Restoring lines of communication

[trippi1432]

If i were you....I would change my sig line....sigh. :rolleyes: especially the wisdom part.

Edited June 7, 2011 by trippi1432

[You Go Girl]

Believes that what is missing is What_next telling Lexy he doesn't want to converse with her anymore.

It is not up to the wife to rein in the husband's communication. The husband needs to rein in his own.

Stating that Done_wrong has asked Lexy not to post is not the same as What_next stating he doesn't want any communication from Lexy, and meaning it. This should not have to be pointed out.

 

If I were her...and I'm not...I'd disappear out of embarassment. But then, I'd never breach that agreement to stay out of it all in the first place.

 

Trippi you crack me up. God apparently hasn't granted it yet.

[Lexygirl]

No... what seems to be missing is the realization that I don't give a rats ass to talk to either one of them ! I have not spoken to What Next in probably 5 months nor do I have any desire to... I was simply giving what I thought was some decent advice to a former friend ! Plain and simple !

 

No idea what the blocking thing was all about as (like I said before) I have no desire to contact either one of them nor have I bothered ! Eww

 

In fact it's insanity to blow my innocent heartfelt post out of proportion.

 

I'd give the same advice to anyone on here.

 

Hmmph my bad for taking my precious time to do that... THAT is why I said "Some ppl just aren't worth the effort"

 

I'm out

[You Go Girl]

You shouldn't have posted at all. There are plenty of others that can give advice to him.

 

What_next...I have to call you out on the fence sitting. It is less than 100% committment. You may not punish your wife for all of eternity for her infidelity and have a successful marriage. You may not punish her for all of eternity if you end the marriage either.

 

If you love her, you will forgive. To not do so, is to value your pride above your love for her.

Pride goeth before a fall.

And there would be the real tragedy.

[John Michael Kane]

You shouldn't have posted at all. There are plenty of others that can give advice to him.

 

What_next...I have to call you out on the fence sitting. It is less than 100% committment. You may not punish your wife for all of eternity for her infidelity and have a successful marriage. You may not punish her for all of eternity if you end the marriage either.

 

If you love her, you will forgive. To not do so, is to value your pride above your love for her.

Pride goeth before a fall.

And there would be the real tragedy.

 

And his wife should do the same. Enough with the sexism.

[What_Next]

What_next...I have to call you out on the fence sitting. It is less than 100% committment. You may not punish your wife for all of eternity for her infidelity and have a successful marriage. You may not punish her for all of eternity if you end the marriage either.

 

Oh really? Call me out? Are you kidding me? Fence sitting? Bloody hell. You could not be MORE off base. I am NOT punishing her. In fact it is the opposite. She is punishing ME. In fact she knows this as we have discussed it.

 

Get your facts straight before you post this nonsense.

 

Also as to me asking her not to post or contact me, well I did. Also an incorrect assumption.

 

You seem to have some sort of an issue with me, or perhaps the male of our species, go find somewhere else to grind your axe on, because if you try it with me I'll bloody well defend myself against this nonsense. As for quoting proverbs, give me a break, keep that bible thumping to yourself, I have no use for it.

 

John Michael Kane, I cannot see what you are posting as I have chosen to add you to my ignore list, your posts are of no value to me.

Edited June 7, 2011 by What_Next

[Surfer203]

Honestly, stop beating on the guy. He created this thread to better his situation, get constructive advice. NOT be bashed and disrespected. Either help and give some positive suggestions or piss off.

[John Michael Kane]

John Michael Kane, I cannot see what you are posting as I have chosen to add you to my ignore list, your posts are of no value to me.

 

Never asked for your approval dude.

[Donewrong]

Just to clear some things up..

 

WN is not punishing me. He is there for me no matter what I am going through and he is committed to making our relationship work.

