To Those With Hope

[Snowflower]

Sigh.

 

I knew someone couldn't resist getting nasty.

 

And they are now divorced, however it's a HABIT I have saying wife. That's what she is and was, even if it no longer legally. Only on here would that be such a big deal.

 

Good luck all.

 

I apologize if my question(s) offended.

 

I was just genuinely curious was all. A similar situation happened in my family--although siblings of the MM had some difficulties accepting the sudden change in their brother's choices.

 

Oddly, I think it shows a certain type of respect from you when you referred to her as his wife because that is what she was. Usually people say "his/her ex" and it always smacks of disrespect or disparagement, IMO.

 

Anyway, best of luck in your future happiness.

[bentnotbroken]

I apologize if my question(s) offended.

 

I was just genuinely curious was all. A similar situation happened in my family--although siblings of the MM had some difficulties accepting the sudden change in their brother's choices.

 

Oddly, I think it shows a certain type of respect from you when you referred to her as his wife because that is what she was. Usually people say "his/her ex" and it always smacks of disrespect or disparagement, IMO.

 

Anyway, best of luck in your future happiness.

 

 

I think she was talking to the poster Kriss and their comments.

[Silly_Girl]

This means he is only with you because the disclosure of the affair broke up his marriage. Not because he wanted to break up his marriage--the only reason he confessed was because he was about to be busted.

 

You "win" I guess.

 

Are you him?

[Lost00]

Thanks. Very insightful post.

[bentnotbroken]

It's not my fault that she kept referring to her affair partner's EX-wife as his "wife."

 

 

:confused:I don't think blame is being assigned to anyone. It was simply an explanation of who she directed the post in question to.

[waytogo]

It was a great and thoughtful post Anna. Please don't let a remark drive you away. Sometimes posts are taken in a way not intended. Maybe the poster didn't have nasty intent toward you. Maybe posted misunderstood some of what you wrote.

 

You have great insight from many perspectives most don't; adjusting to getting what you wanted being huge. You could do alot of good here.

[crazy love]

Hmmmm. Hostility much Kriss?

 

@Anna: I think that is a key element in breakups a lot of the time, communication or lack there of. It seems u have been able to identify with the real man behind the atmosphere of the affair. U sound very grounded and again thank u for your post and your openness.

[Anna101]

This means he is only with you because the disclosure of the affair broke up his marriage. Not because he wanted to break up his marriage--the only reason he confessed was because he was about to be busted.

 

You "win" I guess.

 

 

Yep, you're partly right. I doubt he would have left the marriage if it hadn't come to the crunch. He loves his kids more than he loves me and lets face it, starting all over and losing your house and family life is just not nice. He did want to break up his marriage to a degree, it just wasn't bad enough for him to leave and start all over, as is the story for many, many people. He also loves his wife (and yes I explained why I still say that...I don't feel the need to constantly put ex ex ex there, it's just habit). Like many divorced couples, it is not about the lack of love, it is about being unable to work as a couple.

 

However you're wrong in that's why we're together. He was afraid to leave that marriage and life, he is not afraid to be alone. That is why we did break up and we did start all over again with dating and getting to know each other without the affair.

 

I wasn't trying to 'win', as it seems you are....just telling how it is.

 

Snowflower - I wouldn't say she likes me or anything, heh....but she was always polite to my face and so there was no being bitchy or anything. I suspect the only reason is because she blames him more than she focused on me, that simple. He believes that she used to the affair to get out of the marriage as she wanted that too, but who knows.

[ShiningEyes]

Anna - I posted a new thread a few minutes ago... need some advice.

shinningeyes

[Anna101]

I just want to update this

 

It took quite a while but things have really settled down between us. There is no more ranting and sadness about his ex wife, they just keep it about the kids now. They are now officially divorced and have been for a while.

 

We moved into his old house, which *was* weird but I'm fine with it really, as I never saw them in the house so there are no 'memories' for me.

 

I think we have definitely weathered the worst of the post-affair time and it honestly feels like a world away.

 

One interesting thing I have taken away from it though is that it must have been more traumatic than I realised at the time because I HATE thinking about it and when something happens that reminds me of it, it really just feels horrible.

