"So Special"

[swimmingfreely]

OFF - THE - CHARTS! You are already stashing an arsenal to attack this man you say is great and you 'trust'?!?!? Let me guess, he has an evil W who holds children over his head. You commit a 'crime' with him willingly and you intend to hold that over his head. If near true, he didn't go from pot to fire; he went from pot to the deepest pit of hell! Oh well, he bought his own ticket. Maybe the transport at least serves the lowest quality of beer. He'll get used to it.

 

 

He has no children. Neither me or his W are evil !!

What crime am I commiting ?? I am SINGLE !! I can do as I please.

[OWoman]

I realize you and OWoman and a few others here are HOW

 

Actually, I'm not. I'm very happily married

[OWoman]

is that why youre still here?

 

You're suggesting that reconciled fBSs and fWSs should also not be here? Funny, I didn't see anything on the TOS that said you had to leave once your "issue" was resolved...

[Heart On]

Heart-On, I'm trying to understand. Was your xMM a narcissist? Is that what you're saying?

 

Based on these and many other characteristics and my experience...yes he was.

 

http://www.narcissisticabuse.com/characteristics.html

 

I don't have to be here for anything other than to shed some light from my perspective on some of these situations.I have been in Professional Exploitation Forums,Narcissism Forums,Divorce Forums,etc.....

 

I tend to find them enlightening and I continue to help myself by trying to help others.

 

There will never be justice or 'closure' for my situation thanks to who I was dealing with.

 

Anyone here ever known a MM to voluntarily hold himself accountable for his betrayals and show any remorse or effort to restore lost faith and trust to either party?

 

One thing I know for sure,I won't ever get N-volved with a Narcissist again

now that I know the signs.

 

But when I woke up to the reality of his Personality Disorder....I had to figure out how and why I was so easily blinded by his pathology.

 

For every "ying there is a yang".I am a 'victim' of my own issues no less than he was.

 

I was raised by an Alcoholic N-Mother,who blamed me for being sexually abused as an 8 year old so she didn't have to feel responsible for not protecting me.I was also conditioned to trama bond to abusers,not to mention accept and tolerate abuse well beyond the average person.

 

That had to change.My reaction had to change as I could not control anything that was out of my hands.

 

Codependency allowed me to fall right into his "hands" literally and figuratively,not to mention transference thanks to the vulnerable position I was in as his paying,trusting,very unhappily married client.

 

I am divorced thanks to my confusion about my postion as his client,not his lover.I was honest long before it became sexual,about my feelings for him and I separated.He in turn,omitted all,and continued on as though he had that right,without telling anyone of his choice to exploit both his wife's and my trust.

 

He admitted to me and only me that he "f*cked up" but that was about it.

 

My life was forever altered by this man and while I try not to allow it to define me,it does.

 

I can NOT ever implicitly trust anyone ever again.

 

Oddly enough,to keep me silent,he informed me that he trusted ME implicitly.

 

I didn't OWE HIM SH*T!

 

He knew that but expected it anyways

even as he watched my life shatter thanks to his games.

 

Yes...I was dealing with a Narcissist.

 

No different than the one in the article.

 

And so are ALOT more here than even realized.

[alexandria35]

So you acknowledge this isn't about cheating.. its a story about forming a new relationship with a previously married man. I guess I'm just concerned that you're making it IMPOSSIBLE for a previously married man (or woman) to find a new love in an appropriate way.. in a way that doesn't portray them as evil and manipulative. You're vilifying all previously married people, including those that never cheated, and I don't think that's fair.

 

The article doesn't vilify all previously married people because it isn't refering to all previously married people. It's refering to a certain type of man. That man could be anyone. Married, single or divorced. Many of us have met this type of man. Heart may have found that the article spoke to affairs because when involved with a married man there is a higher possibility that this is exactly the kind of man he is.