 

Also with regards to Lexy. WN did indeed ask her to not contact him anymore...how he did it I honestly have no idea..I wasn't privy to that conversation. He told me he wanted to end communication with anyone from that time because it was wrong and inappropriate and he said he did tell her that. Again yesterday he told her to move on. I'm not sure how much clearer he needs to be. Sounds pretty clear to me.

[You Go Girl]

Oh really? Call me out? Are you kidding me? Fence sitting? Bloody hell. You could not be MORE off base. I am NOT punishing her. In fact it is the opposite. She is punishing ME. In fact she knows this as we have discussed it.

 

Get your facts straight before you post this nonsense.

 

Also as to me asking her not to post or contact me, well I did. Also an incorrect assumption.

 

You seem to have some sort of an issue with me, or perhaps the male of our species, go find somewhere else to grind your axe on, because if you try it with me I'll bloody well defend myself against this nonsense. As for quoting proverbs, give me a break, keep that bible thumping to yourself, I have no use for it.

 

John Michael Kane, I cannot see what you are posting as I have chosen to add you to my ignore list, your posts are of no value to me.

 

I'm not going to react emotionally to this outburst against me, as I'm not emotionally invested in this story.

I'm simply calling it out like I see it.

If she is punishing you, then that's a separate issue that needs to be addressed. I didn't see the evidence of this in the thread, or it would thicken the plot deeper and give me something to think about along those lines.

I have nothing against the male species. I'm as enamoured by people's minds, male or female, as any person who feels compassion.

I feel compassion for you too, if she is punishing you. Like I said, haven't seen it, only can speak on what I do see here.

 

As for assuming that you never asked Lexy to contact you, again, I am not privvy to information passed solely between you and Lexy. I posted on what I saw written on this thread--which was you speaking of your wife's request not to post or contact. I did not see you speak of your own request.

Just the facts as they were presented.

 

As for bible thumping, you couldn't be farther from the truth. I am one of the happy heathens in the world. However, an accurate truth of mankind is worth citing, no matter whence it came. So who is assuming here?

 

I called it as I saw it, and you have reacted strongly with a very angry defense. I wonder if that is because I am so far off the mark, or, there being another possibility, that I am on the mark?

Definitely correct me in how I am wrong, if you so believe, but do so with facts, not angry attacks, thanks. I'm more than willing to hear what is missing from my current view of your story to understand it better.

[You Go Girl]

Just saw your post done_wrong. How are you punishing What_next, if I may so ask?

[Donewrong]

I would have to say WN is better to answer that question but here goes.

I am doing what he did back when he was showing his anger at me for what I did. I am going through those stages now and showing my anger for what he had done. Back when he was punishishing me he'd lash out at me for no apparent reason and after having a conversation last night I realize I was doing the exact same thing to him. We were at different stages of healing at different times. We both see where it's coming from now and I am working to fix it as he did.

[What_Next]

YGG, you are correct in that my posting was over the top and I apologize for that. There were a few triggers that caused me to react as I did and once again I apologize. I value your opinions and do not want to offend you.

 

I hope you now see that you were incorrect in your assumptions.

 

As for you being 'on the mark' and upsetting me, well no that is not the case but you of course are entitled to your own opinions.

 

If you believe and accurate truth of mankind can be found in proverbs, then have fun with that, I'll look elsewhere. I have little intention of discussing any faith based arguments on these threads and that's for sure.

 

I do apologize for coming at you with both barrels, but you called it as you saw it and I did the same, although my choice of words leads a LOT to be desired.

 

It's too bad that this thread has been taken so far off track, my intent was to try and stir up ideas to help communication between Donewrong and I. Unfortunately I've found little from this thread, but that won't stop me from looking and fighting for my marriage. I would much rather have given it my best and fail and know that with conviction than spend the rest of my days wondering what if.

[sweetlife]

You definitely hit on something very true, the exhausting part. I am utterly worn out. It seems constant, each and every day. There seems not be a day where we can just enjoy each others company, enjoy being around each other, there is always that elephant in the room.

