Once a slut, always a slut?

[carhill]

Because of my own experience though, and what many of you have said on here has reinforced that, I would tell young women who want to change to just stop dating. I have no argument with women who are comfortable with their own sex life, but I have known a lot of women who were not. I would say to stop, for a couple of years if need be, but whatever length of time it takes to gain some wisdom and put your priorities in order. Use the time to get your schooling and get into fun activities that don't involve alcohol or dating. Only when you have gained your self respect back should you start dating again and then go carefully b/c old habits can be easy to fall back into.

 

I fervently hope women who feel that way would consider your advice. Though the thread is about promiscuous females, I think the advice applies equally to men.

 

Had I ever met such a woman, I would have gladly accepted her totality and her focus on growing herself. I've known very few women, at any level, platonic to romantic, who have taken such time and given such energy to introspection. I think that's admirable.

 

For both genders, sex can be a path of least resistance, an ancient biological drive which bathes our brains with pleasure hormones and can mitigate or block out all kinds of physical and psychological issues. It's much easier to medicate than deal with the issues directly in such instances.

 

After a break being married, it'll be interesting to see how the 50's crowd handles such things.

[mortensorchid]

As they say, "He who is without sin may cast the first stone". I am not just talking about sex either. How many times have we walked into a situation fully knowing that what we were doing was/is wrong, yet we do it anyway? If you say no, then you're lying. Life is about learning lessons, not about walking around with a holier than thou attitude about things. A "reformed slut"? We all are. I have a sense of humor about my past and things that I have done. Those who do not have a sense of humor about it have deeper issues. Go ahead, I say, make fun of me or whoever else you like, I'm not the only one.

[Feelsgoodman]

As they say, "He who is without sin may cast the first stone". I am not just talking about sex either. How many times have we walked into a situation fully knowing that what we were doing was/is wrong, yet we do it anyway? If you say no, then you're lying. Life is about learning lessons, not about walking around with a holier than thou attitude about things. A "reformed slut"? We all are. I have a sense of humor about my past and things that I have done. Those who do not have a sense of humor about it have deeper issues. Go ahead, I say, make fun of me or whoever else you like, I'm not the only one.

Bullsh*t. First of all, not all women are "reformed sluts". A slut is a woman who has sex with men indiscriminately. I think it's insulting to suggest all women were sluts at some point in their life. This may be your experience but there are women out there who are not like you.

 

Second, "he who is without sin may cast the first stone" is not meant to be a universal excuse for sh*tty behavior. Yes, we are all sinners...but not all to the same degree. Painting a child rapist and a guy who was rude to an old lady once with the same brush is not very helpful.

[ASG]

Bullsh*t. First of all, not all women are "reformed sluts". A slut is a woman who has sex with men indiscriminately. I think it's insulting to suggest all women were sluts at some point in their life. This may be your experience but there are women out there who are not like you.

 

Second, "he who is without sin may cast the first stone" is not meant to be a universal excuse for sh*tty behavior. Yes, we are all sinners...but not all to the same degree. Painting a child rapist and a guy who was rude to an old lady once with the same brush is not very helpful.

 

See, this is where I completely disagree with the whole thing.

 

Because having sex with several people does not equate being indiscriminate, and I actually take offense to that.

 

I have slept with quite a few guys. And I would be considered a slut by most of the people here in this thread and board.

 

Yet I have never been indiscriminate when it comes to who I have sex with. I don't have sex nearly as often as I could, for just that reason. I don't just go out in search of sex or a sex partner. I never do. I never go looking for sex.

 

If a random guy approaches me at a bar, he will get shot down. I actually find that slightly creepy, to be honest. And even if I find someone in my group attractive I don't necessarily jump into bed with him straight away!

(also, I'm very private and discreet and wouldn't want the rest of the group to comment on whether I was sleeping with him or not. It's none of their business)

 

I am just not constrained by the religious aspect of having to be in a commited relationship to have sex with someone I fancy. (and before anyone argues, yes, it is a religious thing. You might not be religious, but thruth is our society was, and still is, ruled by religion and most of our perceptions about sex stem from that control, which is why a man with a past isn't as frowned upon as a woman, as they were supposed to still be virgins by the time they married, whereas men weren't)

 

I also find it slightly amusing how people think they will *know* I'm a "slut" and imediately dismiss me as relationship material. If I don't tell (and trust me, after reading this thread, I sure won't!) you will have no way of knowing. Because, as you say, men may talk. But I don't think any of the guys I've slept with even *KNOW* each other (apart from a small group of guys I'd like to erase, from when I was 15 and thought that people would like me if I had sex with them).

[Feelsgoodman]

See, this is where I completely disagree with the whole thing.

 

Because having sex with several people does not equate being indiscriminate, and I actually take offense to that.

I never said it does. Being a slut implies both quantity AND low quality. I guess if you somehow manage have sex with a thousand totally awesome guys, good for you.

 

The reality is that the vast majority of women who sleep with many men primarily sleep with low quality men. That, I would suggest, is the real reason men dislike sluts. Who wants a woman who's willing spread her legs for just about anybody? Being with a woman like that makes you feel dirty.

[carhill]

Presuming the woman isn't a rapidly serial monogamist, and seeks men of similar mindset, then it is a 'marriage' of equals, a promiscuous man and promiscuous woman, both of whom desire and enjoy casual sex outside of relationships. That doesn't preclude them from having healthy relationships.

 

After having dated and mated with such women, overall, I haven't found the dynamic attractive, in retrospect, and have chosen a different path. I'm sure the women who have historically found aspects of myself, like, for example baldness, unattractive, haven't given it a second thought. They didn't like what they saw and moved on. For myself, as one data point, promiscuity, whether current or historical, is the same thing. Unattractive. It's not 'bad' or 'wrong'. There are plenty of men who, as I once did, find a promiscuous person attractive, and I doubt they're all 'low quality'. People like what they like and are attracted to what they're attracted to.

[John Michael Kane]

I never said it does. Being a slut implies both quantity AND low quality. I guess if you somehow manage have sex with a thousand totally awesome guys, good for you.

 

The reality is that the vast majority of women who sleep with many men primarily sleep with low quality men. That, I would suggest, is the real reason men dislike sluts. Who wants a woman who's willing spread her legs for just about anybody? Being with a woman like that makes you feel dirty.

 

And in no way is that a good role model.

[stepka]

Bullsh*t. First of all, not all women are "reformed sluts". A slut is a woman who has sex with men indiscriminately. I think it's insulting to suggest all women were sluts at some point in their life. This may be your experience but there are women out there who are not like you.

 

Second, "he who is without sin may cast the first stone" is not meant to be a universal excuse for sh*tty behavior. Yes, we are all sinners...but not all to the same degree. Painting a child rapist and a guy who was rude to an old lady once with the same brush is not very helpful.

 

I never thought she labeled all women as being sluts. I think she meant that all people have done things that they wish they hadn't. Also the "he who is without sin. . ." refers to the fact that we're all on our own journey and it's not up to us to determine what's best for another person or to judge their sin.(Some of you may be aware that the crowd was getting ready to stone a slut when He said this.)

 

However, it's perfectly appropriate to look at someone's life and determine that they're too out of control to be a good risk as a partner for us. Believe me guys, I don't think any of us women had a hard time seeing your point on that--we all know some slutty women who have 5 babies by 5 different daddies but don't take care of them, and we don't want to see our sons and brothers married to such kinds of gals.

 

And, here's the hard part--it's not for us to compare sins and say that the child rapist is a worse sinner--if you look at different times and cultures this makes sense because at one time child rape may have been a lesser sin than turning away a stranger who needed his hospitality. Lot offered up his daughters to be raped rather than offering his guests for the same purpose, and it's quite shocking to us now, but things were seen differently in those days. That is not to say that I think that child raping is ok--I think it's horrible, and I can't help but judge it, but I know all the same that it's not my job to rank sins. There, that's as religious as I'll get on this thread.

[Woggle]

Everybody makes mistakes but some people have not learned a damn thing from them. You see people in their 30s and 40s still making the same mistakes that they did in their early 20s. I don't judge a woman for enjoying sex or believe that they should be held to different standards as men but when you have a woman who has seen and done everything with every somewhat attractive jerk she meets then all of a sudden she wants to try a nice guy for a change a smart man will run. I have seen countless men get chewed up and spit out trying to be a knight in shining armor for a woman like this.

[mr.dream merchant]

My friend and I talked about this in the gym tonight. He asked me would I consider a woman slutty if she had say 15 guys she was sexually active with by the age of 22-25. I said yes. He asked what if these 15 guys were all relationships that she thought were genuine but most turned out to be guys telling her what she wants to hear to get in her pants, would I then consider her a slut? I answered yes. He asked why to which I said that even though these men were potential serious relationships...the sheer number of prospects ALONE that she slept with, would be enough to put me off. I also told him that she's got to be awfully naive to have slept with 15 guys, and that number being that she thought these guys would turn out to be boyfriends.

[Desensitized]

Everybody makes mistakes but some people have not learned a damn thing from them. You see people in their 30s and 40s still making the same mistakes that they did in their early 20s. I don't judge a woman for enjoying sex or believe that they should be held to different standards as men but when you have a woman who has seen and done everything with every somewhat attractive jerk she meets then all of a sudden she wants to try a nice guy for a change a smart man will run. I have seen countless men get chewed up and spit out trying to be a knight in shining armor for a woman like this.

 

I'm trying to refrain from using the term "slut", but it's pretty difficult. Anyway, my ex was very promiscuous prior to us dating; it can be a huge problem if the guy is like me. It's just, that, if the person has a lot of notches under their belt, regardless of it being a woman or man, the person tends to feel inadequate (at least I do). It's not that I'm not confident, have self-esteem issues, or am intimidated by the previous guys' cock - that's not it at all! I was engaged to a beautiful girl who had everything I was looking for in a lifetime partner, but her previous conquests were just too much for me. I tried being the "knight in shining armor", but I feel like I was treated like the other guys were being treated when they were with her.

 

Like the saying goes, why buy the cow when the milk is free? The person I want to spend the rest of my life with doesn't spread her legs for just anyone, and by this, you can judge that she is of fine quality. People need to learn to control themselves. Yes, we all like sex, but it doesn't mean that we should go around screwing everything we see. I mean, I guess you could, but don't come crying about it on the internet when you realize what a fool you were. Yeah, people can change, but sometimes even the good doesn't outweigh the bad - you just have to learn to live with the consequences of whatever happens - be it good or bad. If the person you're with accepts you for you, then so be it. Be glad you found someone that is willing to overlook that.

 

*Also, I forgot to add, Woggle. If they keep making those same "mistakes", then they're obviously not mistakes. Those are the choices they choose to make, so let them.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Desensitized

[Sanman]

My friend and I talked about this in the gym tonight. He asked me would I consider a woman slutty if she had say 15 guys she was sexually active with by the age of 22-25. I said yes. He asked what if these 15 guys were all relationships that she thought were genuine but most turned out to be guys telling her what she wants to hear to get in her pants, would I then consider her a slut? I answered yes. He asked why to which I said that even though these men were potential serious relationships...the sheer number of prospects ALONE that she slept with, would be enough to put me off. I also told him that she's got to be awfully naive to have slept with 15 guys, and that number being that she thought these guys would turn out to be boyfriends.

 

I think this is actually a good point. Even if you may not label a serial monogamist as promiscuous, you must ask yourself the question what is this person doing to have not found a functional long term relationship after 15,20,30,40? attempts at it. I mean I can understand few men (or women), but surely you have come across a few good prospects after that number of partners. What are you learning (or not learning) from these relationships?

 

To those that mention not telling the other person. That is certainly an option. However, if this becomes an ltr, you have friends. I have yet to be in a relationship of longer than 3 months where a friend has not let something slip that should not have (even if I knew already). This is especially true when alcohol is involved. After a certain number of names are mentioned over time, we will get curious and it will not end well.

 

I do think that Stepka's advice about taking time for yourself is wise after any break up.

[P&R]

The answer to this thread is no. I have met many women who were loose when they were younger. They would get into bed with anyone with a pulse. Now they enjoy healthy monogamus marriages and LTRs.

[Mrlonelyone]

As it is known here I am a bigendered transgendered person and have lived part of my life as a woman. To be honest even living as a man I am feminine yet.... I have manged to have a healthy ammout of sex with men and women.

 

There was a time when I would have sex with whomever I felt like. I had the power to seduce people of any gender, almost at will. I had the curves to make a man forget I had a P*nis and the C*ck to make a woman forget I had the curves.

 

Now I haven't had sex in about three years and I'm ok with that. Lack of sex is not why I am lonely.

 

Here are my observations:

 

Men are in general easier than women, even easy women.

Women who were once easy, can reform.... but like a drug or candy addict they are more likely to relapse. (myself not excluded).

 

 

As for what Sanskrit had to say.

 

The real problem with what the women he's describing are doing isn't that they are having sex with lots of men it's that they are being decitful and deceptive. They are telling one guy he's the only one, he's nice, and good and reliable and they want to take it slow.... Then they are humping another guy behind the back of the guy they call "boyfriend". That they do both of the above is the problem.

 

Women (and men) who are totally honest about not wanting a relationship and who do not make someone think they do are not a problem. Women (and men) who will have a relationship with one person while cheating with other people are ... CHEATERS. These men just don't want to be cheated on. There is no reason for any women to get defensive about that. Likewise a woman should steer clear of players for the same reasons.

 

I have heard the word player used in a negative way. A player may be what men want to be but it's not who women really want to have a LTR with so in that sense it's just as negative.

 

If there is a difference it is that women are judged by their relationship status in a way that men jus aren't. A man without an LTR at least when he's young suffers no consequences. (latter in life it's a different story).

[stepka]

Here are my observations:

 

Men are in general easier than women, even easy women.

Women who were once easy, can reform.... but like a drug or candy addict they are more likely to relapse. (myself not excluded). [

 

Great perspective! I do agree that a person is likelier to relapse when they've already put themself out there, but I've found that the relapse is more likely to happen between relationships rather than during one, unless the relationship is just over, and she doesn't want to go through the work of breaking up, so she cheats and forces the man to do it. Skanky behavior, but yeah I've seen it. And some people just don't ever want to be alone so they get their next relationship lined up before the last one is over, but I'm not sure that this is exactly slut behavior--even those who've had many fewer lovers can do this. It's not right though and a woman who has a history of doing this should probably trouble you guys more.

 

I got into a convo with a group of women yesterday and roughly half admitted to having had "their fun" at some point in their life, but all agreed that once they'd been in love with someone, that was no longer attractive. One of the women did admit to having an affair during her 24 year marriage, but it's been a stormy one and through much of it she lost respect for him b/c he was out of work for a great deal of the time and he refused to look for a job. Not saying that's an excuse, but when a woman loses respect for a man, I think she's probably much likelier to cheat, whether she has a history or not. I had a bf once who wouldn't get a job--we lived together and he ate off my table for a few months before I broke it off--I didn't cheat on him but I had zero respect for him when it was all over.

[Mrlonelyone]

You lost me at "between relationships".

 

As other men have pointed out here there is something womens minds do that the biological male brain does not.... justify after the fact.

 

Men may justify doing something they know deep down is wrong before they do it... i.e. Write a mainfesto or a book about why Germany needs more Liebensraum. :|

 

A woman who is a relapsing slut will be married to a guy then cheat cheat cheat cheat on him... thinking everything is fine. Then when she get's caught "it wasn't a real marriage (relationship) anyway." Women do this, biological males, even IMO ones who are fully transsexual and live and mostly think as females don't do that. Maybe our culture teaches little girls such nonsense will be forgiven?

[Desensitized]

You lost me at "between relationships".

 

As other men have pointed out here there is something womens minds do that the biological male brain does not.... justify after the fact.

 

Men may justify doing something they know deep down is wrong before they do it... i.e. Write a mainfesto or a book about why Germany needs more Liebensraum. :|

 

A woman who is a relapsing slut will be married to a guy then cheat cheat cheat cheat on him... thinking everything is fine. Then when she get's caught "it wasn't a real marriage (relationship) anyway." Women do this, biological males, even IMO ones who are fully transsexual and live and mostly think as females don't do that. Maybe our culture teaches little girls such nonsense will be forgiven?

 

^^^^This^^^^

[sally4sara]

You lost me at "between relationships".

 

As other men have pointed out here there is something womens minds do that the biological male brain does not.... justify after the fact.

 

Men may justify doing something they know deep down is wrong before they do it... i.e. Write a mainfesto or a book about why Germany needs more Liebensraum. :|

 

A woman who is a relapsing slut will be married to a guy then cheat cheat cheat cheat on him... thinking everything is fine. Then when she get's caught "it wasn't a real marriage (relationship) anyway." Women do this, biological males, even IMO ones who are fully transsexual and live and mostly think as females don't do that. Maybe our culture teaches little girls such nonsense will be forgiven?

 

I was agreeing with you till this part. That's hooey and I've seen it in action.

"I was drunk" was my ex husband's favorite justification AFTER THE FACT for pretty much anything he did that he knew well enough to try to prevent me from discovering. And upon discovery, even more poured in.

 

"we got into an argument and I thought we would be separating (even though neither of us said that in the argument) so it wasn't cheating. Not really anyway!"

"maybe if you didn't get on me for drinking so much I wouldn't think about drinking so much and then maybe I wouldn't have gotten in that wreck"

 

I just love when one group of people thinks they are the only ones who can/can't do something without seeing their words for the ego stroking they are really doing. This whole thread is full of specious arguments but very little truth or raw self examination.

 

"I do this but its okay if I do it because X Y and Z. Its only a problem if this other group of people do it" How is this NOT justification enacted AFTER the fact?

[thatone]

The answer to this thread is no. I have met many women who were loose when they were younger. They would get into bed with anyone with a pulse. Now they enjoy healthy monogamus marriages and LTRs.

 

until they have children and get back in shape post-children, then they can go back to their old habits.

[ASG]

until they have children and get back in shape post-children, then they can go back to their old habits.

 

Why? Why would they? It makes no sense!

