What makes the "terminal" (marriage/etc) relationship different?

[zengirl]

Any thoughts, patterns, ideas anyone wants to share. I've noticed some patterns lately. For instance, I think they move quickly but not too quickly. Every person I know who's happily married said they wanted to say "ILY" before the third month and definitely said it before six months (usually closer to 3), for instance. I don't know why I've gotten "marriage statistics." I suppose because I'm the Queen of Almost, generally----of relationships that are great, healthy, lovely, but don't last for seemingly small reasons, and I'm hoping not to have too many more "almosts" along the way, hoping to learn something.

 

Anyway, any thoughts are welcome. Patterns are especially interesting to me!

[kiss_andmakeup]

Very interesting post, Zengirl.

 

While I consider myself an "almost" girl as well (my last relationship was likely headed for marriage had I not discovered that he was being a sneaky creep), I've noticed a similar pattern to the one you mentioned amongst friends, co-workers, and family.

 

It's been especially interesting because when I reflect on my married friends' previous relationships; some 1, 2, 3 years apiece; I remember thinking that they'd probably end up married. Those relationships eventually came to an end, and then perhaps within a month or a few they began to date again. When they had met the one who they indeed did end up marrying, I often thought at the beginning "man, they're moving a little fast..."

 

Perhaps they just knew they were the one?

 

One friend/co-worker in particular had a very passionate (but perhaps slightly dysfunctional) on-again/off-again relationship with a guy for over 5 years. When they finally called it quits, she began dating and within a few months met someone new. He proposed to her within 8 months and they're now happily married. He's drastically different from her ex in almost every way.

 

I hope more people respond to this post because I find it interesting.

[zengirl]

I've noticed "fast" relationships can go either way, though I do think all the "fast" relationships I've seen in "slow" people (particularly men) have gone well and many ended in marriage.

 

I wonder if a change in the usual speed (i.e. a normally "fast relationship" person being more thorough and slow or a normally "slow relationship" person diving in) is more indicative?

 

I'd be interested to hear more on that! And I've seen several patterns like the one you mention, where people go from a long-but-unengaged type relationship into a quick-met-him/her-finally mode and it works out. It's like you learn something in the long relationship, breathe a bit, and put it to work, I guess.

[Kamille]

I find the thread interesting too, but can see why it's hard to respond to it. I've been with bf for two years and it is, for me, by far, the most significant relationship in my life. We also talk marriage and both hope we'll be together forever. But even then, I don't know if this is my "terminal" relationship. (Which makes it sound like a fatal disease ). I've never believed in "the one" and have always thought that when it comes to love, there is no recipes, just two people doing the best they can.

 

If anything, our relationship evolved slower than all my past relationships. That helped me deal with some of my issues. It helped us set up a decent pattern for communication before the stakes got too high. So if anything is different it's that communication is extremely easy with bf.

[zengirl]

nship in my life. We also talk marriage and both hope we'll be together forever. But even then, I don't know if this is my "terminal" relationship. (Which makes it sound like a fatal disease ).

 

Haha, yes, it's a silly phrase. But I like it better than "life partner" which makes me want to gag.

[Kamille]

Haha, yes, it's a silly phrase. But I like it better than "life partner" which makes me want to gag.

 

I was posting at the same time as your post #4. If my current R qualifies as a "terminal" one, than yes, you may be right that the change of pace is significant, at least on my end.

 

Bf, on the other hand, seemed fine with the pace. But he was also convinced, very early on, that we were "good together", ie, that we had what it takes to make it long long term.

[OliveOyl]

Not sure this is the best place to really ask, since probably the majority of people here are wanting to date, or dating but not sure whether they're in their "terminal" relationship or not.

 

With most of my married friends, I wasn't there when their relationships started, so I basically have a sample size of one. I consider my marriage a terminal relationship since it lasted over 15 years, even though it has now terminated.

 

With my ex I said "ILY" at 3-4 months, but I knew within 2 months I wanted to marry him. It moved at an average pace, getting engaged at the year mark and married six months later. He was also my first significant long-term relationship.

[zengirl]

Not sure this is the best place to really ask, since probably the majority of people here are wanting to date, or dating but not sure whether they're in their "terminal" relationship or not.

 

With most of my married friends, I wasn't there when their relationships started, so I basically have a sample size of one. I consider my marriage a terminal relationship since it lasted over 15 years, even though it has now terminated.

 

With my ex I said "ILY" at 3-4 months, but I knew within 2 months I wanted to marry him. It moved at an average pace, getting engaged at the year mark and married six months later. He was also my first significant long-term relationship.