 

W_N, I am not good at giving advice, reading, reading, reading as well. You have giving a lot of advice to many of us here and again I don’t post a lot but the bolded part relates a lot to MY H. What seem to really be constants on your post is that you are good at staying calm and give good advice to others so with that said, you are probably the same way at home, to keep calm and peace. I’ve thought many times of the separation but I do not want to separate, I get into all the complicated thinking since it is not about what I want but the fact that my H has allow me to stay by his side. I want him to be happy even if it is not with me, I have told him this several times (off course I make sure that he knows that I love him very much and that I don’t want to divorce) As much as I regret my decisions for the A, it is a fact that he has the last word to whether we stay together or not. It gets more complicated b’se then I think of letting him go and find a wife that he deserves(one that does not cheat) then I think of the times that he has told me that he wants us to work on our marriage, stay together, we have three girls. When I think of our kids and letting go on my H. then it reflects how immature I think since if I let go on my H. then selfishness come in because I am taking away the possibility of letting my kids have a family(I know that if I had think all of this before the A, I would off never done it). It is to late for me now but I still think about it and as best as I could explained it here, it is eating me alive because I brought this upon my family. My response is getting long but what I am saying here is the if you and you wife are willing to keep going then keep going because from what I have read it might get better after 2-5 yr mark so I will said that it is been a short time still for you. For us it is been nine months and I have not loose hope, and intent not to so if you want your family together please DO NOT loose hope. Don’t know how much you believe in God, but I can assure you that praying has really help us both to keep working on our M. and to be more exact about it and it you want to try it. Specially when you are worn out(your words) get on your knees and get your heart out to him and I promise you will see hope for you family. I have been there and my H too and we have notice improvement in our communication. I can sincerely see you want to save your marriage and if nothing else has work, give it a try.

(some here might reply that i dont take prayers seriously, which is ok but believe me it works when you sincerely ask his help)

[scaredandalone1223]

How do you communicate with your other friends? How do you listen at work?

 

Communication has always been my husband and I's strong point, although at times the actual marital communication wasn't the best. We talk about anything and everything though. The friendship our relationship is built on in turn very much helps our marital relationship. I won't say we have always communicated what we wanted and needed out of our marriage the best though. We would often argue and were so headstrong to get the other person to do what we wanted, when we wanted them to we failed to listen to why the other wanted it or why it wasn't getting done. Since our reconciliation we both take a little more time to think before we speak. We work to address things in a way the other party will be more receptive to. Basically no more 'you need to's' and more 'would you mind's....basic please and thank you's go a loooong way!

 

The best advice I can give though is to just talk. Talk about trival things...a cool article you read online today, express your feelings on a current news story, talk about the little things that happened during your day then ask questions. Ask for her opinion & how she feels and wait for her input. In turn have her do the same.

[tojaz]

YGG, you are correct in that my posting was over the top and I apologize for that. There were a few triggers that caused me to react as I did and once again I apologize. I value your opinions and do not want to offend you.

 

I hope you now see that you were incorrect in your assumptions.

 

As for you being 'on the mark' and upsetting me, well no that is not the case but you of course are entitled to your own opinions.

 

If you believe and accurate truth of mankind can be found in proverbs, then have fun with that, I'll look elsewhere. I have little intention of discussing any faith based arguments on these threads and that's for sure.

 

I do apologize for coming at you with both barrels, but you called it as you saw it and I did the same, although my choice of words leads a LOT to be desired.

 

It's too bad that this thread has been taken so far off track, my intent was to try and stir up ideas to help communication between Donewrong and I. Unfortunately I've found little from this thread, but that won't stop me from looking and fighting for my marriage. I would much rather have given it my best and fail and know that with conviction than spend the rest of my days wondering what if.

 

I think this thread is right on track..... if you care to use it. What better way to help learn about communication then to have a glaring example of when it has SERIOUSLY broke down to refer to????

