What's the difference?

[TigerCub]

 

I dont know , I can relate my own experience.

My husband cheated, ONS, I caught him. I have never seen a man more remorseful. I took him back. A year later...

He text cheated.I caught him, shyte hit the fan. He insisted on complete transparency, IC, MC, the whole thing. To be honest, I thought it was just texting, just attention, and even felt like "Hey, dont worry honey we can get past this" but didnt say it.

Year Later:

He cheated, multiple OW, craigs list, secret identity, etc etc gag.

I left.

 

Understand that part of what I do for a living is research people, its easy for me to find things out. I caught him each time because ..Im not all that trusting of a person by nature I guess.

 

I wanted it to be OK sure, but I didnt turn a blind eye, I was not ignorant. But what he said, the talent he had to convince me...I dont know what to tell you - it wasnt my fault I believed him.

 

I totally forgot about that (in bold) - yes, can't believe I didn't consider it - it is true, some people are so damn convincing, they just put on their mask and play their role and yes, I totally see what you mean with that.

 

Thanks for explaining.

 

Glad you left the jacka$$ - and I remember from your other posts, you were quite the smart lil devil when it came to getting him to sign some important docs

[N.A.]

Very true, Snowflower. Even after a D day there is still often a LOT of lying to the BS going on; about the A itself (when it started, how in depth it is, etc.) and whether it is ongoing or not. An OW/OM knows all the details of the A itself (except for the fibs the MM/MW tells to keep the A going, of course ). The BS knows ONLY what he/she is told.

 

VERY different circumstances, actually, often even after D day.

 

That is why as much as I love my husband and we are working on our marriage, there will only be 1 D-Day, this will NOT happen to me again.

 

I can understand a "slip" in judgement, I don't understand out right ignorance. I guess I didn't fully understand Tiger's questions until now.

 

If my husband fully lives up to what he says was a one time thing, then by all means our marriage can work itself out. However if I even find out a hint of him speaking sideways to another woman....there is no amount of love, compassion or care that could hold me in place. I don't understand why a woman would do that to herself. I also don't understand how another woman can carry on a relationship with a MM after numerous D-Day's, it's the same concept to me.

 

You both know what he is doing, he is playing both sides of the fence. I can understand the OW aspect as they are made to feel as if they are the "only one", however what other women fail to realize....that is exactly what he told his wife when he married her.

 

For either woman to stay there would have to be a great amount of insecurities on both parts really. For an OW to say that this MM who has clearly crapped all over his wife, is the "love of her life" and continue to be kept on the back burner while he lies to her is beyond me. Also for a BS to stay when she keeps finding out that he is continually cheating on her.....that to me as a BS is just assinine!

 

I think what women in general really need to look at is the very real world of SA. There are some women who suffer from the same thing. A SA's sense of love and self worth is attached to their "organ." There is extensive therapy that needs to be gone through in order for this one person to truly feel what we emotionally experience as love.

 

In this case.....you have 2 women fighting over a person unemotionally available really. That is the best way that I can describe someone who habitually cheats anyway he or she can really.

 

Sad fact of the matter is, the person who has the addiction may not realize it as such, just as the two unsuspecting women who have been invested emotionally, mentally, and physically are failing to realize that the man they have invested their time in needs HELP. Basically what is going to happen is they will both be burning their energy at both ends until one of them decides to give up.

 

It can also boil down to: Heart break on both ends. The WS can't fix what he isn't aware of and will continue his behavior until either the OW get's tired of his crap or the BS does. It's really a gamble that is in his favor if you think about it. Either way, he doesn't care and he get's to have his cake and eat it to. So neither one of them for the sake of "love, companionship, feelings, emotions, time vested, etc.", are clearly wrong, they are both just fighting for the same thing.....A DOUCHE BAG who has serious issues.

[N.A.]

 

I dont know , I can relate my own experience.

My husband cheated, ONS, I caught him. I have never seen a man more remorseful. I took him back. A year later...

He text cheated.I caught him, shyte hit the fan. He insisted on complete transparency, IC, MC, the whole thing. To be honest, I thought it was just texting, just attention, and even felt like "Hey, dont worry honey we can get past this" but didnt say it.

Year Later:

He cheated, multiple OW, craigs list, secret identity, etc etc gag.

I left.

 

Understand that part of what I do for a living is research people, its easy for me to find things out. I caught him each time because ..Im not all that trusting of a person by nature I guess.

 

I wanted it to be OK sure, but I didnt turn a blind eye, I was not ignorant. But what he said, the talent he had to convince me...I dont know what to tell you - it wasnt my fault I believed him.

 

 

2sure: I don't have a job where I research people, but I am very good at finding out anything that I want to know about someone. I am very, how do you put it....computer literate.

 

I am glad that you are out of the relationship. I am also sorry for what you had to go through. Your story goes to show that there are many hats to infidelity therefore not one generalization can be made about either the OW or the BS really. They are just two blind people trying to trust a man that is completely off his moral rocker.