 

I'm mostly looking for "observations" from people who AREN'T yet there, honestly. To see what they think it looks like from the outside. So, it's okay if the people themselves aren't in the "terminal" relationship. I'd still like to hear any thoughts they might have!

[musemaj11]

What is with women's obsession with marriage really?

 

This is a serious question.

 

Is it about commitment? You know that marriage doesnt mean nothing about commitment right? A lot of marriages end in a couple years or even months.

 

Why not just focus on finding and keeping a happy and lasting relationship instead of obsessing over a piece of paper that guarantees nothing about the solvency of the relationship.

[kiss_andmakeup]

What is with women's obsession with marriage really?

 

This is a serious question.

 

Is it about commitment? You know that marriage doesnt mean nothing about commitment right? A lot of marriages end in a couple years or even months.

 

Why not just focus on finding and keeping a happy and lasting relationship instead of obsessing over a piece of paper that guarantees nothing about the solvency of the relationship.

 

While I do think there are women who are obsessed with marriage, I don't believe that that particular issue is at the heart of this thread.

 

More just sharing experiences and discussing for interest's sake.

[Ruby Slippers]

What is with women's obsession with marriage really?

 

This is a serious question.

I think it's because if you get a good husband, you 'win'.

 

Even though I agree that the institute of marriage is dying out and will probably eventually be nearly extinct, I admit there's part of me that thinks I won't really 'win' at life unless I end up with a good husband. Silly, I know.

 

On the other hand, I don't know of a single marriage that I would want to be in. I'm starting to think the 'no shackles' approach is best.

[zengirl]

What is with women's obsession with marriage really?

 

This is a serious question.

 

Is it about commitment? You know that marriage doesnt mean nothing about commitment right? A lot of marriages end in a couple years or even months.

 

Why not just focus on finding and keeping a happy and lasting relationship instead of obsessing over a piece of paper that guarantees nothing about the solvency of the relationship.

 

Hence why I used "terminal" relationship, as I think marriage is only one option of that.

 

For me, it's the only one I'd take, as I like promises and that's the ultimate promise you can make to another. But that's just my view, and not the purpose of this thread. There are many threads here to debate marriage; that's not the goal here. Any terminal relationship . . . not just marriage.

[musemaj11]

I think it's because if you get a good husband, you 'win'.

 

Even though I agree that the institute of marriage is dying out and will probably eventually be nearly extinct, I admit there's part of me that thinks I won't really 'win' at life unless I end up with a good husband. Silly, I know.

 

On the other hand, I don't know of a single marriage that I would want to be in. I'm starting to think the 'no shackles' approach is best.

Just like men are still mentally shackled by generations old belief that their worth in life is tied to their financial success and its their job to support women, I think women, too at subconscious level are still mentally shackled by generations old belief that they are unwanted products (spinsters) if they cant find someone to marry them and they are less of a woman if they never had children.

 

Hence why I used "terminal" relationship, as I think marriage is only one option of that.

 

For me, it's the only one I'd take, as I like promises and that's the ultimate promise you can make to another. But that's just my view, and not the purpose of this thread. There are many threads here to debate marriage; that's not the goal here. Any terminal relationship . . . not just marriage.

Okay, I get your meaning now.

 

I think terminal relationship is too much of a romantic fantasy that involves so many variables.

 

But the biggest common factor that affects the longevity of most relationships is compatibility. A couple of film aficionados who spend most of their time going to the movies or watching movies together are going to make a more lasting relationship than a couple who do not have strong common interests.

 

The indoor soccer place in my neighborhood for example is owned by a couple in their 40s who have been together for 20 years. Both of them are soccer maniacs. They have two boys and the whole family spend most of their time playing in soccer tournaments in a team comprised of their direct family members.

 

Opposites attract, but they dont match.

Edited May 31, 2011 by musemaj11

[Woggle]

I think it's because if you get a good husband, you 'win'.

 

Even though I agree that the institute of marriage is dying out and will probably eventually be nearly extinct, I admit there's part of me that thinks I won't really 'win' at life unless I end up with a good husband. Silly, I know.

 

On the other hand, I don't know of a single marriage that I would want to be in. I'm starting to think the 'no shackles' approach is best.

 

This attitude is precisely why so many men are afraid of commitment these days. We want a woman that is truly interested in building a life together rather than somebody who wants to be validated by a wedding. Women tend to look at marriage as the end goal while men tend to look at it as the start.

 

Sorry to go off topic but this mentality is what makes most men want to run for the hills when a woman starts having the marriage conversations. These are the kind of women who tend to drop the divorce bomb when they outgrow the need for a husband.