 

YGG who I must say is among the most observant posters on this board posted her opinion....... which you had asked for! unfortunately her take did not necessarily fall in your favor and she was punished for it. A pattern that shows repeatedly on this thread, your previous, and directed at Done Wrongs when she tried to post in S&D awhile back.

 

More telling that what was said is your reaction when you are challenged WN and time and again that pattern is to either lash out or to sever communication entirely. Nobody here is looking to hurt you, attack your charachter,or any other ill will. Why would they? Unfortunately some of the hardest things to hear are the things we need to hear the most.

 

Look back at your communication patterns before you load up your poison pen and write me a reply, take a look at whats there because my response will be your words, not mine.

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

scaredandalone, my communication with my friends has always been quite good. I have a very select group of friends that know me very well. They understand that because of what I do for a living I can be quite blunt. Sometimes that bluntness can be off putting and I understand that, but it is part of my core. I simply say what I think needs to be said.

 

Communication between my wife and I has always been very tough, to say the least. She is an incredibly closed person and has always been so. That frustrates me and always has, and my reaction to it has often caused her to clam up much worse. I have worked on that quite hard and there have been results. The ironic part is that I rarely kept my feelings bottled up or to myself, but as a result of all that has happened that is precisely what I am doing now. I simply don't trust enough to let it out anymore. I am not sure what I will be doing about that.

 

Tojaz, no this thread is NOT on track as far as I am concerned. That is my opinion. If you bother to read my post to YGG I apologize to her and tell her that I should not have posted what I did to her. Or did you simply glance over that? As for me coming at Donewrong way back when she first came in here, do you realize we were seperated at the time and in the early stages of a divorce? Tell me something, how many other couples have actually been on here at the SAME TIME posting in the SAME threads just after D-day? I'd hazard to say not many. Of course I was angry with her, and I was entitled to that anger. That has long passed.

 

You seem to believe you have me all figured out, well I am sorry to say your armchair psychology is off on this one. I often come here when I need to vent and when I am simply frustrated. Why? Because of it's anonymous nature and the fact that people can speak their mind. It is sometimes that deep down reaction that I am looking for, to help point me in the right direction. Tojaz, I respect your posts, you have been immensely helpful to me in the past, but honestly you have formed an opinion of me that is clouding almost any post you make to me. Poison pen? A little melodramatic my friend.

 

I had asked for some ideas on how to start to rebuild the lines of communication, perhaps even exercises we could try or just people that went through the process of fixing badly broken communication patterns. I've found little from this thread but I have taken the time and energy to look elsewhere to find some and have had some success. Therefore in my opinion this thread did go off the rails, if you don't happen to agree Tojaz, then so be it, it is not my concern.

[trippi1432]

scaredandalone, my communication with my friends has always been quite good. I have a very select group of friends that know me very well. They understand that because of what I do for a living I can be quite blunt. Sometimes that bluntness can be off putting and I understand that, but it is part of my core. I simply say what I think needs to be said.

 

Understandable WN, we all communicate differently at different levels depending on the relationship. Work friends, close friends, family, children, spouses....but do you and DoneWrong communicate in an authoritarian fashion or an egalitarian fashion? While it may be a part of your core and a part of you that is expected to be accepted and loved, even the most blunt of folks learn that they need to communicate differently to the different people in their lives. While some might think that "Oh, you are saying I must change"...no, that is not the issue, it's that communication style is a realization of what you are doing and how you are doing it. It's not just that she must get it and accept it, it's that you must realize it and make concessions for the audience you are addressing.

 

Communication between my wife and I has always been very tough, to say the least. She is an incredibly closed person and has always been so. That frustrates me and always has, and my reaction to it has often caused her to clam up much worse. I have worked on that quite hard and there have been results. The ironic part is that I rarely kept my feelings bottled up or to myself, but as a result of all that has happened that is precisely what I am doing now. I simply don't trust enough to let it out anymore. I am not sure what I will be doing about that.