 

But anyway, we've really worked on our relationship and it's been hard but worth it Take care all.

[promises]

Thanks for sharing your story.

[18Years2Late]

Or perhaps never?

 

:bunny::bunny:Me Me Me...trust me its NEVER...EVER...

 

but Anna thanks for sharing...this thread was wonderful to read...in a weird way it helps me know that I'm actually the "winner"...if there was such a thing...I'm glad u are happy...nice to hear success stories sometime...so few and far between...

[Anna101]

OP, in your experienced opinion, how long should one continue to hang onto hope with an MM who refuses to end his marriage? 1 year? 3? 5? Forever?

 

Look honestly, I love my partner but he's typical of most men who have affairs in that he feared change, was attached to his 'life' and things have to get really really bad before they'd even consider leaving a marriage. It's not really about who is loved more a lot of the time, which is why it's so unlikely and rare that they do leave. He wanted to leave even before we met, and yet he tooks months and months to grieve the marriage. Unless there's some kind of catalyst, either emotionally within their marriage or something else, it's usually a lost cause.

 

We were in the affair about two years I think, and it definitely felt like it was all coming to a head around that time because two years felt...now or never. So for me, I think if you really do want some arbitrary answer, I think it's unlikely they'll leave past that time.

 

I can't remember if I said it earlier but there is just ONE thing I learnt that I think is important - when you feel they are pulling away but have no real evidence of it and think it's just in your head...believe yourself. He told me later that he would feel the guilt and want to end things and yet then we'd talk or see each other and he'd realise he couldn't, so I wasn't imagining it at all. Trust your intuition.

 

I think everyone has their own limit anyway....no matter what anyone else says.

[Tenacity]

2 years. Okay. So that seems to have been when YOUR personal BS meter would have gone off. So what would you say to someone who has waited nearly 10 years? Would you advise them that you believe their MP is stringing them along?

 

Just curious. Why are you pushing?

 

She shared her own personal experience, and when you pressed earlier she said "if you want an arbitrary response, I think they are unlikely to leave after 2 years" and then said "I think everyone has their own limit anyway" and you ask her what she would "advise" after 10 years? She answered that question, based on her own experience which she pointed out. What are you looking for?

[Tenacity]

IDK why YOU are pushing. I simply asked a question from an experienced person. I see a lot of people wasting their lives away. It might help them to hear the voice of experience.

 

If I ask YOU a question, please feel free to answer.

 

No need to get defensive. Last time I checked it was an open forum. I just didn't understand your question (and still don't) because she clearly stated her opinion earlier.

 

As I said, I was curious because your questions seemed more like jabs and baiting, and I hate to see people who come here to share their stories in an attempt to help get discouraged and be chased away. I don't think anyone interpreted these posts as a recommendation to wait years on end for someone to divorce. If anything, the opposite. This perspective is important too and these people endure such a hard time that they rarely post anymore. That is my opinion.

[Tenacity]

Indeed. Especially when one isn't even being addressed.

 

Indeed! That's the great thing about open internet forums - everyone gets to input

 

I think it's valuable to get insight from someone who has "been there done that." For everyone.

 

Exactly. And she has done a great job of giving her insight. That was my entire point

[Tenacity]

Look honestly, I love my partner but he's typical of most men who have affairs in that he feared change, was attached to his 'life' and things have to get really really bad before they'd even consider leaving a marriage. It's not really about who is loved more a lot of the time, which is why it's so unlikely and rare that they do leave. He wanted to leave even before we met, and yet he tooks months and months to grieve the marriage. Unless there's some kind of catalyst, either emotionally within their marriage or something else, it's usually a lost cause.

 

We were in the affair about two years I think, and it definitely felt like it was all coming to a head around that time because two years felt...now or never. So for me, I think if you really do want some arbitrary answer, I think it's unlikely they'll leave past that time.

 

I can't remember if I said it earlier but there is just ONE thing I learnt that I think is important - when you feel they are pulling away but have no real evidence of it and think it's just in your head...believe yourself. He told me later that he would feel the guilt and want to end things and yet then we'd talk or see each other and he'd realise he couldn't, so I wasn't imagining it at all. Trust your intuition.

 

I think everyone has their own limit anyway....no matter what anyone else says.

 

Thanks Anna for telling your story and the update. Due to the posting bias here (more people with bad outcomes post) we don't often hear of situations like yours. It helps to hear your perspective on what you have gone through and the reality that even when things work out in the end the way you would have wished, it's not an easy road to get there.

 

I can't say I would have done things the same way you did, but I agree with you that no one can predict what is right for anyone else in their own situation - whether to wait at all, or how long. I think people have their own timeline as you said, and deep down they know when it should be over if they will admit it to themselves. No one can say what is right for anyone else; we all make decisions and live with the outcomes of them.

 

I wish you the best.

[Anna101]

2 years. Okay. So that seems to have been when YOUR personal BS meter would have gone off. So what would you say to someone who has waited nearly 10 years? Would you advise them that you believe their MP is stringing them along?

 

 

Well my answer is obviously going to be that every relationship is different and it would depend on why they were waiting and why they said they were waiting. EG if they were waiting till the kids were older, then it COULD be true and the OW wouldn't have been waiting for a random day when it happens if that was always the plan. I think if by then a few "I'm leaving on THIS DATE" days had come and gone then yep I'd just think, like anybody else, that they were never going to be able to leave.

[Anna101]

Wow. Is that how you justify his lying to you? Sounds as though he's a selfish a*sshole whose biggest goal in life is pleasing HIMSELF.

 

 

Maybe for someone who has just about zero expectations in a person. But for those of us who actually value integrity, honesty, character and dignity in a relationship, that's NOT 'how it is.'

 

 

It's an affair, so by definition this involves trying to keep two people happy at once, or at the least one person in the dark. There is no way to achieve this without lying by default! Anyone who thinks that the wife is the ONLY person being lied to, even if it's totally white lies, is in denial.

[nofool4u]

Amazing post!

 

I really respect you for speaking so candidly about things.

 

I respect her for being one of the VERY rare people on this board that actually care about the pain they cause a family as oppose to only caring that they get what they want.

[Got it]

Although I am now on the 'other side' of the affair, I was the other woman and will not ignore the beginnings of how our relationship came about.

 

A lot of the 'post affair' posts on here are from those women where it did not work out, and so those who are all hopeful and happy ignore those because part of it is believing you are 'different'.

 

So, I am someone where it did work out for me. I got the man. We're happy. There are no trust issues. His family know all but accepted me. His kids know but accepted me. His wife was nice to me. Etc Etc.

 

But while this is all the good stuff, I need you to REALLY REALLY understand that what you are hoping for is going to really really hurt someone else. If you get what you want, they lose their loved one. Your man? He is going to grieve for his lost marriage because no matter HOW the marriage has become, 'attachment' to their life and a spouse they once or still love is still strong. No matter how much they love you, it is still going to shatter them and they are going to be in pain.

 

I understand wanting them. It is true that some affairs do work out, they do leave. IF they didn't, there'd no betrayed spouse forums with sad endings for a marriage. But there is still a LOT of pain involved no matter how good the outcome.

 

You will hurt because he hurts and because no matter how you want to think of it, you are one of the reasons for that hurt. He is too of course.

 

His wife will suddenly become a real person, not just a theoretical object that blocks all your plans. You will realise you are hurting a real person, you are one of the people involved in shattering her world, and even if it's true they aren't 'in love' anymore, they were once and it is still going to hurt like a bitch. You will probably find out she's even pretty nice....

 

If he has kids, you just contributed to changing their entire lives. Most will cope fine, but just like him, you need to put them first a lot now too.

 

You will probably find out that while most of the things he told you are true, some aren't. Even if he was faithful to you physically (mine was), to do this he would have had to keep her happy and non suspicious in other ways. He had to lie to you, sometimes because it really was for your benefit and other times because he was juggling two women. He probably felt bad about it, but the chances of *everything* he told you being true isn't high. Accept that a few lies happened as a result of the situation.....thats just how it is. It doesn't ultimately change anything.

 

The affair IS the easy part when it works out. Yeah the stress goes away, you no longer have to wait for his calls. It is AMAZING to be able to go to parties and be introduced as his partner and no longer have to hide. But it takes work, and a huge amount of trust and a bigger amount of understanding. He might change his mind a few times, he might cry and grieve over the loss of a wife you didn't think he cared about. He's lost his LIFE, and even though he made that happen it won't stop it hurting. You're going to have to ironically, take a backseat again and stand there and watch him grieve the loss of someone else.

 

Really REALLY think about if you want him. Because if he leaves for you, it's on you. Yeah on these forums they always say not to leave for anyone else, but they do. Most have been married for years and don't want to leave enough to lose their house, kids, and finances unless there is something better out there. It's a big strain on a NEW relationship (and yep, you start allll over!) so you have to really be committed.

 

You have to trust him. If you think you do now, you will rethink it when he's all yours anyway. It has to be a conscious decision to trust someone that you've WITNESSED lying and deceiving someone they have loved for sometimes years on end. It can be done, and many times it SHOULD be done because the 'once a cheater, always a cheater' cliche is just that, a cliche, not always true. But as much as you trust him now, the stakes aren't as high. He's not yours and deep down you know he could be lying about some things. When he IS yours you will feel differently.

 

So yeah, it can 'work out' in the end, for you. Just remember that this part, this part of waiting for the phone call and only getting to see him when he's available...it's hard. But it will get a hell of a lot harder and then you will really have to face what you are hoping for.

 

Having come out on the other side as well, years behind the EMR, I do agree with this except for the bolded piece. I do not believe that it is on me just like me leaving my marriage is not on him. I own my piece and he owns his. I did not leave just to be with him. I left because it was the right decision to make with or without him and vice versa.

 

But the EMR was easier at times, there is a great deal of trust and communication needed to stay healthy and happy. For us, we have been in CC since before the EMR ended. We did focus on our foundation and also did IC to work on individual issues.

 

But yes you do realize the hurt that you have caused to others and most people do not go out trying to harm others so the guilt does weigh on you. For me the hardest thing has been that my love for him and vice versa did cause pain to others.

 

 

I think a realist hope is possible but watch the actions not the words and if you go into the EMR with the idea that he is going to leave, have a short timeline in place to allow that process and stick to your requirements. Do not gamble yourself away. And do not expect less than what you expect from any man. There is no reason that a MM, especially one who is planning to divorce, cannot give you what you want and need. Red flag if that is the case.

 

The "best way" the affair is a very short one, the MP(s) leave immediately, and things go from there. In my case, I never told my ex husband, he moved on and is now happily married with a family and we had a very amicable divorce. But I did not overlap for but a few weeks. It wasn't worth the stress and I wasn't seeking out to hurt my ex.

[MourningLosses]

I respect her for being one of the VERY rare people on this board that actually care about the pain they cause a family as oppose to only caring that they get what they want.

 

You don't think it's easy to be big hearted when you won? I know I would have been very understanding of his wife's anger if he had left her. Having been the one who was left though, not so much.

[twinsmom]

Mourning, it's very apparent that you're still hurting. Might I just say as a former OW who was also left in the dust that you're better off? Yep, it took me a hell of a long time to get over who I thought was my "soulmate". I finally realized that he was a passive-aggressive coward. Trust me, you don't WANT the man you thought he was. There was a time when I thought I would be ecstatic if only he would choose me, and I was absolutely devastated when he did not. But now I'm so happy that he didn't. It took a lot of time, but I realized that his character flaws would have made it impossible to have a meaningful relationship with him. I finally decided that I didn't want him anymore, and it felt great! I hope that you soon get to that point.

[nofool4u]

You don't think it's easy to be big hearted when you won?

 

No, I don't. Not for the majority anyway. Most of the people I read on this forum only care about getting "theirs".

 

And I don't consider "understanding" the x-wife's anger as being big hearted.

[SunsetRed]

Thank you for your well written and brutally honest post. I know deep in my gut (and one should always trust their gut) that had I gotten my MM, I'd be disappointed. Even if his divorce had become final, I'd still be taking a back seat to the life he had before. Having been married for 20 years, there'd still be things they'd have to take care of, things I'd never be a part of.