 

As for the couples I know who eventually made it most of the relationships were built on a solid foundation instead of some whirlwind butterflies.

[musemaj11]

Women tend to look at marriage as the end goal while men tend to look at it as the start.

As the old saying goes,

 

"Women worried until she found a husband. Men never worried until he found a wife." :laugh:

[tigressA]

I have quite a few friends who are married now or are going to be before the year's out. In most of the cases, they were together for at least several years before the guy even proposed, mostly because we were all still in college. But everyone who was close to them (like me), and they themselves, just "knew" that they were going to be together forever. We all expected nothing else. In one situation, a formerly close friend of mine met her now-husband during our freshman orientation week in '05 while she was still with her back-home boyfriend. Sparks flew and they were hooking up; she split with back-home guy and was officially coupled up with her H by New Year's--they were hook-up buddies until then because he was unsure of being in a relationship. They were engaged in summer '09 and married last fall. Another friend of mine met and married her guy after only about a year together. She was pregnant when they got married; they have a beautiful baby girl and seem very happy together.

 

My current R is my most significant. I really feel like it's terminal. I had that feeling after a week, and we had exchanged ILY after less than a month. This all came only a couple of months after my nasty breakup with my ex.

[Mrlonelyone]

I go to my favorite example. John and Abigail Adams. From reading John's letters to his wife I note he called her "my dearest friend". They were truly friends at the base of their relationship.

 

They were an intellectual match. Abigail was known to advise him during his presidency.

 

They were obviously romantically compatible.

 

A truly terminal marriage... unto death... has those elements. A basis in real friendship, intellectual, and romantic compatibility.

 

The problem I see is that too many people think friendship rules out romance so they end up with partners who they don't like as people. When the hot spark of lust runs out the relationship ends.

[Mrlonelyone]

@ tigress

 

Almost every college couple I knew like those you describe is now divorced.

[heartshaped]

I think it has something to do with the amount you have invested in the relationship and how committed you are to making things work as well.

 

Some of my relationships have ended for seemingly small reasons, but I find in those relationships I am never really too distraught when the relationship ends whether I am the one to initiate the break up or not.

 

I also find the more I have invested in a relationship the more willing I am to compromise on issues and the more willing I am to make sacrifices. I think the amount you invest in a relationship and the amount you are committed are related and directly effect whether or not your relationship is indeed a 'terminal' relationship.

 

There also seems to be a pattern of people going through a significant break up right before entering into their terminal relationship. I think there comes after a break up a certain level of clarity that can be used to view potential partners in a totally different light.

[utterer of lies]

What makes the "terminal" (marriage/etc) relationship different?

 

Hope.

[LittleTiger]

Either finding someone truly compatible who grows and changes over time in the same direction that you do OR being too afraid to risk the loneliness or financial difficulties of separation and/or divorce.

 

My exH and I took over twenty years to get together properly as a couple - I think that qualifies as slow. It took about 14 years, inluding 10 years of marriage to terminate. I thought he was the love of my life and he thought the same about me. We're still friends but I'm not sure I still believe in truly happy 'terminal' relationships. If they exist they're very rare. My ex is now on his third marriage and calls himself a serial monogamist!

 

For those who make it through to death, I believe it's more a question of staying-power or acceptance on both sides, than any mystical notion of keeping the romance alive for 50 + years.

 

My view is that the chances of marriages being terminal these days seems to be directly related to the year that you were born rather than the speed at which a couple gets together:

• Most people in their 70s or 80s are probably celebrating their Golden or Diamond Anniversaries very soon ie very few people divorced in our parents/grandparents days.
  
• People in their 50s or 60s are probably a mixture of still 'happily' married, 'hanging in there', going through a divorce, already divorced, on their second or third marriage or thinking about divorcing.
  
• Anyone younger than will probably either never get married or will get divorced if they do - even if it's after 30 years together.
  

I'm 46, divorced and engaged to be married again - this time everything happened at 20x the speed of my previous marriage. Will it last forever? Well, I have no intention of getting divorced again - but that's what I thought the first time.

[EasyHeart]

Any thoughts, patterns, ideas anyone wants to share. I've noticed some patterns lately. For instance, I think they move quickly but not too quickly. Every person I know who's happily married said they wanted to say "ILY" before the third month and definitely said it before six months (usually closer to 3), for instance. I don't know why I've gotten "marriage statistics." I suppose because I'm the Queen of Almost, generally----of relationships that are great, healthy, lovely, but don't last for seemingly small reasons, and I'm hoping not to have too many more "almosts" along the way, hoping to learn something.

