Recognising Self Esteem Issues

[jsb58]

It is common for some who overcompensate for their vast insecurities to come off as overly confident. Forgiving my limited knowledge of the players here but when a person has a healthy self esteem, they do not need the level of attention and validation that I am reading from some of the more confident on the forum.

 

I am unable to edit. I intended to add that this is what I have observed as a whole, not necessarily this specific forum.

[waytogo]

It is common for some who overcompensate for their vast insecurities to come off as overly confident. Forgiving my limited knowledge of the players here but when a person has a healthy self esteem, they do not need the level of attention and validation that I am reading from some of the more confident on the forum.

 

From what I've seen of 'players', they fall into the same category as attempting to come off as overly confident. I have never met a truly happy, confident person who felt the need to deliberately con and hurt others. The disregard they show others would seem to be a reflection of how they feel about themselves.

 

People who are often seen as great by many (and really are) will more likely say everyone gives them too much credit. Some will tell everyone that will listen 'I'm really great', yet they are the only one's saying so

[BB07]

I think some times when we think of someone lacking self esteem, we picture a little mouse cowering in the corner. That picture isn't necessarily true at all because lack of self esteem is not always visible from the outside looking in. In my former career (customer service) I was confident and I doubt that my coworkers would have said I was lacking in esteem. My lack of self esteem has affected me in my personal relationships, very little in my career or friendships.

 

My point is it's not something always visible to to the outside world.

[MissBee]

I think some times when we think of someone lacking self esteem, we picture a little mouse cowering in the corner. That picture isn't necessarily true at all because lack of self esteem is not always visible from the outside looking in. In my former career (customer service) I was confident and I doubt that my coworkers would have said I was lacking in esteem. My lack of self esteem has affected me in my personal relationships, very little in my career or friendships.

 

My point is it's not something always visible to to the outside world.

 

Cosign...

 

And many confident, independent, strong women will tell you that it is when they get involved romantically that they don't even recognize themselves sometimes, as romantic relationships have a way of pushing your buttons and exposing your vulnerabilities and are great mirrors and change agents for you to see yourself as you are and not as you pretend to be.

[Rooke]

I think it's not always visible to yourself either as many posters have shrewdly pointed out.

My self esteem has always been up and down, however during an 'off' period in the A I got involved with a co worker and after a few dates and a few nights spent together he told me he didn't find me attractive and that put me at rock bottom for a very long time.

When I was in the A I thought I didn't have a choice because I loved him and that meant hurting other people was a means to an end.

And it was only when I recovered my self esteem I realise I do have a choice, I'm not an animal and if I know someone is involved I should be strong enough and moral enough to control myself.

I was selfish in a terrible way, when I should have been selfish in a good way by thinking 'What am I going to get out of this situation, only hurt and anguish? No thanks'

If my self esteem had been higher, I would've thought I'll wait for what I deserve, where as when I was in the A I thought this is all I can get.

And as another poster said, why would I want to encourage someone to lie, cheat, deceive and hurt another human being? All because I wanted, needed to feel validated.

But the only person who can validate me, is me. I'm only the only person who truly knows me.

[MissBee]

I think it's not always visible to yourself either as many posters have shrewdly pointed out.

My self esteem has always been up and down, however during an 'off' period in the A I got involved with a co worker and after a few dates and a few nights spent together he told me he didn't find me attractive and that put me at rock bottom for a very long time.

When I was in the A I thought I didn't have a choice because I loved him and that meant hurting other people was a means to an end.

And it was only when I recovered my self esteem I realise I do have a choice, I'm not an animal and if I know someone is involved I should be strong enough and moral enough to control myself.

I was selfish in a terrible way, when I should have been selfish in a good way by thinking 'What am I going to get out of this situation, only hurt and anguish? No thanks'

If my self esteem had been higher, I would've thought I'll wait for what I deserve, where as when I was in the A I thought this is all I can get.

And as another poster said, why would I want to encourage someone to lie, cheat, deceive and hurt another human being? All because I wanted, needed to feel validated.

But the only person who can validate me, is me. I'm only the only person who truly knows me.

