Once a slut, always a slut?

[nordic]

You seem to be confused. You seem to think that I'm defending women who cheat on their spouse. I have never, not in one single post, defended such a thing. When you take vows, you take vows and you stay faithful. When the woman cheats, I also don't think it's fair that she can take the kids and move in with Romeo while the poor schmuck at home who was working 2 jobs has to foot the bill. I know these things happen and I do not defend them.

 

The original intent of the post was to point out that many women go through a fun phase and then realize that it's not good for them and they pull it in and stop being so indiscriminating, but (some, all?) men will hold that against them forever. If these women were not having ONS, you guys wouldn't be either, so stop partaking and creating your own problems is all. Stop being hypocrites. You also can't have your cake and eat it too, but you seem to think we're the only group that is trying to get away with anything. We're not--we've all benefitted from this, but we've also all suffered for it. We all love sex--ladies too--you're not the only horny ones. We're all in the same boat.

 

As for you guys who are saying that men hate it when women cheat for evolutionary reasons b/c no man wants to raise another man's child--well women have evolutionary reasons for hating it when men cheat too. Back in the bad old days, if a man walked away from his wife and family to chase after another woman, the family was at real risk of starving, so there are strong reasons why the monogamous marriage unit has most often been favored throughout the world.

 

i cant see how this is hypocritical.

 

if a man falls in love with a girl, he doesnt want her to have been ****ed by a bunch of men in one night stands. exactly how is that hypocritical?

[nordic]

I think that women who have been "slutty" (jeez...what a word:o) will have to expect that there are men who just wouldn't want to be with them because of their history-a consequence of past actions. Women should also not be in a relationship with men who have been with numerous women-if that is something they think is indicative of future behavior.

 

thank you. finally a voice of reason.

 

now. for this to work, women can not lie about their history though, but give that information up. good luck with that.

[stepka]

i said a way to keep a relationship with a slut, or a woman who does not feel sexually exclusive to you, is to keep the relationship non-exclusive with her.

 

OK, so what I read is: you had a non-exclusive relationship with this last woman, and it was agreed from the beginning b/c you had questioned her about her past and she was honest, or mostly so. So you told her that she was damaged goods and you could never get into a serious relationship with her but would be glad to bang her non-exclusively. She agreed. But then you developed feelings for her and she did for you, so you started in grilling her about her past history. Again. Though after the NE agreement, even her present history wouldn't have been any of your business. At this point she's probably afraid of you so she tells as little as possible, maybe starts lying. You rough her up a little or a lot--for all we know you beat the crap out of her b/c it seems like you hedged on that a bit. Then you kicked her out the door. Tell me if I got any of the details wrong.

 

You're all about honesty here--from her. But you apparently were not honest, b/c you changed the rules in the middle of the game. Now she's heartbroken over something she absolutely cannot change and you're raging like a bull, but I guess you're made that way, so my advice is to stay away from women. Far away. You're way too scary for me. I hope you realize that you come off sounding like Conan the Barbarian.

[nordic]

I agree with that, but not everyone is so wise at all points in their life. Some have to learn the hard way.

 

and some never learn, ever. we call these women really dedicated sluts:-)

[nordic]

And some never learn at all.

 

i wrote the same comment as you without reading yours.

 

maybe you are not that bad:-)

[nordic]

OK, so what I read is: you had a non-exclusive relationship with this last woman, and it was agreed from the beginning b/c you had questioned her about her past and she was honest, or mostly so. So you told her that she was damaged goods and you could never get into a serious relationship with her but would be glad to bang her non-exclusively. She agreed. But then you developed feelings for her and she did for you, so you started in grilling her about her past history. Again. Though after the NE agreement, even her present history wouldn't have been any of your business. At this point she's probably afraid of you so she tells as little as possible, maybe starts lying. You rough her up a little or a lot--for all we know you beat the crap out of her b/c it seems like you hedged on that a bit. Then you kicked her out the door. Tell me if I got any of the details wrong.