 

Anyway, any thoughts are welcome. Patterns are especially interesting to me!

I don't think when people say "ILY" has anything to do with marriage or the success of relationships. Heck, most people don't know what it means and don't use it consistently themselves. Certainly from my male perspective the words themselves have little meaning and are mostly a expectancy that women have.

 

I think your statement that successful relationships move "quickly but not too quickly" is a right on, but of course "quickly" is subjective and relative. I think that we all eventually figure out that relationships the move "too quickly" also burn out "too quickly". They're a combination of lust/infatuation/wish-fulfillment that's perfectly normal when you're in your teens and twenties --- like in"Romeo & Juliet", which is why I usually call those "too quickly" relationships "teenage love". That usually wears off as you get older, but it never goes away. The big difference is that as you gain experience, your brain can take over and say, "Hold on a minute! Do I really like this person or am I just crushing?", which you really can't do when you're 16 or 22 (and many people can't do at 32 or 41, either!).

 

I don't think there is such a thing as "The One" person you are destined to marry. I think long-term/lifetime commitments are a combination of compatibility and timing. By "timing" I mean being at a place in the non-romantic part of your life (ie, school, career, family, friends, emotional development) that makes it possible for you to be available for a commitment. So I don't think it's possible to come up with patterns or an algorithm to define a good relationship.

 

To be honest, I wouldn't be too worried about being "the Queen of Almost". If your relationships tend to be in the 3-12 month range, I think that's good. These are your "practice relationships" where you're figuring out what you want and need out of a partner. You (and the guys you're dating) are making mistakes and learning from them so you won't make them when you get into that terminal relationship.

 

And at 26, frankly, you're at the very beginning of your peak desirability to men, so there's no need to rush or feel like you're doing something wrong. Not every relationship is supposed to lead to marriage. If they did, half the movies and all the pop songs in the world would never have been created.

[sunshinegirl]

Zengirl, I think my terminal relationship fits the pattern you've described. To an outsider, things moved quickly but to us the pace felt right. He flew to the midwest to meet my family 2 months into dating; we exchanged ILY four months into dating (though both had wanted to say it earlier); he asked for my parents' blessing five months in; we were engaged 7 months in, and married a year after our first kiss.

 

What made this R so different for me was our strong compatibility - in values, humor, hobbies, life experiences, desire for marriage and kids...and probably because of that, we felt an ease of being together that I had never experienced before. It was simply so easy to be with him: no drama, no strife, no confusion about what he wanted or why he treated me the way he did, and definitely no tears or angst. We never had to have serious discussions about anything that had to change for us to 'work'; there were no yellow or red flags; we were never on-off-on-off. We simply enjoyed and 'got' each other.

 

It may be worth mentioning that he also didn't fit my picture or type, physically speaking. I'll also say that I was 35 and he was 37 when we met, and timing certainly played a big role too. We were in the right place at the right time when we met.

[LittleTiger]

Zengirl, I think my terminal relationship fits the pattern you've described.

 

Without wishing to sound negative, although obviously I'm about to, how can anyone know their relationship is 'terminal' until they're on their deathbed and still married to (and living with) that person?

 

I have loved my exH since we were children and we, and everyone who knew us, thought we would be together for life. If you'd asked me 5 years ago, I would have said my marriage was 'terminal'.

 

People these days get divorced in their 60s and 70s after 40 years together, so if you're still young, no matter how long you've been together, you can't possibly know it will last forever - hope maybe, but not know for sure.

 

Unless, of course, I am misinterpreting the word 'terminal'?

 

Zengirl - just enjoy every relationship you have for what it is. If it doesn't work out, learn from any mistakes you made and move on. What's that saying? Where there's life there's hope!

[sunshinegirl]

Without wishing to sound negative, although obviously I'm about to, how can anyone know their relationship is 'terminal' until they're on their deathbed and still married to (and living with) that person?

 

If by terminal Zengirl meant "lasts until death" or maybe "does not break down because one partner walks away from the other", then practically speaking you're right. It's only in hindsight that one can know if their relationship was terminal.

 

In my case I'd say I'm with the person that I expect to be with for the rest of my life, and our relationship has about as much going for it as possible, so I figure we have about as good a chance as is possible to be in the terminal relationship of our lives. But you're wise to point out that anything can happen and we can't know for sure what the future holds. I have heard some heartbreaking stories of couples who seemed solid for years on end, only to have one partner walk away one day and never look back. I'm sorry to hear what happened to you, LittleTiger.