 

As you state above, the more frustration at her being closed off, the less she will communicate. In that, the more frustration on both your parts, the more animosity builds up and here is the result..... of all that has happened that is precisely what I am doing now. I simply don't trust enough to let it out anymore. I am not sure what I will be doing about that.

 

What do you not trust anymore WN? I think I can tell you, you don't trust yourself to let it out anymore because you know and feel that you are doing it wrong else you wouldn't have made this thread asking for insight.

 

Communication comes down to a realization of SELF, what works and what doesn't. Communication is NOT just about the words, it's about body language, touch, eye contact....etc.

 

Tojaz, no this thread is NOT on track as far as I am concerned. That is my opinion. If you bother to read my post to YGG I apologize to her and tell her that I should not have posted what I did to her. Or did you simply glance over that? As for me coming at Donewrong way back when she first came in here, do you realize we were seperated at the time and in the early stages of a divorce? Tell me something, how many other couples have actually been on here at the SAME TIME posting in the SAME threads just after D-day? I'd hazard to say not many. Of course I was angry with her, and I was entitled to that anger. That has long passed.

 

WN - If I may show you something from your response to YGG and cite you a prime example of what you stated in your apology......bear with me, you might not like it, but it bears pointing out if you really want to know something about communication styles.....

 

YGG, you are correct in that my posting was over the top and I apologize for that. There were a few triggers that caused me to react as I did and once again I apologize. I value your opinions and do not want to offend you.

 

I hope you now see that you were incorrect in your assumptions.

 

You are not one bit apologetic with that statement WN, not one bit. It's more of a cest la vi if you don't like what I have to say, I will placate you but I still KNOW that I am right. It appears you even threw in a back-handed compliment for posterity's sake. I'm not candy-coating this one for you WN, you know that I am pulling for you both to work this out, but you wanted to know what the issues are on communication, well I don't mind pointing it out for you.

 

As for you being 'on the mark' and upsetting me, well no that is not the case but you of course are entitled to your own opinions.

 

Again, validation of YOUR opinion and defending yourself.

 

If you believe and accurate truth of mankind can be found in proverbs, then have fun with that, I'll look elsewhere. I have little intention of discussing any faith based arguments on these threads and that's for sure.

 

You certainly did not see YGG's response or take it into consideration as she informed you that she is not a Bible-thumper, yet you put this in your response...why, to continue defending yourself by validating your position instead of listening and comprehending what was said.

 

I do apologize for coming at you with both barrels, but you called it as you saw it and I did the same, although my choice of words leads a LOT to be desired.

 

Here we go, the real example of what I want to get to AND something I put up with for 15 years living with poor communication. That is still NOT an apology....any apology that includes the word BUT is not an apology, it's a personal attack WN.....believe me on this...ask DoneWrong how she feels when you say I apologize, BUT. I know it angered me to no end when my exH did this...."I'm sorry for raging over having to change the light bulb, BUT, if you would turn the light off instead of leaving it on I wouldn't have to yell and scream at all of you." While that might be logical in some people's mind, the preceding rage and then condescending apology are examples of the poor communication in my marriage...that immediately put me on the defensive or made me just shut up, shake my head and walk away. His body language, even his tone of voice was condescending...it was certainly never an apology and typically got met with silent treatment. See the communication dynamic?

 

Now I can already assume that there are a lot of people out there concentrating on that sentence above and saying..."Heck yeah, I would be perturbed too because if the light was off, I wouldn't be changing the bulbs all the time"...well guess what, those that do totally miss the gist of the emotional complexity in communication and why the other thinking causes the animosity and frustration in communication styles between couples. Is it really worth hurting your spouse's feelings and raging over a light bulb...is it really worth depleting the love bank making a scene? Is it really worth giving a half-hearted apology that you don't really mean because at the end of it all, in your mind, the initial reaction from you is that it is someone's else fault for how you feel? It's about as ridiculous as a wife leaving her husband because he doesn't pick up his underwear.