[OWoman]

Anyone here ever known a MM to voluntarily hold himself accountable for his betrayals and show any remorse or effort to restore lost faith and trust to either party?

 

Yes. Otherwise I would not have M him.

[Heart On]

The article doesn't vilify all previously married people because it isn't refering to all previously married people. It's refering to a certain type of man. That man could be anyone. Married, single or divorced. Many of us have met this type of man. Heart may have found that the article spoke to affairs because when involved with a married man there is a higher possibility that this is exactly the kind of man he is.

 

Thank YOU for getting it!

 

 

Yes. Otherwise I would not have M him.

 

Good to know some of them actually have a conscience!

 

Count yourself LUCKY Owoman.

 

I assume he made some sort of ammends to his BS too, for betraying her trust and love and thier vows to be with you?

 

What might those ammends have been? I am just curious as to what he could have done for her to make up for his transgressions against her?

Maybe divorcing her was the best thing that ever happened to her.One can hope that's all he needed to do for her to make her happy again.

 

I do realize that you do love your 'xMM'H and are trying to make people see that sometimes,it does work out,sometimes they aren't just con men and sometimes,they have "valid reasons" for cheating,sometimes they don't lie to get attention and sex from outside thier marriages but NEVER leave them and I just want you and anyone here who thinks I am totally against love or happiness or "happy endings" to know that you are rare.

 

I just know based on experience and research about Professional Exploitation...There are NO "happy endings" in massage therapy with a MM who has more N-traits than I could see in the beginning because he hid them behind a mask of deception and seduction.

 

Just as he hides behind his lies and betrayals and continues to con everyone who thinks they know him today.

 

Only he knows just how "wired wrong" he is and will never change no matter how much therapy, as Narcissism is engrained in his very core.

 

And that is why I am more than relieved...he didn't "choose me".

 

He never intended on making a choice because he didn't love either of us and simply went on with "life as planned" as he called his marriage.

 

As IF I wanted someone that selfish and cowardly! lol

 

I'm just sorry I couldn't warn his BS and his other female clients for fear of him hurting me more than he already had.

 

Just know....I am minimizing the damage he caused my life...NOT maximizing it.

[donnamaybe]

The article doesn't vilify all previously married people because it isn't refering to all previously married people. It's refering to a certain type of man. That man could be anyone. Married, single or divorced. Many of us have met this type of man. Heart may have found that the article spoke to affairs because when involved with a married man there is a higher possibility that this is exactly the kind of man he is.

You mean wanting what they want when they wants it, and all others be damned? Yep. Anyone sneaking around behind their spouse's back, especially someone who does it for years and years, is VERY likely to be one of those kinds of people.

[Silly_Girl]

First off,I didn't write what I posted in this thread.I found it years ago when I needed it to wake me up.Just hope it would help others here do the same.

 

Secondly,I am angry.I am angry at MM who hurt OW's and BS's.

 

Thirdly,depending on what you know about professional exploitation,I wouldn't bother to explain the difference between sexual misconduct by a Narcissistic,married Professional and an affair.

 

I have been FREE from his N-sanity for 7 years now.But it all began in 1997 when I walked into his massage office and ended in 2004 when I was forced to move out of state or kill him for throwing me under the bus and leaving me to answer for his lack of Ethics alone.

 

How does this help me?

 

Well,sometimes,it makes me feel as though since I wasn't ALLOWED a voice in his mind,I am going to speak my peace for the rest of my life hoping to warn others,and pay forward all the help I got in getting out and away and open some eyes and help people ask the right questions so they can learn to protect themselves.

 

I realize you and OWoman and a few others here are HOW...but if we took a poll....I wonder what the % would be of UHOW and for those who come here for support to GET out vs.those who come here to promote Adultery.

 

I support getting far away from men who sit on fences and use women and manipulate them and who lack empathy and conscience.

 

Sorry if that doesn't resonate in your situation.

