donnamaybe Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 A lesson on egocentrism from someone who sneaks around with a MP behind the back of their spouse? Um, okay. Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 donna - do you truly not see how one can point out an issue, complex, discrepancy, etc in other areas even if they are not without flaws themselves? Please don't be naive or simple. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Wow donna, Naive and simple...2gether. At one time. You are special. Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 bent - actually there was an "or" in there not an "and". So it reads as one or the other though I guess I could have written naive and/or simple and thus would have encompassed both my statement and yours combined. But I do agree, donna does seem to be quite special. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Wow donna, Naive and simple...2gether. At one time. You are special. Yep, special. That's what my sweety tells me every day. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Yep, special. That's what my sweety tells me every day. ahhh:love::love: Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 bent - actually there was an "or" in there not an "and". So it reads as one or the other though I guess I could have written naive and/or simple and thus would have encompassed both my statement and yours combined. But I do agree, donna does seem to be quite special. Yes I read that. They both were used in one sentence at the same time, was my reference to Donna. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 But I do agree, donna does seem to be quite special. SO special, in fact, that my sweety wouldn't dream of expecting me to accept sharing him with anyone else. Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 SO special, in fact, that my sweety wouldn't dream of expecting me to accept sharing him with anyone else. If only all relationships were like that, eh? Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 That is fantastic. Happy to hear. Link to post Share on other sites
Summer Breeze Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 A lesson on egocentrism from someone who sneaks around with a MP behind the back of their spouse? Um, okay. I guess I don't understand your point here. An egocentric person is one that sees the world in terms of themselves and can't put themselves in anyone elses shoes. To me this would imply that they basically weren't able to care for anyone other than themselves. Maybe like a junior narcissist. Most ow on this board are constantly thinking of the MP. Many change their lives, to their own detriment, because they think it's the right thing for the MP. Many ltOW have supported the MM in making the decision to stay in the M for the children-I'm NOT debating if it's a lie or not because some will be and some won't be I'm just bringing it up. Are they thinking about the BS? Sometimes and when they are they're riddled with guilt. Sometimes not. I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't think most OW are egocentric. Many of the OW on here, single and MOW, think about the consequences and feel the guilt and still go on but that does not make them egocentric. It can make them any number of other things but not egocentric. I'll give you 2 donna-annoying and infuriating but I love your passion! You are special and your sweety better remember it! Link to post Share on other sites
OldOnTheInside Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 What the heck is this? The arm-chair internet psychology convention? Urgh...why can't we all just get along? Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 What the heck is this? The arm-chair internet psychology convention? Urgh...why can't we all just get along? Sorry. I just can't help myself when I see hypocrisy. It just BEGS to be addressed. Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Sorry. I just can't help myself when I see hypocrisy. It just BEGS to be addressed. That's something I can understand, but some folk will never ever see it.... Link to post Share on other sites
OldOnTheInside Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) Sorry. I just can't help myself when I see hypocrisy. It just BEGS to be addressed. Well, I wasn't initially referring to you donna. But it is a shame that you got hooked onto the troll bait. A poster that passive-aggressively implies that a large amount of the population on LS, suffers from a trait found in specific personality disorders, while using wikipedia as her source...eh, 'nuff said. If you can't actively ignore 'em, use the ignore list. Edited July 22, 2011 by OldOnTheInside Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Well, I wasn't initially referring to you donna. But it is a shame that you got hooked onto the troll bait. A poster that passive-aggressively implies that a large amount of the population on LS, suffers from a specific personality disorder, while using wikipedia as her source...eh, 'nuff said. If you can't actively ignore 'em, use the ignore list. Hilarious Link to post Share on other sites
Crabbies Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 That's something I can understand, but some folk will never ever see it.... :lmao::lmao: Link to post Share on other sites
fooled once Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Same here. Also applies to using illegal drugs, having a sex change operation, bungee jumping with an amateur harness, committing lucrative crimes, golfing during lightning storms, and having affairs. SOMETIMES (rarely) people derive great benefit from these actions. However, the majority of time the risks and destruction far outweigh the benefits. The difference is, you will find (virtually) nobody on these forums who encourages positive outlooks and optimism on using illegal drugs, bungee jumping, etc. OK, maybe I have seen, in the course of 8 years on this forum, ONE poster who made THREE posts about how cocaine was terrific and people should not be so uptight and negative about it. Compare that to the relentless drumbeat (6 years, 10,000 posts) from a number of individuals about the supposed positive side of affairs for OW. What is motivating these posters? Is there some kind of commission offered for every reluctant potential OW whom these posters sway to the pro-affair side? Do they have some powerful need to convince others about the rightness of the path THEY took? (Why?) Is it offensive to hear the undoubted truth as revealed in Loveshack postings and in real life, that affairs