 

Just examples of how poor communication was in my situation WN, but a very good example of how being on the other side of a half-hearted apology feels when you know the other party still blames you for how they feel. My son is only 15 and has had to live in that dynamic and for 2 years he has been just like this. Recently, he has started realizing his behavior and how he contributes to it and now his apologies show that he is taking responsibility for his actions. Instead of "I'm sorry for getting mad at you, BUT you made me mad because I didn't get what I wanted!" (net/net: Your fault Mom) he now says "Mom, I'm sorry for getting mad earlier, it was poor behavior on my part and I apologize". That's ownership...

 

It's too bad that this thread has been taken so far off track, my intent was to try and stir up ideas to help communication between Donewrong and I. Unfortunately I've found little from this thread, but that won't stop me from looking and fighting for my marriage. I would much rather have given it my best and fail and know that with conviction than spend the rest of my days wondering what if.

 

Yes, this was your intent and you are getting very little from it...but are you fighting for your marriage or are you just fighting against each other for position? Blunt is blunt WN, closed off is closed off...instead of looking for a magic pill on how to communicate, look at the style of communication, the body language, are you talking at each other or to each other, are you both blaming and defending or are you both really listening to each other?

 

You seem to believe you have me all figured out, well I am sorry to say your armchair psychology is off on this one. I often come here when I need to vent and when I am simply frustrated. Why? Because of it's anonymous nature and the fact that people can speak their mind. It is sometimes that deep down reaction that I am looking for, to help point me in the right direction.

 

No one has you all figured out WN, not you or DoneWrong...you are both trying to get on the same page...that is understandable, and hopefully you both find a way to communicate as a married couple who cares about each other's thoughts, feelings, goals and making each other a priority. Your friend's and co-worker's are not emotionally connected to you WN, they don't have an emotional investment, nor do any of us on this thread; however, DoneWrong does to you and you to her...blunt gets you to closed-off and are indicators of why the communication style needs to change. But it's not about how to get her to see your side or how to get you to see her side, it's about owning your feelings and each person really listening to how that affects the other party...it's about respecting the sensitivities of the other person, it's about how you speak to the people you work with is not how you speak to the people you love, it's about taking turns being the communicator and the receiver, it's about asking for clarification and coming to agreement and lastly, it's about working together.

 

As a side-note WN - My examples were not to project on you what was broken in my marriage...they are examples of poor communication that was frustrating to no end for both of us and subsequently made us both miserable. They may not be an exact replica of what is going on with the two of you as neither of you were us....just an example of communication breakdown and frustration.

[What_Next]

trippi, wow, what a post. There is a TONNE of things to think about in there. I am so very grateful that you took the time and energy to break this all down.

 

I have little to add as I need some time to digest your post and analyze some of it. I can say that part of staying closed right now comes out of trying to find better ways to express what I am trying to say. It also comes out of being shut down by Donewrong for so many years as far as her letting me in.

 

Once again thank you very much for this post. I am going to read it and re-read it looking for places to begin.

 

I realize that I have a million miles to go in terms of restoring any level of healthy communication with Donewrong, in fact I am no longer sure that we will succeed and the largest part of the blame for that lays squarely on my shoulders. That saddens me. It is up to me to help forge a new way, but I don't think I'll be able to at this point.

[trippi1432]

W_N's, the strength of our character comes out of what we learn about ourselves and is strengthened more by those that love us....take all the time you need to digest. It's not a million miles....it's as simple as having compassion for each other and laying down our pride. Even I have had to learn lessons in that as many people do everyday.

 

Hugs to you both!