 

There are plenty of women here who might benefit from my hard won knowledge and I can say my hope is that by helping others,my pain will not be in vain.

 

Hope that clarifies things for you.

 

Don't worry,I won't be here for long as I don't want to overstay my welcome.I certainly won't accumulate more than 500 posts here!

I do have alot to offer,but not for HOW's.Sorry.

I don't believe settling for sharing a man makes anyone truly happy.

And I also see things from the wifes side better than I ever did when I was N-volved.Maybe it's a way for me to warn BS about thier H's too.

 

None of us deserve to be treated as though we are only an option.

 

I went thru hell and really,had I held him accountable for his egregious acts against me and saw him answer for himself,instead of scapegoat me to save his own A$$....I wouldn't even be here.

 

Nor would he be married or still hold his massage license.

 

He tried to manipulate me into staying silent and that's the last thing I am going to be.

 

Every single part of OT statement I could identify with....but only in hindsight.

 

Heart On, I know you didn't write the OP, I wasn't referring to that when I said you sound angry. And I was NOT suggesting you don't post here, which is how you've translated my post. And neither do I promote adultery (that's a misapprehension that if you don't refer to OW as desperate, broken sad individuals and MM as scum-sucking leeches you are pro-affair, not the case).

 

I'm sorry you went through what you did. I hope things are soon brighter for you.

[Silly_Girl]

is that why youre still here?

 

Yep. How 'bout you?

[Lecturer]

The article doesn't vilify all previously married people because it isn't refering to all previously married people. It's refering to a certain type of man. That man could be anyone. Married, single or divorced. Many of us have met this type of man. Heart may have found that the article spoke to affairs because when involved with a married man there is a higher possibility that this is exactly the kind of man he is.

 

Actually, I'd say its referring to a man.. one single person. People so desperately want to create categories and groups, with identifying characteristics, and then others will read those characteristics and they will feel that it 'fits' a person in their mind. This is flawed reasoning - people are complex with many characteristics, and you can probably fit just about anyone into just about any categories using this method. It's not unlike the way that "psychics" give "readings" to people.. it exploits the same psychological phenomenon of wanting to believe combined with several loose but wide-reaching descriptive factors.

 

I know that HeartOn (and others) are hurt, and the pain means we desperately want to understand things so that we can feel safe again. But there is an overarching coping mechanism being used here that - while I understand it - may not be the most healthy attitude. HeartOn was hurt while with her guy.. but her guy did not HURT her. There is a very important distinction. If we allow ourselves to believe that the other person HURT us, then we make ourselves victims. This is totally a coping mechanism, with pros and cons. But one HUGE con is that we dis-empower ourselves.

 

I think it is far healthier to accept that we let ourselves be hurt, that we aren't victims, that we retain the power to control our own life and wellbeing. Until you can do that, you aren't recovering, you're just coping.

[donnamaybe]

Being able to identify a user is empowering, actually. It gives us knowledge so we can make informed decisions. You know, drop kick the JA before they can adversely affect our lives.

[BB07]

Being able to identify a user is empowering, actually. It gives us knowledge so we can make informed decisions. You know, drop kick the JA before they can adversely affect our lives.

 

 

Love this Donna! LOL..........it being my future reality. Before.......is key.

[Heart On]

By any chance are you male? It would help to explain you attitude.

 

 

Actually, I'd say its referring to a man.. one single person. People so desperately want to create categories and groups, with identifying characteristics, and then others will read those characteristics and they will feel that it 'fits' a person in their mind. This is flawed reasoning - people are complex with many characteristics, and you can probably fit just about anyone into just about any categories using this method. It's not unlike the way that "psychics" give "readings" to people.. it exploits the same psychological phenomenon of wanting to believe combined with several loose but wide-reaching descriptive factors.

 

If you're so smart,you tell me why psychologists and psychiatrists label people and make categories and use generalizations to DX the general population? My attitude is this.If it walks like a duck and acts like a duck...