 

I can so relate....and at the time I didn't see the correlation between that and self esteem. I thought it was about misunderstanding, love, being so unfortunate as to meet my soulmate while he is with someone else, it's about complications, I had no choice but to pursue my love and the list continues....but never did I think about what it really was but you explained it beautifully.

[Silly_Girl]

For me, I was loving life - every second of it - and had re-found myself. Things were rosy. Better than they had been in ages. So this friendship was a lovely enhancement to my life. I never ever imagined how things would progress but I've never had a LDR before and would never choose it (I find it a hassle). He's a totally different physique, nature, and background to anyone I've ever felt proper feelings for before.

 

If anything I'd say I was less guarded than I'd been previously. It wasn't a gap-filling thing, or a validation thing. It was more a case of just not looking where I was going.... And I'm so glad that was the case. Really, I do feel very lucky.

[fascinated]

I am actually looking forward to my next counseling session to discuss this issue! Thanks to those who have posted such wisdom from their journeys. Sometimes this helps more than the counseling, but in tandem hopefully I can gain more self-awareness and eventually wisdom.

[Rooke]

I am actually looking forward to my next counseling session to discuss this issue! Thanks to those who have posted such wisdom from their journeys. Sometimes this helps more than the counseling, but in tandem hopefully I can gain more self-awareness and eventually wisdom.

 

That's fantastic. My Counsellor was so helpful with this issue. She recommended a book called the 'Art of Extreme Self Care' by Cheryl Richardson, I found some of it irrelevant but the parts that were relevant were really relevant, and it's about making tiny changes that have huge impacts and putting yourself first whenever and however you can.

Let us know what your Counsellors opinions are please!

[pureinheart]

Available is as available does. Not all MMs are unavailable. And some strong, stable, confident and independent single women require a level of availability best matched by an A.

 

Just because someone's own experience may have been that they were broken when they had an A does not mean that everyone who has an A is broken. Only a narcissist could assume that their experience was universal without at least considering the possibility that perhaps they lacked the grounds to make that kind of assumption.

 

I think the general overall tone is that if a person has been in an A, or is in one, well they must be flawed.

 

I sincerely believe that this type of thinking will breed and create a low self esteem, especially in those that are impressionable. It's like planting the seed in someones mind that because you did x,y, and z you are now deemed unacceptable. It is nothing but condemnation IMO.

 

We all have done things that run in the opposite direction concerning ones moral compass, and to conclude that a person is uncaring or any other derogatory phrase or word because of that is more damaging that the act considered as the unforgivable sin.

 

You are very correct OWoman, is it universal that all BS's are like the one I dealt with? Or you? Of course not.

 

I really hope none of the ladies and gentlemen in this forum give all of their power away, allowing any R to define them.

[MissBee]

I think the general overall tone is that if a person has been in an A, or is in one, well they must be flawed.

 

I sincerely believe that this type of thinking will breed and create a low self esteem, especially in those that are impressionable. It's like planting the seed in someones mind that because you did x,y, and z you are now deemed unacceptable. It is nothing but condemnation IMO.

 

We all have done things that run in the opposite direction concerning ones moral compass, and to conclude that a person is uncaring or any other derogatory phrase or word because of that is more damaging that the act considered as the unforgivable sin.

 

You are very correct OWoman, is it universal that all BS's are like the one I dealt with? Or you? Of course not.

 

I really hope none of the ladies and gentlemen in this forum give all of their power away, allowing any R to define them.

 

I would say yes...but that being flawed is really what being human is about. You don't choose the family and life you're born into and the influences you have, positive or negative, and as a result ALL of us end up having effed up viewpoints, perform effed up actions etc. Look at the world....if we weren't flawed then this wouldn't even be a discussion.

 

I think though that life is about growth and working through your flaws and aspiring towards greater levels of wholeness. Will you ever be perfect? Probably not.

 

For me personally, although I'll come on forums and dialogue and even debate I don't really expect to convince anyone who sees nothing wrong with affairs that something is wrong with it or that it points to some type of deficit. I will always assert that there is and that gathering thousands of case studies would probably prove it to be so...but I also live by the idea that "I'm conservative for myself and liberal for the rest of the world".