[TigerCub]

That is why as much as I love my husband and we are working on our marriage, there will only be 1 D-Day, this will NOT happen to me again.

 

I can understand a "slip" in judgement, I don't understand out right ignorance. I guess I didn't fully understand Tiger's questions until now.

 

If my husband fully lives up to what he says was a one time thing, then by all means our marriage can work itself out. However if I even find out a hint of him speaking sideways to another woman....there is no amount of love, compassion or care that could hold me in place. I don't understand why a woman would do that to herself. I also don't understand how another woman can carry on a relationship with a MM after numerous D-Day's, it's the same concept to me.

 

You both know what he is doing, he is playing both sides of the fence. I can understand the OW aspect as they are made to feel as if they are the "only one", however what other women fail to realize....that is exactly what he told his wife when he married her.

 

For either woman to stay there would have to be a great amount of insecurities on both parts really. For an OW to say that this MM who has clearly crapped all over his wife, is the "love of her life" and continue to be kept on the back burner while he lies to her is beyond me. Also for a BS to stay when she keeps finding out that he is continually cheating on her.....that to me as a BS is just assinine!

 

I think what women in general really need to look at is the very real world of SA. There are some women who suffer from the same thing. A SA's sense of love and self worth is attached to their "organ." There is extensive therapy that needs to be gone through in order for this one person to truly feel what we emotionally experience as love.

 

In this case.....you have 2 women fighting over a person unemotionally available really. That is the best way that I can describe someone who habitually cheats anyway he or she can really.

 

Sad fact of the matter is, the person who has the addiction may not realize it as such, just as the two unsuspecting women who have been invested emotionally, mentally, and physically are failing to realize that the man they have invested their time in needs HELP. Basically what is going to happen is they will both be burning their energy at both ends until one of them decides to give up.

 

It can also boil down to: Heart break on both ends. The WS can't fix what he isn't aware of and will continue his behavior until either the OW get's tired of his crap or the BS does. It's really a gamble that is in his favor if you think about it. Either way, he doesn't care and he get's to have his cake and eat it to. So neither one of them for the sake of "love, companionship, feelings, emotions, time vested, etc.", are clearly wrong, they are both just fighting for the same thing.....A DOUCHE BAG who has serious issues.

 

If I were to bold what I'd agree with - I'd bold the whole thing

Awesome post!

[2sure]

I totally forgot about that (in bold) - yes, can't believe I didn't consider it - it is true, some people are so damn convincing, they just put on their mask and play their role and yes, I totally see what you mean with that.

 

Thanks for explaining.

 

Glad you left the jacka$$ - and I remember from your other posts, you were quite the smart lil devil when it came to getting him to sign some important docs

 

Yeah, you get it. I spend a lot of time on here trying to explain to OW/OM how much groveling , convincing, begging, and dancing a WS has to do for most BS just to stay in the house. (not the other way around)Eh, maybe it makes me feel better.

 

But anyway - I am so flattered that anyone would remember my saga so clearly!! And yes, after I realized he was gaslighting me so well - I gaslighted him back right into a false sense of security and walked away , very financially stable lets say. I learned from the best - him.

 

He broke my heart . I didnt take the money because I wanted it so much as I wanted him to lose something more important to him than I apparently was.

[N.A.]

 

Yeah, you get it. I spend a lot of time on here trying to explain to OW/OM how much groveling , convincing, begging, and dancing a WS has to do for most BS just to stay in the house. (not the other way around)Eh, maybe it makes me feel better.

 

But anyway - I am so flattered that anyone would remember my saga so clearly!! And yes, after I realized he was gaslighting me so well - I gaslighted him back right into a false sense of security and walked away , very financially stable lets say. I learned from the best - him.

 

He broke my heart . I didnt take the money because I wanted it so much as I wanted him to lose something more important to him than I apparently was.

 

 

 

I think that I am going to read through your old posts and start taking notes.....juuuuust in case!

[bentnotbroken]

 

Yeah, you get it. I spend a lot of time on here trying to explain to OW/OM how much groveling , convincing, begging, and dancing a WS has to do for most BS just to stay in the house. (not the other way around)Eh, maybe it makes me feel better.

 

But anyway - I am so flattered that anyone would remember my saga so clearly!! And yes, after I realized he was gaslighting me so well - I gaslighted him back right into a false sense of security and walked away , very financially stable lets say. I learned from the best - him.

 

He broke my heart . I didnt take the money because I wanted it so much as I wanted him to lose something more important to him than I apparently was.

 

 

Yes. I does have a certain amount of satisfaction to it...doesn't it? When they are with us, they forget that we learn from them as well.

[TigerCub]

 

Yeah, you get it. I spend a lot of time on here trying to explain to OW/OM how much groveling , convincing, begging, and dancing a WS has to do for most BS just to stay in the house. (not the other way around)Eh, maybe it makes me feel better.

 

But anyway - I am so flattered that anyone would remember my saga so clearly!! And yes, after I realized he was gaslighting me so well - I gaslighted him back right into a false sense of security and walked away , very financially stable lets say. I learned from the best - him.

