Recognising Self Esteem Issues

[Rooke]

I think it's important for anyone in an A to start concentrating on their self esteem.

If you are a confident, centred person who doesn't look to others for validation then it wouldn't even be in your radar to accept being second best, being a tiny part if you MM/MW life wouldn't be acceptable to you.

Create an 'Absolute No' list, a list in which you will no longer behave in ways that would be detrimental to you so you can put yourself first. It doesn't have to be related to an A but on my list is "I will no longer invest time in relationships that I know in my heart have no future"

Being second best isn't a nice feeling, it isn't self esteem building or an encouraging situation.

Why are you compromising who you are for a tiny slice of the pie?

Breaking it off may be painful, but so much less painful than waiting for D day and realising you've lost and you'll always lose.

Also, think about the karma you're sending out into the world, how would you feel if you found out your husband or wife was doing this to you?

A few hours of pleasure isn't worth the pain it'll cause.

It's about asking yourself "How have I allowed myself to get into this situation?"

Yes the WS will end up hurting their BS but it doesn't have to you who's responsible for causing the hurt.

If you love yourself enough, then don't "settle" for what's not right.

[Gentlegirl]

Rooke,

such a different woman to the one who started posting here some time ago.

 

I agree with your post. I acknowledge how I got into the SECOND BEST role and it will not happen aagain.

 

We need to be very aware of ourselves if we are feeling fragile or having huge life problems.

 

Gentlegirl

[waytogo]

I think it's important for anyone in an A to start concentrating on their self esteem.

If you are a confident, centred person who doesn't look to others for validation then it wouldn't even be in your radar to accept being second best, being a tiny part if you MM/MW life wouldn't be acceptable to you.

Create an 'Absolute No' list, a list in which you will no longer behave in ways that would be detrimental to you so you can put yourself first. It doesn't have to be related to an A but on my list is "I will no longer invest time in relationships that I know in my heart have no future"

Being second best isn't a nice feeling, it isn't self esteem building or an encouraging situation.

Why are you compromising who you are for a tiny slice of the pie?

Breaking it off may be painful, but so much less painful than waiting for D day and realising you've lost and you'll always lose.

Also, think about the karma you're sending out into the world, how would you feel if you found out your husband or wife was doing this to you?

A few hours of pleasure isn't worth the pain it'll cause.

It's about asking yourself "How have I allowed myself to get into this situation?"

Yes the WS will end up hurting their BS but it doesn't have to you who's responsible for causing the hurt.

If you love yourself enough, then don't "settle" for what's not right.

 

Very nice Rooke. As far as me, there is just-no-way, even if I hadn't met my H after A life. No matter what time they do give, as OW I always knew it was stolen. Gifts? sure, some, how about if something we hope never does happens to me so I can't work? Are you going to take care of me? What if something happened to you. If I love you, I would want to be near to take care of you, and not as some secret, if that was even possible.

 

What MM set up for the best of times would never work when life throws us a loop. Life will always throw us a loop somehow in some time. I've learned I want to live up peoples best wishes and no secrects to stress over when fan meets pooh.

[Rooke]

Very nice Rooke. As far as me, there is just-no-way, even if I hadn't met my H after A life. No matter what time they do give, as OW I always knew it was stolen. Gifts? sure, some, how about if something we hope never does happens to me so I can't work? Are you going to take care of me? What if something happened to you. If I love you, I would want to be near to take care of you, and not as some secret, if that was even possible.

 

What MM set up for the best of times would never work when life throws us a loop. Life will always throw us a loop somehow in some time. I've learned I want to live up peoples best wishes and no secrects to stress over when fan meets pooh.

 

I'm so glad you raised this point because it's so true. When I was with MM he got really poorly once and I didn't hear from him for ages but when I called him he said he was in hospital and I thought if he'd died, I'd never have known about it because I would have just thought he had broken it off for good and he'd been too much of a coward to tell me.

I think this is true of most situations, unless you had mutual friends or colleagues or saw it in the news then you just wouldn't know or even if you did you're hardly going to the one sharing your grief with his family.

I know this is an extreme situation but it just goes to show how small a part you play in that persons life, and the most important thing is that you're seeing a MM, just assume every time he opens his mouth, he's lying. And he probably is.

[twinsmom]

Rooke, that was a very thought-provoking post, but I have to share my feelings. I hesitate to say the word "disagree", because I don't like it.

I am not cocky about myself, or overly self-confident or overly self-assured, not in the least, but I also don't suffer from self-esteem issues. The reason I was with my MM for the time that I was is simply because I loved him. Yes, I was "second-best" for the time that I was with him, but it was not because of a lack of self-esteem on my part, but simply because I truly loved him and foolishly thought things would eventually change. They didn't, and I've had to deal with that. But even that hasn't shaken my self-esteem. I've managed to raise two great kids in the eleven years since my husband died, and that has helped to keep my self-esteem intact. So many people are quick to say "she must have no self-esteem" because of the fact that we love/loved a married man, but that is simply not true in many cases. Sometimes it's just due to foolishness.

[twinsmom]

P.S. I would never allow myself to be in the same situation again, nor would I encourage anyone else to do it.

[twinsmom]

I know myself, and I know my level of self-esteem. It's not low. The fact that I was in love with a MM doesn't change that. It might make me gullible, but it doesn't change my

feelings about myself.

[Silly_Girl]

I know myself, and I know my level of self-esteem. It's not low. The fact that I was in love with a MM doesn't change that. It might make me gullible, but it doesn't change my

feelings about myself.

 

Same here. My self-esteem was higher than it had been for years when I met my guy. I was feeling confident, self-sufficient, making every day count.

 

Good posting TM.

[pureinheart]

I think it's important for anyone in an A to start concentrating on their self esteem.

If you are a confident, centred person who doesn't look to others for validation then it wouldn't even be in your radar to accept being second best, being a tiny part if you MM/MW life wouldn't be acceptable to you.

Create an 'Absolute No' list, a list in which you will no longer behave in ways that would be detrimental to you so you can put yourself first. It doesn't have to be related to an A but on my list is "I will no longer invest time in relationships that I know in my heart have no future"

Being second best isn't a nice feeling, it isn't self esteem building or an encouraging situation.

Why are you compromising who you are for a tiny slice of the pie?

Breaking it off may be painful, but so much less painful than waiting for D day and realising you've lost and you'll always lose.

Also, think about the karma you're sending out into the world, how would you feel if you found out your husband or wife was doing this to you?

A few hours of pleasure isn't worth the pain it'll cause.

It's about asking yourself "How have I allowed myself to get into this situation?"

Yes the WS will end up hurting their BS but it doesn't have to you who's responsible for causing the hurt.

If you love yourself enough, then don't "settle" for what's not right.

 

Hi Rooke,

 

I have to disagree on so many levels, no offense to you or the post...what I am about to say is not meant to cut your opinions down:)

 

I am of the opinion, due to my own experiences that A's or any R is a measurement of a persons self esteem.

 

If I may, take this opportunity to say that anyone who defines themselves based on a R, or R's is on some scary ground. This is not to say that during the "death" or "loss" of a R one should not mourn or be depressed for a time, no matter who "killed" the R. Never let any R or person define you. Ever.

 

Your experiences seem to be much different than mine..I have never lost in a R, some didn't work out, although each and every R has taught me so much.

 

Every person on this earth has highs and lows, there are times that many things will dictate ones self image...it is good to rise above good or bad self esteem issues, and just know that God doesn't make junk.

 

Let the condemnation go, the self hatred no matter what you (you in general) have done or haven't done, understanding that life is wayyyy too short.

[pureinheart]

Rooke, I've always felt this way and I have seen nothing in my own experience with an affair and many OW, and nothing on LS to disprove it. The only exception to this, it seems, is if the OW has autism or an anti-social personality disorder where they find it difficult or even impossible to feel compassion.

 

So, you are saying that anyone who differs with you, or has had a different experience is either autisic or has a personality disorder? Wow

[fascinated]

I can see your point, that perhaps an OW or OM doesn't really feel they deserve the full-time R so they put themselves in that position. On the other hand, some might think that the OW or OM has excessive self-worth by being greedy enough to steal those moments from another.

 

What about cake eaters? Is their self esteem so low that they're sabotaging their primary R with an A, or is their self esteem so high that they think they are worth more than one partner? I wonder what a therapist's take on this would be. Does the narcissistic personality have underlying low self esteem or inflated sense of self worth?

[woinlove]

I can see your point, that perhaps an OW or OM doesn't really feel they deserve the full-time R so they put themselves in that position. On the other hand, some might think that the OW or OM has excessive self-worth by being greedy enough to steal those moments from another.

 

What about cake eaters? Is their self esteem so low that they're sabotaging their primary R with an A, or is their self esteem so high that they think they are worth more than one partner? I wonder what a therapist's take on this would be. Does the narcissistic personality have underlying low self esteem or inflated sense of self worth?

 

It often seems to be compensatory. However great they seem to think they are, it doesn't seem like enough to make them feel really good about themselves. Some may choose to string multiple partners along in an attempt for validation.

 

I think people with high self-esteem and an ability to really love are not likely to choose a life based on deceiving those they claim to love or to support someone they love in behaving in that way.

[Rooke]

It often seems to be compensatory. However great they seem to think they are, it doesn't seem like enough to make them feel really good about themselves. Some may choose to string multiple partners along in an attempt for validation.

 

I think people with high self-esteem and an ability to really love are not likely to choose a life based on deceiving those they claim to love or to support someone they love in behaving in that way.

 

Exactly. That was exactly my point. I obviously didn't articulate it as well as you have.

[jsb58]

My wife thought she had great self esteem when she had her EA. She later said the hardest thing for her to realize was that if she had had good self esteem, she wouldn't have gotten involved with an unavailable man from the beginning.

 

It's hard for people to admit their shortcomings. Good on you Rooke, for your introspection. I wish you well along your journey to self awareness.

Edited June 5, 2011 by jsb58
Grammar

[betterdeal]

Why did you join a relationship forum? Most people for whom things are going swimmingly don't seem to feel the need.

[Rooke]

Everyone seems to be missing my point.

If you're happy being the OW/OM then that's okay.

If the WS leaves for you and keeps promises then that's okay.

My post was aimed for people who are not happy in the situation but hang on believing promises that will never come to fruition, like I did.

What I was trying to say was if you're sat at home thinking "when will he call?" "when will he leave?" or being repeatedly stood up and let down etc then it's time for a change.

I thought it went without saying that if people are postin here and are not happy then maybe it's time for some introspection.

If anyone is happy in their situation then clearly this post does not apply to them.

[woinlove]

I have great self esteem. My Mom says I was just born very confident . Me being involved in an EA works out for me right now.

 

Not saying I would never want more out of this situation but for now it works out great. I have a lot of other things that I want to concentrate on. So part time is good for me at this point and it has nothing to do with self esteem !

 

Sorry for the possible tj, but being honest with oneself is relevant to the topic of this thread....

 

In the thread you started you say you are forcing yourself not to have sex with MM, arguing that no sex means one is more likely to get the M out of MM. Now you say EA with MM works for you right now. ??? One is a long term goal where you have to force yourself now, while the other is getting your needs and desires met right now. Which is it?

[veryconfuzed]

I think it's important for anyone in an A to start concentrating on their self esteem.

If you are a confident, centred person who doesn't look to others for validation then it wouldn't even be in your radar to accept being second best, being a tiny part if you MM/MW life wouldn't be acceptable to you.

Create an 'Absolute No' list, a list in which you will no longer behave in ways that would be detrimental to you so you can put yourself first. It doesn't have to be related to an A but on my list is "I will no longer invest time in relationships that I know in my heart have no future"

Being second best isn't a nice feeling, it isn't self esteem building or an encouraging situation.

Why are you compromising who you are for a tiny slice of the pie?

Breaking it off may be painful, but so much less painful than waiting for D day and realising you've lost and you'll always lose.

Also, think about the karma you're sending out into the world, how would you feel if you found out your husband or wife was doing this to you?

A few hours of pleasure isn't worth the pain it'll cause.

It's about asking yourself "How have I allowed myself to get into this situation?"

Yes the WS will end up hurting their BS but it doesn't have to you who's responsible for causing the hurt.

If you love yourself enough, then don't "settle" for what's not right.

 

Rooke, you are right on with this. Integrity is a big part of having good self-esteem. Being an OW was tearing down my self-esteem because I was violating my personal integrity. In other words, my values and actions were out of alignment. It is my worst nightmare to be cheated on, yet by being an OW I was enabling him to cheat on someone. Not only that, but I was allowing myself to be a secondary relationship when I knew I deserved better than that. These things are nearly impossible to recognize when you're caught up in an A.

[jsb58]

I have great self esteem. My Mom says I was just born very confident . Me being involved in an EA works out for me right now.

 

Not saying I would never want more out of this situation but for now it works out great. I have a lot of other things that I want to concentrate on. So part time is good for me at this point and it has nothing to do with self esteem !

you are confusing selfishness with self esteem.

[veryconfuzed]

My wife thought she had great self esteem when she had her EA. She later said the hardest thing for her to realize was that if she had had good self esteem, she wouldn't have gotten involved with an unavailable man from the beginning.

 

They say that low self-esteem people tend to pair-up, high self-esteem people tend to get together, and moderate self-esteem people get together (opposites attract doesn't seem to apply when it comes to self-esteem). Someone who is married and willing to cheat probably does not have great self-esteem, and will attract low self-esteem partners. They say the most disastrous relationships are between two people with low self-esteem. (for more on this see book : The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem)

[IzzyB]

Rooke, it sounds like you are making progress in your recovery from a very difficult experience and I commend you for that. However, perhaps you may want to post things about yourself at this point, instead of attempting to teach others what to do and how to get over "their" issues. What i mean is, you are so new at this and just standing on your feet again, it seems a tad early for you to be instructing others on how to get over their low self esteem and affair issues when you are so early in recovery. To me it seems like a neophyte swimmer who just learned how to float, trying to teach others how to swim. No disrespect intended, really. I just think that posting about yourself and what YOU are learning would be far more effective and honest. I noticed you did this in your last post as well. I do think that you will find yourself recovering even more quickly if you take responsibility for yourself, discuss things about yourself, and refrain from attempting to teach everyone else, until you get some more time under your belt. Also, are you in IC at all? Because developing self esteem takes a ton of work and guidance, much more than from reading and thinking about it by yourself. There are too many pitfalls in doing this without an objective compassionate person to guide you. Good luck to you and I wish you only the best in your journey.

 

 

 

I think it's important for anyone in an A to start concentrating on their self esteem.

If you are a confident, centred person who doesn't look to others for validation then it wouldn't even be in your radar to accept being second best, being a tiny part if you MM/MW life wouldn't be acceptable to you.

Create an 'Absolute No' list, a list in which you will no longer behave in ways that would be detrimental to you so you can put yourself first. It doesn't have to be related to an A but on my list is "I will no longer invest time in relationships that I know in my heart have no future"

Being second best isn't a nice feeling, it isn't self esteem building or an encouraging situation.

Why are you compromising who you are for a tiny slice of the pie?

Breaking it off may be painful, but so much less painful than waiting for D day and realising you've lost and you'll always lose.

Also, think about the karma you're sending out into the world, how would you feel if you found out your husband or wife was doing this to you?

A few hours of pleasure isn't worth the pain it'll cause.

It's about asking yourself "How have I allowed myself to get into this situation?"

Yes the WS will end up hurting their BS but it doesn't have to you who's responsible for causing the hurt.

If you love yourself enough, then don't "settle" for what's not right.

[donnamaybe]

Sorry for the possible tj, but being honest with oneself is relevant to the topic of this thread....

 

In the thread you started you say you are forcing yourself not to have sex with MM, arguing that no sex means one is more likely to get the M out of MM. Now you say EA with MM works for you right now. ??? One is a long term goal where you have to force yourself now, while the other is getting your needs and desires met right now. Which is it?

 

Perhaps the stated wants and needs change depending on the topic of the thread

[woinlove]

Rooke, it sounds like you are making progress in your recovery from a very difficult experience and I commend you for that. However, perhaps you may want to post things about yourself at this point, instead of attempting to teach others what to do and how to get over "their" issues. What i mean is, you are so new at this and just standing on your feet again, it seems a tad early for you to be instructing others on how to get over their low self esteem and affair issues when you are so early in recovery. To me it seems like a neophyte swimmer who just learned how to float, trying to teach others how to swim. No disrespect intended, really. I just think that posting about yourself and what YOU are learning would be far more effective and honest. I noticed you did this in your last post as well. I do think that you will find yourself recovering even more quickly if you take responsibility for yourself, discuss things about yourself, and refrain from attempting to teach everyone else, until you get some more time under your belt. Also, are you in IC at all? Because developing self esteem takes a ton of work and guidance, much more than from reading and thinking about it by yourself. There are too many pitfalls in doing this without an objective compassionate person to guide you. Good luck to you and I wish you only the best in your journey.

 

I just took this as Rooke expressing her opinion on an A-relevant topic that she has been thinking about in the context of her situation and it seems most posters took it that way, expressing their own opinions on the topic. Even if she isn't as far along as you, discussing topics like this may help her (and us) learn more too.

 

In any case, what is not honest about Rooke's post?

[Rooke]

I am not "teaching" or "preaching" or "instructing" others at all. I am simply sharing my advice and discoveries, everyone has their own path to follow and all I am doing is sharing mine in the hope that if people are in the depths of despair, like I was, they can find some positivity in my words.

Like I did from others when I first came.

I have to say your post has really offended me because you are advising me against instructing others (in your opinion) and yet you're telling me how far along I am on my journey when you don't even know me and instructing me as to what I should and shouldn't be sharing.

I have actually completed my journey and this situation was actually something I was in for two years so by no means is it new to me. D day was only 2 months ago yes but I can say in all honesty I am free of him.

Yes it's taken counselling sessions, self help books, writing journals and alot of soul searching and introspection but I think I am in an excellent position to be offering hope to people who feel they may never come out the other side.

Because I am proof it is possible.

[nothingbutblueskies]

As a quasi-current OM (we havent seen each other since I last ended things, but still keep in daily contact through various mediums) I've come to realize that abysmal self-esteem is one of the main things drove me into this situation. Ok, that may be overstating it, allowed me to let myself into this situation. It's definitely the thing keeping me in it, without a doubt.

 

MW told me about an argument she had with H the other day where he used a quickfire insult to win it (you know, one of those insults thrown about in anger that you know beyond a shadow of a doubt cuts someone to the bone) which enraged me. I mean I was physically ready to break something. Instead, I turned to metal music (lol) and copious amounts exercise. I've hiked 9 miles or so this week and have ran 6. I feel so much better about myself and I don't feel as needy for her attention because I am giving myself some much deserved attention.

 

She says she doesn't want to lose me. Well... I'm slipping away from you sweetheart and I'm really starting to not give a **** whether you come with me or not.