 

I've seen forums and programs where people practice zoophilia and pedophilia and intellectualize the hellll out of it and insist that it's simply a different life choice...nothing is wrong with it...nothing is wrong with them ...people are close minded and the list continues...what can I say? Nothing.

 

It would come back down to the philosophical argument about whether there is an objective right and wrong or is everything relative where we all can do whatever we want so long as it is fine in our minds or some people agree with us....

 

Is there some type of supreme code that ALL actions can be subjected to to determine if they are right, wrong or flawed? I think so....but it also could be argued that well everything is relative, it just depends on your society and so on. Where does that leave us? With people doing whatever they want and finding justifications for it....

 

Herein lies the beauty and curse of human society.

[Silly_Girl]

I think the general overall tone is that if a person has been in an A, or is in one, well they must be flawed.

 

I sincerely believe that this type of thinking will breed and create a low self esteem, especially in those that are impressionable. It's like planting the seed in someones mind that because you did x,y, and z you are now deemed unacceptable. It is nothing but condemnation IMO.

 

We all have done things that run in the opposite direction concerning ones moral compass, and to conclude that a person is uncaring or any other derogatory phrase or word because of that is more damaging that the act considered as the unforgivable sin.

 

I agree. And I too worry that it's self-perpetuating. I wonder what other situations we could find ourselves in that would have a similar result on the same people. I've not yet thought of any. But I will ponder further because it interests me

[Rooke]

I don't think the general overall tone is that if someone has been in an A that they are flawed, as MissBee says the tone is more about making mistakes and wanting to created a positive future with someone who is equal, an A situation means the balance is rarely equal.

In my opinion, I've learned it is not right to willingly hurt other people and hurt yourself in an A, and I agree with MissBee that whatever the situation there will always be a justification.

It's about compassion and empathy, the hardest thing I had to do was put the shoe on my foot, how would I feel if my H did this to me? Devastated, heartbroken, angry, and the list could be infinite.

I made a choice that I never want to be responsible for making someone else feel that way because I wholeheartedly believe what goes around comes around.

I've said before if a woman is happy to be the other woman then that's okay, but my personal choice was that it was not ok for me, because I was directly responsible for someone elses pain.

I've never thought I was flawed, I thought I made a huge mistake and made bad choices, but I can't speak for anyone else.

I just can't see that there could be any justification for willingly hurting someone else, I've never appreciated being hurt un necessarily and I never will, and I doubt anyone else would either.

[MissBee]

I don't think the general overall tone is that if someone has been in an A that they are flawed, as MissBee says the tone is more about making mistakes and wanting to created a positive future with someone who is equal, an A situation means the balance is rarely equal.

In my opinion, I've learned it is not right to willingly hurt other people and hurt yourself in an A, and I agree with MissBee that whatever the situation there will always be a justification.

It's about compassion and empathy, the hardest thing I had to do was put the shoe on my foot, how would I feel if my H did this to me? Devastated, heartbroken, angry, and the list could be infinite.

I made a choice that I never want to be responsible for making someone else feel that way because I wholeheartedly believe what goes around comes around.

I've said before if a woman is happy to be the other woman then that's okay, but my personal choice was that it was not ok for me, because I was directly responsible for someone elses pain.

I've never thought I was flawed, I thought I made a huge mistake and made bad choices, but I can't speak for anyone else.

I just can't see that there could be any justification for willingly hurting someone else, I've never appreciated being hurt un necessarily and I never will, and I doubt anyone else would either.

 

I think the reason I will never accept affairs as somehow a legitimate, fulfilling, healthy choice is for those reasons and the fact that one cannot be forthright about it.

 

For example, I've known people who claim polyamory and don't believe in monogamy and have seen shows (Sister Wives, love it ) where people are involved in polygamy. While these aren't my choices and I'd much rather one-to-one relationships, I at least respect that they date and marry other people who AGREE! They aren't lying about their wives to each other or doing all this extra stuff...they say "Look, this is who I am, what I believe and you have a CHOICE about being with me or not". I respect that.