 

He broke my heart . I didnt take the money because I wanted it so much as I wanted him to lose something more important to him than I apparently was.

 

I'm sorry that he's hurt you so much, and I really applaud you for how you handled it - yeah, that story stuck with me - good on ya

[2sure]

I think that I am going to read through your old posts and start taking notes.....juuuuust in case!

 

 

N.A - you and your H are reconciling and doing it right and I support you. Dont read my stuff right now, our stories are similar in some respects - I didnt want to point it out because I dont want my posts to enter your thoughts while you are doing such a good job keeping your head straight.

[N.A.]

 

 

N.A - you and your H are reconciling and doing it right and I support you. Dont read my stuff right now, our stories are similar in some respects - I didnt want to point it out because I dont want my posts to enter your thoughts while you are doing such a good job keeping your head straight.

 

Thanks 2sure

 

I don't know some days how well of a job I am doing "keeping my head straight", it is getting better but there for a while I thought it was going to get really ugly. Some days are better than others.

 

I think all of our initial D-Day's are similar in some respects, but then there is some where after that things start to veer off. It is sad to say, but I have had a lot of support. There is not one woman that I know that has NOT been cheated on. I am starting to think that it is the "norm" when in a marriage or relationship. It really sucks waking up from that "happy ever after", to a man that was once a prince and is now a frog!

[Breezy Trousers]

But how can the BS plead ignorance about their spouses cheating if there are multiple Ddays? How are they less informed than the AP? (considering serial cheating)

 

I've been a near OW and a BS, so I'll put my BS hat on for this reply ...

 

I don't know about multiple D-Days, but I do know a bit about serial cheaters.

 

My husband, I guess, could qualify as a serial cheater. He had two affairs. When I learned of the first affair, I took full responsibility for HIS actions. So I suppose I lacked self confidence and, certainly, wisdom. I couldn't believe my husband cheated. You don't know how shocking this is for someone who has complete trust in a spouse and no evidence to the contrary ... My husband's affair was with a woman "famous" in our circles for cheating with MM, so I believed my husband when he told me she came on to him, it was a mistake, and it would never happen again. I also blamed myself for his affair. I was convinced it wouldn't happen again if I worked very hard on myself and very hard on the marriage. I bought into conventional wisdom which suggested he would not have cheated if he had been happy at home. I always defaulted to being a "good girl" in my life as a means of protection from bad things, so I went to work to make huge, studied changes in myself, both physically (runner/weight training) and emotionally (significant recovery from childhood abuse issues). Within three years, I was a new woman -- more confident, getting whistles from men, and showing up so much better in our marriage. We were very connected. We had great sex. Things were wonderful.

 

Then my husband had affair #2.

 

I quickly learned that affairs are about the cheater. Only always. Screw conventional wisdom. That's what experience has taught me.

 

With affair #2, I showed my husband the door. I loved him and was heartbroken -- honestly, he was and is a fantastic husband -- but I loved myself, too, and I had worked HARD, and I wasn't going to tolerate lying and manipulation from anyone, much less my "best friend." He got into Sex Addicts Anonymous as a condition for keeping our marriage intact. He's still there, helping himself and other men. We're happy.

 

But here's the odd thing:

 

Lots of people attacked me for staying. They didn't attack my husband for his actions. They attacked me.

 

To be betrayed by your husband and then criticized by outsiders for staying was incredibly painful. People can be unbelievably cruel when you're down. It's always about their own fear, not you. It taught me to go inward for approval and emotional sustenance, rather than turning to turn to my husband and others for that. I don't mean to offend anyone here -- and I'm not religious --- but I had to turn to God to pull through it.

 

Dealing with my husband's affairs forced me to develop self-confidence and self-reliance. I would have preferred a different way to learn these lessons, of course, but life is about embracing paradox. That was mine.

 

Looking back, perhaps things may have been different if my husband's affairs lasted into a year or two. But, really, who knows the mysteries of D-Day and BS? Experience with affairs has taught me that we never know how we'll react in any given situation -- and usually our reaction is never what we imagine it would be pre-affair -- Just musing out loud ... I can't see myself having enough courage to forgive years of dishonesty and manipulation, even with the support of S.A. Experiencing the short-term affair was abusive enough, and all my husband did was suddenly start ignoring me during the weeks he was focused on OW.

 

I believe that some BS are married to spouses with personality disorders and/or abusive mentalities. That's a whole another thread and special category. Traumatic bonding is complicated, probably addictive and not easily dismissed as "lacking self confidence." I believe the public is woefully uneducated on personality disorders and how it impacts infidelity. That's begun to change in the last 10 years, though, as has the notion of sex addiction --- a notion which was openly laughed & scoffed at 10 years ago. (People aren't laughing anymore, I notice ...)

 

As an aside --

 

It was mentioned that BS are often obsessed with OW. Not in my experience. My girlfriend is in a three-year affair. She is so obsessed with the oblivious BS that sometimes I don't know if her affair is with BS or MM. lol... On the other hand, I didn't spend much mental time on the OW in my life, and I knew both. I either (inappropriately) blamed myself (first affair) or (appropriately) blamed my husband (2nd affair), not OW ... However, I may have felt differently if I had my entire life systematically dismantled by my "best friend"/husband and OW in a covert alliance over a year or two.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Breezy Trousers

[Spark1111]

I've been a near OW and a BS, so I'll put my BS hat on for this reply ...

 

I don't know about multiple D-Days, but I do know a bit about serial cheaters.

 

My husband, I guess, could qualify as a serial cheater. He had two affairs. When I learned of the first affair, I took full responsibility for HIS actions. So I suppose I lacked self confidence and, certainly, wisdom. I couldn't believe my husband cheated. You don't know how shocking this is for someone who has complete trust in a spouse and no evidence to the contrary ... My husband's affair was with a woman "famous" in our circles for cheating with MM, so I believed my husband when he told me she came on to him, it was a mistake, and it would never happen again. I also blamed myself for his affair. I was convinced it wouldn't happen again if I worked very hard on myself and very hard on the marriage. I bought into conventional wisdom which suggested he would not have cheated if he had been happy at home. I always defaulted to being a "good girl" in my life as a means of protection from bad things, so I went to work to make huge, studied changes in myself, both physically (runner/weight training) and emotionally (significant recovery from childhood abuse issues). Within three years, I was a new woman -- more confident, getting whistles from men, and showing up so much better in our marriage. We were very connected. We had great sex. Things were wonderful.

 

Then my husband had affair #2.

 

I quickly learned that affairs are about the cheater. Only always. Screw conventional wisdom. That's what experience has taught me.

 

With affair #2, I showed my husband the door. I loved him and was heartbroken -- honestly, he was and is a fantastic husband -- but I loved myself, too, and I had worked HARD, and I wasn't going to tolerate lying and manipulation from anyone, much less my "best friend." He got into Sex Addicts Anonymous as a condition for keeping our marriage intact. He's still there, helping himself and other men. We're happy.

 

But here's the odd thing:

 

Lots of people attacked me for staying. They didn't attack my husband for his actions. They attacked me.

 

To be betrayed by your husband and then criticized by outsiders for staying was incredibly painful. People can be unbelievably cruel when you're down. It's always about their own fear, not you. It taught me to go inward for approval and emotional sustenance, rather than turning to turn to my husband and others for that. I don't mean to offend anyone here -- and I'm not religious --- but I had to turn to God to pull through it.

 

Dealing with my husband's affairs forced me to develop self-confidence and self-reliance. I would have preferred a different way to learn these lessons, of course, but life is about embracing paradox. That was mine.

 

Looking back, perhaps things may have been different if my husband's affairs lasted into a year or two. But, really, who knows the mysteries of D-Day and BS? Experience with affairs has taught me that we never know how we'll react in any given situation -- and usually our reaction is never what we imagine it would be pre-affair -- Just musing out loud ... I can't see myself having enough courage to forgive years of dishonesty and manipulation, even with the support of S.A. Experiencing the short-term affair was abusive enough, and all my husband did was suddenly start ignoring me during the weeks he was focused on OW.

 

I believe that some BS are married to spouses with personality disorders and/or abusive mentalities. That's a whole another thread and special category. Traumatic bonding is complicated, probably addictive and not easily dismissed as "lacking self confidence." I believe the public is woefully uneducated on personality disorders and how it impacts infidelity. That's begun to change in the last 10 years, though, as has the notion of sex addiction --- a notion which was openly laughed & scoffed at 10 years ago. (People aren't laughing anymore, I notice ...)

 

As an aside --

 

It was mentioned that BS are often obsessed with OW. Not in my experience. My girlfriend is in a three-year affair. She is so obsessed with the oblivious BS that sometimes I don't know if her affair is with BS or MM. lol... On the other hand, I didn't spend much mental time on the OW in my life, and I knew both. I either (inappropriately) blamed myself (first affair) or (appropriately) blamed my husband (2nd affair), not OW ... However, I may have felt differently if I had my entire life systematically dismantled by my "best friend"/husband and OW in a covert alliance over a year or two.

 

Very introspective, very smart....very wise.

 

I have read that serial cheating is a symptom of feelings of powerless and cheating with many strangers is an effort to feel in power and in control by someone who needs to portray that, but truly does not feel it. They feel like they have fraudulently received power which in their heart, they do not believe they deserve though they crave power like a drug because it validates the personna they want to be, desperately need to be.

 

Did anyone read spouse or marriage in that statement? No, certainly not. Did anyone read hot sex with many partners? No, of course not. That is the public fantasy about serial cheating, but not the reality. It is not about any of the above. It is about power and control, falsely attained.

 

Like rape. It has NOTHING to do with sex, though rape fantasies are very prevalent among the normal. It has to do with domination and control to bolster feelings empowered among those who truly feel powerless.

 

It has to do with what is broken within the cheater, or the serial, or the rapist...not the spouse, not the marriage.

 

Hell, they may love the spouse, they may love being married.

 

But the compulsion to have sex with strangers, sometimes many strangers, is outside of their psychological control, not sexual control.

 

It empowers them more than it sexually stimulates them, which is what the public perceives it does when serials are exposed.

 

But it those perceptions are the projections of normally oriented people. It must be about titillating sex! No, sadly it is not. Read up on it.

[Silly_Girl]

There is not one woman that I know that has NOT been cheated on. I am starting to think that it is the "norm" when in a marriage or relationship.

 

I know of two or three. A tiny minority. It scares me. I try not to think about it too much, if I dwell on it it blows my mind.

 

Also, in my previous relationship I know I used it as an 'excuse' (there were many) not to take action when I should be leaving. My boyfriend did the same in his marriage. "Everyone's in the same boat, if I start over it'll just happen again. May as well stay put....".

[TigerCub]

I've been a near OW and a BS, so I'll put my BS hat on for this reply ...

 

I don't know about multiple D-Days, but I do know a bit about serial cheaters.

 

My husband, I guess, could qualify as a serial cheater. He had two affairs. When I learned of the first affair, I took full responsibility for HIS actions. So I suppose I lacked self confidence and, certainly, wisdom. I couldn't believe my husband cheated. You don't know how shocking this is for someone who has complete trust in a spouse and no evidence to the contrary ... My husband's affair was with a woman "famous" in our circles for cheating with MM, so I believed my husband when he told me she came on to him, it was a mistake, and it would never happen again. I also blamed myself for his affair. I was convinced it wouldn't happen again if I worked very hard on myself and very hard on the marriage. I bought into conventional wisdom which suggested he would not have cheated if he had been happy at home. I always defaulted to being a "good girl" in my life as a means of protection from bad things, so I went to work to make huge, studied changes in myself, both physically (runner/weight training) and emotionally (significant recovery from childhood abuse issues). Within three years, I was a new woman -- more confident, getting whistles from men, and showing up so much better in our marriage. We were very connected. We had great sex. Things were wonderful.

 

Then my husband had affair #2.

 

I quickly learned that affairs are about the cheater. Only always. Screw conventional wisdom. That's what experience has taught me.

 

With affair #2, I showed my husband the door. I loved him and was heartbroken -- honestly, he was and is a fantastic husband -- but I loved myself, too, and I had worked HARD, and I wasn't going to tolerate lying and manipulation from anyone, much less my "best friend." He got into Sex Addicts Anonymous as a condition for keeping our marriage intact. He's still there, helping himself and other men. We're happy.

 

But here's the odd thing:

 

Lots of people attacked me for staying. They didn't attack my husband for his actions. They attacked me.

 

To be betrayed by your husband and then criticized by outsiders for staying was incredibly painful. People can be unbelievably cruel when you're down. It's always about their own fear, not you. It taught me to go inward for approval and emotional sustenance, rather than turning to turn to my husband and others for that. I don't mean to offend anyone here -- and I'm not religious --- but I had to turn to God to pull through it.

 

Dealing with my husband's affairs forced me to develop self-confidence and self-reliance. I would have preferred a different way to learn these lessons, of course, but life is about embracing paradox. That was mine.

 

Looking back, perhaps things may have been different if my husband's affairs lasted into a year or two. But, really, who knows the mysteries of D-Day and BS? Experience with affairs has taught me that we never know how we'll react in any given situation -- and usually our reaction is never what we imagine it would be pre-affair -- Just musing out loud ... I can't see myself having enough courage to forgive years of dishonesty and manipulation, even with the support of S.A. Experiencing the short-term affair was abusive enough, and all my husband did was suddenly start ignoring me during the weeks he was focused on OW.

 

I believe that some BS are married to spouses with personality disorders and/or abusive mentalities. That's a whole another thread and special category. Traumatic bonding is complicated, probably addictive and not easily dismissed as "lacking self confidence." I believe the public is woefully uneducated on personality disorders and how it impacts infidelity. That's begun to change in the last 10 years, though, as has the notion of sex addiction --- a notion which was openly laughed & scoffed at 10 years ago. (People aren't laughing anymore, I notice ...)

 

As an aside --

 

It was mentioned that BS are often obsessed with OW. Not in my experience. My girlfriend is in a three-year affair. She is so obsessed with the oblivious BS that sometimes I don't know if her affair is with BS or MM. lol... On the other hand, I didn't spend much mental time on the OW in my life, and I knew both. I either (inappropriately) blamed myself (first affair) or (appropriately) blamed my husband (2nd affair), not OW ... However, I may have felt differently if I had my entire life systematically dismantled by my "best friend"/husband and OW in a covert alliance over a year or two.

 

WOW Breezy!

Thank you for such an honest post.

 

There are some things that stood out for me.

The part where you say you were criticized for staying with him and that people didn't criticize his actions - (I'm not trying to minimize the pain you felt because of that) - but I'm thinking that people criticized you for staying because they saw that his actions towards you were terrible and that anyone deserves better -> so it is criticizing his actions.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't have stayed or anything like that - I'm just saying that as someone who reads a story on a forum (I have no emotional connection to the WS) and I would think "what? he treated you so badly, get out, you deserve better" (I'm not really talking in your specific case - just in general - that's what I would think).

 

Anywhos....

The other comment is about how we never know how we will react in a given situation until we're there - and I completely agree with you.

I haven't been cheated on ever (that I know of) and I always thought "oh if someone cheats on me, there's the door" but honestly from reading posts like yours, N.A. Silk's, HereNow, Owl, Spark, etc... I honestly don't know what I would do - you guys really bring to light how it is absolutely necessary to hold your ground and have confidence and pride, but there is also room to listen, forgive, and make things better.

 

Thanks again for your honesty

[Snowflower]

WOW Breezy!

Thank you for such an honest post.

 

I agree! It is so insightful and I think Breezy does a good job at conveying what many BW feel after d-day.

There are some things that stood out for me.

The part where you say you were criticized for staying with him and that people didn't criticize his actions - (I'm not trying to minimize the pain you felt because of that) - but I'm thinking that people criticized you for staying because they saw that his actions towards you were terrible and that anyone deserves better -> so it is criticizing his actions.

 

I think most BS have heard something similar from well-meaning friends/family. I know I did. And some probably heard from friends/family who were not so well-meaning because they were projecting their own fears about being cheated on in a marriage. Again, I know I did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't have stayed or anything like that - I'm just saying that as someone who reads a story on a forum (I have no emotional connection to the WS) and I would think "what? he treated you so badly, get out, you deserve better" (I'm not really talking in your specific case - just in general - that's what I would think).

 

It's very easy to say those things from an outside perspective.

 

I think this is what Breezy might mean when she said there are so many lame stereotypes about infidelity. It seems like the decision would be easy to make after infidelity--leave the cheater's sorry azz.

 

I know it seems that way from the outside.

Anywhos....

The other comment is about how we never know how we will react in a given situation until we're there - and I completely agree with you.

I haven't been cheated on ever (that I know of) and I always thought "oh if someone cheats on me, there's the door" but honestly from reading posts like yours, N.A. Silk's, HereNow, Owl, Spark, etc... I honestly don't know what I would do - you guys really bring to light how it is absolutely necessary to hold your ground and have confidence and pride, but there is also room to listen, forgive, and make things better.

 

Thanks again for your honesty

 

Yes, the whole "if someone cheated on me, I'd be out the door" statement. :rolleyes:

 

Don't you think that most, if not all partners in a relationship have said (or at least thought it) at one time or another before the affair ever happens? I know and remember when I specifically told my H that I don't think I would ever be able to forgive unfaithfulness. Turns out, I was partly right.

 

Anyway, what makes a spouse who says that (long before the affair is even on the horizon) any different than the person who has been untouched by cheating?

 

I realize those last few sentences sound kind of confrontational, I don't mean them to be. It's just how they are conveyed in writing.

 

 

I finally had enough from my sister who kept saying that "anyone who cheated on her would be out the door." I told her that I said the exact same thing years ago and look what happened. I also told her point-blank that it was a direct slam on me and my decision to say that type of thing to my face.

 

If anyone else ever says something similar to me again, and yes, I heard it several times at the beginning after d-day, they will get a similar response. To me, it shows how far I've come in my healing and perspective.

[TigerCub]

I agree! It is so insightful and I think Breezy does a good job at conveying what many BW feel after d-day.

 

 

I think most BS have heard something similar from well-meaning friends/family. I know I did. And some probably heard from friends/family who were not so well-meaning because they were projecting their own fears about being cheated on in a marriage. Again, I know I did.

 

 

It's very easy to say those things from an outside perspective.

 

I think this is what Breezy might mean when she said there are so many lame stereotypes about infidelity. It seems like the decision would be easy to make after infidelity--leave the cheater's sorry azz.

 

I know it seems that way from the outside.

 

 

Yes, the whole "if someone cheated on me, I'd be out the door" statement. :rolleyes:

 

Don't you think that most, if not all partners in a relationship have said (or at least thought it) at one time or another before the affair ever happens? I know and remember when I specifically told my H that I don't think I would ever be able to forgive unfaithfulness. Turns out, I was partly right.

 

Anyway, what makes a spouse who says that (long before the affair is even on the horizon) any different than the person who has been untouched by cheating?

 

I realize those last few sentences sound kind of confrontational, I don't mean them to be. It's just how they are conveyed in writing.

 

 

I finally had enough from my sister who kept saying that "anyone who cheated on her would be out the door." I told her that I said the exact same thing years ago and look what happened. I also told her point-blank that it was a direct slam on me and my decision to say that type of thing to my face.

 

If anyone else ever says something similar to me again, and yes, I heard it several times at the beginning after d-day, they will get a similar response. To me, it shows how far I've come in my healing and perspective.

 

I think its the fact that its not the sex with someone else that's the biggest issue - its the betrayal, the lying the manipulation.

I honestly don't know how I would ever be able to trust someone if they did that to me - the physical stuff, I could get past, but the lying I don't think I could.

 

Even if I decided to stay, I would imagine that every time their phone rang, every time they were going for a boys night out - I'd wonder, I wouldn't be able to live that way. I don't think I'd be able to get the trust back.

 

I'm sure that everyone who had to deal with infidelity felt that way whether they stayed or not (in the long run).

 

That's why I always said "I wouldn't handle it - it'll be over"

 

but I totally agree with you and everyone that said that you never know how you'll react until you're in that situation.

 

I see how your sisters comments bother you, I would see it as insensitive because it implies that you're settling for crap she would never take, and that you're not as strong as her - but you know what your relationship is like, you know you and what you're capable of and that's all that matters.

 

I'm glad that you are at a point where you're so much more at peace with everything. You know how it really is and that's all that matters

[Breezy Trousers]

I think most BS have heard something similar from well-meaning friends/family. I know I did. And some probably heard from friends/family who were not so well-meaning because they were projecting their own fears about being cheated on in a marriage. Again, I know I did.

 

 

It's very easy to say those things from an outside perspective.

 

I think this is what Breezy might mean when she said there are so many lame stereotypes about infidelity. It seems like the decision would be easy to make after infidelity--leave the cheater's sorry azz.

 

I know it seems that way from the outside.

 

 

Yes, the whole "if someone cheated on me, I'd be out the door" statement. :rolleyes:

 

Don't you think that most, if not all partners in a relationship have said (or at least thought it) at one time or another before the affair ever happens? I know and remember when I specifically told my H that I don't think I would ever be able to forgive unfaithfulness. Turns out, I was partly right.

 

Anyway, what makes a spouse who says that (long before the affair is even on the horizon) any different than the person who has been untouched by cheating?

 

I realize those last few sentences sound kind of confrontational, I don't mean them to be. It's just how they are conveyed in writing.

 

 

I finally had enough from my sister who kept saying that "anyone who cheated on her would be out the door." I told her that I said the exact same thing years ago and look what happened. I also told her point-blank that it was a direct slam on me and my decision to say that type of thing to my face.

 

If anyone else ever says something similar to me again, and yes, I heard it several times at the beginning after d-day, they will get a similar response. To me, it shows how far I've come in my healing and perspective.

 

Snowflower, I agree. I think other people's fear around infidelity can sometimes be more damaging and isolating than the infidelity itself. You can't understand that until you've lived it.

 

I think it's hard to truly know to understand the BS until you've been in the experience. Likewise, it's hard to understand the OW until you've had the experience. I sense Tiger is trying to understand. Short of having the experience ourselves, empathy is the best we can do.

 

Very introspective, very smart....very wise.

 

I have read that serial cheating is a symptom of feelings of powerless and cheating with many strangers is an effort to feel in power and in control by someone who needs to portray that, but truly does not feel it. They feel like they have fraudulently received power which in their heart, they do not believe they deserve though they crave power like a drug because it validates the personna they want to be, desperately need to be.

 

Did anyone read spouse or marriage in that statement? No, certainly not. Did anyone read hot sex with many partners? No, of course not. That is the public fantasy about serial cheating, but not the reality. It is not about any of the above. It is about power and control, falsely attained.

Like rape. It has NOTHING to do with sex, though rape fantasies are very prevalent among the normal. It has to do with domination and control to bolster feelings empowered among those who truly feel powerless.

 

It has to do with what is broken within the cheater, or the serial, or the rapist...not the spouse, not the marriage.

 

@#!*% , they may love the spouse, they may love being married.

 

But the compulsion to have sex with strangers, sometimes many strangers, is outside of their psychological control, not sexual control.

 

It empowers them more than it sexually stimulates them, which is what the public perceives it does when serials are exposed.

 

But it those perceptions are the projections of normally oriented people. It must be about titillating sex! No, sadly it is not. Read up on it.

 

Spark, I completely agree with everything you wrote. The same broken spirit which compels people to serially cheat will also cause them to just as quickly devalue and discard their partners once their conquest has been satiated. The emptiness remains, so they are soon trolling for a new person to seduce and dominate.

 

I read The Psychopath Test recently, and the author interviewed a man responsible for killing many people in Haiti. It surprised that author that this "psychopath" needed people to like him. In fact, the guy worked very hard to make people like him. The author challenged this man -- why he was so insecure that he needed people to like him? The man said that he needed people to like him because they are much easier to manipulate when they like him.

 

Serial cheaters are often very charming and practiced at false intimacy.