are typically damaging and hurtful for OW? Do these pro-affair "OW" (including the one supposedly now happily married for years, yet still mysteriously identifying as OW) ever think about the misleading and hurtful effect they may be having on younger, less-experienced, more-impressionable women? I refer to those younger people who may be undergoing MM blandishments aimed at convincing them that an affair will be a fun and positive episode, likely leading to a great love affair, painless and guiltness vaporization of the wife and all the other MM impedimenta, and a delightful and lasting marriage? Please, I urge everyone to think of the effect of the words they post and the arguments they present. Why would people who seem otherwise rational, insist that the supposed success of ONE (count 'em, ONE) MM/OW relationship outweigh the HUNDREDS of appalling and heartbreaking OW tales we have heard on Loveshack? Seriously, my friends who talk up affairs for OW, WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH? A balanced view of the facts? Who exactly do you want to convince, and why? Soul, I really liked your post above. Thank you for it. I have seen posts to newbies who are 'unsure' of things and you will get the pro A people telling her to just enjoy it (paraphrasing) and see how things look down the road. That isn't helpful at all. Most posters join here hurting or needing advice, and to let them know that a couple people out of hundreds had their affair work out in their favor, for now, is pretty crappy IMHO. No woman should ever settle for less than they deserve and an A automatically means sharing, sneaking around and dishonesty. Like you, I do not understand those trying to convince others that being an OW is okay. It's not okay. It is destructive to your soul and hurtful to other people. There are far better alternatives. Haha and the two biggest regrets I have are that I ever smoked cigarettes and ever sold myself short in an affair. Great post!!! This is in response to you and the person you were responding to-think it was Sole Mate. If you read what these OW are pointing out you'd see your comments are pretty off base. These OW, and myself when I was one, never gave up themselves. They never gave up their power and control in the situation. Any R where you give it up you flounder. I do not condone As for anyone but if someone is in one they need to look at it carefully and make sure they are not giving up themselves and their power. For me that was not giving up my life. I loved him with all of my heart but knew his situation. I never asked him to leave. He loved me and he knew my situation and he never asked me to stop dating and living my life. I would no more have stopped dating to show him my love than nothing. If he had come to me and said the M was over then I would have mirrored what he did. I never hid and I never lied. I was up front with him and each time his W spoke to me I talked directly to her and answered her questions. We went on holidays and he was there for support during some pretty disturbing times that had nothing to do with him. I refused to let him treat me less than I deserved and if he had then it would have ended. When I was to the point I needed more I ended it. The danger is when anyone gives up who and what they are in ANY R and are vulnerable and feel powerless. I say that for OW and for many BS who have been gaslighted. I was a BS many years before being an OW and I never gave up my power there either. I have yet to see any of the older OW actually cheering and encouraging any of the younger OW into continuing in their situation. They may warn and tell them to be careful but you make it sound like we're jumping up and down with our pom poms and a marching band. Get a grip and read what's being written. But Summer, many of the posters here DO come here sad, lonely, hurt, etc. Most admit to self esteem issues, self doubt, etc. They aren't strong, independent happy women. Why would those people come to a support site anyway (the happy people)? No woman should ever give up her power in any relationship - I wholeheartedly agree. But have you read the many many posts from newer posters who find themselves sneaking around, lying, getting snippets of minutes, waiting and wondering. It is really sad and I would hope all people would encourage them to demand more from any relationship and if the person they are seeing won't give them more, then get out. IMany ltOW have supported the MM in making the decision to stay in the M for the children-I'm NOT debating if it's a lie or not because some will be and some won't be I'm just bringing it up. Are they thinking about the BS? Sometimes and when they are they're riddled with guilt. Sometimes not. I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't think most OW are egocentric. Many of the OW on here, single and MOW, think about the consequences and feel the guilt and still go on but that does not make them egocentric. It can make them any number of other things but not egocentric. When are OW thinking of the BS? Before having sex with her husband? Riddled with guilt? Doesn't guilt make people stop what they are doing and reevaluate? Doesn't riddled with guilt imply a mistake and doing whatever possible to stop doing that? Yet, OW continue with the affair..why? I also disagree with you that many OW on here think about the consequences of the affair. Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 When are OW thinking of the BS? Before having sex with her husband? Riddled with guilt? Doesn't guilt make people stop what they are doing and reevaluate? Doesn't riddled with guilt imply a mistake and doing whatever possible to stop doing that? Yet, OW continue with the affair..why? I also disagree with you that many OW on here think about the consequences of the affair. I would disagree with this, as guilt does not make you stop doing things, it just makes you feel bad about doing it. Every time I'm on a diet or I'm supposed to be eating healthy and I eat some cake or fried food, I do feel guilty...but I eat it anyway. It is ONLY a certain resolve and moment of realization and feeling like enough is enough, when the numbers on the scale keep going up that I stop the behavior. When I was the OW I often felt guilty and my conscience bothered me and YES I actually did think of the gf when I had sex with her man for the first time..yes...right there in the bed I thought of it. Did I stop? No. I would talk to friends about it sometimes and I always got into arguments with him because of that guilt but I didn't actually stop until I got to a point of enough being enough. Guilt is only an indicator of their being dissonance between your actions and feelings with regard to some moral/ethical or other code but it is not always a force that stops that behavior, although sometimes it can be. Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I agree with Miss Bee. I also think guilt is great in that it can sneakily snowball whilst you're not looking and then affect your actions (whether diet or something more) but guilt can co-exist with the source of the guilt. Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Soul, I really liked your post above. Thank you for it. I have seen posts to newbies who are 'unsure' of things and you will get the pro A people telling her to just enjoy it (paraphrasing) and see how things look down the road. That isn't helpful at all. Why isn't it? If a poster joins and categorically states 'I cannot/will not give this R up now...' what on earth is the point in thirty posters shouting at her about how stupid she is and what awful doom awaits her? How open is she going to feel inclined to be when she next goes back on a promise to herself or gets herself in a pickle after shunning advice from posters? Some posters merely go 'underground' and don't return to the board - what support can you offer them THEN??? I'm glad there are a variety of responses in that situation, I think it's much better for the OP. No pom-poms required Link to post Share on other sites
OldOnTheInside Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 When are OW thinking of the BS? Before having sex with her husband? Riddled with guilt? Doesn't guilt make people stop what they are doing and reevaluate? Doesn't riddled with guilt imply a mistake and doing whatever possible to stop doing that? Yet, OW continue with the affair..why? I also disagree with you that many OW on here think about the consequences of the affair. I thought that you were once an OW, fooled. Or am I thinking of somebody else? Certainly you have done things that betray your own beliefs and ideologies at least once in your life. Right? I will agree that there are APs that feel zero regret or remorse. It's less about them being APs, and more a reflection of their own character though. Guilt is only an indicator of their being dissonance between your actions and feelings with regard to some moral/ethical or other code but it is not always a force that stops that behavior, although sometimes it can be. I'm sure that most of us have black spots on our previously pure white souls (it's a Socrates thing). Link to post Share on other sites
fooled once Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I thought that you were once an OW, fooled. Or am I thinking of somebody else? Certainly you have done things that betray your own beliefs and ideologies at least once in your life. Right? I will agree that there are APs that feel zero regret or remorse. It's less about them being APs, and more a reflection of their own character though. I'm sure that most of us have black spots on our previously pure white souls (it's a Socrates thing). What's your point OOTI? Yep, I was an OW - to a man who was separated when I met him and lied to me after we dated for a year. I am not saying anyone is perfect or we don't make mistakes. But for me, if I feel my actions or behavior is wrong or if I feel guilty, I don't keep doing that same thing. I didn't say in a marriage after I knew it was over. I didn't feel guilty, but I also knew it was wrong on my part to just stay married because ...... I didn't love him anymore and wanted him out of my life and my house. Since we share a kid, I couldn't get him out of my life but I got him out of my house Why isn't it? If a poster joins and categorically states 'I cannot/will not give this R up now...' what on earth is the point in thirty posters shouting at her about how stupid she is and what awful doom awaits her? How open is she going to feel inclined to be when she next goes back on a promise to herself or gets herself in a pickle after shunning advice from posters? Some posters merely go 'underground' and don't return to the board - what support can you offer them THEN??? why isn't what? Why isn't it helpful to tell a newbie who is struggling to just hang in there and she will get her hour that week when he sneaks away from his wife? I am not understanding what you have an issue with.. I haven't seen a poster join who categorically states they are NOT ending the relationship. And I haven't seen 30 posters jump all over someone who states that. And I don't see anyone calling anyone else stupid for doing that - plus that is against guidelines and I am sure it would be reported. What support can I offer someone who isn't on the board? None obviously. I can't make anyone stay at LS, nor can I make some leave. And normally you can't help people unless they want help or want to make a change. Can't make an alcoholic be sober if they don't admit there is an issue or aren't ready to make the change. Still not following your post...... Link to post Share on other sites
OldOnTheInside Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 What's your point OOTI?This. But for me, if I feel my actions or behavior is wrong or if I feel guilty, I don't keep doing that same thing.Everybody deals with their conscience differently. It's a minimalistic point. Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Soul, I really liked your post above. Thank you for it. I have seen posts to newbies who are 'unsure' of things and you will get the pro A people telling her to just enjoy it (paraphrasing) and see how things look down the road. That isn't helpful at all. Why isn't it? If a poster joins and categorically states 'I cannot/will not give this R up now...' what on earth is the point in thirty posters shouting at her about how stupid she is and what awful doom awaits her? How open is she going to feel inclined to be when she next goes back on a promise to herself or gets herself in a pickle after shunning advice from posters? Some posters merely go 'underground' and don't return to the board - what support can you offer them THEN??? I'm glad there are a variety of responses in that situation, I think it's much better for the OP. No pom-poms required FO: I've done the quote admin above. I didn't say: 'to tell a newbie who is struggling to just hang in there' or to say 'she will get her hour that week when he sneaks away from his wife?' They were actually your words. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts