It so wasn't what I wanted back then... But then, all of my other As had turned out well, so how was I to know this one would be different?

 

Still, I'm really pleased with how it has ended up - even though it wasn't what I'd originally wanted, or expected!

[Got it]

Slink off? No! Let's all keep talking in a spirit of truly trying to understand. But I would definitely like an answer to my questions below:

 

Seriously, my friends who talk up affairs for OW, WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH? A balanced view of the facts? Who exactly do you want to convince, and why?

 

 

 

If I have vilified, or appeared to vilify, I am truly sorry. I was not aware of it. Nor did I intend it, because my feelings are sympathetic and supportive towards practically all LS posters, including OW who talk up affairs. (If you can point out where I vilified or was offensive, I will certainly retract those comments and be more careful next time.) I do acknowledge that there are some happy former APs out there. I just have seen that the number is tiny relative to the huge number who are very misled.

 

While I'm typing, I'd also like to speak out against the pro-A-OW line of discourse that basically says, "Most people/women in affairs who suffer are having trouble because they are doormats and/or don't know how to handle relationships and/or otherwise have something wrong with them that pre-dated the affair. Savvy, attractive women of high self esteem do very well in affairs. People who disagree are either bitter betrayed spouses or doormat OW."

 

 

 

Glad to hear it!

 

 

No? You believe that such people are absolutely impervious to advice? I don't. I believe that many people teetering on the verge of affairs can and should be reached, and warned. Likelihood of success? I'm not holding my breath, but I'll feel better if I speak the truth as I know it.

 

I'm happy to discuss my motives. They are primarily humanitarian and data-driven. I'd love to hear motives from the pro-A-OW as well.

 

Why do you have an issue with the "pro-A line"?

 

While I am not anti-A, I am not pro-A but I will say that some can be happy and fullfilling and I do not regret mine. I do think that seeing many differernt perspectives is rewarding to any reader or poster here and controlling that is unproductive.

 

While I do not see me having an affair again, as I always stated I was in it because of him not to be in an affair, I don't regret it for a minute. Even if I wasn't still with him now I learned so much about him, most definitely myself, relationships, love, etc that I would be remiss in wishing it away. It was one of the most humbling, fullfilling, enriching, educational times of my life. And I am thankful for that.

 

It wasn't easy, but nothing meaningful usually is. And it wasn't always wonderful. But I can't regret the lessons learned.

[Got it]

Wow, that's great! You make it sound really fun and really special. Can you share tips on how to assure a successful and enjoyable affair? I would love to have lots of affairs with MM, just like you!

 

Sole, is that helpful or hurtful with your tone? I don't agree that you are open to hearing differing opinions as you are very condescending towards those that differ from you.

 

No relationship can ensured to be successful. The success rate of dating is quite low so it is not surprising that EMRs aren't either. If you look at stats on long term happiness in marriages, the percents do not point to happy couples.

 

I can offer tips based on my experience on how I had a happy EMR. That may not mean it will work for others but it did work for me.

 

But I don't think you are truly interested, what you are looking for is "yes ma'am" and a drinking of your koolaide or you denounce and minimize the poster and their comments.

[NoIDidn't]

What in the world is the above? A post or a rant?

 

Its really not that serious.

[SoleMate]

You know, I've always been anti-affair with MM, but now I'm starting to wonder what I've been missing due to my dogmatic rejection of this type of r/s. I would love to experience the wild passion or lavish gifts or total control or certainty of no future or whatever else is available in MM-r/s, that isn't available with a SG.

 

I've always made kneejerk assumptions that an A would be humiliating or hurtful or depressing or embarrassing. But I don't actually KNOW that, since I've never tried it.

 

What is the best place to meet MM? Would workplace be preferred? Or online? Is it preferable to look for one who says he'll never leave his wife, or one that says he's got one foot out the door?

 

How can I tell if I'm good enough for an A with a MM? Is the competition stiff or is it perhaps a bit easier than finding a monogamous sex partner/love interest?

 

Bottom line, how can I decide if an A is the right choice for me?

[Silly_Girl]

Why do you have an issue with the "pro-A line"?

 

While I am not anti-A, I am not pro-A but I will say that some can be happy and fullfilling and I do not regret mine. I do think that seeing many differernt perspectives is rewarding to any reader or poster here and controlling that is unproductive.

 

While I do not see me having an affair again, as I always stated I was in it because of him not to be in an affair, I don't regret it for a minute. Even if I wasn't still with him now I learned so much about him, most definitely myself, relationships, love, etc that I would be remiss in wishing it away. It was one of the most humbling, fullfilling, enriching, educational times of my life. And I am thankful for that.

 

It wasn't easy, but nothing meaningful usually is. And it wasn't always wonderful. But I can't regret the lessons learned.

 

I feel similarly in that even when we'd split up I felt it was meaningful and an experience that I valued due to what I learned about myself, love, relationships. I didn't choose to have an affair, but I did choose HIM and he was married. Think maybe Sole Mate's not comfortable with your take on things for whatever reason.

[NoIDidn't]

What in the world is the above? A post or a rant?

 

Its really not that serious.

 

The post that was above mine was deleted.

 

No longer relevant.

 

LOL

[Waffles]

Can't say I agree or disagree with the opening post. I won't b*tch about it just because it might have struck some other poster's nerves though.

 

What did I learn from my affairs as an OW and a WW? I learnt that I could be a real big c*nt. My BH, and the BW also agreed with that.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Waffles

[thomasb]

Calm down dear...

It's not your life, and it's not your spouse...

Shouting and swearing is unnecessary...

 

 

Actually, due to my own bad choices, it was my life. Thank God I pulled my head out of my ass.

[bentnotbroken]

Actually, due to my own bad choices, it was my life. Thank God I pulled my head out of my ass.

 

 

:laugh:Damn Thomas, you are on a roll today.

[thomasb]

:laugh:Damn Thomas, you are on a roll today.

 

Slow morning here at work! And I cannot stand hypocrasy. Sometimes I read here and have to step away from the computer so I don't say how I really feel.

[Got it]

You know, I've always been anti-affair with MM, but now I'm starting to wonder what I've been missing due to my dogmatic rejection of this type of r/s. I would love to experience the wild passion or lavish gifts or total control or certainty of no future or whatever else is available in MM-r/s, that isn't available with a SG.

 

I've always made kneejerk assumptions that an A would be humiliating or hurtful or depressing or embarrassing. But I don't actually KNOW that, since I've never tried it.

 

What is the best place to meet MM? Would workplace be preferred? Or online? Is it preferable to look for one who says he'll never leave his wife, or one that says he's got one foot out the door?

 

How can I tell if I'm good enough for an A with a MM? Is the competition stiff or is it perhaps a bit easier than finding a monogamous sex partner/love interest?

 

Bottom line, how can I decide if an A is the right choice for me?

 

As it is becoming quite apparent you miss the point. You have no interest in actually engaging in dialogue or hearing other points of view. Why ask?

 

You know what SoleMate, you are 100% correct, and everyone else who thinks differently is 100% wrong. Feel better?