 

Not all serial cheaters are "hitters." The guy who wrote Casanova Complex talks about sex addiction and the various forms it takes. I believe he referred to serial cheaters who target one woman after another after another as "hitters" (if I'm not mistaken -- ironic, in view of what you write!). He goes down the list to serial monagamists. Hitters are into sex for power and, I suspect, often have personality disorders and, as such, are often resistant to therapy and such programs as Sex Addicts Anonymous. (S.A. addresses the psychological/spiritual underpinnings of sex addiction, not the sexual behavior itself.) Serial monagamists are at the other end of the spectrum -- guys who cheat with one partner every 7-10 years or so, divorce, get married to the new partner, and do it again ... It's still sex addiction, but, as a recovering sex addict himself, the author concedes that the addiction takes numerous forms, depending on the guy. The problem is that addiction is always progressive.

 

 

WOW Breezy!

Thank you for such an honest post.

 

There are some things that stood out for me.

The part where you say you were criticized for staying with him and that people didn't criticize his actions - (I'm not trying to minimize the pain you felt because of that) - but I'm thinking that people criticized you for staying because they saw that his actions towards you were terrible and that anyone deserves better -> so it is criticizing his actions.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't have stayed or anything like that - I'm just saying that as someone who reads a story on a forum (I have no emotional connection to the WS) and I would think "what? he treated you so badly, get out, you deserve better" (I'm not really talking in your specific case - just in general - that's what I would think).

 

Anywhos....

The other comment is about how we never know how we will react in a given situation until we're there - and I completely agree with you.

I haven't been cheated on ever (that I know of) and I always thought "oh if someone cheats on me, there's the door" but honestly from reading posts like yours, N.A. Silk's, HereNow, Owl, Spark, etc... I honestly don't know what I would do - you guys really bring to light how it is absolutely necessary to hold your ground and have confidence and pride, but there is also room to listen, forgive, and make things better.

 

Thanks again for your honesty

 

Thanks, Tiger!

 

Your comment makes perfect sense. I do think a lot of the criticism of me for staying with my husband after the second infidelity came from a loving place. I saw that at the time, too. However, there's a fine line between sharing an opinion and attacking. It seemed some of my married girlfriends were more reactive than my single girlfriends & sisters, and I began to wonder if my well-being wasn't their ONLY concern. A couple friends eventually confided their fear that it was women like me -- who didn't show their husbands the door -- who were teaching THEIR husbands that infidelity is "okay." I didn't agree with their perspective but appreciated their candor. I think they speak for a lot of people ....

 

Likewise, I have to be careful here. Several times I've noticed I've felt angry at what an OW has posted. When I get that reactive feeling, it's always an invitation to go inside and explore why that is. I'm clear it's not about OW. However, that doesn't prevent me from sharing opinions here. I do this because I've learned a lot from being a near OW and I want to share that. If it helps, fine. If not, let it go and move on. We must all respect that each person has the dignity and intelligence to make her/his own choices for her/his life. This includes OW who have been in the same affair for years and for BS who have been cheated on more than once. We aren't God. There is often a deeper reason for this experience that is invisible to us, sometimes even to those of us IN the experience ... speaking from experience! Every experience is a potentially healing/holy one, and sometimes that never looks the way I demand it look. It's not up to me to know or even try to define what that is for myself, much less anyone else. Growth is always messy. It doesn't follow orderly patterns.

 

How do I know that my friend is supposed to be in a 3-year affair with someone? Because she is. How do I know I was supposed to stay with my husband after he cheated on me twice? Because I did, and now it's 10 years later, and we're happy. How do I know that I was supposed to be criticized after my husband's infidelity? Because I was (and it forced me to go inside for support, so thank God they did.) How do I know my husband was supposed to cheat? Because he did. My tears, my anger, my blaming isn't going to change that fact. When I argue with reality, I lose. Only always. **

 

** Got this from the Work of Byron Katie, which saved my rear when I was trying to navigate the infidelity situation 10 years. (I'm not a diligent practitioner of Byron Katie's method of forgiveness, so none of my comments here are a reflection of Byron Katie teaches.)

 

P.S. At the beach this weekend, I read Jenny McCarthy's latest book. (It's fun!) Jenny mentioned in the book that she had never been cheated on, to her knowledge. I thought to myself, "Yep. I remember when I used to believe that too." I didn't find out about my husband's first affair until many, many months after it had ended -- well over a year, maybe longer ... I truly believed I had never been cheated that entire time, but clearly that was not reality. I always prided myself on being a very intelligent, discerning person. Life has a way of teaching humility, lol ...... I quickly learned that none of us truly know that we've never been cheated on. It's not possible to know that. All we know is our belief that we've never been cheated on. Beliefs can be very comforting, of course, and can sometimes conform to reality. Also, sometimes people go to their graves not understanding they were cheated on and that, essentially, their belief was nothing more than a story they told themselves over & over. (I'm not knocking that, either. Reality rules. If you don't know, clearly you weren't supposed to know....)

Edited June 7, 2011 by Breezy Trousers

[fooled once]

To be honest I don't see any difference as stated. However, IME (and also represented here on LS) most BS won't continually take the same cheater back, she'll kick him out.

 

Agree!!! Great thread, great post!