For anyone who doesn't consider A's wrong

[waytogo]

Whether you are in an A or have been; whether you are now M to or with the previous AP, would it be wrong if the person you are with had an A behing your back?

[waytogo]

OK, here is the explanation:

 

Most of these folks do not believe in marriage. Furthermore, they believe that marriage does not mean the wife owns the husband.

 

The husband is not the property of the wife therefore he has the right to pursue other relationships in the open market.

 

In an open market the OW is free to pursue a relationship with MM because the OW made no vows to the BW.

 

MM pursued OW, hence this makes it OK.

 

It is likely BW never gives sex to MM so someone has to step up.

 

OWs are not lying to anyone so they can proudly look at themselves in the mirror. All the lying and cheating is done by the MM.

 

OW does not believe in marriage so playing the marriage card is futile.

 

Kids adjust to divorce so playing the kids card is a moot point.

 

OWs are better at BJs than BWs

 

It is likely BW knows there is an affair and looks the other way in denial. Therefore, it must be OK to sleep with MM.

 

I respectfully disaggree Pierre. Many OW want very much to be a W.

 

There is one previous OW who is married to the AP here, who still states A's aren't wrong.

 

The no sex in the M is on rare occasion true; but a very tired excuse.

 

After unfortunately being an OW and now M, I haven't forgotten any techniques in anything to do with lovemaking. The who can do a BJ better is a joke.

 

Many OW are pining to be the one and only. If they think they got this just to be cheated on themselves, would A's still look like something to cheer on for others?

[Silly_Girl]

would A's still look like something to cheer on for others?

 

I gave your OP some thought and was ready to answer. I think it's a VERY good question to ask here. But then I saw the above and I remembered that I'm falsely accused of being an 'affair cheerleader' and posting would be pointless. If I was a BS with my views they'd be viewed differently.

 

I hope you get lots of interesting answers though

[White Flower]

OK, here is the explanation:

I'm sorry Pierre, but I don't know your back story. Have you any experience in an EMR? If so, how can you portend to answer for anyone else?

 

Most of these folks do not believe in marriage. Furthermore, they believe that marriage does not mean the wife owns the husband.

True. I have always said that many BS here tend to believe that M=Ownership. I do not agree with that idea. And I was M for 25 years.

 

The husband is not the property of the wife therefore he has the right to pursue other relationships in the open market.

 

In an open market the OW is free to pursue a relationship with MM because the OW made no vows to the BW.

 

MM pursued OW, hence this makes it OK.

 

It is likely BW never gives sex to MM so someone has to step up.

 

OWs are not lying to anyone so they can proudly look at themselves in the mirror. All the lying and cheating is done by the MM.

 

OW does not believe in marriage so playing the marriage card is futile.

 

Kids adjust to divorce so playing the kids card is a moot point.

 

OWs are better at BJs than BWs

 

It is likely BW knows there is an affair and looks the other way in denial. Therefore, it must be OK to sleep with MM.

The last nine points are just stereotypes; I am sure the OP is aware of this so I won't need to convince her.

 

The OP's question was would it be ok if the person you are now with (who left his/her BS for you I presume) had an A behind your back.

 

And from the original thread that the OP assumes will be deleted by the mod, the idea came from wondering if a certain poster, who now has her fMM as her own happily M H, thinks it would be ok if he would now have an A behind her back.

 

If it were me? With all the years of deep intimacy we have shared I would expect him to answer me very honestly if I suspected that he desired someone else and even be forthright on his own. And TBH, if he did, I wouldn't be threatened by it, but I'm strong that way. If he honestly felt strong feelings for someone else, who am I to hold him down? How can I be that possessive when I can't stand or respect his BW being as such? THAT would be hypocrytical! I am one of those who honestly could't stand mercy f***s and would never put up with it. I would never force my H or 'committed' partner to stay, and I proved that in my first M.

 

So if he expressed to me that he truly had no feelings left for me, then yes, it would be ok to move on. I would prefer he do it up front though, and not behind my back. Like I said, too much communication between us now to ever go back to something less. He's come to respect this level of intimacy, of being so unafraid of being honest, that he can't accept less now. Who would want to?