 

It's a f*cking duck!

 

Not to mention,EVERY subsequent female massage therapist informed me that if I told her his name after I had told her what had happened,she would be obligated to REPORT HIM.See the difference here yet?

 

I know that HeartOn (and others) are hurt, and the pain means we desperately want to understand things so that we can feel safe again. But there is an overarching coping mechanism being used here that - while I understand it - may not be the most healthy attitude.

 

And who are you to say what's healthy for me or anyone here?

 

First off,I am not hurt anymore.I have wrapped my VERY smart head and heart around this years ago.I am simply paying it forward now.

 

Secondly,you could just as easily say I am intellectualizing and it's just a defense mechanism.Just know,I have had more than my fair share of therapy in regards to my past situations with these types of people...and YES..they do exist and no we don't make it up so we can understand and try to feel safer...THEY EXIST! Not just in our minds darlin'!

 

In our BEDS and hearts and lives...and they intentionally CAUSE PAIN.

 

 

HeartOn was hurt while with her guy.. but her guy did not HURT her. There is a very important distinction. If we allow ourselves to believe that the other person HURT us, then we make ourselves victims. This is totally a coping mechanism, with pros and cons. But one HUGE con is that we dis-empower ourselves.

 

I think it is far healthier to accept that we let ourselves be hurt, that we aren't victims, that we retain the power to control our own life and wellbeing. Until you can do that, you aren't recovering, you're just coping.

 

We are coming from two very differing situations.But because I have no place to rest my weary heart,I wind up in these types of forums.

They are closely related,but immensely different due to the nature of the situation and the person I was dealing with.Sorry to disagree on every level with you,but you simply don't understand the dynamics I guess.I don't blame you,not many people know about what happened TO me.

 

And I only know that because I was banned by the very place

I should have sought support BECAUSE I took 100% personal responsibility for becoming a professional's exploited (USED) victim. They could not get me to see that I was a victim and I argued until I was blue in the face and they pulled the plug on me!He walked scott free and I have sat in forums and been told that I ASKED for it for years.yeah right.

 

In reality,I should have reported him to an Ethics Commitee and had his massage license revolked permanently.I didn't realize that until long after I had left his office and the statute of limitations had run out.The fact that he was married was SECONDARY.The fact that he was a professional in charge of my care and who systematically crossed ALL lines of professionalism with me was primary.

 

I think an Ethics Committee would disagree with you 100%

So would a court of law in some states.My situation began,continued and ended within this mans' office space while I was a naked client at his mercy and all I can tell you is that 1000's of women are professionally exploited by men and women under the guise of "Authority".

It's insidious and no one but the professional is at fault for any harm caused.

 

It doesn't stop with Priests and children.It starts there and it's most public but it reaches into every single helping profession and beyond and it's real.

 

http://www.advocateweb.org/index.php

 

No one is ever 100% safe as we will ALL always have some vulnerability

that someone can target if they so choose.WE all tend to trust by nature until we are burned and we all assume that because we are sincere,so are those around us!

 

I don't know who you are,or what you know or think you know about me,but I can tell you one thing,UNTIL you have been involved with an Married, Professional who happens to be an Anti-social,keep your two cents to yourself.

 

I think it's far healthier to ADMIT that we don't control everything and everyone and that realzing that we can be vulnerable and that rejecting the thought that we can become someone's victim,will never give us the control we so desparately want to think we have.

 

One last thing....

 

WE can't disempower ourselves with knowledge!!!!!!! That's an oxymoron.

 

Knowledge is power and without knowing what I know about how many narcissists and sociopaths roam this earth with me on it,I would be a perpetual target as I am a SUCKER for a charming liar with a sincere seeming, pity ploy.

 

So yeah....don't DARE consider yourself a victim,that way you have to face that you can't control your environment or the people who come into it AT ALL.