 

But to say affairs are some normal variation of relationships is kind of absurd...since by the nature of it being an affair one has to withhold and SOMEONE, and sometimes multiple people, don't have a choice about it and is against their will involved in some triangle or some other polygon . Also being the child of a father who was philandering, I remember my sister and I sometimes overhearing his convos with other women and as a child you feel so confused, hurt and guilty. You don't want to tell on daddy, but you're a child, it's not your place to tell mommy, then you build up resentment for having to keep a secret you didn't ask for. Soo whatever, I could care less about whatever justification...if you have to justify the relationship you're in, something is wrong with it, point blank. If people have no choice in the matter...something is wrong with it. If you have to convince people all the time that it is unique...chances are, something is wrong with it. Overall when you have to protest too much...something is wrong. It is self-evident.

 

Just like with polyamorous people...that's a different choice that is not the norm but they own who they are and give their partners a choice. That polygamist from Sister Wives, likewise. You're authentic and allow people to choose to engage or not. Affairs/cheating...are what they are...when you cheat on a test, cheat your taxes, cheat in ANY situation what does it imply? Dishonesty and not being forthright and trying to circumvent certain responsibilities...same thing.

Edited June 6, 2011 by MissBee

[BB07]

Some posters seem to take issue with being flawed.......frankly I don't get it as I've always been flawed, imperfect, etc.. I was before I knowingly participated in an affair and I still am after. The difference now is that I'm more aware of the flaws that I have that led me to get myself into a situation where I invited a whole lotta shyte into my life............being aware and proactive will keep me outta of those kinds of things again.

 

I think this thread was started by a woman (Rooke) who is on a journey of her own and is doing a lot of self examination. We can not change what we refuse to acknowledge. For those.......that it didn't turn out bad.........maybe it's just not applicable to you.

[MissBee]

Some posters seem to take issue with being flawed.......frankly I don't get it as I've always been flawed, imperfect, etc.. I was before I knowingly participated in an affair and I still am after. The difference now is that I'm more aware of the flaws that I have that led me to get myself into a situation where I invited a whole lotta shyte into my life............being aware and proactive will keep me outta of those kinds of things again.

 

I think this thread was started by a woman (Rooke) who is on a journey of her own and is doing a lot of self examination. We can not change what we refuse to acknowledge. For those.......that it didn't turn out bad.........maybe it's just not applicable to you.

 

I share the same sentiment

[Silly_Girl]

I think this thread was started by a woman (Rooke) who is on a journey of her own and is doing a lot of self examination. We can not change what we refuse to acknowledge. For those.......that it didn't turn out bad.........maybe it's just not applicable to you.

 

Is the outcome relevant BB, to a conversation like this, do you think?

[BB07]

Is the outcome relevant BB, to a conversation like this, do you think?

 

Well you and a few others are posting in regards to how self esteem doesn't relate to your particular situation but Rooke and some of the rest of us say it did with us.

 

Rooke was put in the position of defending her post and I'm standing up with her in a show of support........saying me too. Other's (mostly those who didn't get burned) are saying that they don't have a self esteem issue and seem to be offended that some of the rest of us do. So...........if you don't have a self esteem issue maybe this thread isn't for you, (general you).

[whichwayisup]

Well, if one goes into an affair with good self esteem, eventually they're going to come out of the affair WITH self esteems issues. How many OW stories have I read, smart, strong and beautiful women who lose themselves in the midst of the affair, and realize they have insecurities and issues after the A ends?

[twinsmom]

I definitely admit to "losing myself" during my affair, but I didn't come out of it with self-esteem issues. I did come out of it with "gullibility" issues, however. But thankfully my self-esteem remained intact. I was probably one of the lucky ones, and as I've said before, I wouldn't allow myself to be in the same position ever again.

[Silly_Girl]

Well you and a few others are posting in regards to how self esteem doesn't relate to your particular situation but Rooke and some of the rest of us say it did with us.

 

Rooke was put in the position of defending her post and I'm standing up with her in a show of support........saying me too. Other's (mostly those who didn't get burned) are saying that they don't have a self esteem issue and seem to be offended that some of the rest of us do. So...........if you don't have a self esteem issue maybe this thread isn't for you, (general you).