 

You're all about honesty here--from her. But you apparently were not honest, b/c you changed the rules in the middle of the game. Now she's heartbroken over something she absolutely cannot change and you're raging like a bull, but I guess you're made that way, so my advice is to stay away from women. Far away. You're way too scary for me. I hope you realize that you come off sounding like Conan the Barbarian.

 

yeah, pretty much spot on through the first half of your first paragraph. this is what happened. usually girls go away after a while, after you live like this with them, but she didnt. i did not really go looking for this.

 

no, i did not kick her out. she is still here. she lied for two reasons. first just generic the way women do, but i let it go first time coz i didnt care. second time, she did get scared, and thats why she lied most likely, and this time i really needed to know.

 

she is not heartbroken one bit. she is sleeping next room, and a happy girl it seems. fell asleep on my chest while i stroked her upper arm with my fingertips for 15 minutes with that weightless feeling in my body. she might be happier than you are at the moment. i like to think so:) the world is not as black and white as you think.

 

the history is still an issue though. it will come up again. and most likely when we least need it in our lives. but she says she can deal, and she feels its worth it. for me. i find her amazing. for me, she is perfect i think. if she didnt have that history, i would most likely marry her.

 

and stop with the "rules in the middle of the game", and that crap. its not a game, and nobody is ever gonna be happy like that. there are no rules, and morals suck if you want to be happy and in love.

 

lesson from this might be that as a woman, try not to be a slut and then go out and try and catch a man for a ltr. she and me wish she never did these things. well i know i wish that. she says she does, but who knows? women lie:)

[abouttoloseit]

I pulled these quotes off of another thread b/c I think this topic needs its own thread. Guys. We need to talk. Blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah....

 

....blah blah blah blah blah....Yes, we women love sex, but from these posts it's obvious to me that the old double standard is still alive and well. I'm here to tell you that there is no good girl/bad girl--simply a lot of women confused.

 

Answered your own question.

 

 

[Desensitized]

there are no rules, and morals suck if you want to be happy and in love.

I was engaged to a woman who had a very extensive sexual history. She slept with 30 guys prior to us dating, and frankly, it broke my heart. I tried getting over her history because I loved her so much, but I simply couldn't. That and the fact that she has BPD which caused a lot of complications. Perhaps you're right about morals sucking if you want to be "happy" and "in-love", but I like to think that I am being true to myself by not altering my morals for anybody - maybe altering my morals slightly, but not completely. Now, I know some people may give me a lot of grief for this, but I simply couldn't get over her history. Maybe it's a male ego thing or whatever, but I was simply disgusted by her past. I learned from my mistakes, and I am definitely not going to try and fall in-love with a girl like that.

[stepka]

and stop with the "rules in the middle of the game", and that crap. its not a game, and nobody is ever gonna be happy like that. there are no rules, and morals suck if you want to be happy and in love.

 

You did change the rules in the middle of the game because you told her you'd be with her as long as she was willing to be in a non-exclusive relationship. So if you're in a NE relationship, you really can't be worrying about what she did in the past or the present for that matter, but you insist on berating and beating her about it anyway. And this isn't morals--your morals are your business and hers are hers and you've had more ONS than she has, I'll bet. Besides, the purpose of morals is to teach us how to treat one another--it's the whole of the law and if you get so hung up on something that someone did in the past that you abuse her, then it's you with the moral problem, not her.

[stepka]

only objection to G would be that we are just more into younger women. i am sure dating a 80 year old would be even safer, when it comes fidelity. any takers on that one here?

 

And I am well aware that men prefer younger women. You can do what you want, but just be aware that they're more likely to cheat. As for 80 yo--are you 80? I mentioned something about women your own age. And the younger ones are a lot more likely to be impatient when you're trying to turn Sweet Willie into Big Bad Bill.

[stepka]

Answered your own question.

 

 

I've answered my own question for the last 29 pages but you guys ain't buying it. Whatever--I doubt I'll be dating any one of you. I may just pull my charms, and they are considerable, out of the dating pool altogether, b/c I am guilty of a few indiscretions though they happened over 30 years ago. But apparently men can't handle it no matter how long ago it was.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Don't fear, Stepka. There are plenty of men, good ones, who consider a person for who she or he is today.

[Desensitized]

I've answered my own question for the last 29 pages but you guys ain't buying it. Whatever--I doubt I'll be dating any one of you. I may just pull my charms, and they are considerable, out of the dating pool altogether, b/c I am guilty of a few indiscretions though they happened over 30 years ago. But apparently men can't handle it no matter how long ago it was.

 

Only reason it really didn't truly work out with my ex was because she made no effort to get rid of her past. She kept pictures, trinkets, and other things that drove me literally insane. I tried on my part, but she just wasn't doing her part. Like I said, I am pretty flexible with my morals, but I won't alter them completely. My ex slept with 30 guys before me, and yet, I was still trying to make it work with her. She was the one that couldn't let go of it all... all I wanted was for it to just be me and her. the way it should've been - that's all.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Desensitized

[betterdeal]

I've answered my own question for the last 29 pages but you guys ain't buying it. Whatever--I doubt I'll be dating any one of you. I may just pull my charms, and they are considerable, out of the dating pool altogether, b/c I am guilty of a few indiscretions though they happened over 30 years ago. But apparently men can't handle it no matter how long ago it was.

 

Now there's another broad brush stroke akin to other the Crayola kids that have been on this thread.

 

The last woman I was close to thought I was put off her by her past. I wasn't. I was put off by her present.

 

The constant comparisons to her big love (who killed himself at the end of their relationship), the Beyonce, "if you liked it you should have put a ring on it" ringtone she had for her most recent ex, the use of sex as a weapon, the threats to pull another man out of the bag if I didn't jump as high as she'd like, the predilection for domestic violence, the preference for cum in her face to kissing, the selective amnesia, the myriad other men, the capricious whims, the see-through attempts at deceit, the jealously, the double standards, the thievery, the dating a colleagues husband, the being double dated by her having another man "coincidentally" bump into us at the cinema, the idolising a father who wanted his daughters to be porn stars, and the overall attitude of victimhood whilst being a complete cunt to everyone around her is what I didn't like.

 

That she was incredibly sensitive and likely to be hospitalised by her own actions (suicide, substance abuse, psychosis) - again - by anything that might have shaken her too much (such as the truth) meant I felt it impossible to say anything critical.

 

When three of your exes have ended up clinically insane, one dead, one in a ward for the criminally insane, one a bit of both (me), maybe there's something you can change about yourself to avoid that outcome again.

 

Yes, I am a bit sensitive to sweeping generalisations about men not liking women's pasts. Can you blame me?

Edited June 6, 2011 by betterdeal

[Star Gazer]

Don't fear, Stepka. There are plenty of men, good ones, who consider a person for who she or he is today.

 

I agree with this, and will go one step farther.

 

Assuming a woman carries herself as a lady, one to be respected, today, then her past won't matter to most men.

 

I think most men will be cautious/skittish about dating a woman with a past, when how she behaves and carries herself today, implies that she still might be that bad girl... if you know what I'm sayin'.

[lino]

If the rules have changed, at least in this case, the women were the ones who changed them. If a woman wants to have sex with whoever she wants to, she can. But then, she should also own her decisions, not make excuses for them.

 

This pretty much sums it up.

Women and men can f*ck around all they want but they need to be accountable for their actions and take whatever consequences occur as a result on the chin.

 

 

Also, a previously very promiscuous guy or girl who has completely reformed and changed their ways is very, very rare. From what I've seen, they never really change.

 

Besides, even if they did completely change, i still wouldn't want to be with a woman that's had 50 knobs in her!

[Woggle]

Now there's another broad brush stroke akin to other the Crayola kids that have been on this thread.

 

The last woman I was close to thought I was put off her by her past. I wasn't. I was put off by her present.

 

The constant comparisons to her big love (who killed himself at the end of their relationship), the Beyonce, "if you liked it you should have put a ring on it" ringtone she had for her most recent ex, the use of sex as a weapon, the threats to pull another man out of the bag if I didn't jump as high as she'd like, the predilection for domestic violence, the preference for cum in her face to kissing, the selective amnesia, the myriad other men, the capricious whims, the see-through attempts at deceit, the jealously, the double standards, the thievery, the dating a colleagues husband, the being double dated by her having another man "coincidentally" bump into us at the cinema, the idolising a father who wanted his daughters to be porn stars, and the overall attitude of victimhood whilst being a complete cunt to everyone around her is what I didn't like.

 

That she was incredibly sensitive and likely to be hospitalised by her own actions (suicide, substance abuse, psychosis) - again - by anything that might have shaken her too much (such as the truth) meant I felt it impossible to say anything critical.

 

When three of your exes have ended up clinically insane, one dead, one in a ward for the criminally insane, one a bit of both (me), maybe there's something you can change about yourself to avoid that outcome again.

 

Yes, I am a bit sensitive to sweeping generalisations about men not liking women's pasts. Can you blame me?

 

These are a whole different set of issues that go way beyond simply liking sex. You are certainly better off without her.

[nordic]

I was engaged to a woman who had a very extensive sexual history. She slept with 30 guys prior to us dating, and frankly, it broke my heart. I tried getting over her history because I loved her so much, but I simply couldn't. That and the fact that she has BPD which caused a lot of complications. Perhaps you're right about morals sucking if you want to be "happy" and "in-love", but I like to think that I am being true to myself by not altering my morals for anybody - maybe altering my morals slightly, but not completely. Now, I know some people may give me a lot of grief for this, but I simply couldn't get over her history. Maybe it's a male ego thing or whatever, but I was simply disgusted by her past. I learned from my mistakes, and I am definitely not going to try and fall in-love with a girl like that.

 

not what i meant.

 

and i would never say that "get over it", those people who say that are idiots or women. women dont have these emotions so they dont get it.

 

 

listen carefully to this, so you get this part.

you cant change your morals, and get over this. for a very simple reason. it has nothing to do with morals. you are experiencing a powerfully raw very male instinctive emotion. it never go away, and you can not change it.

 

yes, this is exactly why men stay away from sluts. everywhere in the whole world. just get smart and listen to men, not women regarding this issue. have fun with sluts, but dont fall in love, just have sex with them, and find yourself a wife that feels sexually exclusive to you.

 

dont listen to people saying this is a moral issue, its not. its male instinct. learn to live with it, or you will just never be happy, and then you will make other people around you miserable as well.

[nordic]

You did change the rules in the middle of the game because you told her you'd be with her as long as she was willing to be in a non-exclusive relationship. So if you're in a NE relationship, you really can't be worrying about what she did in the past or the present for that matter, but you insist on berating and beating her about it anyway. And this isn't morals--your morals are your business and hers are hers and you've had more ONS than she has, I'll bet. Besides, the purpose of morals is to teach us how to treat one another--it's the whole of the law and if you get so hung up on something that someone did in the past that you abuse her, then it's you with the moral problem, not her.

 

again. you are woman, thats why you turn to moral regarding this. sorry, it just has nothing to do with it.

 

i dont think morals have anything to do with our sexuality at all in fact. i think that society and its rules also effect us less than society would it would.

 

bottom line. if you want to be happy. dont get locked into thinking in terms of "rules" and "games". that is not the route to happiness.