[thatone]

Why? Why would they? It makes no sense!

 

because they can, it makes all the sense in the world. the only thing that changed them was the urge to have children. once the children are there and the man who gave them the children is on the hook for paying for the kids, they can go back to their old lifestyle whenever they want.

[TheLawmaker]

I don't get it. Why would a woman go back to an unhealthy lifestyle, if she has support and health?

[Sanman]

I got into a convo with a group of women yesterday and roughly half admitted to having had "their fun" at some point in their life, but all agreed that once they'd been in love with someone, that was no longer attractive. One of the women did admit to having an affair during her 24 year marriage, but it's been a stormy one and through much of it she lost respect for him b/c he was out of work for a great deal of the time and he refused to look for a job. Not saying that's an excuse, but when a woman loses respect for a man, I think she's probably much likelier to cheat, whether she has a history or not. I had a bf once who wouldn't get a job--we lived together and he ate off my table for a few months before I broke it off--I didn't cheat on him but I had zero respect for him when it was all over.

 

See every relationship goes through rough patches over the long term. At some point this friend made the decision to go back to what I assume are old and familiar ways rather than trying to fix this marriage. It was what she was comfortable doing rather than confronting the situation earlier and working to through these issues. Now, I am not excusing her husband for his contributions to this (whatever they were). However, it is what you choose to do in the hard times that counts. Not when everything is easy. i contrast this to the 'need vs want' thread where one poster relayed the story of loving her husband despite physical flaws and (to her) an imperfect passive/indoor lifestyle. However, she was rewarded through his loving support for her when she battled cancer. Whether I lose my job or struggle with cancer, I hope I have the type of spouse that supports me rather than cheats on me.

[stepka]

You lost me at "between relationships".

 

As other men have pointed out here there is something womens minds do that the biological male brain does not.... justify after the fact.

 

Men may justify doing something they know deep down is wrong before they do it... i.e. Write a mainfesto or a book about why Germany needs more Liebensraum. :|

 

A woman who is a relapsing slut will be married to a guy then cheat cheat cheat cheat on him... thinking everything is fine. Then when she get's caught "it wasn't a real marriage (relationship) anyway." Women do this, biological males, even IMO ones who are fully transsexual and live and mostly think as females don't do that. Maybe our culture teaches little girls such nonsense will be forgiven?

 

Lost you at "between relationships"? That means she has broken up with a man but has not gotten into another one yet. I'd say over 90% of the posters on this dating site are between relationships so it shouldn't be too hard to imagine. Sometimes people do unhealthy stuff when they have just broken up with a lover or gotten out of a marriage.

 

If a relapsing slut is cheat, cheat, cheat, cheating on a marriage, then the marriage was over before she started cheating on him. You never heard me argue that this was justifiable behavior. If she has totally lost respect for him then she should break up and move on and be a slut on her own time, not his.

 

As for justifying something after the fact--well I must admit that I'm confused by that. I think men and women all attempt to justify their bad behavior. It's something I learned in freshman sociology--that no one does anything that they can't justify, no matter how poor their reasoning might be. Whether they manage to justify it before or after the dirty deed is immaterial--either way they did something wrong and they attempted to justify it. Maybe justifying after the fact just indicates poor planning or needing time to process the whole situation later--I don't know b/c I can't really imagine what you're talking about. As for society teaching little girls that they'll be forgiven later? Not sure there either. If I was under any such impression it's certainly gone now--from here it seems that murderers would be forgiven more quickly than "happy" women, if enough time has managed to pass by.

 

And thatone, just because a woman can go back to her old habits doesn't mean that she does. You keep telling me that I'm incapable of change and yet I know that I am. Funny how that works. You can accuse me of lying on here, but I say to you that if I had felt the need to lie, why would I have brought this up in the first place and admitted on a public forum to my past indiscretions? Lawmaker is right--why would we want to go back to something that made us so miserable that we felt the need to change?

[stepka]

Here's another thought for y'all, men and women. America is full of obese people--we have the highest rate of obesity in the world. The number of overweight people greatly outnumbers the number of normal weight people to the point that normal weight people often get accused of being anorexic. But, the interesting thing is that true gluttony is actually a rare condition. Most of us eat too much because we can. It's there all around us, constantly calling to us to partake of the feast, and we're always trying to diet. Well promiscuity is similar in many ways. A small percentage women are true sluts. The greater number of women who have behaved in a loose manner in the past did so because it was just too easy to be easy and like big burgers advertised on TV, they were fed the message that they could bang like men. They discovered it to be a lie and suffered from emotional damage from trying to be like men. But, once you've left that behind, you're not eager to return to it.