 

If the second or recent M did not develop the kind of intimacy that is hashed out over and over in deciding to leave the M's, and be together in a full time committed R, and was something merely rushed into because the OP was just too hot to pass up, then it could happen that the MP finds him/herself unfulfilled and in yet another A sitch. Without developing that deep level of intimacy this is bound to happen. But more often than not, it takes a strong bond to overcome D, and finally coming together out in the open and facing the consequences that come with that. Those bonds are hard to break.

 

Age can play into all of this, as well as experience. It is more likely that a younger fMP will cheat again than an older one. Common sense will tell you that.

[whichwayisup]

Most of these folks do not believe in marriage. Furthermore, they believe that marriage does not mean the wife owns the husband.

 

No, many of them DO, that's the thing..Though things change when they become the 'wife', so cheating is unacceptable..Though it's OK to help yourself to a MM and think nothing of his wife, kids (sorry if this comes off as harsh, not directed at anybody, I'm generalizing and using a certain type of OW, obviously not ALL are like I"m saying, not at all..), but when she gets her MM, the rules change completely.

 

All I can say is, if you end up with someone who you helped cheat on their spouse, don't be surprised if they turn around and cheat on you. Is it wrong? Of course it is.

[White Flower]

Some want marriage, perhaps the young ones. However, others do not care for marriage and use that as a justification for the affair.

 

Any woman can do a BJ. However, they will try less hard in a 20 year old marriage when the relationship is secure. The OW tries hard because she is competing. The BW has no clue she is competing, ha, ha.

 

Your technique in lovemaking is moot. For a philandering MM a new chevy on the side is better than the old Rolls Royce (or Bentley) at home.

Are you kidding me??? Are you really a man? And how many BJs have you received throughout your life by a long term committed partner??? BTW, those are not personal questions directed to you, just rhetorical ones.

 

I was M for 25 years Pierre, and it was always my conquest to be better today than I was yesterday. Status quo regarding sex was NEVER an issue in my bedroom, even when the M went sour. Sex was the very last thing to go.

 

BW DO compete! I competed when I first learned of my exH's OW, even if it got old quick. I finally figured that if he didn't want me, then he didn't want me. Funnily enough he dumped her in an effort to prove he wanted me but it was much too late for me.

 

MM has confided that after D-day number gozillian that BW is in major competition mode. Too bad it is much too late for him.

 

I guess I can't call myself a new Chevy. It's been almost 6 years and it still feels like we met very recently.

[crazycatlady]

I'm sorry Pierre, but I don't know your back story. Have you any experience in an EMR? If so, how can you portend to answer for anyone else?

 

 

True. I have always said that many BS here tend to believe that M=Ownership. I do not agree with that idea. And I was M for 25 years.

 

The last nine points are just stereotypes; I am sure the OP is aware of this so I won't need to convince her.

 

The OP's question was would it be ok if the person you are now with (who left his/her BS for you I presume) had an A behind your back.

 

And from the original thread that the OP assumes will be deleted by the mod, the idea came from wondering if a certain poster, who now has her fMM as her own happily M H, thinks it would be ok if he would now have an A behind her back.

 

If it were me? With all the years of deep intimacy we have shared I would expect him to answer me very honestly if I suspected that he desired someone else and even be forthright on his own. And TBH, if he did, I wouldn't be threatened by it, but I'm strong that way. If he honestly felt strong feelings for someone else, who am I to hold him down? How can I be that possessive when I can't stand or respect his BW being as such? THAT would be hypocrytical! I am one of those who honestly could't stand mercy f***s and would never put up with it. I would never force my H or 'committed' partner to stay, and I proved that in my first M.

 

So if he expressed to me that he truly had no feelings left for me, then yes, it would be ok to move on. I would prefer he do it up front though, and not behind my back. Like I said, too much communication between us now to ever go back to something less. He's come to respect this level of intimacy, of being so unafraid of being honest, that he can't accept less now. Who would want to?

 

If the second or recent M did not develop the kind of intimacy that is hashed out over and over in deciding to leave the M's, and be together in a full time committed R, and was something merely rushed into because the OP was just too hot to pass up, then it could happen that the MP finds him/herself unfulfilled and in yet another A sitch. Without developing that deep level of intimacy this is bound to happen. But more often than not, it takes a strong bond to overcome D, and finally coming together out in the open and facing the consequences that come with that. Those bonds are hard to break.

 

Age can play into all of this, as well as experience. It is more likely that a younger fMP will cheat again than an older one. Common sense will tell you that.

 

There is much wisdom in this post, IMO.

 

As a fBW I don't believe I own him. I never thought that. And I have never been a jealous insecure person. We have an open marriage partly for that reason. I love him, but I don't own him. What I was owed however was respect and honesty and that he did not give me. I don't know if I could have handled WHO he had the affair with if he had been honest. So I am actually up in the air on whether telling me first would have made a difference.

 

But like WF, my main issue was was I get the mercy f***? Was he staying to avoid childsupport (unlikely because I always said he got the kids ) and a number of other issues running through my head. All because he wasn't honest. And because of who it was. However he's selfish enough that if he really wanted her over me, he would be with her.

 

The main issue with affairs is someone has to be lying, hiding, and deceiving another person. And that doesn't sit well with me.

 

But then what do I know... I'm just a fBW.

[White Flower]

No, many of them DO, that's the thing..Though things change when they become the 'wife', so cheating is unacceptable..Though it's OK to help yourself to a MM and think nothing of his wife, kids (sorry if this comes off as harsh, not directed at anybody, I'm generalizing and using a certain type of OW, obviously not ALL are like I"m saying, not at all..), but when she gets her MM, the rules change completely.

 

All I can say is, if you end up with someone who you helped cheat on their spouse, don't be surprised if they turn around and cheat on you. Is it wrong? Of course it is.

I respect the fact that you stated not all OW are the same. Of course we aren't! We're young old, experienced, inexperienced, pretty, ugly, skinny, fat, and on and on! So how can we all believe the same if we ourselves are not the same?

 

As I stated before, I couldn't not hold MM to standards in our M that I clearly claim he should be free of in his current one. That would be very hypocrytical. But then again, he claims to have not loved her in years, and claims to have loved me most of all in all his years of loving. That plays a major role in how the future rules are set up too. Yet, love is the entity that drives the R, whereas M is only the entity that drives the insurance, assets, and decisions for kids among other things.

[White Flower]

There is much wisdom in this post, IMO.

 

As a fBW I don't believe I own him. I never thought that. And I have never been a jealous insecure person. We have an open marriage partly for that reason. I love him, but I don't own him. What I was owed however was respect and honesty and that he did not give me. I don't know if I could have handled WHO he had the affair with if he had been honest. So I am actually up in the air on whether telling me first would have made a difference.

 

But like WF, my main issue was was I get the mercy f***? Was he staying to avoid childsupport (unlikely because I always said he got the kids ) and a number of other issues running through my head. All because he wasn't honest. And because of who it was. However he's selfish enough that if he really wanted her over me, he would be with her.

 

The main issue with affairs is someone has to be lying, hiding, and deceiving another person. And that doesn't sit well with me.

 

But then what do I know... I'm just a fBW.

I remember you well CCL! How have you been?

 

Your H's betrayal was a tripple-whammy because first and foremost you had a very special agreement, that most MM do not have the privelege of getting, and he didn't abide by the rules of that rare gift. He blew it.

 

Then he chose to break those rules with not just any OW, but one very close to you, causing her betrayal of you two. Ouch. I hated him for that! Because you gave so much of yourself, including a rare and special trust.

 

Going behind your back was wrong, no doubt about it. When all he had to do was tell you up front, knowing you allowed it so many times before. I'm sorry you're still up in the air about whether telling you would have made the difference. At the time though, IIRC, you were very upset that he didn't. Has time changed things a bit for you?

[fooled once]

Many long term OW claim they don't believe in marriage but I would bet my house if the MM ever did divorce and ask to marry the ow, the ow would jump at the chance.

 

I had an affair years ago. I was told some of the stock lies that are in the mm handbook

 

Many ow believe what they are participating in is ok. Many would be as heartbroken as a betrayed wife is when that man they had to have cheats on them. Many claim different morals than those who they claim are close minded and judgmental

 

Many will swear up and down they are the "true love" of the conflicted MM (also known as a split self )

 

Many claim they are the only one who KNOWS the mm.

 

Many OW will use any and all justifications for participating in an affair and are not remorseful of their actions and behaviors.

 

Many will wait years and years for a man to leave his wife/family.

 

Many will excuse the MM's actions and betrayal.

 

BUT......

 

Many are the opposite of the above and are very regretful and saddened by their participation. Many regret their actions and behavior.

 

And most importantly, no one is forced to participate in an affair.

[crazycatlady]

I remember you well CCL! How have you been?

 

Your H's betrayal was a tripple-whammy because first and foremost you had a very special agreement, that most MM do not have the privelege of getting, and he didn't abide by the rules of that rare gift. He blew it.

 

Then he chose to break those rules with not just any OW, but one very close to you, causing her betrayal of you two. Ouch. I hated him for that! Because you gave so much of yourself, including a rare and special trust.

 

Going behind your back was wrong, no doubt about it. When all he had to do was tell you up front, knowing you allowed it so many times before. I'm sorry you're still up in the air about whether telling you would have made the difference. At the time though, IIRC, you were very upset that he didn't. Has time changed things a bit for you?

 

Things are actually really great between us now, and I'm doing great. Well now that school is out I'm having trouble being motivated to get anything done LOL but I'm enjoying the sluggishness too.

 

The up in the air comment is more...I don't know how I would have reacted if he told me first that he had formed a connection with her and wanted to look into a sexual or even more relationship with her. I think I always knew there was an attraction between them, and I would sometimes make comments about it and he always denied them.

 

But looking back, just over a year from him telling me, over 18 months from finding out, almost 2 years from the last time they saw each other....I don't know if I could have been understanding. Its a question I flip flop back and forth on.

 

But I do wish he had given me the chance and have been honest. I would like to think I could have dealt with it. And maybe there wouldn't be the troubles between she and I as there are now. And lately...I've been pondering reaching out to her...But that's totally off topic, and I'm sorry op.

 

But thanks for asking WF

[White Flower]

But thanks for asking WF

I'm sure the OP doesn't mind us reconnecting on her thread for a moment. Thanks for the update and you take good care of yourself dear.

[SidLyon]

I respect the fact that you stated not all OW are the same. Of course we aren't! We're young old, experienced, inexperienced, pretty, ugly, skinny, fat, and on and on! So how can we all believe the same if we ourselves are not the same?

 

As I stated before, I couldn't not hold MM to standards in our M that I clearly claim he should be free of in his current one. That would be very hypocrytical. But then again, he claims to have not loved her in years, and claims to have loved me most of all in all his years of loving. That plays a major role in how the future rules are set up too. Yet, love is the entity that drives the R, whereas M is only the entity that drives the insurance, assets, and decisions for kids among other things.

 

Oh Whiteflower. From the way you speak it seems the A is ongoing. Last I heard you had ended it until and unless he left the wife he claims not to love. Please tell me I'm wrong...

[anne1707]

I am glad you are still a NEW to your new H. You better be flawless or else? It is sad that it is up to you to keep your H from cheating. Hopefully he is now older and less inclined to stray.

 

No WF is not married to this man. He is a MM and she is the OW - hence as she said she has been on both sides as BS and now OW

[jj33]

 

I am glad you are still a NEW to your new H. You better be flawless or else? It is sad that it is up to you to keep your H from cheating. Hopefully he is now older and less inclined to stray.

 

Pierre what makes you think older men are less inclined to stray? They may have more free time and age doesnt keep people from looking for new partners if they are unhappy. Recent statistics have shown that people 60+ are divorcing more frequently than any other age bracket. The children are grown and the couple are left on their own and if they have grown apart, that is when the divide becomes most apparent. It makes sense that those that dont divorce, if they are open to affairs, would continue to seek out EMRs.

 

Pierre I think you are dealing in stereotypes.

[YellowShark]

Affairs are considered wrong. Period. There is no grey area here. If you've committed to another and break that promise by having an affair you have done wrong. You broke a vow, a solemn promish you made.

 

And I always get a chuckle in this section when the OW is "surprised" when they find out their affair partner a) lied to them about stuff, and B) is also cheating on them as well. Well what did you expect? Fidelity and the truth? From a cheater? Funny!

 

It best to have a "partner" who you can trust. In business and in love. Trust is the foundation of all relationships.

[Silly_Girl]

Affairs are considered wrong.

 

Yep. But they happen. Good people, bad people, crazy people, sane people all choose to participate in affairs.

 

Sometimes I wonder why the person didn't stray sooner, given their circumstances. Other times I think they need their head flushing down the loo and a thousand slaps, just as a start.

 

I am able to understand how some affairs have come about, and have empathy or sympathy many times for those involved/affected.