[trippi1432]

WN/DoneWrong -

[updown]

i agree with pretty much all trippi said. my ex talked to me like that on a daily basis. basically " i wouldn't have to do this, if you didn't do that in the first place." "i'm sorry, but, it's your fault in the first place." it's very hard communicating with someone like that. basically it become absolutely pointless!!! they are going to be right. and things will be your fault.

 

the technique in "fighting for your marriage" is that one where, one of you speak first about a predetermined matter at a set time. then, the other tells what they heard was said. if it's NOT what you said, then you say it again and you keep doing this until you are both hearing what the other is saying. you take turns and you don't move on til that point is completely UNDERSTOOD by both parties! and you cannot push the blame off on the other person either. there can't be any "i'm sorry, but!" or "yeah, but!" or " i wouldn't have to if you didn't...."

 

the other thing is the whole "I" statement thing. no, "YOU make me feel this way" instead it's " i feel this way when..." and each party has to be able to SAFELY share how they feel without the other person freaking out, or getting angry and mean.

 

if you are at all thinking of saying, " this is just dumb," i'm not sure you'll ever be good at communicating. it might feel funny or seem strange, but if you want a GOOD relationship, then it's not dumb. also, look at the whole contempt and spectrum of those kinds of feelings. you really cannot have a good marriage if one looks down upon the other, or thinks less of the other. there has to be equality in a marriage for it to be good.

 

you guys can do this! you both need to work at it though and sometimes you need to admit you are not right ( both of you!!!)

[Bittersweetie]

W_N,

 

A long time ago I suggested mirroring to you, and at the time you weren't really into it, which is cool. But maybe it's something you could reconsider. Like I said before, I've found two great advantages to the mirroring thing:

 

For the speaker: It makes you feel that you're actually heard, that the other person isn't just, as I call it, "smiling and nodding." And that creates a desire to share more and build a stronger connection.

 

For the listener: It makes you actually understand the other person and where they are coming from. Usually when I listen I immediately get annoyed/sad/whatever and start preparing a rebuttal statement in my mind. But listening this way takes those reactions away, since you have to concentrate on the moment. I've found it creates a stronger connection from this side too.

 

That said, it can get real intense. It's hard to hear what the other person is saying and not jump in with your own thoughts and feelings. We don't do very often but it's been helpful in the past. Maybe it could be a step toward building a communication model you're more comfortable with.

[debtman]

W_N & Donewrong,

 

Been following your thread(s) since my troubles began and have gotten LOTS of incredibly helpful advice and insight.

 

It sounds like you both really love each other, you're both interested in making the relationship work and you both love your daughter and know it's in her best interest to stay together...that being said, you're both facing BIG trust issues with each other and are both holding back emotionally and putting up walls between you. Communication is an extremely difficult thing because, in order to communicate with someone else effectively, we need to be able to "communicate" with ourselves effectively and know why we feel a particular way and honestly address that and it's just too easy to tell ourselves what we "want to hear."

 

I know you've been working on fixing your marriage for over a year and it must be frustrating to see it getting better ans worse, but, separation and impending divorce can bring up incredibly difficult obstacles in a relationship that will forever impact your perception of the other person...

 

That being said, the most important thing is that you keep working on it together. Face the issues as honestly as you can and remember that the other person is as committed to this as you are.

 

All relationships have ups and downs, being able to be open, honest and communicate about them is what makes a relationship work.

 

That being said...if you do decide it just won't work, you've gone through enough and dealt with enough and communicated openly enough that you might just be able to come out of a divorce and still be "friends" with each other, which is more than can be said for 99% of us on here...

 

My thoughts are with you guys...

 

Good luck and keep posting...

[fltc]

I'm wondering if this thread should take a break, it's aroused some tempers and it's so very easy to breakup an on-line friendship.....

 

Maybe a couple of days rest might help? Just a thought.

 

PS: As always, I have VERY valuable opinions on this thread as well as on damn near everything :rolleyes: but I'll just shut up and go away for a couple of days....