[nordic]

And I am well aware that men prefer younger women. You can do what you want, but just be aware that they're more likely to cheat. As for 80 yo--are you 80? I mentioned something about women your own age. And the younger ones are a lot more likely to be impatient when you're trying to turn Sweet Willie into Big Bad Bill.

 

i just took your argument a bit further. if you are really scared of getting your car stolen, getting a really crappy one without an engine will do the trick. only caveat is if you also like to drive.

 

women dont cheat if you choose the right girl and explain things to them.

[betterdeal]

These are a whole different set of issues that go way beyond simply liking sex. You are certainly better off without her.

 

Thanks, that is what I was trying to demonstrate!

[nordic]

I've answered my own question for the last 29 pages but you guys ain't buying it. Whatever--I doubt I'll be dating any one of you. I may just pull my charms, and they are considerable, out of the dating pool altogether, b/c I am guilty of a few indiscretions though they happened over 30 years ago. But apparently men can't handle it no matter how long ago it was.

 

we can handle it. just make yourself sexually available again, we will handle it just fine. but being a woman you will not be happy with that, but secretly aiming for a relationship. thats something different for us. this you never understand.

 

plus, if it was 30 years ago, unless you started very very early, you are pretty much out of scope for most men anyway, also sexually. we go for fertile women, even though we avoid getting them preggers. go figure:)

[nordic]

Don't fear, Stepka. There are plenty of men, good ones, who consider a person for who she or he is today.

 

there is always a reformed slut, worried about her prospect popping up giving advice on how men work:)

 

ok, lets see. hands up all men here who wish that their wives were real sluts and had anal sex with at 10 men whose name they dont know before them. see any hands?

[nordic]

Only reason it really didn't truly work out with my ex was because she made no effort to get rid of her past. She kept pictures, trinkets, and other things that drove me literally insane. I tried on my part, but she just wasn't doing her part. Like I said, I am pretty flexible with my morals, but I won't alter them completely. My ex slept with 30 guys before me, and yet, I was still trying to make it work with her. She was the one that couldn't let go of it all... all I wanted was for it to just be me and her. the way it should've been - that's all.

 

this is not true.

 

you need to understand who you are. we tend to rationalize our emotions in way so they fit into the society. you hated the fact that she was lying under 30 other men being ****ed and moaning pretty much the sam eway she did with you, when you were having sex with her.

 

we all hate that. any attempt to say that its really somethign else, like she did this or that when with me, is just not correct. there was no way she could have behaved that would have made you forget about this, other than lie from outset in such a convincing way, that you would never have known.

[betterdeal]

dont listen to people saying this is a moral issue, its not. its male instinct. learn to live with it, or you will just never be happy, and then you will make other people around you miserable as well.

 

You're not very good at taking your own advice, are you? You're unhappily in love with a slut. I think you're afraid that if you let up on the vigilance she'll stray, and your inquisitions and violence are a manifestation of the strain this is putting you through.

 

You talk about "male instinct". The sort of male instinct in fairy tales, that people like Jack Bauer, Joseph Stalin and Charles Manson are good examples of.

 

I don't know if your girlfriend will stray. Your intuition may be completely out of kilter just like your world-view; there may even be an element of a self-fulfilling prophecy in there too. But what is for certain is you are not happy and are heading towards an early grave.

 

If you need to be so alert in order to feel secure in your relationship with her, what's the point of it? It's like playing monopoly at gunpoint. You can negotiate, learn and grow together, if you're strong enough to being vulnerable to being hurt, willing to change your beliefs, outlooks, and behaviour, just a bit at a time, and consider the advice and support of some outsiders whom you can trust, such as a relationship guidance counsellor.

 

Who gives a rats ass what the rest of society does? You came to this site for a reason, and I bet you all the money in my pocket it's because you're unhappy. Follow the Jack Bauer fairy tale if you wish; or look at wiser, more successful men, such as, say, the billions of happy, content, confident nameless "little" men who don't need to be on the world stage to prove themselves.

 

It's up to you, buddy - do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?