 

This is going to sound off and isn't meant to be but I don't understand whether you answered my Q or not. But what I was thinking was, if Rooke (and you/me/anyone) is addressing behaviours and looking to shape future decisions I don't think the outcome has any bearing. For example, there were situations that came about or ways I reacted that I would never wish to repeat and it's important to me that I am self-aware in those aspects.

 

It just stood out, your comment, because it sort of plays to the cliché of sour grapes, and I don't think that's necessarily the case at all.

[SoMovinOn]

If you are a confident, centred person who doesn't look to others for validation then it wouldn't even be in your radar to accept being second best, being a tiny part if you MM/MW life wouldn't be acceptable to you.

 

I don't agree with this.

 

Life isn't a competition. Relationships aren't a competition. There isn't a first place, second place....

 

Sometimes an A is because of other circumstances. If you need to play the "second best" game, it's the BS who fills the second best slot.

[carrie999]

No, I'm saying that it seems to me that an OW who doesn't feel any compassion for the BS or any hurt themselves has either autism (I wonder if you can tell the difference?) or an anti-social personality disorder.

 

Can you? Clearly not, given your complete and utter lack of understanding of either disorder.

[OWoman]

Some posters seem to take issue with being flawed.......frankly I don't get it as I've always been flawed, imperfect, etc.. I was before I knowingly participated in an affair and I still am after. The difference now is that I'm more aware of the flaws that I have that led me to get myself into a situation where I invited a whole lotta shyte into my life............being aware and proactive will keep me outta of those kinds of things again.

 

I think this thread was started by a woman (Rooke) who is on a journey of her own and is doing a lot of self examination. We can not change what we refuse to acknowledge. For those.......that it didn't turn out bad.........maybe it's just not applicable to you.

 

I can't speak for others, but speaking for myself - it wasn't that I object to having shortcomings. I live with myself, and I know my shortcomings all too well, and I've never denied those. What I took issue with was a post from a fOW who decided, on the basis of her own self-diagnosis, that HER OWN flaws MUST not only be present in all other OWs, but HAVE to be the reason for them choosing to be OWs in the first place. Since I know myself far better than some internet persona who has never met me, knows nothing about me aside from anything I have chosen to post here, and who lacks any kind of professional training or authority to make any kind of diagnosis, I felt compelled to voice my disagreement with her assumptions-passed-off-as-fact. Her diagnosis may very well apply to herself - I have no issue with people ascribing causality to their own behaviours based on whatever attributes they choose; they know themselves and live with themselves, and if it resonates for them, great. But I do take issue when someone decides that because it works for them, it must NECESSARILY work for everyone else - including (and, as per her later post since deleted) ESPECIALLY for me. She had no right and no basis for that "diagnosis", and so I objected to it - as is my right.

 

Self-knowledge and self-awareness is a wonderful thing. I know that becoming aware of how I function and what my strengths and weaknesses are has helped me enormously, in my professional and personal lives. I have screeds of reports from all manner of such activities I have participated in over the years - as a leader, a colleague, a team member, an individual, a parent, a counsellor and a learner. I know that some of the revelations have resonated affirmingly and others have been more difficult to admit to, but all have helped me understand myself better and all have been invaluable in enabling me to live my life as authentically as possible, to function as effectively as possible and to relate to others as honestly and directly as I can, and I have never shied away from increasing my self-knowledge in the same way that I continue to increase my knowledge in all other areas. So I applaud anyone else who does so, too.

[woinlove]

I don't agree with this.

 

Life isn't a competition. Relationships aren't a competition. There isn't a first place, second place....

 

Sometimes an A is because of other circumstances. If you need to play the "second best" game, it's the BS who fills the second best slot.

 

How so? The BS is being deceived, so she/he is being treated terribly, but second best in what way? Since the BS is led to believe they have something they don't, they don't really know what they are accepting.

 

If after d-day, the WS is open about wanting both, marriage with BS and an A, and the BS accepts that - then the BS may have low self-esteem if they settle for the shared arrangement when they really want something else. But I don't think that is too common - if the A and M continue after d-day, the WS is often still lying to the BS.