 

Now that's enough to scare the sh*t outta anyone and typically why women choose to take personal responsibility for EVERYTHING that happens to them.They can't give up the illusion of control and power!

 

Being able to identify a user is empowering, actually. It gives us knowledge so we can make informed decisions. You know, drop kick the JA before they can adversely affect our lives.

 

One can hope.I choose to stay largely to myself and use the internet as a shield against letting people too close to me anymore.

 

Only a select few are allowed into my "circle of trust".

 

But before I met "him".......I was "blissfully ignorant" just as he wife remains now.

 

Not defensive,simply clarifying and disagreeing...BIG difference.

[Lecturer]

Were you raped, or were you involved with a man whom you feel manipulated and exploited you? Because your last post is very different than the story you used in your OP. You can't use a one set of reasonings to explain away a premise on a different set. You THINK I was saying something along the lines that you weren't victimized (which I wasn't - I was only positing a mindset to help recovery), so you bring up the suggestion of a rape scenario to say "I WAS SO!". That isn't a valid rebuttal. If you were indeed raped, that is a totally different situation than what you started with (a mutually decided relationship in which you were duped).

 

One of your last points explains exactly why I said that that style of coping mechanism (feeling the victim) may be unhealthy:

 

I choose to stay largely to myself and use the internet as a shield against letting people too close to me anymore.

 

You screaming 'you don't KNOW ME!' doesn't really help anything here. You're right, I don't know you, I only know what you've written here. And that is precisely what I'm addressing. Whether you take what I say as valid or not is up to you. My real interest was to offer a counter point for any other men or women that would read your OP and possibly start pigeon holing someone they know into a negative framework that they don't deserve.

[donnamaybe]

People CAN be a victim of lying and manipulation. Doesn't mean you have to go through life with a victim mentality, but to pretend someone hasn't been victimized just because there aren't any outward signs such as scars is ignorant.

 

Posting the things the OP has can be very cathartic which can, in turn, be very healing.

[Heart On]

Were you raped, or were you involved with a man whom you feel manipulated and exploited you? Because your last post is very different than the story you used in your OP. You can't use a one set of reasonings to explain away a premise on a different set. You THINK I was saying something along the lines that you weren't victimized (which I wasn't - I was only positing a mindset to help recovery), so you bring up the suggestion of a rape scenario to say "I WAS SO!". That isn't a valid rebuttal. If you were indeed raped, that is a totally different situation than what you started with (a mutually decided relationship in which you were duped).

 

One of your last points explains exactly why I said that that style of coping mechanism (feeling the victim) may be unhealthy:

 

 

 

You screaming 'you don't KNOW ME!' doesn't really help anything here. You're right, I don't know you, I only know what you've written here. And that is precisely what I'm addressing. Whether you take what I say as valid or not is up to you. My real interest was to offer a counter point for any other men or women that would read your OP and possibly start pigeon holing someone they know into a negative framework that they don't deserve.

 

I did NOT write the Original Topic...I found it a long time ago in another website.

 

I then explained what happened to me and how it differs from an affair.

No it wasn't rape,but there is no such thing as consensual sex between Professional and client.It's called sexual misconduct and had you read the link you would know that.

 

And I won't get into it with you.

 

If the OT doesn't speak to you,count yourself lucky to be either in denial or not dealing with a sociopath/narcissisit.

 

There are many forms of exploitation and I just happened to have fallen prey to more than my fair share of men like the one in the OT.

 

I can point my finger at the problem,doesn't mean you will look.

 

Advocateweb can help you understand the difference if you care to know what I am talking about.

 

I didn't make the laws or codes of ethics...I simply didn't know there was a difference while it was happening,nor by whom.

 

Now I do.

 

Take care all............

Edited June 3, 2011 by Heart On

[Gentlegirl]

Wonder if he reads posts on here and was meant to read that?????????

 

Gentlegirl

Oh whoa! This MM is seriously cooking a huge huge one. Is he under threat? I wonder.