 

It is possible to do that and NOT be pro-affair.

 

Moral standards and realism can co-exist, in my view.

 

There's much hypocrisy about those who have affairs. Poster A, for example, can post about how self-serving and cowardly and manipulative and cruel cheaters are, then congratulates a BS for having the strength to attempt to reconcile. Well, are these people beyond repair and disgusting? Or not? And poster A can also encourage a cheater to work on their marriage, but if poster A's views are to be taken seriously, the cheater doesn't deserve to have a spouse to reconcile with and should be dropped on their ar$€.

 

I think striving to live to one's moral standard is so important, part of our integral core. But at the same time where we/you/they fail to achieve that, or have different moral standards, it should not elicit disrespect or venom. It should not generate a superiority battle. Some people who don't have affairs are real nasty pieces of work. Some who do cheat live otherwise morally upstanding and hardworking lives.

 

Treating people badly is what we should be looking to avoid, not just those in/affected by affairs but those looking down on them too.

[OWoman]

Affairs are considered wrong. Period.

 

By some. Not by all.

[YellowShark]

By some. Not by all.

 

Agreed. Some people have no problem with affairs. I do because they involve throwing someone under a bus - the BS. They also involve - (in many cases) - children who are unsuspecting victims of the fallout from an affair.

 

And that's something I simply refuse to be responsible for. Throwing a BS under a bus, and hurting unsuspecting children. It's a dealbreaker for me. I am more than that.

[OWoman]

It best to have a "partner" who you can trust. In business and in love. Trust is the foundation of all relationships.

 

Agree. I'm not a trusting person. While many people trust until proven wrong, I start out from a position of distrust until my trust has been earned. Few get that far...

[White Flower]

Pierre what makes you think older men are less inclined to stray? They may have more free time and age doesnt keep people from looking for new partners if they are unhappy. Recent statistics have shown that people 60+ are divorcing more frequently than any other age bracket. The children are grown and the couple are left on their own and if they have grown apart, that is when the divide becomes most apparent. It makes sense that those that dont divorce, if they are open to affairs, would continue to seek out EMRs.

 

Pierre I think you are dealing in stereotypes.

They are calling it 'gray divorce'. MM told me about it.

[White Flower]

You have been both: The new Chevy and the old Rolls Royce. You were a great wife and still your H betrayed you. It was not your fault, he was simply looking for strange and you could not be strange to him. He cheated because he was a cheater and he probably told his OW you were a cow in bed.

 

I am glad you are still a NEW to your new H. You better be flawless or else? It is sad that it is up to you to keep your H from cheating. Hopefully he is now older and less inclined to stray.

I happen to know he bragged to his friends about what a freak I am in bed. Maybe my exH's friend's W's told his OW the same thing? I don't really care, I know what I was and what he threw away, I also know he regretted a lot of his actions.

 

We are all flawless to someone, eventually, to someone who really accepts us as we are.

[fooled once]

. Oh WF, I too remember you once again telling the mm you were done while he played you and the wife with all his indecision and alleged counseling. Sorry to hear your resolve to want more than being his OW didn't last long

[Mme. Chaucer]

60 is the new 50 and there are many young good looking unattached women out there looking.

 

50 is the new 30, too!

[waytogo]

By some. Not by all.

 

To be honest OWoman, it was you I wanted to hear from. I had asked in another thread but know we don't always see threads to the end.

 

I don't ask this to confront you or be disrespectful. Your posts have shown you are now M to your former AP. You replied to me previously, something like "not all of us think A's are wrong". You really got my curiousity. Would it be wrong for your now H to have an A, or are A's still not wrong?

 

Truly, I'm not and would have no right to come from some 'higher moral ground' to ask you. I was an OW. I'm married, not to the previous AP, but married. I want infidelity as far from us as possible. I do feel bad for what I did. I'm not telling you how you should feel, I hope you get that.

 

For me, I think I feel likeif the 'bus' headed my way it would hurt so much. Reason, because I (not anyone else here is accused of the same) was so self centered at that time. Who would know more than me how much another can be so disregarded for what felt better for me in a moment. That's why I think I couldn't consider R after and A. Of course many thought that and made it work.

 

There are different situations of course. Is it that some circumstances make you feel your A wasn't wrong, or you don't believe any A's are wrong.